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Bulk Creatine Nitrate

Milas said:
Interesting. Have you used GPLC? How were your results?

What would you say is better for anaerobic fatigue and increasing NO; GPLC or Nitrates?

(not necessarily creatine nitrate since there are no studies on that)
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My training is not geared towards a pump (I mainly do compound lifts with maybe 6 sets of isolation work total per week), but I still get a nice fullness with GPLC at 1.5-3.0g about 60 minutes before training. Where GPLC really shines is in the cardio department. I can push harder for longer and my recovery time between sparring rounds is noticeably improved.

As far as a direct comparison, I really couldn't make that since I'm not sure how much is in roughly 100g of spinach, which I consume several hours before training.
 
Rodja said:
My training is not geared towards a pump (I mainly do compound lifts with maybe 6 sets of isolation work total per week), but I still get a nice fullness with GPLC at 1.5-3.0g about 60 minutes before training. Where GPLC really shines is in the cardio department. I can push harder for longer and my recovery time between sparring rounds is noticeably improved.

As far as a direct comparison, I really couldn't make that since I'm not sure how much is in roughly 100g of spinach, which I consume several hours before training.
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My training is similar, I typically don't get pumps.

I thought I saw some newer study showing GPLC didn't have an effect on NO at 3g or less? The only "study" I've seen showing effect on NO was at 4.5g GPLC. It's interesting that you still get an effect despite the studies.

As for comparison, I was basing it on studies, as in the increase in NO for 4.5g GPLC versus the amounts studied for Nitrates. Given that Nitrates are used to treat cardiovascular patients, the dose curve should be pretty well documented.
 
Rodja said:
My training is not geared towards a pump (I mainly do compound lifts with maybe 6 sets of isolation work total per week), but I still get a nice fullness with GPLC at 1.5-3.0g about 60 minutes before training. Where GPLC really shines is in the cardio department. I can push harder for longer and my recovery time between sparring rounds is noticeably improved.

As far as a direct comparison, I really couldn't make that since I'm not sure how much is in roughly 100g of spinach, which I consume several hours before training.
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You would need roughly 3 times that by my estimation to be comparable (referring to the spinach)
 
DAdams91982 said:
How are you coming up with those numbers with a prop blend... and the fact that environmental factors change the levels of nitrates in all produce?
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It's in the infamous Popeye studies, of course! It took 2 cans to really pump up Popeye, so that equates to 300g.

:laughing:
 
Milas said:
My training is similar, I typically don't get pumps.

I thought I saw some newer study showing GPLC didn't have an effect on NO at 3g or less? The only "study" I've seen showing effect on NO was at 4.5g GPLC. It's interesting that you still get an effect despite the studies.

As for comparison, I was basing it on studies, as in the increase in NO for 4.5g GPLC versus the amounts studied for Nitrates. Given that Nitrates are used to treat cardiovascular patients, the dose curve should be pretty well documented.
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Having used both CN and GPLC for extended periods of time, in regards to the pump (which I don't train for as well) CN out performs GPLC by a wide margin (note simply my opinion regardless of what studies are or aren't available). My strength was up as well while on CN, as opposed to GPLC, which as referenced above is dose dependent. Some users reporting that GPLC needs to be dosed higher in order to see any benefits, which is costly in comparison to CN.
 
DAdams91982 said:
How are you coming up with those numbers with a prop blend... and the fact that environmental factors change the levels of nitrates in all produce?
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I was comparing it to the amount of nitrates supplemented in the performance study, not the aps product. I'm not certain in my calculations, it was a rough estimate. I can probably figure it out this weekend when spring break starts and I have more time.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
I was comparing it to the amount of nitrates supplemented in the performance study, not the aps product. I'm not certain in my calculations, it was a rough estimate. I can probably figure it out this weekend when spring break starts and I have more time.
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My question was a big reference that nitrate levels are different from where it is grown. More fertilizer can increase the plant levels tremendously, so making a stout judgment will not be valid.
 
DAdams91982 said:
My question was a big reference that nitrate levels are different from where it is grown. More fertilizer can increase the plant levels tremendously, so making a stout judgment will not be valid.
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Wouldnt that further support the use of a nitrate supplement? Your point works both ways.

