Cutting Log

[GreenMachineX]

That's nonsense... If he isn't having an obvious bad reaction then there is Zero as in Coke Zero reasons to cut out the diet sodas. Some men need to pick up their purses and pull their balls back out of them. Worrying about nonsensical things like sugar alcohols. If you look at the things higher in risk for cancer than aspartame, you will see that going outside is a higher risk of causing cancer. If you are one of the few who has a side effect from non-nutritive sweeteners then don't use the ones that bother you specifically. Otherwise the worst thing about sodas is the high acidity. People just worry about too much small stuff and wonder why they are stressed out. It would take like 28* diet cokes a day over a long period of time to get to anywhere near any levels that triggered any issues in studies.

Also there is nothing safer about Stevia because it is natural. Look at the list of side effects including ocular migraines and forgetting things. Besides the idea natural things are healthier for you is silly. Black Mamba venom is natural but it will kill you quick and horribly.

Geez Louise...I'm referring to the insulin response.

Effects of stevia, aspartame, and sucrose on food intake, satiety, and postprandial glucose and insulin levels

Consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages may be one of the dietary causes of metabolic disorders, such as obesity. Therefore, substituting sugar with low-calorie sweeteners may be an efficacious weight management strategy. We tested the effect of preloads ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Never said anything about natural or unnatural, but unless something changed in the past few years, wild swings in insulin are generally less favorable than more stable variations.

 

[MrKleen73]

Geez Louise...I'm referring to the insulin response.

Effects of stevia, aspartame, and sucrose on food intake, satiety, and postprandial glucose and insulin levels

Consumption of sugar-sweetened beverages may be one of the dietary causes of metabolic disorders, such as obesity. Therefore, substituting sugar with low-calorie sweeteners may be an efficacious weight management strategy. We tested the effect of preloads ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Never said anything about natural or unnatural, but unless something changed in the past few years, wild swings in insulin are generally less favorable than more stable variations.

@GreenMachineX Haha! WHOOPS! I jumped the gun, but also was being sarcastic about what I was saying which sounded funny in my head but reads like I was trying to be an azzhole! Sorry about that. The aspartame and cancer thing has just been beat to death recently, and my hypochondriac co-worker is all "You got another can full of cancer eh?" every time he sees me enjoying a Sprite Zero or Coke Zero. Which, I am pretty sure they use sucralose anyway. Either way, my bad.

Great study! It confirms everything I have been telling people for years about sugar alcohols. However I did not know that stevia actually increased insulin sensitivity. So just learned something new. I really don't enjoy stevia all that much because... well it just tastes bad. However that is a nice side effect if you wanted to say have a stevia based drink with or before a meal to aid in where it lands. That being said, I don't know that making him more insulin sensitive would do anything for his hunger levels. I would imagine lower blood sugar would increase his hunger. Unless you were just referring to getting BG lower overall for fat loss.

 

[rascal14]

How many calories are you at a day?

What kind of soda is that? Maybe to lower the load of aspartame, swap out a couple of those for Zevia? I love the orange ones.

About 2100 calories.

yeah the aspartame isn’t great, but I figure I’m no longer drinking like I was before on weekends, eating healthier, etc. this is ONLY for this portion of the cut to be fair. Otherwise I’d drink 0-1 a day, previously before the cut I drank soda maybe once a month, if that.

really just a way to artificially fill my belly for 4 weeks. I do agree that it would be better to not drink them or drink less.

 

[rascal14]

I’ve not read the study you reference yet, but in my eyes a few sodas (zero sugar) a day, for 4-8 weeks is not ideal, but neither was getting blackout drunk 2-3 nights a month.

Damn near everything will cause you cancer these days to some degree, but I think if you can keep it in moderation (short periods), the effect is probably negligible.

I will have to look into the insulin sensitivity aspect - I’m far from knowing much about that functionality of the body to be honest.

 

[MrKleen73]

About 2100 calories.

yeah the aspartame isn’t great, but I figure I’m no longer drinking like I was before on weekends, eating healthier, etc. this is ONLY for this portion of the cut to be fair. Otherwise I’d drink 0-1 a day, previously before the cut I drank soda maybe once a month, if that.

really just a way to artificially fill my belly for 4 weeks. I do agree that it would be better to not drink them or drink less.

I drink Topo Chico carbonated mineral water for this reason. Gives me the filled up feeling and something different than water, then I may or may not have 1-2 Coke or Sprite Zeros on some days for a little taste. Often on a fasting day.

 

[rascal14]

@GreenMachineX Haha! WHOOPS! I jumped the gun, but also was being sarcastic about what I was saying which sounded funny in my head but reads like I was trying to be an azzhole! Sorry about that. The aspartame and cancer thing has just been beat to death recently, and my hypochondriac co-worker is all "You got another can full of cancer eh?" every time he sees me enjoying a Sprite Zero or Coke Zero. Which, I am pretty sure they use sucralose anyway. Either way, my bad.

