Cutting Log

[MrKleen73]

Sounds like general GH or MK bloating might be what is going on.

 

[rascal14]

I just looked it up and the first site I found explains the issue.

Aod 9604 Peptide Aod 9604 Weight Loss, Side Effects, Before And After Results

AOD 9604 is a peptide fragment derived from human growth hormone (HGH). It stands for "Anti-Obesity Drug 9604." It was initially created as a potential treatment for obesity and weight loss.

www.outlookindia.com

"The good news is that these side effects are usually mild to moderate. The most common ones include headaches, indigestion, and swelling. You might also feel pain or discomfort at the injection site, but that's normal and should go away over time. "

I definitely got the initial redness/swelling at the actual injection sites. This feels most like a GI related bloat but I just can’t think of anything that’s changed. I’m sitting here hungry, stomach growling fasted for 16 hours yet I look and feel like I ate a solid meal 2 hours ago.

 

[rascal14]

Sounds like general GH or MK bloating might be what is going on.

that’s possibly the case! It technically shouldn’t be happening, hence the amino sequence change for this specific drug to not do that, but this is all research after all. Maybe I got HGH frag actually? Who knows.

I’ve got 1.5 weeks worth left, I may just not reup on it and let it run out. I’ve never been this lean, I can save the peptides/GH for whenever I’m bulking or the beginning of the next cut so it’s not as much of a mental drag lol

 

[MrKleen73]

I definitely got the initial redness/swelling at the actual injection sites. This feels most like a GI related bloat but I just can’t think of anything that’s changed. I’m sitting here hungry, stomach growling fasted for 16 hours yet I look and feel like I ate a solid meal 2 hours ago.

Pretty crazy. The wording of that article was weird because it separated the swelling and the pain at the site comment so it seemed it my be systemic swelling to me when I read it.

that’s possibly the case! It technically shouldn’t be happening, hence the amino sequence change for this specific drug to not do that, but this is all research after all. Maybe I got HGH frag actually? Who knows.

I’ve got 1.5 weeks worth left, I may just not reup on it and let it run out. I’ve never been this lean, I can save the peptides/GH for whenever I’m bulking or the beginning of the next cut so it’s not as much of a mental drag lol

Yeah, I mean if you don't have anymore and aren't enjoying the ride plus being pretty happy with how lean you are it probably isn't worth it. I would take some shirt off progress pics the last day you take it and then wait a few days and see if there is a drop in water and take pics of the results then it will tell you if it was really worthwhile to you or not.

 

[rascal14]

Pretty crazy. The wording of that article was weird because it separated the swelling and the pain at the site comment so it seemed it my be systemic swelling to me when I read it.

Yeah, I mean if you don't have anymore and aren't enjoying the ride plus being pretty happy with how lean you are it probably isn't worth it. I would take some shirt off progress pics the last day you take it and then wait a few days and see if there is a drop in water and take pics of the results then it will tell you if it was really worthwhile to you or not.

Absolutely! I have 13 days of AOD left at the minimum dosage (300mcg in the morning) if I get the chance I may double dose it some days depending on food schedule, then there is 25 days left until November 1 which gives plenty of time for any water weight to drop if that’s what is causing it.

I got bloods done today, we will see if there is anything abnormal there but all should be fine.

I am moving my meals around a little bit, I was eating 1 large meal post workout for dinner then the protein snack before bed because if I’m hungry in the slightest at night time, I am inclined to cheat.

im breaking up that last real meal to eat a portion before weights, so I will have less food so close to bed. Especially since I’ve been waking up early to do cardio before work, I’ve really only been getting 4-5 hours of sleep a night. Couple that with finishing eating at 10pm then weighing at 4am, I may just be screwing myself with morning weigh ins and that extra hour or two of sleep may be what makes the difference in my digestion.

However, I was incredibly bloated again when I woke up this morning. I of course had anxiety issues last night so even though I had today off work I barely got any sleep again. Will just keep trucking along and see what happens!

 

[rascal14]

Another horrible night, no sleep until 4am due to just one constant panic attack, had to take my meds though I was trying hard not to.

Not sure what’s going on. Outside of my plan, but I ate two pieces of keto bread and some zero sugar jelly at like 3am. I was starving and anxious and felt sick, seemed to help even if it was just a mental thing.

never had to use this much discipline I have always just ate if I was hungry so I may just not be mentally tough enough for this lol

 

[MrKleen73]

Another horrible night, no sleep until 4am due to just one constant panic attack, had to take my meds though I was trying hard not to.

