How to "pulse" orals

[DR.D]

...i'm waiting for your next...DESIGNER SERM!!!!:box:

It's coming.

 

[DR.D]

D, what's your opinion about doing a pulse of around 6 weeks or so, and THEN switching out to a standard, non-methyl cycle ...

Makes good sense. It's basically like getting a virtually side effect free 6wk jump start.

 

[DR.D]

... I'm still in the works of setting up my first methylated cycle with the CEL H product and running it along side IForce Bold. I'm not too familiar with pulsing but it seems (I could be entirely wrong) that it would be beneficial for someone running a product such as Bold that is killer on the libido. ...

H was pretty libido neutral to me (or maybe slightly elevated), so I'd say your strategy may be effective alright. Probably synergize well in the gains department too.

Feel free to PM anytime. I promise I'll get around to it as soon as I can.

 

[EasyEJL]

Honestly, I thought it was weak. I liked the effect of the compound, but 100 was not enough on a pulse and I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable doing much more than that. 150-200 maybe, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a pulse ya know? Perhaps used in conjunction with a non-methyl it would have been more effective at 100mg, otherwise I'd guess it's probably more effective if used daily.

Also, if its truly like its relative OT, then it has a longer than usual half life (16 hrs ) which would make it less than perfect for pulsing too.

 

[DR.D]

Also, if its truly like its relative OT, then it has a longer than usual half life (16 hrs ) which would make it less than perfect for pulsing too.

The structure looks fairly resistant to metabolism, so I suspect you may have a valid point.

 

[ImJ2x]

Dr D (or anyone else):
I'm pulsing superdrol, 3 consecutive days @20mg + 100mg DHEA, followed by 4 consecutive "off" days. I'm considering adding a low-dose OTC pct product on the off days. You probably know as much about superdrol and DHEA as anyone. What product would you recommend? (I think I've seen you recommend 6-bromo before.) Thanks.

 

[Gtarzan81]

One more question for those in the know:

During the off days for my 3/x a week PP/superdrol pulse I currently have DHEA, and Diesel Test Hardcore.
I'm going to pick up either Lean Extreme, Novadex XT by Gaspari, Activate by D.S. Or Mass FX. These would be easiest cause I can get them from work.,
I'm also considering Inhibit-E by SNS.

What would be the best option for anti E/ cort blocker/(maybe test booster?) for this?

 

[Gtarzan81]

bwhahahahahaha! I just asked the same question as the guy above me. Funny!

 

[cromwell]

Thank you cromwell, always glad to freely exchange useful information.

I have seen were doses of DHEA over that of 50mg can elevate estrogen levels in 'older' men, that's why I stated 50 as the general cut-off for a starting point. In post cycle therapy however, a dosing scheme of...

wk1: 200-250
wk2: 100-150
wk3: 50-100
wk4: 0-50

... is very effective and there are many threads here and elsewhere that can testify to the libido and anti-cort benefits (and lack of suppression) with DHEA in PCT. The above doses are still somewhat conservative to be honest. I have advocated this for a long time contrary to the objections of those who have probably never tried it, and I've never experienced any estrogen related complications whatsoever. If anything, DHEA is one of the more potent androgens available as far as intrinsic androgenic activity, at least in my experience.

So no, I don't think 100mg is unreasonable at all.

Thank you sir!
The pct dosing is great info, this is what I had planned getting confirmation is a relief. I feel that dhea is def good libido booster for me, an dI ahve never had gyno from anything, if anything my estrogen levels in general are low, I know this from previous testing.
One question, for you sir or anyone else out there...I know Dr D advised against pulsing Halo (or ot basically the same thing) because it is not a fast acting compound, however, what if you pulsed it 2or 3 weeks on then2-3 off ( with a little PCT 'tween)?

 

[DR.D]

bwhahahahahaha! I just asked the same question as the guy above me. Funny!

Best AIs for test boosting are: 6-Br > ATD > Form > 6-Oxo

Best cortisol antagonists mg/mg are: AET > 7-OH > 7-Oxo > DHEA

 

[Neil5585]

Okay I didn't have time to read this entire giant thread, so I apologize if this has been answered already.

I'm interested in using this approach although my mass gaining is a little different from the usual.

It's basically overtraining like hell for 2 weeks, then 5 days completely off, then I start into a strength phase for 3 weeks, and repeat.