Great study! It confirms everything I have been telling people for years about sugar alcohols. However I did not know that stevia actually increased insulin sensitivity. So just learned something new. I really don't enjoy stevia all that much because... well it just tastes bad. However that is a nice side effect if you wanted to say have a stevia based drink with or before a meal to aid in where it lands. That being said, I don't know that making him more insulin sensitive would do anything for his hunger levels. I would imagine lower blood sugar would increase his hunger. Unless you were just referring to getting BG lower overall for fat loss.

Man I almost bought a shirt that says “I love aspartame” just because of this very reason, people hate on it all the time in reality 99.99% of people would notice absolutely no difference, if not, benefit from an aspartame sweetened beverage vs their fully sugar beverage (less cals)

 

[GreenMachineX]

I’ve not read the study you reference yet, but in my eyes a few sodas (zero sugar) a day, for 4-8 weeks is not ideal, but neither was getting blackout drunk 2-3 nights a month.

Damn near everything will cause you cancer these days to some degree, but I think if you can keep it in moderation (short periods), the effect is probably negligible.

I will have to look into the insulin sensitivity aspect - I’m far from knowing much about that functionality of the body to be honest.

Agreed all around...a few sodas is no big deal, but for real...I find the orange Zevia actually enjoyable, but diet coke is delicious too lol

 

[rascal14]

I drink Topo Chico carbonated mineral water for this reason. Gives me the filled up feeling and something different than water, then I may or may not have 1-2 Coke or Sprite Zeros on some days for a little taste. Often on a fasting day.

I was drinking the La Croix until I was introduced to zero sugar sodas and they’re an absolute game changer in terms of flavor!! Lol

 

[GreenMachineX]

@GreenMachineX Haha! WHOOPS! I jumped the gun, but also was being sarcastic about what I was saying which sounded funny in my head but reads like I was trying to be an azzhole! Sorry about that. The aspartame and cancer thing has just been beat to death recently, and my hypochondriac co-worker is all "You got another can full of cancer eh?" every time he sees me enjoying a Sprite Zero or Coke Zero. Which, I am pretty sure they use sucralose anyway. Either way, my bad.

Great study! It confirms everything I have been telling people for years about sugar alcohols. However I did not know that stevia actually increased insulin sensitivity. So just learned something new. I really don't enjoy stevia all that much because... well it just tastes bad. However that is a nice side effect if you wanted to say have a stevia based drink with or before a meal to aid in where it lands. That being said, I don't know that making him more insulin sensitive would do anything for his hunger levels. I would imagine lower blood sugar would increase his hunger. Unless you were just referring to getting BG lower overall for fat loss.

Lol it's all good.

 

[MrKleen73]

Agreed all around...a few sodas is no big deal, but for real...I find the orange Zevia actually enjoyable, but diet coke is delicious too lol

So is Zevia a brand of carbonated drink I have never heard of? I may have to give it a shot to see if I like it based on your recommendation.

 

[rascal14]

Agreed all around...a few sodas is no big deal, but for real...I find the orange Zevia actually enjoyable, but diet coke is delicious too lol

I have tried the cream soda Zevia, it was good just not AS good as zero sugar cream soda in other forms.
I do want to try the grape version. I can’t find a zero sugar grape soda anywhere

 

[GreenMachineX]

So is Zevia a brand of carbonated drink I have never heard of? I may have to give it a shot to see if I like it based on your recommendation.

Yeah, just a brand that uses stevia and I got into it when I was full on keto trying to keep blood glucose and insulin as low as possible. Target has it. My wife likes them all, but I really only like the grape and orange because you can definitely taste the stevia in the rest.

 

[Resolve10]

Feel I am a little late to the party so sorry, but quick information dump.

First, the study linked even states:

When consuming stevia and aspartame preloads, participants did not compensate by eating more at either their lunch or dinner meal and reported similar levels of satiety compared to when they consumed the higher calorie sucrose preload.

So regardless it didn't cause them to change their eating habits.

Next, this study includes a compilation of existing studies with regards to glycemic control and concluded

While the discovery of non-gustatory, T1R family of sweet taste receptors has been a significant tool in research investigating the pathways of nutrient-sensing and potential role of sweet taste receptors therein, numerous studies in humans, including the study reported here, and more recent studies in animals provide strong evidence that sweet taste signal transduction as a result of sucralose consumption does not lead to clinically meaningful effects on blood glucose.

Many of the initial studies had flaws (like lacking control) and it has been posited as well that there is a difference between habitual users and non-users (so if people continued to use them they wouldn't get a response anymore potentially).

One thing to also keep in mind is sometimes studies don't delineate between clinically and statistically significant findings, as in if a study has some slight effects on insulin or blood glucose, but those effects don't show any actual change in health outcomes or body composition change do they even truly matter?