Not sure what’s going on. Outside of my plan, but I ate two pieces of keto bread and some zero sugar jelly at like 3am. I was starving and anxious and felt sick, seemed to help even if it was just a mental thing.

never had to use this much discipline I have always just ate if I was hungry so I may just not be mentally tough enough for this lol

Stop that negative talk Bro. That is weakness looking for an excuse to knock you off track. You are mentally strong enough, you proved it to get here. Now prove that little voice wrong and show it you are mentally strong enough to finish out this 3 weeks. Bloating is bloating and outside of a serious medical condition, all the stress you are dealing with could be making you hold water a bit. If that is the case it will also clear up after the stress drops which may be after the diet. Just because you are holding water does not mean you are not leaning up more. Now if you are steadily putting on more and more water then I would go try to figure out what is going on.

 

[rascal14]

Stop that negative talk Bro. That is weakness looking for an excuse to knock you off track. You are mentally strong enough, you proved it to get here. Now prove that little voice wrong and show it you are mentally strong enough to finish out this 3 weeks. Bloating is bloating and outside of a serious medical condition, all the stress you are dealing with could be making you hold water a bit. If that is the case it will also clear up after the stress drops which may be after the diet. Just because you are holding water does not mean you are not leaning up more. Now if you are steadily putting on more and more water then I would go try to figure out what is going on.

Appreciate it man! Got a decent nights sleep, took some ambien and was able to squeeze out 7 hours. Sunday morning weight was back into 188.6lbs.

Was trying to stay away from any cheat meals but new if I skipped the Sunday night programmed one I’d end up doing something bad later on so still went with it, but definitely kept it lighter than previous.

Fasted cardio again this morning, I’ll hit shoulders tonight and maybe some extra cardio to makeup for the cheat just because I’ll have the time.

gonna chalk up last weeks issues to way too much mustard at my nightly meal (psa - it may have zero calories but it doesn’t have zero side effects when you go from 0 to 100 on the serving size) and lack of sleep overall. I can control the mustard, so I will. The sleep I unfortunately can’t control but that’s just it, I can’t control it so I will try not to stress about it.

I love SNS products, but unfortunately the KannaEase just isn’t doing it for me. Tried all kinds of dosing, daily multiple times, anywhere from 2-4 caps a night. Just can’t provide the relief I need when I’m really getting anxious (I don’t know I can expect it to when it takes a benzo to do that normally) hydroxyzine at 75mg won’t do the trick, either for what it’s worth.


Lowest dose ambien BARELY knocked me out the other night after an hour of my mind fighting it falling asleep.

 

[MrKleen73]

Good to hear you got some sleep. Now what is this about mustard and bloating? I use a lot of mustard, it is my 2nd favorite condiment after hot sauce, and normally the 2 are mixed. Did you find something that pointed to the mustard, if so can you provide a link? I am curious to learn what that's about.

 

[rascal14]

Good to hear you got some sleep. Now what is this about mustard and bloating? I use a lot of mustard, it is my 2nd favorite condiment after hot sauce, and normally the 2 are mixed. Did you find something that pointed to the mustard, if so can you provide a link? I am curious to learn what that's about.

I just noticed that it was mostly after my last meal where the bloating started and I was going through bottles WAY quicker than before. I held off on a lot of mustard Saturday night, instead went light and filled the gap with zero sugar BBQ and my stomach felt better and I was not bloated the following morning.

It could just be a coincidence, but I went from hating mustard to basically drinking it within 2 weeks, slowly using more and more as the taste grew on me lol. No evidence - maybe vinegar can lead to GI problems in some people, acidity?

 

[rascal14]

Thinking ahead here for when I start adding in calories - wonder if I should be thinking of taking any kind of GDA/nutrient partitioning type supplement?

obviously they are negligible in the benefit you get when compared to AAS, but it’s a different category and I know for a fact I’m not touching insulin.

just thinking of ways to maximize those larger meals. Maybe it’s not worth it? Just do the fiber supplement and call it good? I can grab individual ingredients or just go for a comprehensive product, either way. Just want something that will be beneficiak

@Hyde you and @MrKleen73 will have good insight, I’m sure!

 

[Hyde]

Thinking ahead here for when I start adding in calories - wonder if I should be thinking of taking any kind of GDA/nutrient partitioning type supplement?

obviously they are negligible in the benefit you get when compared to AAS, but it’s a different category and I know for a fact I’m not touching insulin.

just thinking of ways to maximize those larger meals. Maybe it’s not worth it? Just do the fiber supplement and call it good? I can grab individual ingredients or just go for a comprehensive product, either way. Just want something that will be beneficiak

@Hyde you and @MrKleen73 will have good insight, I’m sure!

I think GDAs shine when food is very high, the individual is metabolically unfit, or for cheat meals. I have been using a full serving of SNS Glycophase or a 500mg cap Berberine HCL, often both, almost every day the last couple months while food and bodyfat have been so high for me.

You really have no need for one coming off a cut for day to day use - insulin sensitivity/glucose management should be as good as it gets for you, unless you were also using GH. So I would just pick up a bottle of Glycophase or another comprehensive GDA product and take that with cheat/extra large meals as damage control. One bottle will last you forever like that.

