CK/Anabolic Diet mega thread

[RobInKuwait]

Have any of you guys tried leucine on the day following your carb-up?

After a fairly intense carb-up, I started the next day with three doses of 10g leucine and 100mg na-r-ala. I took it every two hours until I finished the last dose. When I finished, I had that nasty ketosis taste in my mouth. Won't seem to go away; maybe its a sign that the leucine/na-r-ala worked.

I've tried k-r-ala and ala and they definitely put me into ketosis. I use BCAAs, would plain leucine have any added benefits?

 

[ThomasRivera]

You have to watch which BCAA's you get. There are some amino acids that are preferentially ketogenic and glucogenic. Valine I believe is a glucogenic amino acid.

You also have to keep in mind the production of ketones during ketosis is not that important. The presence of ketones is an idicator of ketosis but it's not important, what is important is the burning of FFA's during ketosis. Leuicine is a ketogenic amino acid.

MCT's are ketogenic, coconut oil would probably get you the same taste in your mouth.

 

[bigzach1234]

yea i heard thats the new thing ...taking leucine.. to enter ketosis quicker.. i mean it seems safer then insulin

 

[RobInKuwait]

I know we've talked about calorie cycling at some point, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, this is the plan I've been doing on my cut for the last couple of weeks. I haven't been focusing on macros, just adjusting my calories daily. I included a sample of Monday's macros just so people get an idea about the ratios I shoot for on the low cal days. Let me know what you all think.

Monday: 1800 calories (217 protein, 96 fat, 26 carb, 18 fiber).
4x shake: 1.5 scoop protein, 3 eggs, 8 fish oil caps, 2 tbsp flaxseed powder (only 2/4 shakes with flax)

Tuesday: 2100 calories
2x shake, 2 chix breast/half avocado meals

Wednesday: 2100 calories (same as tuesday)

Thursday: 3000 calories
3x shake, 1 massive carb up meal. Eat huge meal of pasta, breads ect.

Friday: 1800 calories (same as monday)

Saturday: 5000 calories
2x shake, begin carb up in evening after depletion workout.

Sunday: 5000-6000 calories
Continue with carb up through EOD Sunday. I don't really look too deep into the carb ups, mainly just focus on taking in plenty carbs and calories.

 

[ThomasRivera]

yea i heard thats the new thing ...taking leucine.. to enter ketosis quicker.. i mean it seems safer then insulin

Taking slin to get into ketosis is in my opinion an unnecessary and dangerous practice.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I know we've talked about calorie cycling at some point, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, this is the plan I've been doing on my cut for the last couple of weeks. I haven't been focusing on macros, just adjusting my calories daily. I included a sample of Monday's macros just so people get an idea about the ratios I shoot for on the low cal days. Let me know what you all think.

Monday: 1800 calories (217 protein, 96 fat, 26 carb, 18 fiber).
4x shake: 1.5 scoop protein, 3 eggs, 8 fish oil caps, 2 tbsp flaxseed powder (only 2/4 shakes with flax)

Tuesday: 2100 calories
2x shake, 2 chix breast/half avocado meals

Wednesday: 2100 calories (same as tuesday)

Thursday: 3000 calories
3x shake, 1 massive carb up meal. Eat huge meal of pasta, breads ect.

Friday: 1800 calories (same as monday)

Saturday: 5000 calories
2x shake, begin carb up in evening after depletion workout.

Sunday: 5000-6000 calories
Continue with carb up through EOD Sunday. I don't really look too deep into the carb ups, mainly just focus on taking in plenty carbs and calories.

I wouldn't take the carb up meal on thursday with your carb load on saturday and sunday. In a longer time line on ketosis say, 10 days low carb 2 days carb load It would be a good idea, but with 5 days I don't think a massive carb meal is the best idea.

 

[RobInKuwait]

I wouldn't take the carb up meal on thursday with your carb load on saturday and sunday. In a longer time line on ketosis say, 10 days low carb 2 days carb load It would be a good idea, but with 5 days I don't think a massive carb meal is the best idea.

