Gaining muscles while losing fat. HGP tries the impossible, watch me fail!

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Maybe if I amputate my arms the lats look bigger...

Lol that might work! I'll take the biceps in transplant.

Actually your lats have a good V-shape more than mine, but some Bros get that **** to look like wings.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Lol that might work! I'll take the biceps in transplant.

Actually your lats have a good V-shape more than mine, but some Bros get that **** to look like wings.

EXACTLY! I want those half-moon shaped wings! I figured, my obliques are too damn pronounced, having a smaller waist makes lats more impressive. Can't get much smaller at the waist -maybe 2 inches each side, by deflating the hip tire. Maybe we have sh1tty lat-genes (same gene as the head-hair-gene).

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

EXACTLY! I want those half-moon shaped wings! I figured, my obliques are too damn pronounced, having a smaller waist makes lats more impressive. Can't get much smaller at the waist -maybe 2 inches each side, by deflating the hip tire. Maybe we have sh1tty lat-genes (same gene as the head-hair-gene).

Roflol yup, but we got the brains and big dyck Genes as a bargain with God before birth.. worth it!

 

[hairygrandpa]

Roflol yup, but we got the brains and big dyck Genes as a bargain with God before birth.. worth it!

I remember before my birth. When God was giving away biceps I volunteered twice. I did not pay attention when he was offering free calfs and lats.

 

[jtmass]

Anyone?

For better looking lats, what can I do? Obviously no chin ups, press downs -or pull downs. Have mastered them already, all with serious weights. T-bar rows also not, I do them with up to 7 plates, dammit.

*High rows maybe? Kroc rows? Banging my wife in awkward positions?

Seated rows, Dumbbell rows??

 

[hairygrandpa]

Seated rows, Dumbbell rows??

I do 260lbs seated rows for sets of 12's. Seriously. There is not more weight on the stack. Would have to craft my own machine to have more weight. Dumbbell rows. I hate DB rows and Kroc rows - Its the same with good tasting food, the stuff with the worst taste is good for you.
May have to do those fugging DB rows. Problem is, they work my obliques too -and I have too much of them already.

 

[Wobmarvel]

Cable pullovers maybe? Something where the range of movement is extreme. I'm a small guy compared to you but when I added resistance band pullovers to my back routine recently I ended up with doms in my lats that I haven't had since I don't know when. Extra wide pull ups supersetted with cable pullovers would be pretty crazy.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Cable pullovers maybe? Something where the range of movement is extreme. I'm a small guy compared to you but when I added resistance band pullovers to my back routine recently I ended up with doms in my lats that I haven't had since I don't know when. Extra wide pull ups supersetted with cable pullovers would be pretty crazy.

That sounds interesting. Never did them, have to look up how to do them. I could try cable pull overs, no resistance bands in my gym.

 

[jtmass]

That sounds interesting. Never did them, have to look up how to do them. I could try cable pull overs, no resistance bands in my gym.

DB Rows over Cable Pullover anyday, HGP. I hate it too. But, it’s great. Or else, increase your ROM for Barbell Rows.. go down down down

 

[Rocket3015]

Shoulders are Crazy Big !!!

 

[hairygrandpa]

DB Rows over Cable Pullover anyday, HGP. I hate it too. But, it’s great. Or else, increase your ROM for Barbell Rows.. go down down down

Not doing BB rows anymore, no dead lifts, not much of benching.... I'm too old and my spinal column said "fugg you". I heard it loud and clear! Gonna try both, maybe superset: DB rows (even with a wrist twist? saw that one on youtube) and then the cable pullovers.

 

[hairygrandpa]

Shoulders are Crazy Big !!!

Cable Crossover Side Lateral Raise, partials. Try it and get hooked on them. Seriously:

[video=youtube;dlcjtvZwbV0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlcjtvZwbV0[/video]

Same but bent over for rear delts. Those blew me up in a few weeks.

 

[Rocket3015]

I have a Pull Over Machine I Really Like and I Understand So Did Dorian Yates !!

 

[hairygrandpa]

I have a Pull Over Machine I Really Like and I Understand So Did Dorian Yates !!

Who is Dorito Yates? Do them like HGP!

 

[Wobmarvel]

That sounds interesting. Never did them, have to look up how to do them. I could try cable pull overs, no resistance bands in my gym.