 

[rascal14]

I think GDAs shine when food is very high, the individual is metabolically unfit, or for cheat meals. I have been using a full serving of SNS Glycophase or a 500mg cap Berberine HCL, often both, almost every day the last couple months while food and bodyfat have been so high for me.

You really have no need for one coming off a cut for day to day use - insulin sensitivity/glucose management should be as good as it gets for you, unless you were also using GH. So I would just pick up a bottle of Glycophase or another comprehensive GDA product and take that with cheat/extra large meals as damage control. One bottle will last you forever like that.

good point on insulin sensitivity, I like that approach for cheat meals!

How long would you theoretically have that increase insulin sensitivity after a cut? Obviously there is no magic number or duration, but at what point do you go from this position to just a “normal insulin sensitivity level” if that makes sense?

 

[MrKleen73]

good point on insulin sensitivity, I like that approach for cheat meals!

How long would you theoretically have that increase insulin sensitivity after a cut? Obviously there is no magic number or duration, but at what point do you go from this position to just a “normal insulin sensitivity level” if that makes sense?

I would call it a bit more of a sliding target on when it becomes "regular" for you. I used to be of the opinion that. GDA was good around a cheat meal but now unless the goal is simply gaining weight I don't see it as nearly as beneficial in that scenario. A GDA is going to increase insulin sensitivity everywhere. If limiting fat gain is part of that goal I don't think they should be used for cheat meals. In that I stance I think a 10 minute walk before or after the meal is a little better solution. I would use a HSA in a surplus while eating high carbs and lower fat intake to get the most out of it without increasing fat storage as well.

 

[Resolve10]

My opinion is it is going to depend on how you react to things. They can have benefits in nearly all scenarios, depending on the context. Not all the ingredients work the same way.

Right now I personally don't use a specific or targeted GDA because my blood glucose levels all seem pretty fine and even meals in excess of 100g of carbohydrate aren't causing me issues. On top of that lots of ingredients on tangentially beneficial effects on blood glucose sometimes so those multiple ingredients may be enough in some cases (like I take Agmatine which is in some formulas as a GDA, but I am not taking it for that specifically at the moment).

I think people don't fully understand the insulin sensitivity implications (which is fine it is complicated), but really it can be hard to answer for you specifically unless you track it a bit (and don't get too neurotic) or depending on how you feel with different meals (those who eat less frequently, but larger volume per meal might see more benefit for example).

Just my viewpoint and I know it doesn't always align with others, so not saying I am right, just food for thought.

 

[Hyde]

I would call it a bit more of a sliding target on when it becomes "regular" for you. I used to be of the opinion that. GDA was good around a cheat meal but now unless the goal is simply gaining weight I don't see it as nearly as beneficial in that scenario. A GDA is going to increase insulin sensitivity everywhere. If limiting fat gain is part of that goal I don't think they should be used for cheat meals. In that I stance I think a 10 minute walk before or after the meal is a little better solution. I would use a HSA in a surplus while eating high carbs and lower fat intake to get the most out of it without increasing fat storage as well.

A. All ingredients are different in how they work. GDA is a very broad, generalized term for a product, but the truth is everything is it’s own ingredient(s).

B. Increasing insulin sensitivity is not the same thing as using exogenous insulin (or increased endogenous insulin for that matter).

C. An ingredient like Berberine that decreases total glucose absorption is working differently than an ingredient like chromium or vanadium that increase sensitivity. If someone uses Berberine and therefore absorbs less glucose, they secrete less insulin, which means it will decrease storage of circulating fats than if the pancreas had to work harder.

Just some points for consideration.

A 10 min walk post meal is going to act more like berberine. And they can be combined obviously.

 

[MrKleen73]

A. All ingredients are different in how they work. GDA is a very broad, generalized term for a product, but the truth is everything is it’s own ingredient(s).

B. Increasing insulin sensitivity is not the same thing as using exogenous insulin (or increased endogenous insulin for that matter).

C. An ingredient like Berberine that decreases total glucose absorption is working differently than an ingredient like chromium or vanadium that increase sensitivity. If someone uses Berberine and therefore absorbs less glucose, they secrete less insulin, which means it will decrease storage of circulating fats than if the pancreas had to work harder.

Just some points for consideration.

A 10 min walk post meal is going to act more like berberine. And they can be combined obviously.

A: True, good point.

B: 100% agree - However in a cheat meal situation there is definitely going to be a large insulin release. So increased insulin sensitivity in the presence of high insulin is typically going to shuttle nutrients into the appropriate tissues, in this case carbs and fats into muscle, and fats going into fats. Although nowhere near what it would be on exogenous insulin.

C: Yeah berberine is probably the better GDA for that in my opinion. It has a direct effect on the Glut4 translocators in muscle tissue so it is going to also be a little more tissue specific. I need to revisit the berberine research again. I don't remember reading that berberine made people absorb less glucose. I was under the impression it's MOA had more to do with Glut 4 translocation and increasing insulin sensitivity that way. So I need to go back and revisit that for sure.