During the 2 weeks overtraining T levels go down the toilet, but during the recovery phase, within 3 days or so, T levels are shooting up sky high.

During the recovery phase of 5 days, calories, protein, and carbs are very high, then for the next 9 days calories remain quite high but slightly reduced, and carbs are way down. This puts on tons of quality mass without any anabolics.

So the question is, how would you best pulse with Havoc? Should you let T recover a bit in the first 3 days first, and then pulse? Should you just do 2 weeks on/2 off starting 3 days into the recovery phase? Should you start from day 1 and just go EOD with T boosters?

 

[DR.D]

...Should you let T recover a bit in the first 3 days first, and then pulse? Should you just do 2 weeks on/2 off starting 3 days into the recovery phase? Should you start from day 1 and just go EOD with T boosters?

They all sound potentially viable, but 2 ON with a test booster in the 2 OFF sounds best suited for you (especially if you train ED during the ON phase.) Otherwise, EOD dosing with a steady test booster daily may be good. Also, load up the anti-corts on your off days in the training phase at least.

 

[DR.D]

Honestly, I thought it was weak. I liked the effect of the compound, but 100 was not enough on a pulse and I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable doing much more than that. 150-200 maybe, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a pulse ya know? Perhaps used in conjunction with a non-methyl it would have been more effective at 100mg, otherwise I'd guess it's probably more effective if used daily.

Correction, the caps are 25mg, which means I was only pulsing 50, not 100. No wonder it seemed weak.

 

[nightfly71]

Correction, the caps are 25mg, which means I was only pulsing 50, not 100. No wonder it seemed weak.

I did a standard cycle of 50 mg./ed of the original batch h. I liked it a lot, but the effects took severl weeks to relly come on. For that reason, I assumed pulsing it wouldn't be ideal. I many reconsider that if you think pulsing like 100 mg or something would work well.

 

[coops]

My first post-
I'm planning on starting a pulse cycle of epistane next week.
I plan to do 2 weeks on 2 weeks off EOD, as follows-
mon -10mg
weds-20mg
fri - 30mg
sun-40mg
tues-30mg
thurs-20mg
sat-10mg
Questions -
Do i need to taper the doses down or could i just do 30mg until the end?
How long could i run a 'weeks 2 on 2 off' cycle.
I was thinking of getting some 6-oxo to stop rebound, would i really need it on a low regime that i plan? if so would i take it on off days or leave it until the end of the 2 weeks?
Any advice is appreciated.
thanks

 

[Locodio]

Hi Dr.D,

What do you think of this M-drol cycle?

W/O days (mon-wed-sat)
M-drol 10 mg, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20

OFF days (tue-thu-fri-sun)
Inhibit-E (3 caps, during the 6 weeks)
Retain 2 (3 caps, during the 6 weeks)

PCT
Nolvadex 40 mg, 20, 20, 10
6-OXO 6 caps, 4, 4, 3
Retain 2 3 caps, 3, 3, 3

Do I really need PCT in this pulsing cycle?

Is it too much? What would you change? (looking for a more effective or less expensive cycle)

Thanks a lot!

Loc

 

[EasyEJL]

Correction, the caps are 25mg, which means I was only pulsing 50, not 100. No wonder it seemed weak.

oh that explains it. at your size, 75-100mg is normal cycle dosage, so maybe 150 as a pulser. I'm still not sure if it makes sense as a pulser tho, I can't find any solid evidence on its half life. I guess if it is 16 hours its still not too bad, at least its not 36.

 

[BeastMode]

Hi Dr.D,

What do you think of this M-drol cycle?

W/O days (mon-wed-sat)
M-drol 10 mg, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20

whats you ht,wt?
looks like your underdosing SD for a pulse

Do I really need PCT in this pulsing cycle?

Highly subjective... but not a traditional PCT... some only needed a test booster for safe measure, never shut down

 

[Locodio]

whats you ht,wt?
looks like your underdosing superdrol for a pulse



Highly subjective... but not a traditional post cycle therapy... some only needed a test booster for safe measure, never shut down

Thanks

5.10 height and 170 weight.
I am 39 years old
4 years trainning. (hard gainer here...)

What dose would you recommend?

 

[BeastMode]

What dose would you recommend?