I would use cables if I had access because with resistance bands you only really have decent tension in the lower half of the movement. I think next workout I'm gonna try lying dumbbell pull overs superset with resistance band kneeling pullovers to get better resistance through the whole movement. Wouldn't need that with cables though. And I wouldn't choose these over dumbbell rows I would try and do both. They excercise the lats differently, with dumbbell rows your not starting with your arms raised over your head and with pullovers there is less of a middle back squeeze (I just invented that term)

No idea if this guy is a twat but this is the exercise.

https://youtu.be/Mjxg51uigCc

 

[Wobmarvel]

Who is Dorito Yates? Do them like HGP!

Didn't dorito Yates compete with Lee Hershey?

 

[hairygrandpa]

I would use cables if I had access because with resistance bands you only really have decent tension in the lower half of the movement. I think next workout I'm gonna try lying dumbbell pull overs superset with resistance band kneeling pullovers to get better resistance through the whole movement. Wouldn't need that with cables though. And I wouldn't choose these over dumbbell rows I would try and do both. They excercise the lats differently, with dumbbell rows your not starting with your arms raised over your head and with pullovers there is less of a middle back squeeze (I just invented that term)

No idea if this guy is a twat but this is the exercise.

https://youtu.be/Mjxg51uigCc

Ah. I call them lat push downs -or lat press downs. Doing them already, with rope, bar -or two long handles to get more behind hips. Maxing out the whole damn stack already.... Sh1t, I thought it was something I don't know. But hey, they give a great burn when I do them after lat pull downs or pull ups.
Now thinking that the form of my lats is genetic. Maxing out all machines rowing and doing weighted pull/chin ups for sets of 10-12 with +45lbs/ 110lbs for 1-2x max. Time for plan B: Implants.

 

[jtmass]

Ah. I call them lat push downs -or lat press downs. Doing them already, with rope, bar -or two long handles to get more behind hips. Maxing out the whole damn stack already.... Sh1t, I thought it was something I don't know. But hey, they give a great burn when I do them after lat pull downs or pull ups.
Now thinking that the form of my lats is genetic. Maxing out all machines rowing and doing weighted pull/chin ups for sets of 10-12 with +45lbs/ 110lbs for 1-2x max. Time for plan B: Implants.

If you have some left overs from the implant, I’d like some on my calves..

 

[hairygrandpa]

If you have some left overs from the implant, I’d like some on my calves..

I need those too.
Breast implants for calves, with nipples. Abs implants with nipples are dope! 8 Nipples!

 

[Wobmarvel]

Ah. I call them lat push downs -or lat press downs. Doing them already, with rope, bar -or two long handles to get more behind hips. Maxing out the whole damn stack already.... Sh1t, I thought it was something I don't know. But hey, they give a great burn when I do them after lat pull downs or pull ups.
Now thinking that the form of my lats is genetic. Maxing out all machines rowing and doing weighted pull/chin ups for sets of 10-12 with +45lbs/ 110lbs for 1-2x max. Time for plan B: Implants.

Your still making amazing progress, your possibly starting to suffer from slight bigorexia. Remember if you can tighten the waist whilst keeping the size you have then that will increase the appearance of width.

Here's what my back looks like just now so your still leaps and bounds ahead of me.

 

[Rocket3015]

Wobmarvel Back is looking good, and I like your toothbrush !!

 

[Wobmarvel]

Wobmarvel Back is looking good, and I like your toothbrush !!

Lol thanks, wasn't sure the pic worked because it doesn't open on my phone. The toothbrush belongs to my eldest son... But I am a bit jealous.

 

[Hyde]

I respect your training ethic a lot, so I want to establish that first so you understand my feedback is purely constructive.

Your back looks weak because you don’t/can’t train it heavily. Deadlifting, squatting, good mornings, picking up heavy objects is what builds up those missing erectors on the lumbar. And the upper back lacks depth and some width likely because you aren’t barbell & db rowing, or carrying heavy things in front of you. These are things all masters bodybuilders have to work around - they say legs are the first to go but eventually back. You don’t see many 50 yr old strongmen for a reason - it’s not because guys don’t want to, but injuries catch up.

So some of that is just going to have to be a hard pass - BUT, there are more things you can be doing that could safely help you make gains.

