How to "pulse" orals

nightfly71 said:
4-AD converts to testosterone, which in turn suppresses natural production, since it's still coming from an outside source.
Click to expand...

ah, I wouldn't call that helping to maintain test levels the way I see it then. thats like saying injecting test ethan helps you maintain it..... it doesn't help you maintain it it just replaces it.

Makes sense tho in terms of effect.
 
EasyEJL said:
ah, I wouldn't call that helping to maintain test levels the way I see it then. thats like saying injecting test ethan helps you maintain it..... it doesn't help you maintain it it just replaces it.

Makes sense tho in terms of effect.
Click to expand...

It's a matter of semantics. It does increase test. levels in your body.. However, it shuts off your body's own production of test. That's the definition of suppression.

In other words, taking 4-AD doesn't remove test. from your body. It adds it from an outside source, thereby telling your body to stop making it, entirely...until you come off cycle and do PCT.

If things like 4-AD, etc. weren't suppressive, there'd be no need for PCT. PCT reverses suppression by jump starting your body's own test production, which is nil when you're just coming off cycle.
 
I've got what I feel is probably a real stupid question, but I've read about 40 threads on pulsing and I still don't get it:

I see many people say they're doing a 3 day pulse on WO days, say MWF.

Is this to say that the only days of the week they are lifting is MWF? How the hell are they able to deal with only lifting 3 freaking days a week???

Is it possible for one run a pulse cycle where they lift M thru F, yet only dose on MWF??

I'd go crazy having to stay out of the gym for over half the days in the week.
 
Viking22 said:
I've got what I feel is probably a real stupid question, but I've read about 40 threads on pulsing and I still don't get it:

I see many people say they're doing a 3 day pulse on WO days, say MWF.

Is this to say that the only days of the week they are lifting is MWF? How the hell are they able to deal with only lifting 3 freaking days a week???

Is it possible for one run a pulse cycle where they lift M thru F, yet only dose on MWF??

I'd go crazy having to stay out of the gym for over half the days in the week.
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought about doing that. Using on Chest, Back and Leg day. I adapted my lifting schedule to 4 days a week last time and will use DC training this time around. 3 days a week for it.

But yes u could do that.
 
A three day per week workout schedule would allow for maximum recovery and also head off overtraining. A lot of guys have fallen for the "more is better" idea. With weight training, that's not the case.
 
Here is a MWF routine some people I know are using. So far they really like it. Key to it is go as heady as you can...

Monday
Back
Lat Pull-downs 2X4 to 6
"V"-Bar Pull-downs 2X4 to 6
Dumbbell Rows 2X4 to 6
Biceps
Alternating Dumbbell Curls 2X4 to 6
Straight Bar Curls 2X4 to 6
Forearms
Barbell Wrist Curls 1X8 to 10
Dumbbell Wrist Curls 1X8 to 10

Wednesday
Chest
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3X4 to 6
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 2X4 to 6
Dips 1X4 to 6
Shoulders
Military Barbell Press (in front) 2X4 to 6
Standing Side Lateral Dumbbell Raises 2X6 to 8
Triceps
Lying Tricep Extensions 2X4 to 6
Cable Push-downs 2X4 to 6

Friday
Legs
Squats 3X4 to 6
Leg Press 2X4 to 6
Stiff Leg Deadlift 2X6
Calves
Standing Machine Calf Raises 2X6 to 8
45° Leg Press Calf Raises 1X6 to 8
Abs
Cable Rope Crunches 2X10 to 12
Incline Crunches (weighted) 2X8 to 10
 
nightfly71 said:
A three day per week workout schedule would allow for maximum recovery and also head off overtraining. A lot of guys have fallen for the "more is better" idea. With weight training, that's not the case.
Click to expand...

I dont get it. I'll bet if you posted a poll on this website as to how many days a week people lift, there wouldn't be very many people answering "3".

And unless I'm mistaken, I was under the impression that overtraining becomes less of an issue when taking these compounds. That's what you're taking them for - faster recovery - so why would one think he needed maximum time for recovery??

