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Bulk Creatine Nitrate

WhatsaRoid? said:
Haha great post. I like how this thread went from I want CN to OMG where did they get their bulk CN and is it safe all of a sudden. If Nutra would have gotten this none of these questions would have came up. I like how everyone trusts nutra so much, if you guys only knew.
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Oh no... New what?? Lol
 
WhatsaRoid? said:
Haha great post. I like how this thread went from I want CN to OMG where did they get their bulk CN and is it safe all of a sudden. If Nutra would have gotten this none of these questions would have came up. I like how everyone trusts nutra so much, if you guys only knew.
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kfairhurst said:
Ron will be contacting Muscle Feast, and I'll post up an official statement as soon as I get one.

If anyone has direct contact to the owner of Muscle Feast, that would be much appreciated.

Thank you.
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I think it's sean@[I]companyname[/I].com, or you can ask him directly on Face Book as well.

mw1 said:
If they purchased it from Premium ingreds then it shouldn't be a problem.
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I saw Premium Ingredients pop up first on Google search results - is this akin to Iovate/Muscle Tech? Is Premium the parent corporation or raw materials division of Thermolife?

kfairhurst said:
The problem is we aren't sure if Premium indeed sent it to them, and if they should have sent it to them.

IMO Bulk CN isn't safe, how many times have you heard of people confusing a tsp with a tablespoon and etc?
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Well, safety shouldn't be measured by the lowest common denominator and the likelihood someone doesn't know the simple difference between measuring spoons.
 
Outstanding said:
I think it's sean@[I]companyname[/I].com, or you can ask him directly on Face Book as well.



I saw Premium Ingredients pop up first on Google search results - is this akin to Iovate/Muscle Tech? Is Premium the parent corporation or raw materials division of Thermolife?



Well, safety shouldn't be measured by the lowest common denominator and the likelihood someone doesn't know the simple difference between measuring spoons.
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:D I saw MF facebook page and the convos about AM on their.

It seems Sean isn't any questions regarding is creatine nitrate though. I am waiting to see if he responds myself

To me it seems Premium is a distributor of the CN. I did a patent search and the person who filed the patent for creatine nitrate is the owner of thermolife

One thing I thought was weird is that custom said thermolife told him the nitrates products wont be for sale in bulk but yet it appears on the Premium site there is an application for a quote in said bulk item :think:

And by the way, there is DEFINITELY companies knocking off creatine nitrate. I found a couple earlier so I dont think its that far fetched MF can be buying a knock off, also considering Premium has CN listed on their site for sale there is also a chance MF stuff is legit.

Only time will tell I guess
 
WhatsaRoid? said:
Haha great post. I like how this thread went from I want CN to OMG where did they get their bulk CN and is it safe all of a sudden. If Nutra would have gotten this none of these questions would have came up. I like how everyone trusts nutra so much, if you guys only knew.
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Funny, people are taking damn near every supp under the sun, with NO proof what is in those caps/tubs.

It is crazy to me how selective people are with who they question. There are literally a dozen supp companies on this board, who people are gobbling up their supps like candy, with not a question of what is inside. Nothing but blind faith.


kfairhurst said:
The problem is we aren't sure if Premium indeed sent it to them, and if they should have sent it to them.

IMO Bulk CN isn't safe, how many times have you heard of people confusing a tsp with a tablespoon and etc?
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Up until this point, they have provided more proof then any other company, other then Thermolife itself, that their CN is legit.

The way I see it there is a few likely scenarios:

1.They slipped through the cracks of PI, bought the CN to distribute in bulk, and after this run will be pulled from selling it as a bulk.

2. They have an agreement with PI to sell the bulk CN.

3. IMO the most unlikeliest scenario(but anything is possible), they forged the COA, forged the purchase order, and are selling bulk CN from china.


Honestly I would just like to see a resolve to this ASAP. Either way, for better or worse, I just want TL, or PI to confirm it. Although my mind is made up.
 
JudoJosh said:
It seems Sean isn't any questions regarding is creatine nitrate though. I am waiting to see if he responds myself
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What response are you waiting for? They guy has said more then once the CN is legit, he buys it from PI. Posted COA, and purchase order showing shipment. There is not much more he can say beyond that. PI is the only one who can prove this whole thing, for the nay-sayers, I guess.


One thing I thought was weird is that custom said thermolife told him the nitrates products wont be for sale in bulk but yet it appears on the Premium site there is an application for a quote in said bulk item
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Custom said they cant SELL bulk, not that they can not BUY bulk from PI. Atleast that is the way I understood it.
 