Great points to consider for sure. Now I have some berberine research to do. I haven't looked it up in probably 10+ years.

 

[rascal14]

So I am still struggling

texted my coach Tuesday basically saying I am done ready to start reversing calories lol I have been waking up starving, panic attacks all day long, can’t sleep. He Had me have a big cheat meal Tuesday night and I took some klonopin and felt great Wednesday morning. Started struggling Wednesday night again and all day yesterday panic attacks. Weights even raising after the cheat meal despite following the plan no matter how much I’m hating it.

I’ve got two options so I stopped the AOD today (I’ve got 3 brand new vials if anyone is interested) seeing if that may just be pushing me over the edge. Thought maybe it was making me go hypo but tested that and ate some sugary snacks yesterday and it didn’t help.

I’m just about burnt out on the calorie restriction itself. The only thing that sucks is I was back down to 188 this last weekend, this morning I was at 197?? I can only guess lack of sleep and stress is causing it. I was 192 after my cheat on Tuesday.

We won’t go straight to a bulk on November 1 so I really feel like adding some calories back in now won’t be the end of the world but it just sucks failing so close to the end honestly

 

[akboom87]

Lack of sleep/stress raises your cortisol levels and probably causing the gain.

One thing that has helped me last few months, i would do like 2-3 days sometimes 4 of eating my maintenance calories. Then I would drop back down calories.

Hou have been cutting a lot harder then me though so not sure how great my tips are

 

[Wobmarvel]

That's nonsense... If he isn't having an obvious bad reaction then there is Zero as in Coke Zero reasons to cut out the diet sodas. Some men need to pick up their purses and pull their balls back out of them. Worrying about nonsensical things like sugar alcohols. If you look at the things higher in risk for cancer than aspartame, you will see that going outside is a higher risk of causing cancer. If you are one of the few who has a side effect from non-nutritive sweeteners then don't use the ones that bother you specifically. Otherwise the worst thing about sodas is the high acidity. People just worry about too much small stuff and wonder why they are stressed out. It would take like 28* diet cokes a day over a long period of time to get to anywhere near any levels that triggered any issues in studies.

Also there is nothing safer about Stevia because it is natural. Look at the list of side effects including ocular migraines and forgetting things. Besides the idea natural things are healthier for you is silly. Black Mamba venom is natural but it will kill you quick and horribly.

This is natural?

 

[rascal14]

Lack of sleep/stress raises your cortisol levels and probably causing the gain.

One thing that has helped me last few months, i would do like 2-3 days sometimes 4 of eating my maintenance calories. Then I would drop back down calories.

Hou have been cutting a lot harder then me though so not sure how great my tips are

He’s told me to have the extra cheat meals - he must think they are more beneficial than stopping 3 weeks early. My problem is when I cheat, I cheat hard and probably ruin my results for an entire week lol

I probably do need more strategic and planned refeeds to avoid full on cheats, or just give me a calorie restriction on a refeed day with specific macros so I have a template to follow. When he says “eat whatever you want as your last meal of the day, but eat your normal meals first” that’s just a recipe for a 5,000 calorie day for me lol

 

[akboom87]

He’s told me to have the extra cheat meals - he must think they are more beneficial than stopping 3 weeks early. My problem is when I cheat, I cheat hard and probably ruin my results for an entire week lol

I probably do need more strategic and planned refeeds to avoid full on cheats, or just give me a calorie restriction on a refeed day with specific macros so I have a template to follow. When he says “eat whatever you want as your last meal of the day, but eat your normal meals first” that’s just a recipe for a 5,000 calorie day for me lol

Gotcha, yeah that makes sense. Have you told him? Seems like if you know you can’t hold back tell him to set limits,so you can have some restraint and not go ham.

 

[Resolve10]

Lack of sleep/stress raises your cortisol levels and probably causing the gain.

One thing that has helped me last few months, i would do like 2-3 days sometimes 4 of eating my maintenance calories. Then I would drop back down calories.

Hou have been cutting a lot harder then me though so not sure how great my tips are

Ya there are a lot of ways to go about it, it is important to remember that it is a long journey and not to get too wrapped up in forcing short term results. It is good to find something like that which can help prolong keeping you moving in the right direction.

He’s told me to have the extra cheat meals - he must think they are more beneficial than stopping 3 weeks early. My problem is when I cheat, I cheat hard and probably ruin my results for an entire week lol

I probably do need more strategic and planned refeeds to avoid full on cheats, or just give me a calorie restriction on a refeed day with specific macros so I have a template to follow. When he says “eat whatever you want as your last meal of the day, but eat your normal meals first” that’s just a recipe for a 5,000 calorie day for me lol

Ya your coach probably knows what he is doing, but it is important to remember not everyone does well with the same kind of things. Some people do need more specific structure (at least at certain times) than others.