It takes 45 minutes, 5 days a week for me to properly hit each muscle group. If I were to shrink that to 3, I'd be in the weight room for an hour and a half each day, and that's no good either.

Maybe more isnt better past a certain point, but if over half my week was spent sitting on my ass, I wouldn't even call myself a lifter.
 
I started my pulse cycle of P-Plex and M-Drol a week and a half ago and I'm feeling pretty good with it. It took one week but the first workout a week into was a great one. My strength and endurance were both up and I felt great mentally.

I'm going to do a pulse like this

Week 1 30pp PreWO 10MDrol Post 3days per week
Week 2 30pp Pre 20Mdrol post
Week 3 30pp Pre 20Mdrol Post
Week 4 S/A
Week 5 S/A
Week 6 IGF LR3 for 5 weeks, 3 days per week 40 bi-lat

I had originally planned on doing 8 weeks of the pulse with a week off after 4 and then back into it but now Ill just continue the pulse for 4 weeks after the IGF and then take a break. So in all I'm looking at 14 weeks.

Might throw some Clen in towards the end to shed some fat. I want to wait until the midway point to determine how I'm doing first. I'm on the Lean Mass Diet currently.
 
Viking22 said:
And unless I'm mistaken, I was under the impression that overtraining becomes less of an issue when taking these compounds. That's what you're taking them for - faster recovery - so why would one think he needed maximum time for recovery??
Click to expand...


Steroids allow for faster muscle recovery, but The CNS can still become fatigued. A fatigued CNS is overtraining. This is a common mistake people make.
Just because your muscles have recovered doesn't mean your CNS has recovered. The CNS takes a much longer time to recover from heavy lifting than muscles do. It takes allot more punishment to break the CNS down so it can take a thrashing for a long time before its totally depleted, but when it is.....your F&^ed
 
zpnq said:
Steroids allow for faster muscle recovery, but The CNS can still become fatigued. A fatigued CNS is overtraining. This is a common mistake people make.
Just because your muscles have recovered doesn't mean your CNS has recovered. The CNS takes a much longer time to recover from heavy lifting than muscles do. It takes allot more punishment to break the CNS down so it can take a thrashing for a long time before its totally depleted, but when it is.....your F&^ed
Click to expand...

Mike Mentzer trained Dorian Yates to win the Mr. O. Hitting each muscle group just one time per week. Yates was certainly juicing at the time, but Mentzer still had him recovering fully between workouts. I'd call Dorian Yates a lifter, despite his workout schedule.

For those who believe you should overtrain while on cycle, I'd suggest reading up on Mike Mentzer's theories. He was one of the most insightful minds in bodybuilding.
 
nightfly71 said:
Mike Mentzer trained Dorian Yates to win the Mr. O. Hitting each muscle group just one time per week. Yates was certainly juicing at the time, but Mentzer still had him recovering fully between workouts. I'd call Dorian Yates a lifter, despite his workout schedule.

For those who believe you should overtrain while on cycle, I'd suggest reading up on Mike Mentzer's theories. He was one of the most insightful minds in bodybuilding.
Click to expand...

Yeah the "Heavy Duty" of "Blood and Guts" training philosophy is more than most people can handle. But it is hard to argur with the results
 
three days a week is a great way to train.

Especially if you're on one of those "my goal is to get continuously stronger on all the basic lifts every damn time" kind of routines.
 
I didn't mean to hijack the thread, if I did, by getting sidetracked w/ the training frequency sidebar. To update on the progress w/ my current pulse, I'm up about 11 lbs. about approx. 3.5 weeks in.

I was planning to do just 6 weeks, but may stretch it out to 8. Right now I'm doing 3 doses a week of 10 mg. of Ergomax LMG and 10 mg. of Oxodrol Pro by IDS, which is a clone of Epistane/epithio, etc.

