I see, thank for the infothere arnt many. Juggernaught MD2 is the only one I know of
I see, thank for the infothere arnt many. Juggernaught MD2 is the only one I know of
I get some sweet aggression from ERGO,.. (and some sweet supression after week 3)I like Ergo too, but on a straight cycle the sides for me were rough. Really high BP. I plan on incorporating it into a pulse protocol. That would be stellar
Why? You'd get maximum bounce before bed on off nights.... HDX2 on OFF days (2 caps in the AM on empty stomach) ...
I was thinking about this...wouldn't it make sense to take the HDX2 and/or retain 2 before bed on the 'ON' days. Assuming someone would dose in the morning, you would allow your body to recover that night and enjoy the 'bounce' the following day.Why? You'd get maximum bounce before bed on off nights.
I get the most bounce the morning after taking something.I was thinking about this...wouldn't it make sense to take the HDX2 and/or retain 2 before bed on the 'ON' days. Assuming someone would dose in the morning, you would allow your body to recover that night and enjoy the 'bounce' the following day.
Maybe I don't quite understand how it works....
Yes, especially if you dose the anabolic before noon that's fine to take the HD that night, but I still wouldn't use a cortisol antagonist at night. I'd suppress cortisol expression first thing in the morning and early/mid afternoon when cortisol is generally at it's highest.I was thinking about this...wouldn't it make sense to take the HDX2 and/or retain 2 before bed on the 'ON' days. Assuming someone would dose in the morning, you would allow your body to recover that night and enjoy the 'bounce' the following day.
Maybe I don't quite understand how it works....
Dr. D at which point in time that cortisol is the highest, right upon waking or mid-afternoon?I'd suppress cortisol expression first thing in the morning and early/mid afternoon when cortisol is generally at it's highest.
At both of those points during the day cortisol spikes, or anytime fasting it stays elevated. Just to keep it simple, I dose 3x/day (6am, noon, 6pm).Dr. D at which point in time that cortisol is the highest, right upon waking or mid-afternoon?
Say if for example I'm taking 3 caps of cortisol control, should I take 2 caps in the morning and 1 cap at mid-afternoon or should I take 1 cap in the morning and 2 cap at mid afternoon?
Yes, but it's only 13 doses (520mg total androgen load) over 6 months instead of over 1 month like a standard pulse cycle, so the typical methyl concerns are a non-issue! All of your assertions would be accurate. It would necessarily help those heavy days, and you would have nothing but big bounces that were quite disproportionate to any transient shutdown.I can hear just hear the replies to this concept – “Dear God, no!” and “Six months on methyls!” ... Is this idea a waste of time, or worth trying?
Ah nice, ok I'll follow your protocol :thumbsup:At both of those points during the day cortisol spikes, or anytime fasting it stays elevated. Just to keep it simple, I dose 3x/day (6am, noon, 6pm).
Also, try not to take DHEA after 6pm if possible or melatonin later than midnight. That's kind of a different issue though.
Yes, but it's only 13 doses (520mg total androgen load) over 6 months instead of over 1 month like a standard pulse cycle, so the typical methyl concerns are a non-issue! All of your assertions would be accurate. It would necessarily help those heavy days, and you would have nothing but big bounces that were quite disproportionate to any transient shutdown.
I would go a bit further and say do at least 1 dose a wk instead of every 2 wks though. I think you'd get the same type of response your shooting for here, but with far greater efficiency. Once a week could be done indefinitely, for years straight theoretically. The toxicity would be so diluted, all you'd notice would be gains favored over time.
Have you ever taken any of the 6-bromo based supps? seem like more of a recomp tool than mass gainer, but also very low suppression if any and no liver issues. Theres also the handful of non-methyl designers too, which just would help with the low toxicity thingI hear you. Products like those you mention don't do much for me (someone who has been lifting weights for 20 years).
Jungle Warfare seems to have some anabolic properties based on some of the threads I've read. PA started one I think.
A low dose (20mg) will be strictly additive, like a bump in the road. A higher dose (40-60mg) will have a more significant benefit obviously and be enough to cause a temporary dip after that bump. The higher dose is needed to achieve the bounce, because you can't bounce without a dip.... I guess heres a related question. Whats the lowest dose of either superdrol or pheraplex (taken individually) or the combo as above that makes sense to take whether on a conventional pulse or as the above? Would there be any benefit at all in a 2x weekly 10mg superdrol dose? Say monday/thurs. Or would at least 20mg be required to provide noticeable effects? And would a 10/10 super/phera make sense?