Roger. What about a higher calorie non-carb day on Wed or Thurs. Say 3000 while staying keto?

 

[RobInKuwait]

How does this look?

Monday: 1800 calories (217 protein, 96 fat, 26 carb, 18 fiber).
4x shake: 1.5 scoop protein, 3 eggs, 8 fish oil caps, 2 tbsp flaxseed powder (only 2/4 shakes with flax)

Tuesday: 2100 calories
2x shake, 2 chix breast/half avocado meals

Wednesday: 3500 calories
Sausage, steak, cheese. Pretty much whatever keto food strike my fancy.

Thursday: 1800 calories....same as Monday
4x shake

Friday: 2100 calories (same as Tuesday)

Saturday: 4000 calories
2x shake, Begin carb up in evening at approximately 5pm after depletion workout.

Sunday: 6000 calories
Continue with carb up through EOD Sunday. I don't really look too deep into the carb ups, mainly just focus on taking in plenty of carbs and calories.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Roger. What about a higher calorie non-carb day on Wed or Thurs. Say 3000 while staying keto?

Yup, that works.

 

[TexasTitan]

Before I go further, can someone answer me this...

Would a variation on these diets, one designed for bulking be generally more effective than a regular carb intensive diet? Im not that familiar with them frankly, and Im just wondering if this is something that would be an improvement versus my diet now, lots of carbs, protein..more or less slamming down as much healthy and lean food I can. Obviously, its relative to the person, but say perhaps its more beneficial when set up for someone to lose weight rather than gain. I guess, besides being possible, is it a step up results wise potentially. Im having a bitch of a time wording this..

 

[RobInKuwait]

Before I go further, can someone answer me this...

Would a variation on these diets, one designed for bulking be generally more effective than a regular carb intensive diet? Im not that familiar with them frankly, and Im just wondering if this is something that would be an improvement versus my diet now, lots of carbs, protein..more or less slamming down as much healthy and lean food I can. Obviously, its relative to the person, but say perhaps its more beneficial when set up for someone to lose weight rather than gain. I guess, besides being possible, is it a step up results wise potentially. Im having a bitch of a time wording this..

I think it varies from person to person. My body responds very well to this diet. I stopped getting gas during the week, feel more alert and can think better, and find myself less hungry.

I think once your acclimated to this diet, you can basically just plug and play with calories to try and get the results you want, be it cutting or bulking.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Before I go further, can someone answer me this...

Would a variation on these diets, one designed for bulking be generally more effective than a regular carb intensive diet? Im not that familiar with them frankly, and Im just wondering if this is something that would be an improvement versus my diet now, lots of carbs, protein..more or less slamming down as much healthy and lean food I can. Obviously, its relative to the person, but say perhaps its more beneficial when set up for someone to lose weight rather than gain. I guess, besides being possible, is it a step up results wise potentially. Im having a bitch of a time wording this..

I find it easier to bulk using a low carb diet than a high carb diet. Performance wise, it depends on how you react to the diet. Some people do bad on the diet because they mentally set themselves up for failure when they think "low carb, lower endurance and performance"

 

[TexasTitan]

I think it varies from person to person. My body responds very well to this diet. I stopped getting gas during the week, feel more alert and can think better, and find myself less hungry.

I think once your acclimated to this diet, you can basically just plug and play with calories to try and get the results you want, be it cutting or bulking.

Way to perfectly keep me on the fence...haha. Damn. I guess I gain very well regardless, but my job makes it very hard to keep a high carb intake, or even just intake in general. I mean, Im getting great results now but Im just wondering if I went into something like this, what my results would be...obviously we cant know but I guess Im trying to find out if this is a better choice or just a "Well you can, it isnt that much better for bulking though."

 

[TexasTitan]

I find it easier to bulk using a low carb diet than a high carb diet. Performance wise, it depends on how you react to the diet. Some people do bad on the diet because they mentally set themselves up for failure when they think "low carb, lower endurance and performance"

Well I used to eat about 1000 calories a day with no carbs when I was training for golden gloves...that was pretty miserable but I manage to dig in those times. Training 5 hours in a sweat suit everyday + that + mech engineering courses = pretty miserable...