I'll run out of the Ergomax by the end of week 6, so I'm considering continuing on w/ another 2 weeks at possibly 20 mg. of the epi clone. I MAY go ahead and bump up to 20 mg. now, since it's a pulse and thus not an every day dose. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.
 
nightfly71 said:
Mike Mentzer trained Dorian Yates to win the Mr. O. Hitting each muscle group just one time per week. Yates was certainly juicing at the time, but Mentzer still had him recovering fully between workouts. I'd call Dorian Yates a lifter, despite his workout schedule.

For those who believe you should overtrain while on cycle, I'd suggest reading up on Mike Mentzer's theories. He was one of the most insightful minds in bodybuilding.
Click to expand...

I am not sure why you are quoting me, i am saying overtraining is bad. I am correcting the misconception held by Viking22 that once the muscles are healed you are no longer at risk of over training. Overtraining is the CNS and the CNS can still be recovering long after your muscles are healed.

Yates was all ready huge and there is ALLOT of people who call BS on the whole Yates Mentzer thing, there are Pros who claim they saw Yates training in a traditional manner. Mentzers "insights" have been argued to death and they are in my opinion are based on Misinformation.



MENTZER has nothing to do with what i am talking about. Dont bring that trash talk in here :P
 
zpnq said:
I am not sure why you are quoting me, i am saying overtraining is bad. I am correcting the misconception held by Viking22 that once the muscles are healed you are no longer at risk of over training. Overtraining is the CNS and the CNS can still be recovering long after your muscles are healed.

Yates was all ready huge and there is ALLOT of people who call BS on the whole Yates Mentzer thing, there are Pros who claim they saw Yates training in a traditional manner. Mentzers "insights" have been argued to death and they are in my opinion are based on Misinformation.



MENTZER has nothing to do with what i am talking about. Dont bring that trash talk in here :P
Click to expand...

For starters, maybe you couldn't tell from the context, but I was actually underscoring your point, not taking issue w/ it. But speaking of taking issue w/ things, no one is 100% right all the time, but I'll credit Mentzer for being a better trainer than "ALLOT" of ppl. calling BS on him and his training methods.

Secondly, welcome to AM, since you're new around here. Pretty strong 13th post. I think you'll find it's much less drama oriented than bb.com, since you mentioned trash talk.
 
nightfly71 said:
For starters, maybe you couldn't tell from the context, but I was actually underscoring your point, not taking issue w/ it. But speaking of taking issue w/ things, no one is 100% right all the time, but I'll credit Mentzer for being a better trainer than "ALLOT" of ppl. calling BS on him and his training methods.

Secondly, welcome to AM, since you're new around here. Pretty strong 13th post. I think you'll find it's much less drama oriented than bb.com, since you mentioned trash talk.
Click to expand...

:dance: no harm intended :o, i am a nice guy really :fool2:
 
Any sides at all? I wouldn't expect any :D if you aren't, i'd say run the 8 weeks. i wouldn't bump to 20 unless gains are slowing now, but definitely run it at 20 after the ergomax lmg runs dry.
 
EasyEJL said:
Any sides at all? I wouldn't expect any :D if you aren't, i'd say run the 8 weeks. i wouldn't bump to 20 unless gains are slowing now, but definitely run it at 20 after the ergomax lmg runs dry.
Click to expand...

Not really. No back pumps, headaches, overaggression, lethargy, general feeling of being suppressed, as hard as it is to truly know if you are.

Generally, I feel good. Strength isn't up a ton yet, but I'm really more interested in muscle mass gain than raw strength, so I'm ok w/ that as long as I'm growing.

I do have increased acne on my neck, etc, buit i don't consider that as much a side effect as a minor inconvenience. I think I'll def. increase to 20 mg. of the epi clone, since I have two boxes, so supply isn't really an issue, and it seems like a lot of guys are running it at 40 mg.

The question now is do I wait until week 7 to bump it up or do I go ahead and do it now? Thoughts, comments?
 
nightfly71 said:
I didn't mean to hijack the thread, if I did, by getting sidetracked w/ the training frequency sidebar. To update on the progress w/ my current pulse, I'm up about 11 lbs. about approx. 3.5 weeks in.