 

[rascal14]

Ya there are a lot of ways to go about it, it is important to remember that it is a long journey and not to get too wrapped up in forcing short term results. It is good to find something like that which can help prolong keeping you moving in the right direction.



Ya your coach probably knows what he is doing, but it is important to remember not everyone does well with the same kind of things. Some people do need more specific structure (at least at certain times) than others.

Yes he is actually very good, kind of old school but I personally do need the structure. I’ve learned if I’m not eating the same thing every single day - it is tough for me stay on track with calories so in a cutting scenario I need that structure for sure. Which is a cool thing I did learn throughout this process on myself.

 

[MrKleen73]

This is natural?View attachment 236825

@Wobmarvel LMAO, probably not, BUT THIS IS!

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah man, it sounds like you have hit the end of your rope. Almost makes me wonder if somebody sold you some MK with all of that bloat. I can totally understand why you want to stop if it has gotten that bad. Hopefully the bloat will start dropping off now that you are stopping the AOD.

 

[Hyde]

Man MK would f this guy up for sure, deep in a cut. Gives me some spooky dreams half the time too.

 

[rascal14]

Lol I have a couple MK pills the guy gave me to try, did not do that yet and probably won’t!

been 2 days since last AOD dose, cheated like hell yesterday but I also had severe anxiety all day yesterday. I don’t necessarily think the diet is the problem, but it’s easy for me to blame it on or for it to be a target since I am hungry a lot of the time.

Edit - also been taking Ursa Major for several months but got 1 bottle left, highly doubt it’s from that so I plan to keep running it. I am taking pregnenolone daily, I thought it was helping at first but I may pause that as well.

the only other thing I can think of is I switched to UGL testosterone for one single shot with the intention of using it vs my RX since it’s been sitting in my closet for several months. I wouldn’t imagine 1 pin of that would **** me up this bad, but I’m going to change back to RX just to rule it out as well.

My bloods came came back all good. 840 test and like 48 e2. Test was lower on purpose because I had told him last I was going to try a bit smaller dose. I was worried he’d cut my dose down if I kept coming in at 1200-1300 lol

Got a phone call with my coach today, on my update yesterday I told him again I may have to cut it short but I was going to keep following the plan. I assume the last two weeks here will be just enough to lose the water from the two cheats this week lol I’d like to maybe get back down to 188 before stopping, I’m wondering if I can get there with a bit higher calories than where we have been at.

 

[rascal14]

Call with coach went well, basically said "wtfs going on with you" I explained and told him I already have anxiety problems, I've just gotten to the point where now the diet is messing with me and I'm stressing about that, waiting until November 1, I may lose another pound or so is all, may as well start increasing now.

He basically said "You're already lean, let's add a few calories in and reduce cardio. I've dealt with anxiety I understand it but you also need to try to tell yourself 'I can eat whenever I want, I am not starving no one is forcing me to do this' he said this should be fun and I should be enjoying every day getting leaner and seeing results. If not, then yeah we should switch it up.

Long winded way of saying I am now hovering around 2500 calories, cardio reduced to 30 minutes 5 days a week. I imagine this puts me around maintenance, not entirely sure if he is looking for continued weight loss, recomp, or gain as he only sent me the updated plan late last night.

Overall diet remains the same - added extra ezekial bread in the morning with 100g blueberries and reintroduced whole eggs at this meal (wonder if maybe the reduction of whole eggs dropped my fats too low, maybe not enough choline? could be a stretch), extra rice each meal (20g) and added 200g cooked potatoes at the post workout meal, along with 10g extra carbs at my midnight protein snack meal.

 

[rascal14]

Basically ending photos, a little disappointed I’m holding the extra water, the week before I was 189lbs.
Here I’m at 192.lbs exactly on 10/14/23

 

[rascal14]

This was the week prior

 

[rascal14]

Honest opinions on ending bodyfat percentage? I definitely could’ve stood to get more lean, but I also feel like I now know that I have very little muscle mass and if I can lean bulk properly, next cut will be shorter and better results.

 

[MrKleen73]

You look pretty lean, maybe 10ish, 12ish on the high end. Honestly I think you look fuller now and not much less lean, you were just dryer in the 189 pic.

 

[Hyde]

Pregnenolone taken too long, too often, at enough dosage will absolutely cause anxiety. You should have mentioned that - you need to stop messing with so many variables at once.

If I take 10mg daily I will get anxious in like a week. Doesn’t take much at all. Other guys I’ve heard 50mg daily year round no issue. Totally individual.

 

[rascal14]

Pregnenolone taken too long, too often, at enough dosage will absolutely cause anxiety. You should have mentioned that - you need to stop messing with so many variables at once.

If I take 10mg daily I will get anxious in like a week. Doesn’t take much at all. Other guys I’ve heard 50mg daily year round no issue. Totally individual.