I have Ron's email, but it sounds like others are already bothering him with it so I'll hold off. Having said that I'd only buy from the patent holder. That chinese company passino (sp?) sent me an email the other day pimping their ****.
 
StakedCop said:
I think That invoice that was posted said they bought 24 kilos. Prob sold out ;)
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That was my thinking, considering everyone making a mad dash.

Considering he bought from PI and provided more than any other company has provided, I would extend him the benefit of the doubt.

He has also given me a CoA for all protein I have ordered.
 
Man, has anybody actually read that patent? That is a straight douche move. All it says if you bind an amino and nitrate/nitrite then it is patented by Thermo. I thought there was an anti compilation clause for patents with regard to natural substances.

Though I no lawyer so have no honest clue other that my rational thinking! :D

Edit: ah never mind... looks like Gaspri has proof of my thoughts. Though I find both companies to be less than civil in any manner.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Man, has anybody actually read that patent? That is a straight douche move. All it says if you bind an amino and nitrate/nitrite then it is patented by Thermo. I thought there was an anti compilation clause for patents with regard to natural substances.

Though I no lawyer so have no honest clue other that my rational thinking! :D
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I read through it briefly. Did you notice there is no mention of the term creatrate? I thought he trademarked that name but it looks like it's the actual compound he is trying to patent.

Also according to Anthony Roberts it looks like their patent is being challenged by another company
 
JudoJosh said:
I read through it briefly. Did you notice there is no mention of the term creatrate? I thought he trademarked that name but it looks like it's the actual compound he is trying to patent.

Also according to Anthony Roberts it looks like their patent is being challenged by another company
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Yeah, I am confused by that business myself as well. The Creatrate is listed as patented by one of their products, but pretty sure you can only trademark that mix. Patent 7,777,074 covers the CN, but cannot even find a filing for a patent for Creatrate.

Eh, I will leave all the rest of the investigative work to you all. I don't even know why I care... I use micronized myself and have too much pump already with my workouts.
 
I knew this would happen..lol Awesome.


Wish I had bought the 3 extra lbs of it this afternoon I had in my cart :(

Now we all know how dirt cheap this stuff is, and paying more will feel like rape..lol
 
imprezivr6 said:
I knew this would happen..lol Awesome.


Wish I had bought the 3 extra lbs of it this afternoon I had in my cart :(

Now we all know how dirt cheap this stuff is, and paying more will feel like rape..lol
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Haha yea they sold out guys no need to think anything more into it.
 
WhatsaRoid? said:
Haha yea they sold out guys no need to think anything more into it.
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They didn't sell out, they probably had to pull it.

Too bad.

I am sure a couple other companies are happy, as that would have all but crushed their products.lol

Knowing the margins that are on this stuff, MF could still formulate something, with another form of creatine added, as well as some Vit C, and keep price WELL below other companies.
 
imprezivr6 said:
They didn't sell out, they probably had to pull it.

Too bad.

I am sure a couple other companies are happy, as that would have all but crushed their products.lol

Knowing the margins that are on this stuff, MF could still formulate something, with another form of creatine added, as well as some Vit C, and keep price WELL below other companies.
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This is why I hate people. :rant2: Good thing I got a couple of pounds already.
 
This was originally for bodybuilding.com, but much of it applies here.

Ron Kramer asked me to post his comments below regarding this thread :

"The documents posted from Musclefeast in this thread are 100% legitimate.

Musclefeast bought legitimate Creatine nitrate from Premium Ingredients.

While there are many in this industry who would, and have, fabricated similar documents (good looking out NasGhost) *it's my opinion after speaking with the owner of Musclefeast that they are not the kind of company that would do such a thing.

It seems there was a misunderstanding somewhere in the supply chain and Musclefreat was shipped legitimate Creatine nitrate from Premium Ingredients however the policy from Premium is that no companies sell Creatine nitrate in bulk.

The owner of Musclefeast is a gentleman and once he was explained that Premium is not authorized to sell Creatine nitrate for bulk sales and Premium sent it to him in error, he agreed to send it back.

The owner also agreed to remove it from his web site which he did promptly.

I am not sure what all else Musclefeast sells but I can tell you from my conversation with him that the owner comes off as an honest businessman and person with integrity, I would be inclined to think that their products are of a high quality."
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Creatine nitrate simply isn't safe for the masses in bulk.
 
kfairhurst said:
This was originally for bodybuilding.com, but much of it applies here.