I was planning to do just 6 weeks, but may stretch it out to 8. Right now I'm doing 3 doses a week of 10 mg. of Ergomax LMG and 10 mg. of Oxodrol Pro by IDS, which is a clone of Epistane/epithio, etc.

I'll run out of the Ergomax by the end of week 6, so I'm considering continuing on w/ another 2 weeks at possibly 20 mg. of the epi clone. I MAY go ahead and bump up to 20 mg. now, since it's a pulse and thus not an every day dose. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.
Click to expand...

I may have missed this but this is ur first time pulsing or using in gerenal? That crazy 11lbs with those very modest doses. Thats great man!!
 
UNCfan1 said:
I may have missed this but this is ur first time pulsing or using in gerenal? That crazy 11lbs with those very modest doses. Thats great man!!
Click to expand...

First time pulsing, but I've run probably about 6 regular ph/ps cycles over the past 4 yrs. The only real thing I've changed would be consumer more carbs than normal.

I'm mostly clean bulking w/ the cheat here and there. The only questionable meals would be Chipotle burritos on workout days. Usually I'll work out in the morning, hit up a shake, then get some Chipotle to go.

It's a wealth of calories and macros, and I figure white rice, etc. is ok within an hr. or two of a workout. Other than that, it's been oatmeal (Sturm's packaged is the best I've found, as it contains flax and plant sterols as well as oats and cranberries or blueberries), whole grain pasta, South Beach and Kashi frozen meals, Zone and South Beach bars.

I'm trying to make a conscious effort to include quality carbs, and enough of them, in pretty much every meal.
 
nightfly71 said:
First time pulsing, but I've run probably about 6 regular ph/ps cycles over the past 4 yrs. The only real thing I've changed would be consumer more carbs than normal.

I'm mostly clean bulking w/ the cheat here and there. The only questionable meals would be Chipotle burritos on workout days. Usually I'll work out in the morning, hit up a shake, then get some Chipotle to go.

It's a wealth of calories and macros, and I figure white rice, etc. is ok within an hr. or two of a workout. Other than that, it's been oatmeal (Sturm's packaged is the best I've found, as it contains flax and plant sterols as well as oats and cranberries or blueberries), whole grain pasta, South Beach and Kashi frozen meals, Zone and South Beach bars.

I'm trying to make a conscious effort to include quality carbs, and enough of them, in pretty much every meal.
Click to expand...


Nice! Chipotle burritos damn that sounds good!!!!!!! I love Kashi foods. Well its working keep up the great work Night.
 
Thanks. On that note, I just got a call from the gf offering me to pick one up for lunch. Must've willed it to happen...lol. Another awesome food is Ezekial bread toasted and buttered w/ omega spread. Tastes like butter and loaded up w/ omega fats, sterols, etc. Good stuff.

One other note, I noticed new and bigger stretch marks on my chest today in the mirror as i was drying off. Those have def. appeared during this cycle, so that's a nice indirect sign of progress.

I'm sure some of that weight is water, but the fact that I'm stacking the epi clone w/ it, there should be some anti-estrogenic effects going on, that i would think would counterbalance the usual wetness of a compound like ergomax.

As I mentioned, this is my first pulse, but I've read that gains are much easier to maintain, so here's hoping I can keep the majority of it.
 
nightfly71 said:
Thanks. On that note, I just got a call from the gf offering me to pick one up for lunch. Must've willed it to happen...lol. Another awesome food is Ezekial bread toasted and buttered w/ omega spread. Tastes like butter and loaded up w/ omega fats, sterols, etc. Good stuff.

One other note, I noticed new and bigger stretch marks on my chest today in the mirror as i was drying off. Those have def. appeared during this cycle, so that's a nice indirect sign of progress.

I'm sure some of that weight is water, but the fact that I'm stacking the epi clone w/ it, there should be some anti-estrogenic effects going on, that i would think would counterbalance the usual wetness of a compound like ergomax.