I weigh 180, In my upcomming 8 week pulse of Superdrol, dosing will go as follows:

Wk1: 10, 20, 20
Wk2: 20, 20, 30
wk3: 30, 30, 30
wk4: OFF
wk5: 10,20,20
wk6: 20,30,30
wk7: 30, 30, 40
wk8: 40, 40, 40

But if you feel as though you are starting to shut down take 2 days off to allow for the bounce, and lower the dose accordingly.

 

[DGSky]

Best AIs for test boosting are: 6-Br > ATD > Form > 6-Oxo

Best cortisol antagonists mg/mg are: AET > 7-OH > 7-Oxo > DHEA

What is AET?

 

[machinehead]

AET is B-Androstenetriol, a major ingredient in Retain 2, X-Lean, and Lean Xtreme.

 

[sfearl1]

dr. d what is your stance on using aet in post cycle? after talking to a few others i am beginning to think post cycle shouldn't include anything hormonal.

 

[Locodio]

I weigh 180, In my upcomming 8 week pulse of Superdrol, dosing will go as follows:

Wk1: 10, 20, 20
Wk2: 20, 20, 30
wk3: 30, 30, 30
wk4: OFF
wk5: 10,20,20
wk6: 20,30,30
wk7: 30, 30, 40
wk8: 40, 40, 40

But if you feel as though you are starting to shut down take 2 days off to allow for the bounce, and lower the dose accordingly.

Thanks, my friend!

 

[DR.D]

I did a standard cycle of 50 mg./ed of the original batch h. I liked it a lot, but the effects took severl weeks to relly come on. For that reason, I assumed pulsing it wouldn't be ideal. I many reconsider that if you think pulsing like 100 mg or something would work well.

It may make a difference. If I did it again, I'd probably take 100mg, all pre-w/o.

 

[DR.D]

... I was thinking of getting some 6-oxo to stop rebound, would i really need it on a low regime that i plan? if so would i take it on off days or leave it until the end of the 2 weeks? ...

Your plan looks very conservative, especially with the taper. I would not use 6-Oxo though. First of all, you just don't need it. Rebound is not an issue in this case. Second, 6-Oxo increases DHT levels so that may enhance androgenic sides.

 

[Trauma1]

It may make a difference. If I did it again, I'd probably take 100mg, all pre-w/o.

For sho brotha! I really loved halo, but i'm not totally sure it would be good pulsing. I loved it at 100mg/day, however i did not pulse it. It was a slow compound to kick in, but when it did it was quite impressive from a recomp standpoint. Getting feeback from pulsing at 100mg would be interesting to see.

 

[DR.D]

dr. d what is your stance on using aet in post cycle? after talking to a few others i am beginning to think post cycle shouldn't include anything hormonal.

Not a problem at all. This hormone is a corticoid. It has no direct affect on recovery of testosterone production, and very little if any indirect affect since it is not governed by the HPTA. AET is well suited for PCT and I would never think of doing any PCT without an anti-catabolic for at least the first 2wks. 250mg of DHEA or 450mg of adrenosterone are suitable for up to 4wks with no adverse consequences on PCT in my experience.

 

[BeastMode]

D you have a PM

 

[nightfly71]

For sho brotha! I really loved halo, but i'm not totally sure it would be good pulsing. I loved it at 100mg/day, however i did not pulse it. It was a slow compound to kick in, but when it did it was quite impressive from a recomp standpoint. Getting feeback from pulsing at 100mg would be interesting to see.

Cool, I've got a few boxes left, so I may do a 100 mg. pulse, or maybe even 150 in a couple of months, as part of a recomp stack for warm weather.

I've also considered pulsing left over m-dien and mdht. Those are generally good hardening compounds, so they might pulse nicely for a recomp.

I finished a pulse a week or so ago and am doing a standard PCT just to be cautious. After that, I'll give it another month and get some bloodwork done before embarking on the next one.

 

[Trauma1]

Cool, I've got a few boxes left, so I may do a 100 mg. pulse, or maybe even 150 in a couple of months, as part of a recomp stack for warm weather.

I've also considered pulsing left over m-dien and mdht. Those are generally good hardening compounds, so they might pulse nicely for a recomp.

I finished a pulse a week or so ago and am doing a standard post cycle therapy just to be cautious. After that, I'll give it another month and get some bloodwork done before embarking on the next one.

I still have quite a few sitting in the freezer for a later date. I almost would venture to say 150mg/day would be a better bet with pulsing, but then again i haven't tried pulsing it myself. Either way it's a great compound and that's why i stocked up on it. :thumbsup:

 

[San Quinn]

So no one has pulsed H-drol yet?