Kroc Rows with your hand braced on something with a good belt & the Valsalva maneuver could definitely beef upper back/lower traps up. Laying on an incline bench facing pad doing chest-supported DB rows has been huge for my back thickness & totally unloads the low back. Laying on a flat bench you’ve elevated on blocks under the feet and a barbell beneath it will let you do Seal Rows, which again supports the entire torso so you can focus on rowing hard from the elbows. And erectors, just getting lots of frequent volume on hypertensions, eventually holding weights or against bands around your neck, will help there (and help slowly bulletproof your low back). I like sets of 20-30 for those but heavier is fine if you tolerate it well. Don’t kill them the first few times doing them & brace your abs too.

For me, frequency of training my upper back and then intensity were the keys. Doing lots of volume once a week was useless. My observation is a lot of cable work and pulldowns guys do end up being junk reps for the sake of volume - if you aren’t cursing training back it’s probably not hard enough to matter. When you do one maximal set of Kroc Rows rest paused Doggcrapp style, beating your previous rep or weight bests, you’re going to KNOW you made gains in one single set of one exercise. Because that set may be the hardest thing you do all day.

 

[MrKleen73]

Since my abs suck, I gonna show my back:

View attachment 181228

Others have sort of a tree shaped muscle on the back. I'm not sure what I'm looking at here. Do I have to be leaner to have more back muscle definition, or am I missing a whole group of muscles?

You want to show the tree you have to flex your erectors and abs. So rock your hips back a little and arch your back slightly and it will help to show that area a lot more.

I would like to have more pronounced lats and traps, I think both are under-developed. It's weird, because those muscles are what I'm good at, like weighted chin ups, straight arm lat press down with 80+ lbs. I feel my shoulders are a bit big, even though I hardly use any weights when doing shoulder exercises. Calves are lagging badly in proportion too. Biceps could need 2-5 inches more too...

Shoulders and arms are definitely a little over powering to the rest of your physique but lots of good things going on here.

Also shoulders respond better to explosive movement, and volume moreso than heavy weight so you have really been training them specifically for growth with your training style.

Anyone?

For better looking lats, what can I do? Obviously no chin ups, press downs -or pull downs. Have mastered them already, all with serious weights. T-bar rows also not, I do them with up to 7 plates, dammit.

*High rows maybe? Kroc rows? Banging my wife in awkward positions?

You have mastered the art of moving the weights, but not activating the prime movers. Similar to power lifters with smaller chest and huge shoulders and triceps. Judging by your shoulder and arm size I would pretty much guarantee that you are using a lot of arm and shoulder in your pulling movements rather than engaging the lats. You should look into slowing the movements down and working on "intentions" for a while. It is little ways that BPak came up with to actually target and super activate the target muscle instead of the secondary movers. THings like pulling out to the sides on the bar while pulling up/down, or pulling the elbows down instead of thinking of pulling the bar down / body up. I would focus on things like that for a while then when you go back to heavy stuff you will already have easy access to the lats.

 

[MrKleen73]

Since my abs suck, I gonna show my back:

View attachment 181228

Others have sort of a tree shaped muscle on the back. I'm not sure what I'm looking at here. Do I have to be leaner to have more back muscle definition, or am I missing a whole group of muscles?

You want to show the tree you have to flex your erectors and abs. So rock your hips back a little and arch your back slightly and it will help to show that area a lot more.

I would like to have more pronounced lats and traps, I think both are under-developed. It's weird, because those muscles are what I'm good at, like weighted chin ups, straight arm lat press down with 80+ lbs. I feel my shoulders are a bit big, even though I hardly use any weights when doing shoulder exercises. Calves are lagging badly in proportion too. Biceps could need 2-5 inches more too...

Shoulders and arms are definitely a little over powering to the rest of your physique but lots of good things going on here.

Also shoulders respond better to explosive movement, and volume moreso than heavy weight so you have really been training them specifically for growth with your training style.

Anyone?

For better looking lats, what can I do? Obviously no chin ups, press downs -or pull downs. Have mastered them already, all with serious weights. T-bar rows also not, I do them with up to 7 plates, dammit.

*High rows maybe? Kroc rows? Banging my wife in awkward positions?

You have mastered the art of moving the weights, but not activating the prime movers. Similar to power lifters with smaller chest and huge shoulders and triceps. Judging by your shoulder and arm size I would pretty much guarantee that you are using a lot of arm and shoulder in your pulling movements rather than engaging the lats. You should look into slowing the movements down and working on "intentions" for a while. It is little ways that BPak came up with to actually target and super activate the target muscle instead of the secondary movers. THings like pulling out to the sides on the bar while pulling up/down, or pulling the elbows down instead of thinking of pulling the bar down / body up. I would focus on things like that for a while then when you go back to heavy stuff you will already have easy access to the lats.

