CK/Anabolic Diet mega thread

[steelhorse]

is this kind of diet safe

 

[ThomasRivera]

is this kind of diet safe

Not only is it safe it can improve health.

 

[Rugger]

I've kinda hit a stall with progress. I was up around 2600 calories thinking I would still cut fat but I don't seem to be. I'm bringing it back down to around 2200-2300 to see what happens. Any ideas for me?

 

[ThomasRivera]

A few tips off of the top of my head.

Go with the calorie reduction
Consider the effectiveness of your cardio routine, or add one if you are not currently doing one.
Refine your carbload, make it as efficient as possible, cut out unnecessary things.

 

[ShadowFury]

For Rugger, would it be at all helpful to stagger cals for a few days? Like up by 200, then down by 100, up by 300, down by 100, etc... Just to shock his body some, then he could go back norm again or would that work at all?

 

[ThomasRivera]

^^^ Yes.

 

[ThomasRivera]

The idea is that the body during lower calorie days will start to swing hormones in the way of slowing down metabolism. Having days above or even at your basic requirement levels will shift that metabolic rate. It's not really to shock the body at all, it keeps the body closer to a stable metabolic state.

 

[wti66stang]

While on this diet, could I use ON Pro Complex to get more protein? It has 60 g of protein, 1 gram of fat, and 2 grams of carbs if you dont count the fiber

 

[ThomasRivera]

While on this diet, could I use ON Pro Complex to get more protein? It has 60 g of protein, 1 gram of fat, and 2 grams of carbs if you dont count the fiber

You could. But buying meat be a little more cost efficient and give you the mix of fats that you need with the diet.

 

[Rugger]

What kinda veggies do you guys usually incorporate? How do you make them taste decent without jackin carbs up?

 

[ThomasRivera]

^^^

Right now im bouncing between lettuce, broccoli and spinach. Broccoli and spinach being the higher fiber of the three. I usually cook the broccoli or spinach right after I cook any sort of meat, I cook them in the rendered fat with garlic powder, salt and red pepper flakes, sometimes I use a steak seasoning.

 

[powerbychoice]

ok, so I just read this entire thing. And learned a lot. I have a couple of questions still.
but first stats: BW 165, bf ~10% 5'5"

I am in preparation for my next powerlifting meet, which is this weekend, and am on my 3rd week of this diet.

I made it 13 days without carbs, and then had the worst headache I have ever had, almost couldn't drive. This headache lasted all day, and did not go away till I broke down and ate 3 double cheese burgers(only thing I could think about eating, which is disturbing) Is this common?

Also, my cals are like 3000 which seems high compared to others on here, should I decrease these?

Also, does anyone have experience with this diet and powerlifting? Just curious because it seems like an awesome lifestyle change.

thanks for posting all the info

 

[ThomasRivera]

You aren't supposed to go 0 carb. It's low, 20 ish. I believe that powerlifting has a different protocol than bodybuilding, read through this book.

 

[powerbychoice]

actually it was around 36, all from milk. but low carb for 13 days. I will read that, thanks for the link.

 

[ThomasRivera]

actually it was around 36, all from milk. but low carb for 13 days. I will read that, thanks for the link.

Thats not too bad then. Your going to want to read through the book, powerlifting will probably have different dynamics than bodybuilding.

 

[pmiller383]

Well guys I finally started the Anabolic Diet after months of interest and research. (I didn't have any oatmeal in the house so I was like F*ck it I am starting the AD today lol)
Anyways here is my questions for you experienced guys.
1. I follow a basic Westside template and I was planning on doing my Max Effort legs the morning of my carb ups(friday), then my max effort upper the day after my carb up(sunday). The other workouts are a DE legs on monday which I think I should still be pretty carb loaded for, and a DE upper on wednesday. I was thinking about using a high dose of glutamine and glycine with my peptopro after my workout on Wednesday to get a little glycogen in the tank for friday without having a carb spike. I was curious if anyone has used a protocol like this, or even used the glutamine/glycine Post workout at all?
2) would anyone be interested if I started a log of the AD and powerlifting? I know most people go on it for recomp but I mainly just want to up my strength without a giant carb bloat all of the time.
Right now I am following the 12 day adaption phase strictly, and don't plan on messing with the basic template until early december (thats when I would add the Glycine/Glutamine) I am shotting for just under 4000kcal's but found it to be a little harder than I thought, I got 2,500 on my first day and will probably get about 3500 today.