Ron Kramer asked me to post his comments below regarding this thread :



Creatine nitrate simply isn't safe for the masses in bulk.
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There you go.. case closed. The people who scooped it up got the real deal jimmy steal. MF are good people's, about as honest as they come in this industry.
 
kfairhurst said:
Creatine nitrate simply isn't safe for the masses in bulk.
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Yea that's it..lol

It has has nothing to do with companies huge profit margins selling small amounts of creatine nitrate, and the fact bulk would have crushed sales on those products.

On the bright side I am sure MF gained a lot of business.
 
kfairhurst said:
This was originally for bodybuilding.com, but much of it applies here.

Ron Kramer asked me to post his comments below regarding this thread :



Creatine nitrate simply isn't safe for the masses in bulk.
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Thank you for posting that.

I know that trusting people you can get you burned, but I don't want to ever live a life where I feel I can't trust anyone. You live and you learn, but from what I can tell they are very good people and this sounds like a miscommunication to me.
 
imprezivr6 said:
Yea that's it..lol

It has has nothing to do with companies huge profit margins selling small amounts of creatine nitrate, and the fact bulk would have crushed sales on those products.

On the bright side I am sure MF gained a lot of business.
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HA! Yeah, good thing they are looking out for our best interest...
 
This whole thing is ridiculous. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, this thread was started with the best of intentions and because of the few who fancy themselves as Sherlocke Holmes, the many have to suffer. Way to go peeps...
 
southpaw23 said:
There is always a sequel! A new supplement in the works called "way to f*ck it up for everyone guys nitrate", is currently in the works.
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It was all on borrowed time. If it wasn't today, it was tomorrow, or week from now, etc, unfortunately. There was no longevity there.
 
JudoJosh said:
Wow!

I wonder if it was bunk or MF just didn't have the permission to sell it in bulk?
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I'm still in shock... I should have bought more, now that's its been removed from the website. Sigh.

I still expect it to be back in stock though, because they (the website) seem to really do business right and would never pull any fly-by-night tactics to make a quick dollar on some creatine nitrate. They might have just sold out... although, I would think in that case they would still keep the product on the site and list some generic expected back in stock date.

PS: I don't believe in, or buy into the 'nitrates aren't safe in bulk' mantra. So, because someone pays triple for the same product already in capsules, there's a magical barrier keeping them from simply taking 10-20 capsules at once? It isn't about safety, it's about corporate profiteering, which in this instance considering the patent rights is at their discretion (it just sucks nonetheless). If it was about safety, there wouldn't be such a thing as Aspirin or Flinstone's vitamins on the market. There will always be some gung ho moron stuck in his pubescent glory who will ingest ten-fold of any pill or powder he can get his hands on.
 
southpaw23 said:
Further exacerbated by a few, but anyway I hear you.
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Honestly, it doesn't matter because for the most part anyone who believed MF was legit, bought it, and the ones that questioned them, NOW have their answer, and it is too late for them.

I am not sure wtf people were thinking questioning it after the COA and PO were posted..lol Should have just dropped it there, and bought it up.

I just wish I would have bought more:(
 
I called MF and they said they had to pull it due to RK holding the legal rights to CN. MF said they bought the CN legit which we already established. The person I spoke to said they submitted an application to use CN in their pre workout. Doesn't sound like CN will ever be sold again in bulk.

That sums it up. And they said they follow all the forums and wanted me to tell all you haters to buzz off. :lol: ok i made that part up :p

What a pleasant company to deal with!!!!
 
imprezivr6 said:
Yea that's it..lol

It has has nothing to do with companies huge profit margins selling small amounts of creatine nitrate, and the fact bulk would have crushed sales on those products.

On the bright side I am sure MF gained a lot of business.
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It wouldn't crush sales, TL owns the patent and it was sourced from ThermoLife/Premium Ingredients so Ron would indeed be making money of the bulk sales. The problem is the safety of it's use.

Outstanding said:
I'm still in shock... I should have bought more, now that's its been removed from the website. Sigh.

I still expect it to be back in stock though, because they (the website) seem to really do business right and would never pull any fly-by-night tactics to make a quick dollar on some creatine nitrate. They might have just sold out... although, I would think in that case they would still keep the product on the site and list some generic expected back in stock date.