I was thinking about running a normal cycle of Propadrol in a few months and have thought about pulsing H-drol at 50mg 4 times a week pre workout for 4 weeks.

I have used Halodrol-50 before and upped it to 75mg but it also caused my hair to thin. So just thinking of other options

 

[coops]

Your plan looks very conservative, especially with the taper. I would not use 6-Oxo though. First of all, you just don't need it. Rebound is not an issue in this case. Second, 6-Oxo increases DHT levels so that may enhance androgenic sides.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. Is there no need to taper down with epistane? do you usually advocate taking every day on a 2 week on 2 week off cycle or is EOD ok?

 

[jinxy81]

A question for Dr. D or someone who can help, Im on my second week of my pulse cycle with EPISTANE

(M, W, F)

Week-Dose (mg)

1 (10, 20, 30)
2 30
3 30
4 30-40
5 30-40

Off Day Supps

AI: E-Form 3 sprays morning, 3 before bed
Anti-Cortisol: Lean Xtreme (New Version) 1 Pill AM, 1 Pill PM
Natural Test Booster: Alpha Drive XL 1 Cap 3x a day
Liver Support: Prima Force Pro Liver 3 Caps 2x daily

Question 1: I havent started taking the E-Form yet, I have only been taking the anti cort, test booster, and liver support on my off days...is this ok, or should i be taking the Formestane as well and at what dose if I should be taking it? (not taking the e-form because the Alpha Drive XL has anti estrogen properties?)

Question 2: If I can only get my workouts for the week in three consecutive days, no days off in-between, is it ok to take the Epi three days in a row?

Also im considering stretching this to at least 6 weeks, maybe 7

Thanks

 

[ImJ2x]

Question 2: If I can only get my workouts for the week in three consecutive days, no days off in-between, is it ok to take the Epi three days in a row?

Also im considering stretching this to at least 6 weeks, maybe 7

Thanks

You're talking about the "micro-cycle" idea. And the answer is yes. It's a great protocol. Workout and dose on your 3 consecutive days, then take the next 4 days off. Take your support supps and test booster everyday. Use the e-form on your off days, if you suspect shutdown. And if you're reliable (I'm not, lol), a nice log with bloodwork would be great -- I wanna see objective data.

 

[jinxy81]

How should I dose the E-Form? 5 sprays = 100mg..should I use it twice a day or once a day on my days off?

Micro Cycle, cool glad that is ok, ...so is it ok if one week is m w f , and the next week is t w th (micro cycle) ...my days i work out on constantly change.

Well I guess its too late for the blood work since I'm on the second week of my cycle....next time though...I have another bottle of EPI : )

Thanks for your response ImJ2x

 

[maynehood171]

A question for Dr. D or someone who can help, Im on my second week of my pulse cycle with EPISTANE

(M, W, F)

Week-Dose (mg)

1 (10, 20, 30)
2 30
3 30
4 30-40
5 30-40

Off Day Supps

AI: E-Form 3 sprays morning, 3 before bed
Anti-Cortisol: Lean Xtreme (New Version) 1 Pill AM, 1 Pill PM
Natural Test Booster: Alpha Drive XL 1 Cap 3x a day
Liver Support: Prima Force Pro Liver 3 Caps 2x daily

Question 1: I havent started taking the E-Form yet, I have only been taking the anti cort, test booster, and liver support on my off days...is this ok, or should i be taking the Formestane as well and at what dose if I should be taking it? (not taking the e-form because the Alpha Drive XL has anti estrogen properties?)

Question 2: If I can only get my workouts for the week in three consecutive days, no days off in-between, is it ok to take the Epi three days in a row?

Also im considering stretching this to at least 6 weeks, maybe 7

Thanks

I take it you're going to continue the trend of 30-40 for proposed weeks 6 maybe 7?

 

[jinxy81]

I take it you're going to continue the trend of 30-40 for proposed weeks 6 maybe 7?

Yes, ill see how its working out at 30 before I decide to ramp it up or not

 

[ImJ2x]

Micro Cycle, cool glad that is ok, ...so is it ok if one week is m w f , and the next week is t w th (micro cycle) ...my days i work out on constantly change.

The M,W,F thing kinda defeats the whole purpose of a micro-cycle. The key to this protocol is the 4 consecutive days off, giving your body sufficient time to recover ("bounce back") from the drug.