I guess I love the idea of being able to pack on lots of just food in without carbs getting in the way (filling). I work at a BBQ so I have access to lots of meat at low prices. I guess Im wondering how it stacks up against a "regular" diet and how bulking on it goes. The only real resource I found were some ghetto articles on bb.com.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Well diet wise it is easier, your body preferentially uses fat for energy, you can have a few big meals a day rather than the rhetoric of 6-8. You could bulk, even at 5000 calories with what, 4 meals of 1 pound of meat and vegetables if you wanted.

 

[RobInKuwait]

The only real resource I found were some ghetto articles on bb.com.

This should help.

 

[TexasTitan]

Well diet wise it is easier, your body preferentially uses fat for energy, you can have a few big meals a day rather than the rhetoric of 6-8. You could bulk, even at 5000 calories with what, 4 meals of 1 pound of meat and vegetables if you wanted.

Sounds...beautiful.

Robinkuwait, thanks for the pdf. Ill read it and be back in the morning. My melatonin is kicking in. Im guessing youre in a service, why else would someone go to kuwait.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Im guessing youre in a service, why else would someone go to kuwait.

Just in the Guard now. I was in Kuwait like 4 years ago when i was still active duty. Its kind of stupid to name yourself off of a place you'll only be at for a year. Oh well.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Sounds...beautiful.

Robinkuwait, thanks for the pdf. Ill read it and be back in the morning. My melatonin is kicking in. Im guessing youre in a service, why else would someone go to kuwait.

That's one, if not the best book to read on the subject. Make sure you get your fiber in, you'll regret it otherwise.

 

[TexasTitan]

Just in the Guard now. I was in Kuwait like 4 years ago when i was still active duty. Its kind of stupid to name yourself off of a place you'll only be at for a year. Oh well.

Ah. I wanted to serve but color deficiency ruled me out of anything that interested me.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I mean, Im getting great results now

Then continue doing what you are doing.. I know if i was getting great results, i would stick to it..

 

[RobInKuwait]

Ah. I wanted to serve but color deficiency ruled me out of anything that interested me.

They're stupid for screening people out on BS so much. If you're in MD, I can help you get in the Guard if you want.

 

[TexasTitan]

Then continue doing what you are doing.. I know if i was getting great results, i would stick to it..

Im not trying to change over for the sake of changing over. Its mostly because of my job. I will be showing up at 8 and working till 8 or later everyday for about 5 months. I work on a staff for a representative so its non stop because Texas has session, or when they pass bills every 2 years. So its ape **** crazy for that time, and diet like this would give me more freedom and whatnot during that time. Hopefully, my boss gets speaker of the house which would guaruntee me into a lobbying job after session. :thumbsup:

They're stupid for screening people out on BS so much. If you're in MD, I can help you get in the Guard if you want.

Im in Texas, hense the name, but thanks. Ive pretty much put it all to rest at this point. Sad because my best friend is in the Navy and going out to BUD/S soon. Im reading that PDF now, good ****. Ill post when Im done.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Im not trying to change over for the sake of changing over. Its mostly because of my job. I will be showing up at 8 and working till 8 or later everyday for about 5 months. I work on a staff for a representative so its non stop because Texas has session, or when they pass bills every 2 years. So its ape **** crazy for that time, and diet like this would give me more freedom and whatnot during that time. Hopefully, my boss gets speaker of the house which would guaruntee me into a lobbying job after session. :thumbsup:



Im in Texas, hense the name, but thanks. Ive pretty much put it all to rest at this point. Sad because my best friend is in the Navy and going out to BUD/S soon. Im reading that PDF now, good ****. Ill post when Im done.

Whats the price for half of a cow? Or a whole cow?

^^^> This is not a joke, I really want to know if you know.

 

[TexasTitan]

Whats the price for half of a cow? Or a whole cow?

^^^> This is not a joke, I really want to know if you know.