Anyways, if I remember correctly there is a general range of nitrate content that's discussed in one of these studies and I assume referenced. You could calculate using both the low and high or use a variety of vegetables. I'm fairly sure beets contain the highest nitrate content in the vegetable world, however not many people eat them and they contain a decent amount of sugar.
 
custom said:
Sorry fellas, I submitted our PO and apparently this material is not being authorized for bulk sales.

:(

We tried.

We also should have APS' product in shortly.
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Authorized by who, is there a single holder on the patent rights of the compound? Why else would this not be able to be sourced in bulk?

I wish companies didn't have to put shiny labels on things and throw in a few 'proprietary' additions to be able to call something a 'finalized' supplement for market.
 
Outstanding said:
Authorized by who, is there a single holder on the patent rights of the compound? Why else would this not be able to be sourced in bulk?

I wish companies didn't have to put shiny labels on things and throw in a few 'proprietary' additions to be able to call something a 'finalized' supplement for market.
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It's patented. Mentioned more than once in this thread.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Wouldnt that further support the use of a nitrate supplement? Your point works both ways.

Anyways, if I remember correctly there is a general range of nitrate content that's discussed in one of these studies and I assume referenced. You could calculate using both the low and high or use a variety of vegetables. I'm fairly sure beets contain the highest nitrate content in the vegetable world, however not many people eat them and they contain a decent amount of sugar.
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So you know exactly how much is in CN as well? people seem to somehow qualifying and quantifying complete unknowns except to the formulator, and being a prop blend, or what the ionic bind at what ratio, you are making guesses.
 
All this science talk makes me wonder if I'm experiencing real results...

It also makes me wonder if I take superdrol if I'll get gains, I haven't seen the studies so it must be broscience...


Outstanding, I thought you were done with these kinds of posts, what happened (sent on my iPhone while driving and drinking a latte)?
 
Outstanding said:
Authorized by who, is there a single holder on the patent rights of the compound? Why else would this not be able to be sourced in bulk?

I wish companies didn't have to put shiny labels on things and throw in a few 'proprietary' additions to be able to call something a 'finalized' supplement for market.
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*All that is stated hereafter is complete assumption, treat it as such until Custom clarifies if he chooses to.

NP buys bulk from a list (I assume) of approved GMP suppliers, they stated not long ago all bulk powders will be GMP certified. That said, their supplier(s) that they went to with a PO for creatine nitrate may not have access to it due to a myriad of reasons, patent being one of them that is likely or some type of exclusivity contract with one or more supplement companies. If Custom can't get it now, there has to be a good reason as he already tried and I assume will continue to try until it is available. Why NP does not have the APS CN in stock is again a mystery, probably supply related, so we are stuck with that and Mesomorph as our options until bulk arrives.

End all assumption, continue with your science argument :).
 
DAdams91982 said:
So you know exactly how much is in CN as well? people seem to somehow qualifying and quantifying complete unknowns except to the formulator, and being a prop blend, or what the ionic bind at what ratio, you are making guesses.
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Also I'm fairly sure this info (regarding the cn ratio) has been stated on thermos forum. And is likely available by just asking ron.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Also I'm fairly sure this info (regarding the cn ratio) has been stated on thermos forum. And is likely available by just asking ron.
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They can state it all they want, but until it is on the side of a bottle, they can say there is 2999mgs of CN, and 1 mg of Vitamin C.. they are not bound to say anything truthful about it at the moment.

I guess I am much more skeptical than many people around. like I said earlier. To each their own. There really is no reason to debate it further. If you get results, then support the company that brought it to you, it is something not seen in the industry and I urge people to support innovation in the end.
 
DAdams91982 said:
They can state it all they want, but until it is on the side of a bottle, they can say there is 2999mgs of CN, and 1 mg of Vitamin C.. they are not bound to say anything truthful about it at the moment.

I guess I am much more skeptical than many people around. like I said earlier. To each their own. There really is no reason to debate it further. If you get results, then support the company that brought it to you, it is something not seen in the industry and I urge people to support innovation in the end.
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DA...just wanted to chime in and say great response. I too am skeptical about many products/ingredients that are used throughout the industry, many of which are supported with shoddy pseudo-scientific references. When CN first came to my attention, the first thought that popped in my head was "CEE here we go again". I took a chance anyway after reading up on nitrates and I'm glad that I did. CN in my personal opinion is a home run product.
 