Im on about week 8 of SD/Ergo. Been very good to me im up 25lbs mabe a little fat gain but im Ecto so it is welcome. Strength way up, intenisty, some days I just wanna beat the sh*t out of people and I take that to the gym and have a hellua workout. Im fairly suppressed after about week 4 of pulsing, low libido and shrunk testies but all in all 8 weeks with little sex is worth how I look and feel now. Dont want to get off.Thank you for the advice bro!
How was your experience running superdrol and Ergo for 5 weeks? Did it went smoothly without too many sides?
Makes me wanna try it out if it went well.![]()
try running a serm inverm to a AI ..also look into Massfx for a nice natty test boosterIm on about week 8 of superdrol/Ergo. Been very good to me im up 25lbs mabe a little fat gain but im Ecto so it is welcome. Strength way up, intenisty, some days I just wanna beat the sh*t out of people and I take that to the gym and have a hellua workout. Im fairly suppressed after about week 4 of pulsing, low libido and shrunk testies but all in all 8 weeks with little sex is worth how I look and feel now. Dont want to get off.
Whats the best test booster right when I get off cycle? Gonna use some Activate Ext. about 3-4 weeks into post cycle therapy. Im thing Nolv/Clomid combo low doses and maby powerfull?
Wow! That is awesome progress, what was your dosing like?Im on about week 8 of superdrol/Ergo. Been very good to me im up 25lbs mabe a little fat gain but im Ecto so it is welcome. Strength way up, intenisty, some days I just wanna beat the sh*t out of people and I take that to the gym and have a hellua workout. Im fairly suppressed after about week 4 of pulsing, low libido and shrunk testies but all in all 8 weeks with little sex is worth how I look and feel now. Dont want to get off.
This is my plan for Post Cycle Therapy:Whats the best test booster right when I get off cycle? Gonna use some Activate Ext. about 3-4 weeks into post cycle therapy. Im thing Nolv/Clomid combo low doses and maby powerfull?
Good idea. I've never tried pheraplex or superdrol, but I would like to do something like that with, say, epi. Maybe a bit more frequent, as epi is not very powerful. How about twice a week at 40 mg? There would be literally no chance at shutdown at that point I would think.Okay, I think I might try the once a week pulse then. After several months of that pulsing schedule I'll report back on the results. :thumbsup:
It varied started off 30mg of each then started to bump up the super drol to 60mg at the most wasent very consistant in dosing but it got the job done. I work 12 shifts with rotating days off so i have 2days on 3off 2on 2 off 3on @ work so i just took my doses on the 2-3days that I was off and that I could work out and the other 2-3 days that I worked I took nothing.Wow! That is awesome progress, what was your dosing like?
Did you get any other sides other than feeling suppressed? Gyno sign, hair loss or anything else?
I don't think you would need both Nolva and Clomid at the same time, Nolva by itself should sufficient in my opinion, maybe Dr. D can chime in.![]()
Holy ****, 60 mg of SD, that's crazyIt varied started off 30mg of each then started to bump up the super drol to 60mg at the most wasent very consistant in dosing but it got the job done. I work 12 shifts with rotating days off so i have 2days on 3off 2on 2 off 3on @ work so i just took my doses on the 2-3days that I was off and that I could work out and the other 2-3 days that I worked I took nothing.
I have the Nolva Clomid combo. Im not worried about estrogen control/gyno just want to get my boys back (clomid will do that) and get my libido back. Bad libido was the only side I had period. In past straight cycles I usually get sick but this one has been great and feeling and looking good. :head:
Hey Doc--I've been toying with a similar idea for a long time. I can do my entire workout in 3 consecutive days. So I'm considering taking SD (stacked with 1-4 Andro, because I happen to have tons of both) on my 3 workout days, followed by 2 days of mini (micro?)-PCT (I'm not sure what compounds), then 2 days of nothing, and then repeating every week. (I think I'd call this "micro-cycling" rather than "pulsing.") Do you think I could do this indefinitely, or would a full PCT be necessary every few months?Yes, but it's only 13 doses (520mg total androgen load) over 6 months instead of over 1 month like a standard pulse cycle, so the typical methyl concerns are a non-issue! All of your assertions would be accurate. It would necessarily help those heavy days, and you would have nothing but big bounces that were quite disproportionate to any transient shutdown.
I would go a bit further and say do at least 1 dose a wk instead of every 2 wks though. I think you'd get the same type of response your shooting for here, but with far greater efficiency. Once a week could be done indefinitely, for years straight theoretically. The toxicity would be so diluted, all you'd notice would be gains favored over time.
no melatonin after midnight....why????At both of those points during the day cortisol spikes, or anytime fasting it stays elevated. Just to keep it simple, I dose 3x/day (6am, noon, 6pm).