Look up some of BPak's (Ben Pakulski) videos on intentions and give that stuff a shot.

 

[Hyde]

Off cycle before previous bulk:

A month later, on cycle:

You can see that it’s not really a matter of drugs as much for the overall back - it just takes a lot of time doing a lot of hard work. There’s a reason guys like Tony Huge have weak backs. It can be brutal, worse than legs for some, and you can look awesome from the front without a good back.

Your delta and biceps are bangin’ btw.

 

[SkRaw85]

If you only look at my calfs, they are not as bad... but in proportion they are ridiculously girly. I don't wanna be member of the #nocalfclub.

For lats, what can I fugging do? Obviously no chin ups, press downs -or pull downs. Have mastered them already, all with serious weights. High rows maybe? Kroc rows? T-bar rows not, I do them with up to 7 plates, dammit.

Chest supported barbell row variations light me up pretty good.

 

[SkRaw85]

Or pin up de lats with some synthol

 

[Wobmarvel]

Incidentally I have good calves. The only advice I have is to go back in time and walk on your tip toes for most of your childhood life. For some reason I had a weird habit of doing this for years. Even when I was 15 or so if I was in the house wearing only socks or bare foot I would walk around on tip toes and still sometimes find myself doing this today. Don't know how big they measure but I've never done specific calf training and they are easily bigger than my arms (not that difficult I know).

 

[MrKleen73]

Incidentally I have good calves. The only advice I have is to go back in time and walk on your tip toes for most of your childhood life. For some reason I had a weird habit of doing this for years. Even when I was 15 or so if I was in the house wearing only socks or bare foot I would walk around on tip toes and still sometimes find myself doing this today. Don't know how big they measure but I've never done specific calf training and they are easily bigger than my arms (not that difficult I know).

For what it is worth, another guy here with good genetics for calves... I did the same as far as always being slightly on the balls of my feet when younger. I also rode bikes and play 6 years of soccer and also skateboarded for years. Most of the time now I do heal toe but every once in a while I and up on the balls of my feet with my heel just barely off the ground.

 

[Hyde]

I just started training calves again, twice a week, since the bicep surgery the last 2 months. They’ve definitely beefed up a little. Last 2 weeks been doing the Doggcrapp 15 sec stretch per rep for one set and it’s just awful. Not sure if it will pay out yet though, but it’s intense.

 

[MrKleen73]

That worked pretty well for me the short time I did it. Same with supersetting the tibialis anterior and calves like John Meadows suggests.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I respect your training ethic a lot, so I want to establish that first so you understand my feedback is purely constructive.

Your back looks weak because you don’t/can’t train it heavily. Deadlifting, squatting, good mornings, picking up heavy objects is what builds up those missing erectors on the lumbar. And the upper back lacks depth and some width likely because you aren’t barbell & db rowing, or carrying heavy things in front of you. These are things all masters bodybuilders have to work around - they say legs are the first to go but eventually back. You don’t see many 50 yr old strongmen for a reason - it’s not because guys don’t want to, but injuries catch up.

So some of that is just going to have to be a hard pass - BUT, there are more things you can be doing that could safely help you make gains.

Kroc Rows with your hand braced on something with a good belt & the Valsalva maneuver could definitely beef upper back/lower traps up. Laying on an incline bench facing pad doing chest-supported DB rows has been huge for my back thickness & totally unloads the low back. Laying on a flat bench you’ve elevated on blocks under the feet and a barbell beneath it will let you do Seal Rows, which again supports the entire torso so you can focus on rowing hard from the elbows. And erectors, just getting lots of frequent volume on hypertensions, eventually holding weights or against bands around your neck, will help there (and help slowly bulletproof your low back). I like sets of 20-30 for those but heavier is fine if you tolerate it well. Don’t kill them the first few times doing them & brace your abs too.

For me, frequency of training my upper back and then intensity were the keys. Doing lots of volume once a week was useless. My observation is a lot of cable work and pulldowns guys do end up being junk reps for the sake of volume - if you aren’t cursing training back it’s probably not hard enough to matter. When you do one maximal set of Kroc Rows rest paused Doggcrapp style, beating your previous rep or weight bests, you’re going to KNOW you made gains in one single set of one exercise. Because that set may be the hardest thing you do all day.