It would take way more to go into other potential reasons to avoid them (I don't so I am not saying these other reasons are valid), but overall it seems as a way to replace sugar and cravings in an attempt to improve health outcomes and body composition change they have a place and seem well tolerated.

At the end of the day if someone is truly worried about individual response they could always just measure their own blood glucose to come to their own conclusions.

*final caveat that a lot of this in regards to all sweeteners, but seems relevant to the discussion since they all seem to get lumped in together when people talk about them.

Ok sorry for the long post.

 

[MrKleen73]

Feel I am a little late to the party so sorry, but quick information dump.

First, the study linked even states:

So regardless it didn't cause them to change their eating habits.

Next, this study includes a compilation of existing studies with regards to glycemic control and concluded


Many of the initial studies had flaws (like lacking control) and it has been posited as well that there is a difference between habitual users and non-users (so if people continued to use them they wouldn't get a response anymore potentially).

One thing to also keep in mind is sometimes studies don't delineate between clinically and statistically significant findings, as in if a study has some slight effects on insulin or blood glucose, but those effects don't show any actual change in health outcomes or body composition change do they even truly matter?

It would take way more to go into other potential reasons to avoid them (I don't so I am not saying these other reasons are valid), but overall it seems as a way to replace sugar and cravings in an attempt to improve health outcomes and body composition change they have a place and seem well tolerated.

At the end of the day if someone is truly worried about individual response they could always just measure their own blood glucose to come to their own conclusions.

*final caveat that a lot of this in regards to all sweeteners, but seems relevant to the discussion since they all seem to get lumped in together when people talk about them.

Ok sorry for the long post.

No, it is a great and informative post! I agree, I also wonder if some of the original studies were paid for by oh let's say sugar companies or the like? I mean if I were "big sugar" I wouldn't have a problem having someone design a study in a way that leads people to believe negatives about the thing that is driving use of my product down. That is another part of what a lot of people don't realize. A study can be designed to point in the direction you want it to by adjusting parameters, and when the people getting the grants for this stuff from them give them what they want from a study they get more business. So a lot of the time finding something peer reviewed is a way to make sure it is a little more legit.

 

[sns8778]

That's nonsense... If he isn't having an obvious bad reaction then there is Zero as in Coke Zero reasons to cut out the diet sodas. Some men need to pick up their purses and pull their balls back out of them. Worrying about nonsensical things like sugar alcohols. If you look at the things higher in risk for cancer than aspartame, you will see that going outside is a higher risk of causing cancer. If you are one of the few who has a side effect from non-nutritive sweeteners then don't use the ones that bother you specifically. Otherwise the worst thing about sodas is the high acidity. People just worry about too much small stuff and wonder why they are stressed out. It would take like 28* diet cokes a day over a long period of time to get to anywhere near any levels that triggered any issues in studies.

Also there is nothing safer about Stevia because it is natural. Look at the list of side effects including ocular migraines and forgetting things. Besides the idea natural things are healthier for you is silly. Black Mamba venom is natural but it will kill you quick and horribly.

Anyone ever read anything and hear it in a voice like its being spoken to you?

Because when I read this post, I heard it in my mind like it was being spoken by this guy haha

 

[sns8778]

I don't particularly try to avoid any artificial sweeteners, but I will vouch for Zevia tasting good. I haven't tried the orange, but I love their grape and strawberry flavors.

Zevia Energy drinks are also my favorite energy drinks, particularly the Raspberry Lime and Grapefruit flavors.

 

[MrKleen73]

Anyone ever read anything and hear it in a voice like its being spoken to you?

Because when I read this post, I heard it in my mind like it was being spoken by this guy haha

View attachment 236496​

LMAO!!! I have been watching too much of Broderick Chavez and Mike Wyck videos lately. That hard nosed sarcastic speech style must have just carried over. I tend to talk a bit more rough than I type. LOL This was more my sarcastic talking side sneaking out.

I don't particularly try to avoid any artificial sweeteners, but I will vouch for Zevia tasting good. I haven't tried the orange, but I love their grape and strawberry flavors.

Zevia Energy drinks are also my favorite energy drinks, particularly the Raspberry Lime and Grapefruit flavors.

Oh okay they are energy drinks. I will have to try some.

 

[sns8778]

Oh okay they are energy drinks. I will have to try some.

Zevia has regular sugar free drinks and they have energy drinks.

The regular drinks are sugar free and don't have artificial sweeteners, but that's not why I drink them. I don't try to avoid artificial sweeteners, I just actually think they taste great. It's hard to find a good diet grape drink and theirs are awesome. And I've never seen a diet strawberry drink before and theirs are great.

Their energy drinks only have 120 mg. of caffeine in them, which I like for certain times of the day and I really like their flavors. The grapefruit and raspberry lime ones are really good.