DAdams91982 said:
They can state it all they want, but until it is on the side of a bottle, they can say there is 2999mgs of CN, and 1 mg of Vitamin C.. they are not bound to say anything truthful about it at the moment.

I guess I am much more skeptical than many people around. like I said earlier. To each their own. There really is no reason to debate it further. If you get results, then support the company that brought it to you, it is something not seen in the industry and I urge people to support innovation in the end.
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Prob blends are BullSh:t I hate them. But CN is king of the pump
 
Hey DAdams,
I was very skeptical at first as well. However, I can say that creatine nitrate has really impressed me. P.M me your addy and I'll send you some of mine to try. I'd be curious for your feedback as I respect your opinion and have learned from you over the years. I'm not associated with any company in any way or form.
 
StakedCop said:
Prob blends are BullSh:t I hate them. But CN is king of the pump
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I don't get the point of a prop blend if you are the only one who can sell it or have some exclusivity with the supplier. Every product is eventually copied, either well or not well, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable. :banghead:
 
Look...somebody did the leg work:

neuron said:
It's definitely possible to create this stack on your own.
Here's how you figure out the nitrate content of various salts:

Creatine (C4H9N302) has a molecular weight of 131g/mol
Nitrate (NO3) has a molecular weight of 62g/mol

1 mole of creatine nitrate = 131g/mol + 62g/mol = 193g/mol

So, nitrate would make up (62/193) ~32%

C-bol has (I believe) 1gram of creatine nitrate, so 1g x .32 = 320mg/serving

It recommends 2 servings per day, so 640mg of nitrate/day

Potassium: 39.098 g/mol
Nitrate (again): ~62 g/mol

1 mole KNO3: 101.1 g/mol

Nitrates by weight (62/101) = 61.3%

1 gram of KN03 times .613 = 613mg's of nitrate
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Milas said:
You? You're one of the most cordial folks on here! You're not "repping" Creatine Nitrate again, are you? :nono2: ;)
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lol, thanks. apparently my outspoken fondness for creatine nitrate struck a nerve with some of the mono advocates. :umbrella:
 
thebigt said:
lol, thanks. apparently my outspoken fondness for creatine nitrate struck a nerve with some of the mono advocates. :umbrella:
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Down with the mono-poly!
 
Milas said:
All this science talk makes me wonder if I'm experiencing real results...

It also makes me wonder if I take superdrol if I'll get gains, I haven't seen the studies so it must be broscience...


Outstanding, I thought you were done with these kinds of posts, what happened (sent on my iPhone while driving and drinking a latte)?
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I'm not sure what you mean by 'these kinds of posts?' Did we have a talk about me not making posts anymore wondering why we can't buy bulk creatine nitrate before?
 
Outstanding said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'these kinds of posts?' Did we have a talk about me not making posts anymore wondering why we can't buy bulk creatine nitrate before?
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I meant pointless threads, not that the bulk creatine nitrate is pointless, but the conversation had degraded. No need to dredge up the past though...
 
oufinny said:
Someone send me some CN and I will answer this debate! I am interested to see if it works as everyone says as I don't get "crazy pumps" unless I have the reps high or do a lot of drop sets.
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I will take you up on that offer for sure!

I would love to get your thoughts on our new Watermelon Mesomorph and Creatine Nitrate!
 
JudgementDay said:
I will take you up on that offer for sure!

I would love to get your thoughts on our new Watermelon Mesomorph and Creatine Nitrate!
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I can't take stimulants such as Meso, but I'm interested to see what you think of Creatine Nitrate samples. The only thing I've ever experiences painful pumps on have been hormones, the day after a massive cheat meal, when my water intake is extremely high and nutrition is perfect, and with a VERY select grouping of supplements from over the years.
 
JudgementDay said:
lol, all the reviews say otherwise, but good luck with that.
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Wasn't there already a clinical or double-blind done on Creatine Nitrate?

Also, why can't an athlete make beet root juice at home (or buy the powder) and dose it concomitantly with Creatine Monohydrate, prior to lifting, for the same results of enhanced blood flow and anabolism?
 
Just like all the reviews of CEE. You'll see in a year or two....Keep on pushing it though. Reviews prove absolutely nothing. Its alright though. Your still young a relatively naive.
 