I've been taking 10mg daily for probably 10 months now and that was my first thought was maybe its catching up, but I couldn't figure out why it was just now coming up. I stopped it for a few days when the anxiety came back on real bad, reintroduced at eod, now back to everyday. Not sure how long it takes to actually see the effects of a dosage change with it, but I settled on 10mg ed because of the original dosing and generally I felt okay. Like you said I hate to change alot at once so I'm hesistant to drop it again because it did seem to be working and the addition of it several months ago helped the anxiety (or so it seemed)

@Hyde is the blood test to check for pregnenolone or downstream hormones a good thing to keep an eye on? To try and track dosage vs anxiety - I don’t have any starting values for reference is my only concern.


Overall anxiety has still been a disaster, took two days off work last week and got some genetic testing done to see what meds my body will respond to, started zoloft at a low dose until those results come back. Was alternating Klonopin and Ambien to get some sleep to try and get back on schedule there.

Not sure what other people consider anxiety when it comes to hormones, but I was on the verge of "I think I need to go to a hospital" last week, just feeling absolutely horrible and like I was going crazy. Only benzos help but again that's something I won't take daily.

 

[rascal14]

I’ll update the actual log too, workouts have not been missed. Cheated an extra day on the diet but weight held steady at 191 this last week. We are dropping cardio to 20mph 5x a week. I’ll do extra cardio if I am bad and eat a little extra snack on the diet. Going to try my best to stick to it, because once I start “bulking” I let loose quick but seeing I didn’t get as lean as I probably should’ve, I don’t want to **** around and get super fat again.

Just need to make it through the holidays then see where I’m at, maybe go for another cut earlier in the year and try and actually be 8-10% for summer. All assuming my mental health is on the up and up

would love to start this anavar but I know that’s the last thing I need to do - insert another variable.



** unrelated side note I didn’t mention - during my mental health break from work I went home home to see family for a few days while deciding if I was going to try and Medicate with the rx I was given previously or go to a facility.. lol my wife gave me an ultimatum, my panic attacks got very bad for a couple days there.

but anyways - unfortunately my dad found his brother passed away the morning after we got there. He had been taking care of him a lot lately because he was a severe alcoholic and could barely get himself around at less than 60 years old. He was supposed to have an initial home visit from a new home health nurse that day to look at getting him on hospice, wasn’t answering the phone etc. dad went to check on him, called my mom, immediately we all knew what he said. 5 minutes from my mom saying “dad can’t get ahold of brother, he’s going to check on him” to my mom answering “hello… oh my god”

I wasn’t super close I just feel horrible for my dad to have been the one to find him and they’d been close off and on. We knew it was coming but it was a quick change in plans.

 

[Hyde]

I don’t believe testing your preg levels will be useful for anything, other than if you did it frequently you could try to correlate how you felt at different levels - but that’s not even very helpful because you have 9,000 other real-life variables at play.

Sorry to hear about your uncle. You have stress/grief for your father’s loss, even though you weren’t close to the deceased. So it still affects you indirectly.

 

[MrKleen73]

Sorry to hear about the family situation. Like Hyde said it is still a source of stress for you even if you were not close.

So how are the panic attacks right now?

 

[Stacks1]

@GreenMachineX Haha! WHOOPS! I jumped the gun, but also was being sarcastic about what I was saying which sounded funny in my head but reads like I was trying to be an azzhole! Sorry about that. The aspartame and cancer thing has just been beat to death recently, and my hypochondriac co-worker is all "You got another can full of cancer eh?" every time he sees me enjoying a Sprite Zero or Coke Zero. Which, I am pretty sure they use sucralose anyway. Either way, my bad.

Great study! It confirms everything I have been telling people for years about sugar alcohols. However I did not know that stevia actually increased insulin sensitivity. So just learned something new. I really don't enjoy stevia all that much because... well it just tastes bad. However that is a nice side effect if you wanted to say have a stevia based drink with or before a meal to aid in where it lands. That being said, I don't know that making him more insulin sensitive would do anything for his hunger levels. I would imagine lower blood sugar would increase his hunger. Unless you were just referring to getting BG lower overall for fat loss.

I agree with you that the whole aspartame = cancer thing is dumb. Especially when it comes from people who are probably consuming tons of sucralose and don't even know it.

Personally, I am trying to avoid excess sucralose as #1 - I find it to be too sweet and #2 - it's possibly the most unhealthy artificial sweetener (I wasn't thrilled with the recent study that showed it damaged DNA). Problem is, 95% of the protein powders and other supplements now use sucralose. However, there are some really good protein powders out there that use stevia instead. Isopure makes a really good one, which is my standard now. Also, a lot of the "natural" advertised protein powders use stevia as well.

 

[rascal14]

Sorry to hear about the family situation. Like Hyde said it is still a source of stress for you even if you were not close.

So how are the panic attacks right now?