Its a lot. Unless you have a freezer or something, its not practical. It does save you some however. I work at a BBQ on the weekends so cheap meat is not hard to come by.:thumbsup:

Or were you looking for numbers, it varies by place. Off the top of my head, give or take 1200, meat only? Im not sure really, Ive never looked especially into it. Probably higher actually..maybe 2000+. I have no idea. My grandmother sold our ranch without telling anyone when I was little, all our cattle and whatnot are a long lost memory. But this wednesday, me and some family are going to look at land.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Its a lot. Unless you have a freezer or something, its not practical. It does save you some however. I work at a BBQ on the weekends so cheap meat is not hard to come by.:thumbsup:

Or were you looking for numbers, it varies by place. Off the top of my head, give or take 1200, meat only? Im not sure really, Ive never looked especially into it. Probably higher actually..maybe 2000+. I have no idea. My grandmother sold our ranch without telling anyone when I was little, all our cattle and whatnot are a long lost memory. But this wednesday, me and some family are going to look at land.

I would learn how to do butchery just to buy meat in bulk like that.

 

[Kc2554]

This should help.

Oh wow..is this the whole text?

I searched everywhere for this, but most the online copies were more money than I wanted to shell out...

 

[Kc2554]

yea i heard thats the new thing ...taking leucine.. to enter ketosis quicker.. i mean it seems safer then insulin

How does Leucine help one enter Ketosis quicker?

 

[ThomasRivera]

How does Leucine help one enter Ketosis quicker?

Leucine is a ketogenic amino acid and has documented effects on ketosis/ketone levels. Amino acids can fall into ketogenic, glucogenic or combined categories. Raised levels of ketones could possibly boost the speed of acheiving ketosis.

 

[RobInKuwait]

Leucine is a ketogenic amino acid and has documented effects on ketosis/ketone levels. Amino acids can fall into ketogenic, glucogenic or combined categories. Raised levels of ketones could possibly boost the speed of acheiving ketosis.

What kind are the rest of the BCAAs? Is there any downside to supplementing with large amounts of BCAAs for ketosis?

 

[ThomasRivera]

What kind are the rest of the BCAAs? Is there any downside to supplementing with large amounts of BCAAs for ketosis?

Leucine ketogenic, isoleucine can go either way, valine is glucogenic. Aside from the initial stages of ketosis, somewhere around the first three weeks of the diets I don't see any benefits for trying to boost ketones. While the diets are based around ketosis, its important to keep in mind ketosis is a side effect from the main action your looking for, the utilization of FFA's.

So you have somewhere around 100 grams of glucose required to fuel the brain, up to 70 percent of that can be met by ketones. Only other parts of the body that will use ketones are the CNS and the heart I believe. Everything else will function almost exclusively off of free fatty acids.

Only downside I could see is wasting money and potentially turning over too much glucose.

Here is a study, all though done on a goat.

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/47/10/1086

Basically mentions that valine causes an antiketogenic and glucogenic response.

 

[WittyName]

This being said leads me to believe that supplementing with leucine and lysine would be the way to go, when doing any ckd style diet. Correct?
What determines whether or not an ammino becomes glucogenic or ketogenic?

 

[ThomasRivera]

This being said leads me to believe that supplementing with leucine and lysine would be the way to go, when doing any ckd style diet. Correct?
What determines whether or not an ammino becomes glucogenic or ketogenic?

Particular structure of the amino acid.

Supplementing with ketogenic enhancing anything during the first few weeks of a CKD diet would be a boost. But I want to stress, even though it's called a cyclic ketogenic diet, ketones don't turn out to be the main source of energy for the body. The brain can't use fat as a source of energy, the muscles will. For example for a man that requires 2500 calories a day.

Brain: 100 grams of glucose a day
Body: Everything else

The brain at around 3 weeks will derive up to 75 percent of all it's requirements for glucose in ketones. The body will shift from using ketones over the three week period to using FFA's. Increasing the production of ketones on a ketogenic diet is alright to start it off, but then after a 3 week period it looks like a fat burner would be the preferential choice.