 

[scotty2]

I would subscribe to the AD/powerlifting thread, as I plan on getting to this in a couple months after my recomp. is finished.

 

[Rugger]

Well guys I finally started the Anabolic Diet after months of interest and research. (I didn't have any oatmeal in the house so I was like F*ck it I am starting the AD today lol)
Anyways here is my questions for you experienced guys.
1. I follow a basic Westside template and I was planning on doing my Max Effort legs the morning of my carb ups(friday), then my max effort upper the day after my carb up(sunday). The other workouts are a DE legs on monday which I think I should still be pretty carb loaded for, and a DE upper on wednesday. I was thinking about using a high dose of glutamine and glycine with my peptopro after my workout on Wednesday to get a little glycogen in the tank for friday without having a carb spike. I was curious if anyone has used a protocol like this, or even used the glutamine/glycine Post workout at all?
2) would anyone be interested if I started a log of the AD and powerlifting? I know most people go on it for recomp but I mainly just want to up my strength without a giant carb bloat all of the time.
Right now I am following the 12 day adaption phase strictly, and don't plan on messing with the basic template until early december (thats when I would add the Glycine/Glutamine) I am shotting for just under 4000kcal's but found it to be a little harder than I thought, I got 2,500 on my first day and will probably get about 3500 today.

See how you feel after a week or two on the diet. Strength decline varies from person to person. A lot of guys complain about getting weak, fatigued, but I don't notice any difference whatsoever. My strength remains, I feel great and have plenty of energy.

And yes, getting a lot of calories on AD is very difficult! There are some key foods that can pump you full of calories, though. Some of them: peanuts, bratwurst, cheeses, seeds, PEPPERONI and SAUSAGE! and obviously straight beef. I'm eating 3700 calories but it isn't that much food. I could probably come close to fitting it all on one plate :icon_lol:

 

[ThomasRivera]

I'd like to see a thread like that.

Ground Beef is your best friend. 100 grams of 80/20 beef have 20 grams of fat and 17 grams of protein. Thats almost 1200 calories per a pound (if you get all the fat from the pan).

You'll be able to do it, it's hard at first then after a while you'll be shoveling it down with no problem. I'll be reading the powerlifting AD diet book tonight.

 

[Rugger]

I'd like to see a thread like that.

Ground Beef is your best friend. 100 grams of 80/20 beef have 20 grams of fat and 17 grams of protein. Thats almost 1200 calories per a pound (if you get all the fat from the pan).

You'll be able to do it, it's hard at first then after a while you'll be shoveling it down with no problem. I'll be reading the powerlifting AD diet book tonight.

I still haven't been able to find 80/20 and I'm still reeling from trying to figure out how many calories are in my daily half pound serving taking into account fat lost in the cooking process

 

[ThomasRivera]

See how you feel after a week or two on the diet. Strength decline varies from person to person. A lot of guys complain about getting weak, fatigued, but I don't notice any difference whatsoever. My strength remains, I feel great and have plenty of energy.

And yes, getting a lot of calories on AD is very difficult! There are some key foods that can pump you full of calories, though. Some of them: peanuts, bratwurst, cheeses, seeds, PEPPERONI and SAUSAGE! and obviously straight beef. I'm eating 3700 calories but it isn't that much food. I could probably come close to fitting it all on one plate :icon_lol:

Pepperoni is probably one of my favorite things to eat on any CKD type diet. Pop them in the microwave for a few seconds and they crisp up.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I still haven't been able to find 80/20 and I'm still reeling from trying to figure out how many calories are in my daily half pound serving taking into account fat lost in the cooking process

Your on 85/15 right?

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beef-products/6201/2

Dude, im telling you, eat the fat. Use the fat left in the pan.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Pepperoni is probably one of my favorite things to eat on any CKD type diet. Pop them in the microwave for a few seconds and they crisp up.

Mmmm....haven't tried microwaving pepperoni before, but it sounds really good. I've only ate them raw.

:food:

 

[ThomasRivera]

Mmmm....haven't tried microwaving pepperoni before, but it sounds really good. I've only ate them raw.