 

[DR.D]

...do you usually advocate taking every day on a 2 week on 2 week off cycle or is EOD ok?

With 2wks on/2wks off, ED dosing is appropriate.

 

[DR.D]

...Question 1: I havent started taking the E-Form yet, I have only been taking the anti cort, test booster, and liver support on my off days...is this ok, or should i be taking the Formestane as well and at what dose if I should be taking it? (not taking the e-form because the Alpha Drive XL has anti estrogen properties?)

Question 2: If I can only get my workouts for the week in three consecutive days, no days off in-between, is it ok...

I would take the E-form starting now at the recommended dose. It's a way better test booster than the ADXL I suspect. I just pulsed 50mg of H with daily JW (same active ingredient as ADXL, called ADED) and the shutdown was more that I had hoped for with the daily JW. Not cool.

I like 3 consecutive. 3/3 split works well.

 

[DR.D]

So no one has pulsed H-drol yet?...

Just tried it. 50 was not impressive. 100 (all pre-w/o) may have been better, or 50 may work well stacked w/ daily P like you were thinking.

 

[scott72]

sure. using superdrol as an example @ 30mg. every 14 weeks you'd be taking the same amount as if someone took 20mg daily for 3 weeks. Thats usually good for a 10+lb in gain. so maybe you'd only be gaining a little under a pound a week, but you'd avoid liver damage and cholesterol hit

Yeah but the daily takers are always "on" so to speak whereas the once a week takers are "on" once a week so I don't see how the gains would be the same. Not trying to be a smart ***, just not understanding how it would be the same as daily users or pulsers for that matter.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah but the daily takers are always "on" so to speak whereas the once a week takers are "on" once a week so I don't see how the gains would be the same. Not trying to be a smart ***, just not understanding how it would be the same as daily users or pulsers for that matter.

Well look at it this way. If you are 500 calories a day over maintenance for 5 weeks, you should gain around 5lbs right? 500x7 = 3500 cal or a pound x 5 = 5lbs. If you eat maintenance every day, but each saturday you are 500 cal over, then in 35 weeks you would gain that same 5lbs.

The daily takers aren't really always on, superdrol's halflife is only 6ish hours. so if they take 20mg a day split in 2 doses, they are only "on" for half the day anyway. Thats why testosterone cycles with long half life esters are nice, you really are on 24 hrs a day

 

[hman85]

Hey dr.d quick question for you, I have read in many forums that pheraplex may not be the best thing for pulsing because it takes a while to kick in. I have also seen many people use it with good results. What is your opinion on this compound for pulsing?

 

[coops]

With 2wks on/2wks off, ED dosing is appropriate.

Many thanks once again, will do every day. Will i need to taper down at the end?

 

[RoidGracie]

I want to try a Oxyguno pulse but I think Dr. D would say why bother, as I don't there's a lot of positive Oxy feedback out there. Anyway, I've got it so what would be a conservative run using the M W F pulse. If Dr. or others swear there is no reason to pulse it, just do the straight 4 weeks rather than a pulse of say 6 weeks, and do my PCT (PCS/ALRI Restore) I can live with that.
Any thoughts on an Oxy stand alone pulse cycle?
Much appreciated.

 

[DR.D]

Hey dr.d quick question for you, I have read in many forums that pheraplex may not be the best thing for pulsing because it takes a while to kick in. I have also seen many people use it with good results. What is your opinion on this compound for pulsing?

I would probably tend to agree that it's not the ideal candidate, but if you can tolerate higher doses of it (like 30 or more) it may work great. Just a trial and error thing that will vary from person to person, but anything over 20 would present a significant gyno risk IMO and anything less would take awhile to kick in like you said, so it's a catch22.

 

[DR.D]

Many thanks once again, will do every day. Will i need to taper down at the end?

For just a 2wk run, a taper is not very crucial, but you could take a linear step down over the last 2-3 days just to promote the smoothest possible transition. Like ....30,20,10. That wouldn't hurt anything, but it's not absolutely needed.

 

[DR.D]

I want to try a Oxyguno pulse but I think Dr. D would say why bother...

It sounds like you might know my opinion on Oxy already, lol. I tested this product long ago (with 3'rd party validation to support those results) and the data was "not encouraging". I will not get into it again, but you can look up the thread if you like.

BTW, I like the Phantasma av!