Outstanding said:
Wasn't there already a clinical or double-blind done on Creatine Nitrate?

Also, why can't an athlete make beet root juice at home (or buy the powder) and dose it concomitantly with Creatine Monohydrate, prior to lifting, for the same results of enhanced blood flow and anabolism?
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Because then companies wouldn't be able to charge $40 a tub.
 
Outstanding said:
Wasn't there already a clinical or double-blind done on Creatine Nitrate?

Also, why can't an athlete make beet root juice at home (or buy the powder) and dose it concomitantly with Creatine Monohydrate, prior to lifting, for the same results of enhanced blood flow and anabolism?
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There is only a couple Creatine Nitrate studies, also some Nitrate studies, they have shown nitrates in beet juice can increase athletic performance, not sure how many people are up for drinking a bunch of beet juice.

A juicer will produce about 200ml of beet juice per pound, I have no idea how much beet juice you need to add up the same amount of nitrates in CN, but sounds like it could end up being more expensive for the amount of beets you would need + mono then buying a bottle of Creatine Nitrate, but to each their own lol



T-Bone said:
Reviews prove absolutely nothing.
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:thinkerg::wow:
 
T-Bone said:
Just like all the reviews of CEE. You'll see in a year or two....Keep on pushing it though. Reviews prove absolutely nothing. Its alright though. Your still young a relatively naive.
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I found this post harsh and it sounds like your getting a bit emotional over the conversation. We got your point loud and clear but this thread was for a request of CN in bulk not on your continuous opinion on CN over mono.

He is a Rep and its his job to sale his products and give information regarding so to me it has nothing to do with his age. I could bash you on things but why not just stick to the topic.
 
ModernLats said:
I found this post harsh and it sounds like your getting a bit emotional over the conversation. We got your point loud and clear but this thread was for a request of CN in bulk not on your continuous opinion on CN over mono.

He is a Rep and its his job to sale his products and give information regarding so to me it has nothing to do with his age. I could bash you on things but why not just stick to the topic.
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Yeah I agree. I may have over-reacted in that post. Sorry Judgement day, sometimes I post when I'm not in a great mood and maybe say some hurtful things. I don't want to be like that though and usually I'm not. :sad6:
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah I agree. I may have over-reacted in that post. Sorry Judgement day, sometimes I post when I'm not in a great mood and maybe say some hurtful things. I don't want to be like that though and usually I'm not. :sad6:
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I know the feeling... I call it my man period.
 
I vote we let this thread die and make its way to the back pages*




*unless someone from NP wants to update to say things have changed in regards to stocking the product.


It's gone from it's original, informative purpose into something else and it's not doing anything worthwhile anymore (just my opinion).
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah I agree. I may have over-reacted in that post. Sorry Judgement day, sometimes I post when I'm not in a great mood and maybe say some hurtful things. I don't want to be like that though and usually I'm not. :sad6:
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damn-t. you showing your feminine side, lol.


just kidding, i think that took a big man to say that-props!
 
T-Bone said:
Yeah I agree. I may have over-reacted in that post. Sorry Judgement day, sometimes I post when I'm not in a great mood and maybe say some hurtful things. I don't want to be like that though and usually I'm not. :sad6:
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It's all good, I didn't take anything personal, everyone has an opinion:) But I do appreciate the friendly apology and glad we can all get along here on AM :D
 
MidwestBeast said:
I vote we let this thread die and make its way to the back pages*




*unless someone from NP wants to update to say things have changed in regards to stocking the product.


It's gone from it's original, informative purpose into something else and it's not doing anything worthwhile anymore (just my opinion).
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I hate when this happens!!!
 
T-Bone said:
I found a place that sells it in bulk. Too bad I don't take it.
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What place is this?

I bet it wouldn't taste to good though but I'd buy and use it. What you don't realize is if the creatine in CN is better then mono or not the nitrate itself helps the other supps you take get absorbed. I take my CN when I take my other supps about three times a day :)
 
hoopem6 said:
On average, how many grams of CN do you use a day? I've seen both four grams and six grams advertised as the "proper" dosing protocol...
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Wha???! That's way to much in both cases imho. 2 grams per day is enough to maintain muscle creatine stores. And that's mono. CN has a greater solubility which should result in the need of less. I think 500-1g/day is enough personally.
 
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