You want to show the tree you have to flex your erectors and abs. So rock your hips back a little and arch your back slightly and it will help to show that area a lot more.

Shoulders and arms are definitely a little over powering to the rest of your physique but lots of good things going on here.

Also shoulders respond better to explosive movement, and volume moreso than heavy weight so you have really been training them specifically for growth with your training style.



You have mastered the art of moving the weights, but not activating the prime movers. Similar to power lifters with smaller chest and huge shoulders and triceps. Judging by your shoulder and arm size I would pretty much guarantee that you are using a lot of arm and shoulder in your pulling movements rather than engaging the lats. You should look into slowing the movements down and working on "intentions" for a while. It is little ways that BPak came up with to actually target and super activate the target muscle instead of the secondary movers. THings like pulling out to the sides on the bar while pulling up/down, or pulling the elbows down instead of thinking of pulling the bar down / body up. I would focus on things like that for a while then when you go back to heavy stuff you will already have easy access to the lats.

Will take both advises and combine them to create a new approach! VERY helpful, thank you brothers! Starting tomorrow tweaking my back training.

 

[SkRaw85]

Incidentally I have good calves. The only advice I have is to go back in time and walk on your tip toes for most of your childhood life. For some reason I had a weird habit of doing this for years. Even when I was 15 or so if I was in the house wearing only socks or bare foot I would walk around on tip toes and still sometimes find myself doing this today. Don't know how big they measure but I've never done specific calf training and they are easily bigger than my arms (not that difficult I know).

My kid does that. Apparently my wife did too when she was young and she has killer calves. I wear pants when She wears shorts

 

[hairygrandpa]

I respect your training ethic a lot, so I want to establish that first so you understand my feedback is purely constructive.

Your back looks weak because you don’t/can’t train it heavily. Deadlifting, squatting, good mornings, picking up heavy objects is what builds up those missing erectors on the lumbar. And the upper back lacks depth and some width likely because you aren’t barbell & db rowing, or carrying heavy things in front of you. These are things all masters bodybuilders have to work around - they say legs are the first to go but eventually back. You don’t see many 50 yr old strongmen for a reason - it’s not because guys don’t want to, but injuries catch up.

So some of that is just going to have to be a hard pass - BUT, there are more things you can be doing that could safely help you make gains.

Kroc Rows with your hand braced on something with a good belt & the Valsalva maneuver could definitely beef upper back/lower traps up. Laying on an incline bench facing pad doing chest-supported DB rows has been huge for my back thickness & totally unloads the low back. Laying on a flat bench you’ve elevated on blocks under the feet and a barbell beneath it will let you do Seal Rows, which again supports the entire torso so you can focus on rowing hard from the elbows. And erectors, just getting lots of frequent volume on hypertensions, eventually holding weights or against bands around your neck, will help there (and help slowly bulletproof your low back). I like sets of 20-30 for those but heavier is fine if you tolerate it well. Don’t kill them the first few times doing them & brace your abs too.

For me, frequency of training my upper back and then intensity were the keys. Doing lots of volume once a week was useless. My observation is a lot of cable work and pulldowns guys do end up being junk reps for the sake of volume - if you aren’t cursing training back it’s probably not hard enough to matter. When you do one maximal set of Kroc Rows rest paused Doggcrapp style, beating your previous rep or weight bests, you’re going to KNOW you made gains in one single set of one exercise. Because that set may be the hardest thing you do all day.

Off cycle before previous bulk:

View attachment 181239

A month later, on cycle:

View attachment 181240

You can see that it’s not really a matter of drugs as much for the overall back - it just takes a lot of time doing a lot of hard work. There’s a reason guys like Tony Huge have weak backs. It can be brutal, worse than legs for some, and you can look awesome from the front without a good back.

Your delta and biceps are bangin’ btw.

Looking at your physique, one can clearly see the strongmen. You look, well, strong like hell! I may look strong -but have trouble carrying the grocery bags, LOL.

 

[hairygrandpa]

My thoughts on DMAA+ECA:

I have to drop it. It makes me so aggressive, I can't guarantee to not hurt anyone while on. It never had that effect on me in the past.
Maybe its the combo of orals I take + the stimulating effect. I don't know. It not only brings me to the very edge of getting violent, it also leads to risky behavior when attending business. I played poker with a very needed sale of real estate, basically pushing the buyer to a decision, by giving a "very verbal" ultimatum (Like: you have 48 hours to buy -or don't call again to waste my time). It worked -but I swear, if I was the buyer, I would have skipped the deal.