I don't drink many diet sodas anyway, but when I do most of the time its one of the Zevia ones.

 

[Hyde]

Diet A&W Rootbeer is the top dog.

Mountain Dew Zero can be good depending on my disposition.

McDonald’s Diet Coke is a sweeter formulation when on the road I enjoy sometimes.

Zevia Grape and Cream are much more toned down options I also like that don’t have nearly the impact on my stomach acid as the sucralose, erythritol & aspartame seem to.

None of this matters to me right now; I drink a 52oz Whole Fairlife Milk daily atm, as well as about 24oz OJ just to keep my weight up, but come next week I get to stop being so fat

 

[rascal14]

Lol I tried yesterday to find the Zevia grape and had no luck!
I literally googled “zero sugar grape soda” two days ago.

not sure what’s going on, weight went up again this morning. Started taking sugar free fiber Sunday night because I was bloated but it’s only gotten worse. I can’t find anything about the AOD causing bloat so I still plan on continuing that, but I figured after stopping the GHRP2 the bloat would stop or go away.

May be my bodies way of saying “you have anavar in your backpack why aren’t you taking it yet”

 

[rascal14]

Diet A&W Rootbeer is the top dog.

Mountain Dew Zero can be good depending on my disposition.

McDonald’s Diet Coke is a sweeter formulation when on the road I enjoy sometimes.

Zevia Grape and Cream are much more toned down options I also like that don’t have nearly the impact on my stomach acid as the sucralose, erythritol & aspartame seem to.

None of this matters to me right now; I drink a 52oz Whole Fairlife Milk daily atm, as well as about 24oz OJ just to keep my weight up, but come next week I get to stop being so fat

The zero sugar root beer and cream sodas are by far my favorite. Zero sugar Dr. Pepper/Cream Soda is right there with them and is the staple right now.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Lol I tried yesterday to find the Zevia grape and had no luck!
I literally googled “zero sugar grape soda” two days ago.

not sure what’s going on, weight went up again this morning. Started taking sugar free fiber Sunday night because I was bloated but it’s only gotten worse. I can’t find anything about the AOD causing bloat so I still plan on continuing that, but I figured after stopping the GHRP2 the bloat would stop or go away.

May be my bodies way of saying “you have anavar in your backpack why aren’t you taking it yet”

It's probably the aspartame sticking to your organs

 

[rascal14]

It's probably the aspartame sticking to your organs

I don’t doubt it honestly! Lol I NEVER drank soda, now I’m addicted to these zero sugars. I’m gonna have to cut back just because I hate buying those 12 packs twice a week lol it’s embarrassing

I think I just need to go on a week long kick of chicken only, no carbs, no artificial sweeteners lol just boiled chicken like a sick dog.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I don’t doubt it honestly! Lol I NEVER drank soda, now I’m addicted to these zero sugars. I’m gonna have to cut back just because I hate buying those 12 packs twice a week lol it’s embarrassing

I think I just need to go on a week long kick of chicken only, no carbs, no artificial sweeteners lol just boiled chicken like a sick dog.

Iol
What's your current trt dose?

 

[MrKleen73]

I don’t doubt it honestly! Lol I NEVER drank soda, now I’m addicted to these zero sugars. I’m gonna have to cut back just because I hate buying those 12 packs twice a week lol it’s embarrassing

I think I just need to go on a week long kick of chicken only, no carbs, no artificial sweeteners lol just boiled chicken like a sick dog.

Just trust the process bud, it is only water. If coming from the peptides it will drop right off. Be careful with that aspartame too. I heard every time you carry around a water jug it makes you hold water.

 

[Hyde]

It’s normal to bloat when you add fiber in - your body has to adjust. Be ready, because a storm is brewing!

 

[sns8778]

Lol I tried yesterday to find the Zevia grape and had no luck!
I literally googled “zero sugar grape soda” two days ago.

It may vary area by area. I know Whole Foods carries them and Food Lion in my area carries them.

You can order the 6 pack or 12 packs online from a few places.

The grape and strawberry are really good. I like all the flavors I've tried, those are just my go to's.

 

[MrKleen73]

It’s normal to bloat when you add fiber in - your body has to adjust. Be ready, because a storm is brewing!

I was going to say the same thing. Fiber pulls water into the intestines making you bloat until the poo is goo and comes out of you.

 

[rascal14]

Iol
What's your current trt dose?

I’m taking 200mg/week, I need to try dropping it to be honest, that keeps me in the 1100-1200s with good blood work. I’ve got a blood work appointment Friday, so we will see how things look then. I was dropping down to 160/week but they come in 1ml vials and having to pull from 2 separate vials every other pin or so was annoying me so I went back to .5 ml/week a while back

 

[MrKleen73]

If bloods are looking good what is the reasoning for lowering the dose? That might just be "your" level.