 

[WittyName]

Excellent thank you for the response. I have always been a heavy believer in BCAA's usage (xtend, xcell and now BC+EAA), I had no idea that Valine had a glucogenic response.
How do you feel about the addition of ALA? I take it daily but am thinking of upping my dosages on refeed days.
FWIW CKD/AD is the most effective eating strategy I have ever employed.

 

[ThomasRivera]

No problem at all.

ALA would be effective on carb ups, increases insulin sensitivity, shuttles out glucose. I would see it as a good staple on a refeed.

 

[pitching101]

Hey guys, I just spent like the last 2 days reading everything about this diet. Can you guys confirm this is a good diet for the low carb portion:

5 whole eggs
Bacon
Cheese
Sausage

8 oz. 90/10 hamburger
Bacon
Cheese
Pecans

50 gram whey protein shake
Olive oil

6 oz. chicken
Shots of Extra Virgin Olive Oil
Snap Peas

8 oz. 90/10 hamburger
Bacon
Cheese
Walnuts
Snap Peas

*I want to get this part down before I try and make a meal plan for the more complicated carb up

 

[pitching101]

I read not to eat nitrites while on the keto diet, or basically every. So what type of bacon and sausage does everyone buy? All the packaged stuff in the stores have nitrites and I really want some bacon!

 

[Esox Express]

I don't know about Nitrites..... I eat bacon and sausage all the time though for what it's worth, and I'm doing fine.

Your list of food looks real good, without knowing the total calories.

 

[AMTorres]

A test-freeing supplement such as divanil is great on this diet. The nature of this diet will raise your testosterone levels so you will have more to free up. The type of supplements I would avoid on this diet are just basically strong stimulants as this can put your hormones out of wack.

So, stimulant fat burners are a bad idea on this even if our whole point is to cut? I was thinking about taking recreate 2-3 weeks into my diet

 

[Rugger]

I have been off ckd for 2.5 weeks.
I will be going back into it hardcore tomorrow morning to hopefully get down to 7% eventually. Not sure how I'll refeed. Probably not much more than 1 or 2 carb meals on the weekend. I don't lose strength on ckd so it's nice.

I might log, who knows. Keep your eyes peeled.

 

[AaronFL]

How does this look for the Anabolic Diet? I'm going to be cutting with that many calories. Thanks!

 

[AaronFL]

Here are the macros:

 

[AMTorres]

It looks good Aaron, but what are your target macros for this?

 

[AaronFL]

I'm shooting for 60/35/5. I'll adjust the food quantities a bit over the next couple of days to hit that as close as possible. I just wanted to check with you guys to see if my food selections are appropriate.

Thanks!

 

[AMTorres]

It looks good, how many calories overall are you shooting for and how many grams of fat, carbs, and protein?

 

[AaronFL]

My maintenance calories seems to be around 2400 calories. So, I'm just going to stick with around that many calories for the first couple of weeks and then adjust from there. That calculates to 160g Fat 210g Protein 30g Carbs.

 

[AMTorres]

Where did you come up with those numbers at?

 

[WittyName]

I read not to eat nitrites while on the keto diet, or basically every. So what type of bacon and sausage does everyone buy? All the packaged stuff in the stores have nitrites and I really want some bacon!

Look for organic or all natural.

 

[JudoJosh]

sorry if this has been asked earlier but I did a search and didnt really find an answer... On the anabolic diet is it necessary to do a depletition workout before your 2 carb days?? I see with CKD it is recomended but not sure as far as the AD if it is or not, the book didnt really specify.. also I have seen with the CKD diet ur 2 carbs day are soupposed to be sugar/white carbs on first day and complex carbs second day and with both days low fat.. is this true for anabolic? I remember the book saying something like anything goes on these days...

thanks for clearing this up.. I am sure low fat and a depletition workout wouldnt hurt and if anything help with the weight loss but was just wondering if was a part of the AD

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Simple answer is NO.. I have never done a depletion workout in my life.. some people do, some people have other training programs they use.

I train DC, and that is depleting enough...lol