Still pretty brutal on days I don't take a benzo. I am hopeful the Zoloft will work soon, I got gene testing done and it says I basically metabolize all drugs normally, so no crazy interactions or need for mega dosing things (my moms has med metabolization problems, this test also gives you most likely meds that will work for you)

I don't think I can link the anxiety to any one thing no matter how hard I try, I think it finally just caught up with me. Starting therapy once a week vs every 4 weeks again and finally trying medication after having to leave work mid day and damn near go to the hospital it was so bad, immediately fixed by taking a Klonopin so I knew I just need something to get me through the everyday anxiety - atleast for the time being. I do have some psilocybin I am going to try as well.

Seemed that helped my mood a couple years ago when I first tried it, just gave me horrible anxiety on the come up so I’ve avoided it but the research and anecdotal evidence in psychedelic therapies is so profound I can’t ignore it.

Somehow the majority of the anxiety is linked to sleep, in particular if I dose off and wake up (10 minutes or 2 hours) I wake up in a panicked state for some reason. This leads to anxiety about sleep in general which leads to feeling claustrophobic, which causes more anxiety. It's just a cycle of one giant mind **** I can't get out of. This leads to lack of sleep - which then causes me to dose off during the day, creating day time panic attacks which has never been a problem before which is where I kind of drew the line, it is now starting to affect my day to day life (as if sleeping alone wasn't enough of a reason to take it serious)

 

[MrKleen73]

Still pretty brutal on days I don't take a benzo. I am hopeful the Zoloft will work soon, I got gene testing done and it says I basically metabolize all drugs normally, so no crazy interactions or need for mega dosing things (my moms has med metabolization problems, this test also gives you most likely meds that will work for you)

I don't think I can link the anxiety to any one thing no matter how hard I try, I think it finally just caught up with me. Starting therapy once a week vs every 4 weeks again and finally trying medication after having to leave work mid day and damn near go to the hospital it was so bad, immediately fixed by taking a Klonopin so I knew I just need something to get me through the everyday anxiety - atleast for the time being. I do have some psilocybin I am going to try as well.

Seemed that helped my mood a couple years ago when I first tried it, just gave me horrible anxiety on the come up so I’ve avoided it but the research and anecdotal evidence in psychedelic therapies is so profound I can’t ignore it.

Somehow the majority of the anxiety is linked to sleep, in particular if I dose off and wake up (10 minutes or 2 hours) I wake up in a panicked state for some reason. This leads to anxiety about sleep in general which leads to feeling claustrophobic, which causes more anxiety. It's just a cycle of one giant mind **** I can't get out of. This leads to lack of sleep - which then causes me to dose off during the day, creating day time panic attacks which has never been a problem before which is where I kind of drew the line, it is now starting to affect my day to day life (as if sleeping alone wasn't enough of a reason to take it serious)

Is THC an option for you, or does it have the opposite effect? Yesterday after all of the car issues and everything I just had major anxiety sitting on my chest like a rage monster looking for a victim. I ate a 100mg Delta-8 gummy, and 30 minutes later everything relaxed, my chest loosened up, my voice lowered and relaxed, and the anxiety dissipated. Now i wouldn't recommend a 100mg gummy at work but a 10-20mg could do the trick. As far as psilocybin, I can't believe that is legal here in Texas, but you can't smoke weed. Kind of crazy. I have never used psychedelic's to help with anxiety, only recreationally, but can see how microdosing could help. What doses are you looking at for microdosing?

 

[rascal14]

Is THC an option for you, or does it have the opposite effect? Yesterday after all of the car issues and everything I just had major anxiety sitting on my chest like a rage monster looking for a victim. I ate a 100mg Delta-8 gummy, and 30 minutes later everything relaxed, my chest loosened up, my voice lowered and relaxed, and the anxiety dissipated. Now i wouldn't recommend a 100mg gummy at work but a 10-20mg could do the trick. As far as psilocybin, I can't believe that is legal here in Texas, but you can't smoke weed. Kind of crazy. I have never used psychedelic's to help with anxiety, only recreationally, but can see how microdosing could help. What doses are you looking at for microdosing?

THC does bad things to me lol I’ve tried so many times and have had maybe 3/100 be a tolerable experience. CBD doesn’t do the trick either, I’ve tried up to 200mg of that combined with 2mg THC, by itself, etc. and don’t get any of the anxiety relief.

I’ve done both full trips and microdosing, microdosing I usually do .1-.2g and typically around .5g I start to feel like “okay I’m not really microdosing anymore I shouldn’t be at work right now” lol

The biggest change I noticed was after a full on 4g dose that was just for fun, but taking that much I really want to be in a good head space to start with. I haven’t tried micro dosing since it’s gotten this bad recently, though so it may do the trick.

 

[MrKleen73]

THC does bad things to me lol I’ve tried so many times and have had maybe 3/100 be a tolerable experience. CBD doesn’t do the trick either, I’ve tried up to 200mg of that combined with 2mg THC, by itself, etc. and don’t get any of the anxiety relief.