Also, try not to take DHEA after 6pm if possible or melatonin later than midnight. That's kind of a different issue though.
I think D said it blocks absorption to some degree. I may be wrong.why no liver supps on off days :think:
Well, you certinly could take one compound before you lift, and another afterwards. The idea is to have to compound clear the system after doing it's job fast as possible, so the next day I do not beleive would be a factor. (I beleive there was something about liver sups too,.. I suppose you COULD use that too,.. but one of the bennifits in pulsing is you spare your liver since your not dosing daily. Liver protection shouldn't benecessessary, and the possibility of it blocking absorbtion lingers... further lending to the school of thought you can go without it.if your pulsing though... wouldnt that mean only taking one at a time or is the effects long lasting enough to block absorbtion the next day as well?
I beleive A:A ratios are always refered to test.also while we got D's eyes on this thread ... superdrol is 400% as ANABOLIC and 20% as androgenic for its A::A ratios when cmopared to what?? test? 1-test?
I beleive is was 90: 1200 or something, depending on where you look.. also, I would speculate that would also depend on which epi your taking. there are different ratio's in the isomers,.. and while both will work, I can tell ya I definately feel a difference -I explained in my epi log for Genera- so one may be more androgenic then the other, as I feel I get supressed MUCH faster on Havoc then the Epidrol I'm taking.and also what is epis A::A ratio?
I DO think there are different types of androgen receptors, yet we havent identified them yet. You also have progesterone receptors, estrogen receptors... but I think mostly, its the AR where the goodness comes from. If all steroids hit the exact same receptor, why have as many as we do:think: ...how well do those 2 mesh in a stack? also does Mtrn effect its own receptor.... or the androgen receptor the same as epi?
After everything I have said,.. I still would choose to take TRN before working out, simply becasue of the strength bennifits over Epi. Theroticlly, (my spelling sux) you can take the compounds on your off dyas, as opposed to days you work out- but you loose the strength bennifits you get from the added androgenjust casue i know epi has a ver strong binding affinity for the receptor and wouldnt want to waste trn if epi would block most its abosrbtion... same with superdrol and epi... i want to get the most effective stack pssible...
I have stacked a lil d-bol with epi a few times. I beleive d-bol is something like 45:90.also what about dbol and its A::A ratio and how well it would stack with epi and trn.
Nope. Maybe there would be a simular site might :lol:Does anyone know if nutraplanet carries any of the non-methyl designers? Thinking about a superdrol/non-methyl something pulse
I think they (suprememuscle) have Furazadrol and BOLD, those are not methylated.Does anyone know if nutraplanet carries any of the non-methyl designers? Thinking about a superdrol/non-methyl something pulse
sounds good man thanks for alll the responses :thumbsup: now just to be absolutely clear tht ratio above is anabolic:androgenic right? 90 as anabolic and 1200 as androgenic.... damn thats some pretty "strong" stuff!I beleive is was 90: 1200 or something, depending on where you look.. also, I would speculate that would also depend on which epi your taking. .
yes BUT epistane is all one isomer...... i think you should give it a try next and give everyone a complete comparitive reveiw.... specially with all these other generics and versions coming out from different producers.there are different ratio's in the isomers,.. and while both will work, I can tell ya I definately feel a difference -I explained in my epi log for Genera- so one may be more androgenic then the other, as I feel I get supressed MUCH faster on Havoc then the Epidrol I'm taking
Hey easy if u want to try out a tren ph go to discount anabolics and get some Trenadrol. Feedback has been crazy on it. Decent price as well.Does anyone know if nutraplanet carries any of the non-methyl designers? Thinking about a superdrol/non-methyl something pulse
I think its the other way around, 90 as androgenic and 1200 as anabolic compared to methyltestnow just to be absolutely clear tht ratio above is anabolic:androgenic right? 90 as anabolic and 1200 as androgenic....
Nah- 90% as androgenic as test, 1200ish as anabolicsounds good man thanks for alll the responses :thumbsup: now just to be absolutely clear tht ratio above is anabolic:androgenic right? 90 as anabolic and 1200 as androgenic.... damn thats some pretty "strong" stuff!