Anyone had a similar experience with that stuff?

 

[Wobmarvel]

I've used dmaa and eca stacks in the past but never whilst trying to sell real estate so can't comment.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I've used dmaa and eca stacks in the past but never whilst trying to sell real estate so can't comment.

But did it make you short tempered?

 

[BennyMagoo79]

2 scoops of OG total war used to work me up pretty well. Can't remember if that was dmaa or dmha though.

 

[Wobmarvel]

But did it make you short tempered?

Never took them together to be honest. Only dmaa I took was OG jack3d. Eca I took at a different time. Both made me feel hyped if I recall but no aggression.

 

[MrKleen73]

But did it make you short tempered?

Aggression and irritation is a known side effect to ephedrine, and many other stimulants. Heck I find myself being very testy sometimes from a strong pre-workout if something happens and I don't get to burn the edge off.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Aggression and irritation is a known side effect to ephedrine, and many other stimulants. Heck I find myself barking sometimes from a strong pre-workout if something happens and I can't get to burn the edge off.

You think it is the spike in cortisol?

 

[ValiantThor08]

My thoughts on DMAA+ECA:

I have to drop it. It makes me so aggressive, I can't guarantee to not hurt anyone while on. It never had that effect on me in the past.
Maybe its the combo of orals I take + the stimulating effect. I don't know. It not only brings me to the very edge of getting violent, it also leads to risky behavior when attending business. I played poker with a very needed sale of real estate, basically pushing the buyer to a decision, by giving a "very verbal" ultimatum (Like: you have 48 hours to buy -or don't call again to waste my time). It worked -but I swear, if I was the buyer, I would have skipped the deal.

Anyone had a similar experience with that stuff?

When my cortisol is high, combo of bad sleep with addition of stims. I get more aggressive, more irate, and a shorter fuse.

 

[MrKleen73]

You think it is the spike in cortisol?

Not sure what it is but certain stims are worse for me. Make me on edge and aggressive more of a long fight or flight response than just being stimmed by caffeine or something.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Not sure what it is but certain stims are worse for me. Make me on edge and aggressive more of a long fight or flight response than just being stimmed by caffeine or something.

There is also a relation with the fight/flight response and a rise in cortisol. I assume ephedra raises cortisol more than caffiene.

 

[MrKleen73]

I tend to crash hard off of that type too when I finally come down. Also just a thought HGP do you think the fasting could have reset your adrenals to the point you are just a lot more sensitive and don't need that much at a time now to do the job?
Spurfy any chance of this?

 

[jtmass]

I have never had a problem with DMAA or any type of stimulants.. I have never tried pure ephedrine, because it was already banned by the time I got into working out and fitness.. I am generally a bit short tempered. But, stimuldntsnever aggrevated the anger in anyway

 

[ValiantThor08]

I have never had a problem with DMAA or any type of stimulants.. I have never tried pure ephedrine, because it was already banned by the time I got into working out and fitness.. I am generally a bit short tempered. But, stimuldntsnever aggrevated the anger in anyway

With DMAA and DMHA it seems to be easier on me than high caffiene and other stims.

 

[hairygrandpa]

There is also a relation with the fight/flight response and a rise in cortisol. I assume ephedra raises cortisol more than caffiene.

I doubt that to be the issue in my case. I had bad panic attacks in the past (fight/flight response) that I finally got rid off by prescribing myself testosterone. If that response were triggered by a stim, I would directly go into full blown panic. For me its: getting paralyzed (can't react to a given situation, no matter what), arrhythmia, feeling like dying, BP falls. I now had a constant fight response, so pronounced, that I got away with anything (insults to people, verbal warnings about to get beaten up in the next second ...), because I must really look like I would -and- I would....THAT is what scared me most.

I tend to crash hard off of that type too when I finally come down. Also just a thought HGP do you think the fasting could have reset your adrenals to the point you are just a lot more sensitive and don't need that much at a time now to do the job?
Spurfy any chance of this?

No idea. I always thought "adrenal fatigue" is pseudo science -until now. Have to look into it again.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

I'm no bodybuilder, but heavy unilateral seated rows with a strong emphasis on starting the movement by pulling from the lower lat really hits the lat hard. The trick is to set the seat really high, hold on with your other hand, brace your core, stretch forward with the working arm and start the movement with your lat by pulling before there is any elbow flexion, then try and hold the weight for a half second at full contraction.