As I mentioned, this is my first pulse, but I've read that gains are much easier to maintain, so here's hoping I can keep the majority of it.
Click to expand...

We don't have a store around here that carries Ezekial bread:sad:

I would say they are easy to maintain, mine were. Strength too.
 
UNCfan1 said:
We don't have a store around here that carries Ezekial bread:sad:

I would say they are easy to maintain, mine were. Strength too.
Click to expand...

I bet if you scour around you could find some. Most any health food store has it, as do regular grocery stores that have little health sections. Even if you had to drive a bit to get it, it'd be worthwhile, since you could just freeze a few loaves and thaw when ready for use.
 
Wood said:
I started my pulse cycle of P-Plex and M-Drol a week and a half ago and I'm feeling pretty good with it. It took one week but the first workout a week into was a great one. My strength and endurance were both up and I felt great mentally.

I'm going to do a pulse like this

Week 1 30pp PreWO 10MDrol Post 3days per week
Week 2 30pp Pre 20Mdrol post
Week 3 30pp Pre 20Mdrol Post
Week 4 S/A
Week 5 S/A
Week 6 IGF LR3 for 5 weeks, 3 days per week 40 bi-lat

I had originally planned on doing 8 weeks of the pulse with a week off after 4 and then back into it but now Ill just continue the pulse for 4 weeks after the IGF and then take a break. So in all I'm looking at 14 weeks.

Might throw some Clen in towards the end to shed some fat. I want to wait until the midway point to determine how I'm doing first. I'm on the Lean Mass Diet currently.
Click to expand...

I get more kick in work out by doing the superdrol 2 hours pre workout with lots of carbs than I get from PP pre workout. It loads the muscles up with carbs.
 
I have been thinking about using some 11-oxo as an anticort on off days. But i am a bit weary as i think its a pro hormone its self.
(pulsing 30 mg of epi 3 times a week)

The dosage for anticort measures is 225mg a day, will that be ok or will it make suppression too much more likely? Or could i use mabey 150mg a day to still be a effective anticort and not add to suppression.

Help much appreciated.
 
i'd skip the 11-oxo on cycle, it is slightly suppressive, and at 150mg doesnt provide much cortisol control. 7-OH dhea orally or any of the normal cortisol control products like retain 2 would work
 
EasyEJL said:
i'd skip the 11-oxo on cycle, it is slightly suppressive, and at 150mg doesnt provide much cortisol control. 7-OH dhea orally or any of the normal cortisol control products like retain 2 would work
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, i might save the 11-oxo and androextreme for a cycle of their own then.

Im doing a recomp atm, so i'll see how i go without any on cycle anti cort.
 
Anyone pulse Hemadrol stacked with Propadrol?

Trying to think of a cycle that I can pulse a few months from now which would give me 10+ lbs but not have any hair loss. Hair thinned from Halodrol-50, was my first cycle so it freaked me out.
 
rocknout said:
thank you. would the hyperdrol be good enough for anti cort or is it really necessary to pick up some retain?
Click to expand...

I think on a pulse an anti cortisol is less necessary. its a slower lighter cycle, so it doesn't send your body through as wild of endocrine swings as a regular cycle.
 
thanks. i think i remember reading that DHEA could be used as an anti-cort. If i used say 100mg on the off days would this be a good idea?
 
San Quinn said:
Anyone pulse Hemadrol stacked with Propadrol?

Trying to think of a cycle that I can pulse a few months from now which would give me 10+ lbs but not have any hair loss. Hair thinned from Halodrol-50, was my first cycle so it freaked me out.
Click to expand...
Isn't Hemadrol and Halodrol the same compound?