PS: I don't believe in, or buy into the 'nitrates aren't safe in bulk' mantra. So, because someone pays triple for the same product already in capsules, there's a magical barrier keeping them from simply taking 10-20 capsules at once? It isn't about safety, it's about corporate profiteering, which in this instance considering the patent rights is at their discretion (it just sucks nonetheless). If it was about safety, there wouldn't be such a thing as Aspirin or Flinstone's vitamins on the market. There will always be some gung ho moron stuck in his pubescent glory who will ingest ten-fold of any pill or powder he can get his hands on.
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It will not be back in stock, not ever from Premium Ingredients or ThermoLife source anyways. Possibly from a cheap Chinese made blend, but certainly not something I'd use.

Think about it this way, how hard is it to screw up counting capsule? Not very.

How hard is it to say loose the scoop that the container comes with, and replace it with something that looks similar? There's lot's of margin for error. And think about the people who "load" creatine. Surely someone would think "It's just creatine" and toss 5g of it in their shake. Now we're talking potential lethal doses. To get 5g of creatine nitrate, you'd need to take 30 caps of C-BOL. See the difference?

C-BOL isn't 100% creatine nitrate, it has only 1g per serving and is much safer for people's ingestion.
 
kfairhurst said:
It will not be back in stock, not ever from Premium Ingredients or ThermoLife source anyways. Possibly from a cheap Chinese made blend, but certainly not something I'd use.

Think about it this way, how hard is it to screw up counting capsule? Not very.
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I see where you're coming from, absolutely. I guess I just get aggravated many times, because I'm a methodical bodybuilder, and I calculate everything to the hilt, so I get perturbed when something like this happens only a week after I became aware of it's availability as a raw powder. Also, it doesn't help that I have a lot of experience 'behind the curtain' in the industry, from formulating to being made aware of sourcing prices and manufacturing practices, so I always shy away from pre-made products if I can help it. Thanks for your input.
 
kfairhurst said:
It wouldn't crush sales, TL owns the patent and it was sourced from ThermoLife/Premium Ingredients so Ron would indeed be making money of the bulk sales. The problem is the safety of it's use.



It will not be back in stock, not ever from Premium Ingredients or ThermoLife source anyways. Possibly from a cheap Chinese made blend, but certainly not something I'd use.

Think about it this way, how hard is it to screw up counting capsule? Not very.

How hard is it to say loose the scoop that the container comes with, and replace it with something that looks similar? There's lot's of margin for error. And think about the people who "load" creatine. Surely someone would think "It's just creatine" and toss 5g of it in their shake. Now we're talking potential lethal doses. To get 5g of creatine nitrate, you'd need to take 30 caps of C-BOL. See the difference?

C-BOL isn't 100% creatine nitrate, it has only 1g per serving and is much safer for people's ingestion.
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This isn't about consumer safety, this is about profit protection plain and simple. Thermolife can choose to paint it any which way they want to, this is a money grab. I can only hope that Gaspari (not a fan of theirs either) is successful in challenging TL's patent rights.
 
southpaw23 said:
How long has thermosuckit held the patent for?
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I don't think they do, they applied for a patent but it hasn't passes it and is currently be challenged by another supplement company

I'm not too sure about Trademark laws so I'm not too sure on the legality of making a similar compound.

I'm sure more CN products will be available soon and hopefully a bulk

And I don't buy the "not safe" excuse either. That logic of "someone can take too much" can be applied to anything
 
southpaw23 said:
This isn't about consumer safety, this is about profit protection plain and simple. Thermolife can choose to paint it any which way they want to, this is a money grab. I can only hope that Gaspari (not a fan of theirs either) is successful in challenging TL's patent rights.
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I would have to agree here.

Reading that patent really pisses me off, and I too hope Gaspari is successful (Even though I am not a fan) because the wording is so very arbitrary on that patent. Basically if you attach anything to a nitrate/nitrite you infringe on the patent. This is exactly where these patent farm lawyers get their money, from shady arbitrary patents being filed, like Microsoft patenting the freaking double click.
 
JudoJosh said:
I don't think they do, they applied for a patent but it hasn't passes it and is currently be challenged by another supplement company

I'm not too sure about Trademark laws so I'm not too sure on the legality of making a similar compound.

I'm sure more CN products will be available soon and hopefully a bulk

And I don't buy the "not safe" excuse either. That logic of "someone can take too much" can be applied to anything
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I agree.. ever drank too much robotussin DM? Tripping anyone? :D
 
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