 

[Dustin07]

Another interesting thing to note, I’m going to outgrow planet fitness on this bulk.
If I’m pressing 65lb dumbbells this deep into a cut, I’m sure as **** gonna be surpassing 75 in a bulk. Unfortunately there are basically no other options in my area (during the work week) except for at the university, and I don’t know if they’d give me access to the gym or not.

I can't remember what region you're in, no LA Fitnesses? I think my LA F membership is like $25-35/month vs the local "gold" PF for like $25 but I have been crazy impressed by the weight rooms! I go to two here in the Tacoma region and they are phenomenal, I say this as a guy who normally hates chain gyms.

I hate to say it out loud, but I have been drinking four, if not five, zero sugar sodas a day trying to stay full

If you're really concerned about it, how about picking up some of those sparkling waters? I tend to grab 1 or 2 diet cokes and 1 or 2 gatorade zeros when I go golfing as a "healthy" and stimulant filled alternative to beer. but in actuality I probably have only those two diet sodas per week. oh, actually I probably have a hand full of sugar free redbulls too. I think one has sucralose and the other has aspartame so I'm diversifying my risks lol

It would take like 28* diet cokes a day over a long period of time to get to anywhere near any levels that triggered any issues in studies.

I remember years ago one of the studies said it was much much higher than 28 a day, it was an insane amount of aspartame required to make you sick, although people tried to peg Michael J Fox's health issues to it. of course now, sucralose is public enemy #1

The aspartame and cancer thing has just been beat to death recently, and my hypochondriac co-worker is all "You got another can full of cancer eh?" every time he sees me enjoying a Sprite Zero or Coke Zero. Which, I am pretty sure they use sucralose anyway.

I'd only take that serious from someone who grows all their own food and lives off water.

I’ve not read the study you reference yet, but in my eyes a few sodas (zero sugar) a day, for 4-8 weeks is not ideal, but neither was getting blackout drunk 2-3 nights a month.

Damn near everything will cause you cancer these days to some degree,

I agree. someone very close to me who is a life long fitness minded individual, and refuses to use artificial sweeteners was diagnosed with cancer. Fidel castro smoked cigars for 80 years and lived into his 90s. My uncles co-worker dropped a heavy piece of wood on his toe, it swelled up and turned into cancer, he died. My co-workers mom slammed her tit into a cupboard one day, it bruised, swelled, became cancerous and she died. you can do everything right and still fail. our drinking water is tainted our produce is tainted the air we breathe is tainted. live life to the best of your ability and enjoy it.

 

[rascal14]

If bloods are looking good what is the reasoning for lowering the dose? That might just be "your" level.

well my anxiety has been noticeably worse and bacne got really bad when I did a cycle last fall for the first time in a very long time (since trying tren and ruining the entire sport for myself)

about 10 weeks into test only cycle I started getting daily panic attacks, I could only blame it on steroids because it happened right as I was about to start superdrol, injectable carnitine, glutathione, etc. i figured I was just starting too much “stuff” at one time. It also got way worse because I mentioned it was a slightly heightened at a routine doctors appointment and they prescribed me Lexapro to try. Essentially that week (all the above happening in 2-3 day span) the panic attacks became a nightly occurance, getting to the point of me having panic attacks about potentially having a panic attack. Then it went from a night time only thing to me being scared to try and sleep (sun goes down = panic attack), while simultaneously then having attacks during the day for the first time ever.

I never came off, just went to TRT levels. It’s gotten better (I’ve been going to therapy since then), and I keep telling myself it may just be the difference of 800 ng/dL vs the 1200+ I sit at on TRT. I owe it to my mental health to atleast try it lol

I can say with certainty that the gear probably heightened my existing anxiety a “little” then the combination of starting superdrol (“most toxic oral”) and the thought of trying an SSRI is what sent me over the edge(I got nonstop ads for SSRI induced sexual dysfunction from the day I first google lexapro).

weird combination of events and I just have never fully recovered to my baseline anxiety levels from a year ago, now being the only difference which is TRT. Seeing as my anxiety was better at 400 ng/dL but the rest of my life was worse energy, sex drive, etc. I just always say I need to try a more modest dose just to see how I feel.

 

[Dustin07]

to the point of me having panic attacks about potentially having a panic attack.

dude that's the worst, and the fatigue that follows an attack is crazy.
how old were you when they first started?

 

[rascal14]

dude that's the worst, and the fatigue that follows an attack is crazy.
how old were you when they first started?

I was probably 18-19 when I first recognized what was happening. My mom has very bad anxiety, PTSD, depression, etc. I have real bad OCD and now bad anxiety. I can handle the day to day generalized anxiety but the panic attacks are brutal and make me feel like I’m going crazy when they’re happening. They are a lot better and I’ve gotten to the point where I can distract myself from them but if I don’t have the energy or ability to distract myself, then they are bad.