When pulsing, you can get away with higher dosing.. by that , I mean, take the usual (usually about 3 tabs/pills/caps) and work from there.anyone know the typical dose for an superdrol pulse? i know epi is anywhere between 30mg-50mg....
lol- I have, and I did. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/generasupplements/70963-flosss-im-gonna.html#post915572yes BUT epistane is all one isomer...... i think you should give it a try next and give everyone a complete comparitive reveiw.... specially with all these other generics and versions coming out from different producers.
This is correct. Generally speaking, orals are compared to methyl-test when assessing potency. Injectables are compared to test.I think its the other way around, 90 as androgenic and 1200 as anabolic compared to methyltest
opps,.. I ment methyl test:fool2:This is correct. Generally speaking, orals are compared to methyl-test when assessing potency. Injectables are compared to test.
Revisiting a little, using superdrol specifically, which of the following is likely to be best for a 1st cycle of designers/phA low dose (20mg) will be strictly additive, like a bump in the road. A higher dose (40-60mg) will have a more significant benefit obviously and be enough to cause a temporary dip after that bump. The higher dose is needed to achieve the bounce, because you can't bounce without a dip.
The 2x/wk low dose has it's place and the high dose once every wk or two does also. It just depends on you. Give both a 1 month trial and see what you think before you implement one or the other.
I think it screws up cortisol/DHEA ratios the next day if it turns light and too much of it is still in your system. Messes with your circadian rhythm. I don't even use it unless I really have to and can take it pretty early.no melatonin after midnight....why????
Yes, a dose on off days is fine.why no liver supps on off days :think:
Superdrol is 0-20/400-800 based on 2 studies, so the ratio average is ~10:600 compared to methyltest as a standard, it's 91:1100 with Epi based on 1 main study only. Epi does not seem to interfere with SD in a stack and indeed they mesh well in combo. It could be they don't saturate AR's or have a comparable binding affinity where you get both effects pretty equally, but the stack is primarily synergistic rather than competitive. Epi should be almost twice as strong as SD mg-VS-mg but it's not, it's about twice as weak, so that may indicate that it has a lower AR affinity even with it's greater intrinsic activity, so it might be offering something else to the stack.if your pulsing though... wouldnt that mean only taking one at a time or is the effects long lasting enough to block absorbtion the next day as well?
also while we got D's eyes on this thread ... superdrol is 400% as ANABOLIC and 20% as androgenic for its A::A ratios when cmopared to what?? test? 1-test? and also what is epis A::A ratio? how well do those 2 mesh in a stack? also does Mtrn effect its own receptor.... or the androgen receptor the same as epi? would a tren deriv effect a certain trnen receptor? :think: just casue i know epi has a ver strong binding affinity for the receptor and wouldnt want to waste trn if epi would block most its abosrbtion... same with superdrol and epi... i want to get the most effective stack pssible... also what about dbol and its A::A ratio and how well it would stack with epi and trn.
For SD: 20,30,40 or 20,20,40 looks good if you consistently have at least 2 consecutive off days per week, otherwise I'd just keep it static at 30,30,30... EOD.Revisiting a little, using superdrol specifically, which of the following is likely to be best for a 1st cycle of designers/ph
M/W/F workout days
Specifically which would give the biggest end bounce gain of natural test levels? i'm sort of guessing the 20/20/40
- 10/10/30
- 10/10/40
- 20/20/30
- 20/20/40
- 20/20/50
- 30/30/40
- 30/30/50
If I was going to try it and wanted to use all this stuff, I might try it this way:Hey D,
I have some questions for my change of plans. I will list the supplements I have and hopefully u can help ur boy out. I know this playing with my hormones and all but what kind of neg effect will pulsing have on me while trying to have a baby?
New Plan: 12 week pulse maybe longer? Whats the longest u would ok with? I want to go 4x week but will prob stick to 3x. Depending on the length of pulse.
ErgoMax LMG, Superdrol. Epistane.
I want to run 6 week of Ergo Pre-workout @ 20-30mg. Superdrol @ 20-30mg Pre-Workout for the last 6 weeks. I want to run Epi for the 12 weeks at maybe 30-50mg postworkout.
Supplements for off day. I am having a hard time figuring what would be best.
Activate Xtreme
Restore
Advanced post cycle therapy
Retain 2
Maybe start these half way thru the pulse?
Everyday supplements:
Green Mag- Creatine
Incarnate- Beta-Alanine and Cissus
BCAA's
Of course vitamins A,B,C and E plus a multi in the morn.
I know u aren't a fan of running liver support on off days but I was going to throw in some NOW liver dextox. Prob around lunch time.
Any other feedback would be great.
Thanks,
Mike
I sent this thru the pm's as well, but just in case I posted it here too.