I’ve done both full trips and microdosing, microdosing I usually do .1-.2g and typically around .5g I start to feel like “okay I’m not really microdosing anymore I shouldn’t be at work right now” lol

The biggest change I noticed was after a full on 4g dose that was just for fun, but taking that much I really want to be in a good head space to start with. I haven’t tried micro dosing since it’s gotten this bad recently, though so it may do the trick.

Yeah, with psychedelics you really want to be in a good headspace if taking enough to alter your perception of reality. Don't need a bad trip to make you anxious about microdosing to calm yourself. LOL

 

[rascal14]

Yeah, with psychedelics you really want to be in a good headspace if taking enough to alter your perception of reality. Don't need a bad trip to make you anxious about microdosing to calm yourself. LOL

no ****, that’s exactly what I’d do too! Lol

 

[rascal14]

I was ordering some cheaper protein from DPS (Rule 1 - first time trying any if theres) and went ahead and got some SNS Glycophase for cheat meals and CEL Cycle Assist on the way for whenever I feel good enough to start the Anavar.

also more psycho pharma edge pump, it’s done pretty good for me so far even with the lack of calories as a whole.

 

[MrKleen73]

I was ordering some cheaper protein from DPS (Rule 1 - first time trying any if theres) and went ahead and got some SNS Glycophase for cheat meals and CEL Cycle Assist on the way for whenever I feel good enough to start the Anavar.

also more psycho pharma edge pump, it’s done pretty good for me so far even with the lack of calories as a whole.

I enjoyed the Rule 1 Whey I used to get. Not a bad product for the price.

 

[rascal14]

Weight was down? About .5lb this week. Still hovering around 190-191lbs.

Added AOD back in a few days ago, probably stupid but when I stopped, my anxiety stayed the same after a couple weeks so I know it’s not the compound causing it. Tricking myself into thinking it’s making me feel BETTER. GH like compound = feel good. Plus, no other person on earth gets debilitating anxiety from peptides (may be an exaggeration), so I know it’s just me personally.

Anyways, he wants to keep diet/training the same this week to see what happens. May be looking for some slight recomp since I ended the cut short, or perhaps just taking things slow which I’m okay with so I don’t get too fat. Muscles are slightly more full and I’m a bit more bloated after my first meal since it’s bigger now but other than that the added food has helped me mentally some.

May sneak a little extra cheat meal after a hard leg or back day this week. I’ve been making a protein powder + sugar free syrup + serving of cereal then freezing it. Make a little desert bar and it is a nice lower calorie “treat”. Saves a lot of cravings for less than 400 calories.

 

[rascal14]

I think a goal on this bulk is to really focus on ab development. They are severely lacking to where even at this low bodyfat, I have barely any visible ab muscle and I’ve always heard once they are built they take little to no effort to keep since they are used so often for other exercises as stabilizers.

I know I don’t have any flexed photos and need to focus on every muscle part because of how small I am, but I think lats, legs, right pec is lagging behind, and Abs are going to be top priority as of now atleast.

 

[rascal14]

Obviously I can’t pose for ****… never tried to pose correctly so that’s my excuse. Full front shot is from 10/21, the behind the back shot is from last night, veins looked crazy compared to what I’m used to. You can see the chest imbalance pretty good in this shot, and lack of lats and Abs. And everything else to be honest. Lol

 

[Dustin07]

They are severely lacking to where even at this low bodyfat, I have barely any visible ab muscle and I’ve always heard once they are built they take little to no effort to keep since they are used so often for other exercises as stabilizers.

There might be some truth to that. I busted my ass 10-12 years ago to get abs and really my abs were better at 178 than they were at 168 (sitting at about 200 now). and these days I don't really believe in a lot of ab work because any time I lean up a bit they show just fine. but i did a TON of ab volume and lat volume for years since I did a ton of xfit comps. so it was always pull-ups, muscle ups, pulling, deadlifts, cleans, snatch etc. and then the abs were destroyed on the daily with sit ups, med ball twists, russian twists, toes to bar etc. to this day I still believe that the high volume to failure on a regular basis built me more hypertrophy than anything. my chest measurement was the same size then at 20lbs lighter than it is now.

You can see the chest imbalance pretty good in this shot, and lack of lats and Abs.

I don't think this photo is a fair indicator of where your lats are, you just need to learn how to flare them. Abs might also just need a little practice because you are lean AF right now and looking awesome.

below is a pic from my skinny boi days on how I tried to figure out where my back was when I was doing a selfie solo lol so just food for thought in case you wanna try that angle. Another thing I have done recently is actually set my camera up in video mode then take some poses in the video... from there you can just pause the video at particular poses and take screen shots.

the problem with holding the camera like this is it was easy to get half my lats and arms / delts flexed but not the other half LOL

you're looking hella good dude, keep up the momentum