 

[Dustin07]

I was probably 18-19 when I first recognized what was happening.

oh that's fucked, I'm sorry man. that's a super rough age to have to figure out how to navigate it. Is it a hereditary ailment? I see you mentioned mom and wondered. I recall dad experiencing it around age 40, my self at 36, and my wife's ex was actually mid 30s-40 as well so I started to notice a trend in men facing this struggle between 35-40. although all three of those examples had massive changes to their lives at that time as well.

 

[MrKleen73]

All good reasons to consider dropping the levels. It's funny my wife has some OCD like tendencies and damn near causes herself PTSD with every bad experience she has. Like once something bad happens it gets associated with that activity or behaviour then she or we can no longer do that anymore. One of our favorite restaurants we had been going to for over 20 years between the 2 of us. Once she got food poisoning and we could never go back. Even talking about eating there would make her feel sick to her stomach. There are so many situations like this too. She gets anxious about going to sleep in fear she won't be able t fall asleep so then she is anxious and because of that can not fall asleep. Just vicious circles she gets in. Similar to having anxiety about having anxiety attacks. She is also Type 2 Bipolar, and getting her on meds for that and a mood stabilizer has been a godsend. I just think it is interesting people with those tendencies you mentioned seem to run along the same lines and experiences.

 

[Hyde]

Gear levels (and compound selection) absolutely can impact your anxiety levels.

I probably feel best on 150mg/wk (30mg administered with a slinpin 5 days per week). Great libido and energy with it broken up like that and I can get away with no AI.

I definitely can hold more size and get enhanced training progress at 250-300mg, but you also feel more “turned up” on that dose (because things are indeed very much overdriven). You never feel quite as relaxed as when levels are lower. Androgens drive you to be more alert/to take action. Unfortunately, you cannot leave that in the gym.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I can't remember what region you're in, no LA Fitnesses? I think my LA F membership is like $25-35/month vs the local "gold" PF for like $25 but I have been crazy impressed by the weight rooms! I go to two here in the Tacoma region and they are phenomenal, I say this as a guy who normally hates chain gyms.



If you're really concerned about it, how about picking up some of those sparkling waters? I tend to grab 1 or 2 diet cokes and 1 or 2 gatorade zeros when I go golfing as a "healthy" and stimulant filled alternative to beer. but in actuality I probably have only those two diet sodas per week. oh, actually I probably have a hand full of sugar free redbulls too. I think one has sucralose and the other has aspartame so I'm diversifying my risks lol



I remember years ago one of the studies said it was much much higher than 28 a day, it was an insane amount of aspartame required to make you sick, although people tried to peg Michael J Fox's health issues to it. of course now, sucralose is public enemy #1



I'd only take that serious from someone who grows all their own food and lives off water.



I agree. someone very close to me who is a life long fitness minded individual, and refuses to use artificial sweeteners was diagnosed with cancer. Fidel castro smoked cigars for 80 years and lived into his 90s. My uncles co-worker dropped a heavy piece of wood on his toe, it swelled up and turned into cancer, he died. My co-workers mom slammed her tit into a cupboard one day, it bruised, swelled, became cancerous and she died. you can do everything right and still fail. our drinking water is tainted our produce is tainted the air we breathe is tainted. live life to the best of your ability and enjoy it.

My post wasn't about cancer tho lol

 

[rascal14]

oh that's fucked, I'm sorry man. that's a super rough age to have to figure out how to navigate it. Is it a hereditary ailment? I see you mentioned mom and wondered. I recall dad experiencing it around age 40, my self at 36, and my wife's ex was actually mid 30s-40 as well so I started to notice a trend in men facing this struggle between 35-40. although all three of those examples had massive changes to their lives at that time as well.

I wold say hereditary + the environment of growing up in an "anxious" househould (therapy taught me that lol)

It's all good, I will survive. I know what not to do, I have benzos for when its bad and know the danger of daily use so I refuse to do that. Just something else to work through!


Edit - to add, taking Tren at 500mg/wk at age 21-22 100% set my anxiety into a downward spiral. That is where I really learned what a panic attack felt like and that is how my attacks feel now. I believe I fully created this problem myself by using a drug I had no responsibility even thinking about using with how I looked, never planned on competing, etc. I got in over my head and did fine with orals and test only, said **** it, tren is the best of the best lets see what I can do. This is probably also what screwed my natural test levels.