:food:

Gotta try it out man. It's like they came off of a pizza, really crispy, only downside is that there is fat run off, but the fat can be used to cook other things, like eggs.

 

[Rugger]

Your on 85/15 right?

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/beef-products/6201/2

Dude, im telling you, eat the fat. Use the fat left in the pan.

Beef is the last meal of the day for me. I have nothing to use the fat with. What about cooking like 3 pounds in a crock pot? How much would that lose?

 

[pmiller383]

Trust me, I will get the 4000+ kcals I need, just didn't have enough food ready for one the go stuff like work. I have been pounding eggs today and that seems to keep the calories up without to much fill.
I will start a log up and see how it goes for me. I hoping to get my shirted bench into the 500's this training cycle, which would be pretty decent for a 220...

 

[ThomasRivera]

Either move some carb food up, use one egg after you cook the beef, or take the beef fat in a shot. Hamburgers would probably cook out less of the fat. Don't cook the beef on too high heat.

 

[ThomasRivera]

You could also strain out the beef fat, put it in a container, seal it tight, and throw it in the freezer.

 

[Esox Express]

I've found summer sausage to be a great food for this diet. I eat it all the time.

2 oz. = 17g Fat (7g Saturated)
40mg Cholesterol
<1g carbs
9g Protein

I started this deit in mid-July and i'm up exactly 10 pounds. I love this diet so much..... i don't want to come off. It's going to be tough.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Why get off ever? You can bulk, maintain or cut on this diet. I don't see a reason to ever get off as of now.

 

[Esox Express]

My soreness has become unbearable. I've been eating nearly 4000 cals for the last 2 weeks (well above my maintenance)around a 80/20 ratio and I will still be sore to the point where any type of movement is painful.... some of the worst soreness I have ever had in my life. I can't keep doing this unless I figure out the problem. Any Ideas?

EDIT: these are all the supps I'm taking:
ON or ATW Whey
Creatine Mono 10g/day
Fish oil 25g/day
Xtend 6 scoops/day (2 pre-workout, 2 throughout the day, 2 before bed)
Coleus Foeskohlii 20% ~500mg/day
1-Carboxy 1.6g before bed
GMS 1tsp Pre-workout
1g Cissus Pre-Workout
Beta Alanine 1-2g Pre Workout
1,3 Dimethylamylamine 25mg pre-workout
Taurine ~2g/day
ADAM
ZMA

 

[ThomasRivera]

What is your training like?
What is your macro count like?

 

[Esox Express]

What is your training like?
What is your macro count like?

The only time I get REALLY sore is on my legs day, which consists only of Squat, Power cleans, and Snatch (5X5)

I do a three day split, mon/wed/fri ... with my other two days being chest/triceps and biceps/lats/shoulders.

Like i said, I was at about 3800 calories, at an 80/20 fat/protein ratio which breaks down to 190g Protein, 337g Fat, which is well above maintenance for me, being 5'6" 155lbs.

I'm telling you man, I have NEVER been this sore in the 5 years I've been lifting... and I don't know how much more food I can eat. I haven't really had much trouble with soreness so far on this diet, but it seems to be getting worse and worse every week. (I've been doing it since July).

 

[ThomasRivera]

Personally I would bump the protein up a little.

But it should be something to do with your training rather than the diet. Are you using periodization on your training or are you just going heavy each week?

 

[Rugger]

The only time I get REALLY sore is on my legs day, which consists only of Squat, Power cleans, and Snatch (5X5)

I do a three day split, mon/wed/fri ... with my other two days being chest/triceps and biceps/lats/shoulders.

Like i said, I was at about 3800 calories, at an 80/20 fat/protein ratio which breaks down to 190g Protein, 337g Fat, which is well above maintenance for me, being 5'6" 155lbs.

I'm telling you man, I have NEVER been this sore in the 5 years I've been lifting... and I don't know how much more food I can eat. I haven't really had much trouble with soreness so far on this diet, but it seems to be getting worse and worse every week. (I've been doing it since July).

It will get better. The less cushion in the muscle the more the stretch.

 

[Esox Express]

Personally I would bump the protein up a little.

But it should be something to do with your training rather than the diet. Are you using periodization on your training or are you just going heavy each week?