Never heard hair thinning with Halo? What was your dose? Was it pulsed?
 
marcink99 said:
ok iam confused so while pulsing superdrol 3time a week do i need to use serm or no?
Click to expand...

you should always have a serm, even if you dont use it

always have it on hand

if you pulse depending on the dose and duration you may be able to do an abbreviated PCT but you should probably use a SERM to be safe
 
nightfly71 said:
What do you guys think of working transdermal 4-AD into a pulse cylce? It'd be dosed 3X/week just like the other 2 compounds I'm using for 6 or 8 weeks.

I'm up about 7 lbs. after 3 weeks on 10 mg. each of an epi clone and Alri's Ergomax LMG. No sides at all so far in what seems to be a good wet and dry combo.

I'm thinking that incorporating 4-AD for the remainder of the pulse, but am seeking opinions. Let's hear them.
Click to expand...

Just a quick update on my pulsing progress. I'm at the end of my 6th week and am up approx. 15 lbs. I'm pretty impressed, since my waist size has stayed in check.

I ended up bumping up to 20 mg. per day of the Epi clone about 2 weeks ago and am on my last week of my 10 mg. dosage of Ergomax LMG.

The only side I've noticed is a little more thinning in the hairline, but that's happening naturally, anyway at age 36, so it may just be in my head. Hard to say for sure.

Strength increases aren't through the roof, but are pretty steady and I can tell I'm looking bigger and more solid in the mirror.

I'm eating clean bulk style, trying to be sure to get in lots of quality carbs. So far, so good w/ 2 or 3 weeks left. I'm hoping to hit the 20 lb. mark and manage to keep it.

To that end, I'm planning to run a standard PCT as if I had done a regular cycle, just to be absolutely sure that I'm fully bounced back hormonally and hold on to as much new muscle as possible.

I'm also considering maybe using something like Activate Extreme or some other well thought of test booster during that PCT period to keep gains humming along. Any thoughts on that?
 
nightfly71 said:
The only side I've noticed is a little more thinning in the hairline, but that's happening naturally, anyway at age 36, so it may just be in my head. Hard to say for sure.
Click to expand...

Try some Nizoral, 5% spiro. I used it for my Epi run. Epi is known to thin some people out
 
Back on topic...
My workout days are M,Tue,Thur, Fri.
Anyone ever PULSE on these days? Is this effective for a PULSE or are back to back days no good?
 
GotTest said:
Back on topic...
My workout days are M,Tue,Thur, Fri.
Anyone ever PULSE on these days? Is this effective for a PULSE or are back to back days no good?
Click to expand...

Thats how i did it. I talked to dr d about it and he said it is fine if you have 2 consecutive days off. It might shut you down more though
 
hman85 said:
Thats how i did it. I talked to dr d about it and he said it is fine if you have 2 consecutive days off. It might shut you down more though
Click to expand...
I'll still run full PCT, just wanted to minimize other sides like lethargy, acne, hair loss, etc.
Looking at Halo/Prop and Epi/Prop for next two cycles.
 
I have a dosage question, calling DR D :)

I am pulsing atm 40mg 3 x wk, When i take 30 before workout and 10 after i find i get a much bigger "on" feeling during my workout and i seem to push myself much harder. Will dosing like this instead of 20 then 20 affect my gains?

Any help much appreciated.
 
GotTest said:
Back on topic...
My workout days are M,Tue,Thur, Fri.
Anyone ever PULSE on these days? Is this effective for a PULSE or are back to back days no good?
Click to expand...

It should probably be fine. I had some gr8 times doing 2 days on and 2 off giving me a really significant rebound on the 2 days in between. I think it might give you a better recovery that way. For me I think 4 days of 5 "on" is to close to a proper cycle and the need for a proper PCT will increase to aid recovery after pulsing. But if thats the days you work out go with it but listen to your body and play it as safe as possible. Good luck bro!!!

Z
 
zpnq said:
I have a dosage question, calling DR D :)

I am pulsing atm 40mg 3 x wk, When i take 30 before workout and 10 after i find i get a much bigger "on" feeling during my workout and i seem to push myself much harder. Will dosing like this instead of 20 then 20 affect my gains?

Any help much appreciated.
Click to expand...


Bump to this
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top