To answer your original question. I am in Kansas City on the weekends (theres a couple local rec centers and 1-2 bigger commercial gyms about 35 minutes from my new house) but I am in Fayetteville, Arkansas during the week for work and there are NO gyms besides planet fitness within 40 minutes of me so its my really only option. The University of Arkansas has a rec center, but I don't think I can go there as a non-student. Plus it takes parking a mile away, then walking into the gym, etc. I did enough of that in college already. I don't need my 60 minute gym trip to take 120 minutes due to parking lol

 

[rascal14]

She gets anxious about going to sleep in fear she won't be able t fall asleep so then she is anxious and because of that can not fall asleep. Just vicious circles she gets in. Similar to having anxiety about having anxiety attacks. She is also Type 2 Bipolar, and getting her on meds for that and a mood stabilizer has been a godsend. I just think it is interesting people with those tendencies you mentioned seem to run along the same lines and experiences.

The sleep situation is what I often find myself in. Can't sleep > get anxious about not being able to sleep > panic attack > definitely no sleep.

Best thing in that scenario is I get up and walk the dogs outside for 20 minutes. Get out of the claustrophobic "Bedroom" into the open air of the earth and just do something different. Sometimes I don't have the energy or thought process if I'm too deep into a panic to think about that, then its pacing and racing and verge of tears because "wtf is going on with me I should be able to sleep, i've been sleeping just fine for 27 years"

Shits crazy sometimes. Lol

 

[rascal14]

Gear levels (and compound selection) absolutely can impact your anxiety levels.

I probably feel best on 150mg/wk (30mg administered with a slinpin 5 days per week). Great libido and energy with it broken up like that and I can get away with no AI.

I definitely can hold more size and get enhanced training progress at 250-300mg, but you also feel more “turned up” on that dose (because things are indeed very much overdriven). You never feel quite as relaxed as when levels are lower. Androgens drive you to be more alert/to take action. Unfortunately, you cannot leave that in the gym.

True and I keep saying I'll get my anxiety in check before upping the dose but I am inpatient.

After this "blast" I WILL be dropping to 150mg/wk no doubt about it. I rescheduled my TRT bloods for 2 months earlier so I can blast without concern there, then drop the dose and see how I feel. I suppose I wouldn't be "bodybuilding" (tough for me to call myself a bodybuilder when I look the way I do) if I was completely sane.

 

[rascal14]

More related to cutting, I'm still bloated as hell and the scale is not looking any better. Stopped the fiber because I hate seeing the scale go backwards right now, coach told me to relax and ride it out. I am still taking AOD, debating dropping that and going back to the basics of TRT and Carnitine only to take any and all questions out of the equation, but idk. The AOD has no reports of bloat unless it is in fact something different (I highly doubt, I trust he got authentic COAs - atleast as authentic as it gets with Janoshik)

Nevertheless, cardio this morning. Off day from weights as I'll be traveling so carbs are slightly lower. I taught myself to like mustard. I was using zero sugar bbq sauce on my meals, so unless mustard waited 12 days to bloat me, it should have only helped now that I don't use the extra 40 cals a day on bbq sauce.

Maybe I'll pick up some Bronkaid in Missouri when I head back and get back on the ECA train. That for sure made my anxiety worse, just a more heightened sense of tension all day long but things were moving down regularly on it.

It's just tough, I was getting burnt out before on the cutting and now that I seem to be moving backwards the motivation is going with it. I'm pushing through but every day its tougher and tougher. Just looking forward to the end, I have an entire month to attempt to get back below 190lbs, hopefully 185lbs. May crash my e2 to drop any water I can?? Who knows I may go off the rails and fast for an entire week. Maybe I'll go into a medically induced coma for a few days to reset my mind and body.

I'll be back home tonight since I have bloods and therapy tomorrow. (I live in Arkansas for work in a camper during the week for those who do not know) so I have 2 different scales, but they've seemed to be in balance the last several weeks. Scale 2 (camper) used to be 1-2lbs heavier, but I found out the right way to orient it to get them to read the same. I put them side by side at our old apartment and they read the same, so its the camper floor which causes it to be slightly off (or did). Regardless, noticeably bloated in the mirror and less vascular.

 

[GreenMachineX]

What is AOD?

 

[MrKleen73]

I agree with your coach, if you are in a deficit and doing what is needed follow the process and get out of your own head. Water weight is transient, and will drop quickly after you stop whatever is causing it. Now if you think their may be a health issue causing it then definitely look into it. Otherwise, creating a deficit results in fat loss whether the scale is moving right now or not, the fat is still burning in the background.

How much water weight have you actually gained?

 

[Dustin07]

To answer your original question. I am in Kansas City on the weekends (theres a couple local rec centers and 1-2 bigger commercial gyms about 35 minutes from my new house) but I am in Fayetteville, Arkansas during the week for work and there are NO gyms besides planet fitness within 40 minutes of me so its my really only option.

wild, I see what you mean! at least you DO have a PF available then. I recall years ago Seattle would constantly come up as the fittest city in the USA and I thought, really? One of the metrics they used was that we were the only city (or very few) with more gyms and fitness stores than fast food, lol. But looking at the obesity rate in fayetteville vs seattle, Seattles is like 50% lower so I guess maybe there is a connection there. I always took for granted that I can be picky with which gym I want to go to (and which membership I'm willing to pay for) cause we have so many options. I mean you can throw a rock and hit 10 power lifting or crossfit gyms with open lifting.