I've been doing 5X5 for my squats every week, cleans and snatch are usually 3 sets of 8. I don't really change that up..... should I do 3 or 4 sets of ten on my squats every other week, or something like that?

It will get better. The less cushion in the muscle the more the stretch.

But then why is it getting worse? I haven't had trouble adapting to this diet until now, 3 1/2 months in.

 

[ThomasRivera]

If you look up periodization of training you'll find that there are alot of people that go in cycles of training and usually end up doing a week of 60%1rm as active recovery from going heavy a lot.

 

[RobInKuwait]

But then why is it getting worse? I haven't had trouble adapting to this diet until now, 3 1/2 months in.

It could be a mineral deficiency. Maybe try some Poseidon? Do you take a multivitamin/mineral? Also, taking vitamin C tabs may be beneficial.

 

[Rugger]

I've been doing 5X5 for my squats every week, cleans and snatch are usually 3 sets of 8. I don't really change that up..... should I do 3 or 4 sets of ten on my squats every other week, or something like that?




But then why is it getting worse? I haven't had trouble adapting to this diet until now, 3 1/2 months in.

Oh, I donno then. I thought you had just started.

 

[pmiller383]

Deload a bit man, change your exercises up for the next couple weeks so that you are not taxing your CNS so much. Squatting and then do high rep olympic lifts are going to beat you down after a while. Your body is starting to regress most likely because you are over taxing yourself and therefore are not recovering properly. I bet even if you just dropped the oly stuff for a couple weeks and did more squat volume with less intensity (higher reps with less weight) you would feel better.

 

[Esox Express]

OK cool, thanks for the help guys

 

[TOYFORDOLET]

What are your guys' thoughts on plain yogurt? It supposedly only has ~5g carbs per cup from probiotic lactose consumption, though labels claim something like 17g.

 

[Rugger]

What are your guys' thoughts on plain yogurt? It supposedly only has ~5g carbs per cup from probiotic lactose consumption, though labels claim something like 17g.

Skip it

 

[ThomasRivera]

I'd probably skip the yogurt too.

 

[TOYFORDOLET]

Well I miss my yogurt so I got some agave sweetened nonfat vanilla yogurt for my carb up.:twisted:

 

[ThomasRivera]

Sounds good. For my carb up i'm going bat**** insane. First carb up in a while, i'm looking more defined and I can't wait to see what the carb up does for my vascularity.

 

[LuckyKid57]

Holla! Thanks to everyone writing up all this wonderful information on this thread. To anyone who is interested, I am starting my first 5 days of >30 carbs tomorrow. The Log is entitled "Lucky's Recomp Log," so feel free to sub and kick my ass. It is a LR/DCP Anabolic Diet log, so we will see whuddup...

 

[bigzach1234]

how many days after starting ckd do i carb up.. i am five days in right now.. i have heard that once u first start u should go twelve days before the carb up?? thoughts?

 

[ThomasRivera]

Go 12 when you start out, 5 is ok, 12 is better.

The day for the carb up I would do a depletion workout before you get in any carbs.

 

[Rugger]

Did you guys see the dude on IntenseMuscle who lost something like 25 pounds in 3 days after a carb up? He loaded with something like 4k carbs. He posted his refeed diet and it was unbelievable. Here it is:

8 TUBS SUGAR FREE DRINK MIX
1 CONTAINER LOW FAT PB
1 POUND CAKE
1 BOX REESE'S CEREAL
1 BOX LUCKY CHARMS
3.5QT LOW FAT VANILLA ICE CREAM
10 LOW FAT WAFFLES + 13TBSP LIGHT SYRUP
6 FRUIT FILLED PANCAKES
8 SERVINGS PUDDING MIX (CHOCOLATE AND VANILLA)
1 CONTAINER FAT FREE WHIPPED CREAM
3/5 BOTTLE CHOCOLATE SYRUP
1 PACK SKITTLES GUM
1 LOW FAT PIZZA
1 LOW FAT CHOCOLATE CAKE
1 ANGEL FOOD CAKE
4 BAGELS + 5TBSP FAT FREE CREAM CHEESE + 5TBSP BOYSENBERRY JAM
18 STRAWBERRY BARS
6 BANANA MOON PIES
10 CUPS FAT FREE LACTOSE FREE MILK