Best thing in that scenario is I get up and walk the dogs outside for 20 minutes. Get out of the claustrophobic "Bedroom" into the open air of the earth and just do something different. Sometimes I don't have the energy or thought process if I'm too deep into a panic to think about that, then its pacing and racing and verge of tears because "wtf is going on with me I should be able to sleep, i've been sleeping just fine for 27 years"

that's crazy man, I'm sorry it's such a struggle. My panic attacks were the exact opposite and would hit in the open spaces. I had one weekend where I basically couldn't leave my loft. I tried a few times but as soon as outside noises stimulated, the adrenaline rush would over take, it was crazy. Pretty sure only anger got me through it all, lol

 

[rascal14]

What is AOD?

Anti-Obesity Drug 9604. It is nearly the same thing as HGH Frag 176-191, just slightly different. Supposed to be all the fat loss benefits of GH with none of the sides. Supposedly. But Frag would be the closest relative.

 

[rascal14]

I agree with your coach, if you are in a deficit and doing what is needed follow the process and get out of your own head. Water weight is transient, and will drop quickly after you stop whatever is causing it. Now if you think their may be a health issue causing it then definitely look into it. Otherwise, creating a deficit results in fat loss whether the scale is moving right now or not, the fat is still burning in the background.

How much water weight have you actually gained?

It is a good point - the weights not magically appearing from calories because things have stayed consistent, it is a tough mental battle to see such good progress and then here at the end things go haywire lol

I got down as low as 188lbs 2 weeks ago, and now I'm hovering around 192 so about 4lbs I would say. Think I will skip my cheat meal this week, maybe its time I reduce the frequency. I almost always gain 2lbs the day after my cheat meal, but its gone plus some the following weekend so I have kept them in, because they definitely help keep me sane.

 

[MrKleen73]

that's crazy man, I'm sorry it's such a struggle. My panic attacks were the exact opposite and would hit in the open spaces. I had one weekend where I basically couldn't leave my loft. I tried a few times but as soon as outside noises stimulated, the adrenaline rush would over take, it was crazy. Pretty sure only anger got me through it all, lol

The bolded is how my anxiety tends to present, and holding it back is what would make it worse. I am lucky tho and don't often suffer from anxiety. I am too ADHD to focus on any one thing long enough to give myself anxiety about it. I had a bout for a while that was just presenting as rage and i had to get myself into therapy for a while. Work through why I was anxious and luckily for me it went away.

 

[Dustin07]

The bolded is how my anxiety tends to present, and holding it back is what would make it worse. I am lucky tho and don't often suffer from anxiety

I haven't had a legit attack in a few years now. I have felt them wanting to start but somehow have gained some control to temper them down. The last bad one I felt coming on postWO on the way home. texted my wife and told her I was 5 minutes from home and felt it coming on. She asked what she could do and I said I was gonna go lay down when I get home so... be patient with my anti social image. I made it to the floor in the bedroom, which somehow was more comforting than the bed lol. She basically patted my back like a baby (always helps), I passed out like I drank a fifth of bourbon. the attacks would knock me out for hours sometimes, absolutely exhausting the body.

But when they first started I was so worried about being on anxiety meds that I would turn on the angriest rock I could find, as loud as I could any time an attack would hit and I'd try to force myself to fight vs flight type mentality. for me, the anxiety attacks were an absolutely insane amount of ridiculous "fear" type feelings, so I tried to counter it with anger. I couldn't tell you if I "outgrew" them or "beat" them. but either way, that's what I did lol.

 

[MrKleen73]

It is a good point - the weights not magically appearing from calories because things have stayed consistent, it is a tough mental battle to see such good progress and then here at the end things go haywire lol

I got down as low as 188lbs 2 weeks ago, and now I'm hovering around 192 so about 4lbs I would say. Think I will skip my cheat meal this week, maybe its time I reduce the frequency. I almost always gain 2lbs the day after my cheat meal, but its gone plus some the following weekend so I have kept them in, because they definitely help keep me sane.

I just looked it up and the first site I found explains the issue.

Aod 9604 Peptide Aod 9604 Weight Loss, Side Effects, Before And After Results

AOD 9604 is a peptide fragment derived from human growth hormone (HGH). It stands for "Anti-Obesity Drug 9604." It was initially created as a potential treatment for obesity and weight loss.

www.outlookindia.com

"The good news is that these side effects are usually mild to moderate. The most common ones include headaches, indigestion, and swelling. You might also feel pain or discomfort at the injection site, but that's normal and should go away over time. "