The case for DMAA - thoughts?

[rtmilburn]

Existing

What??????

 

[Johnold]

Forget DMAA, focus on DMHA

 

[danielmoo]

Forget DMAA, focus on DMHA

No thx

 

[Johnold]

Yeah but the fda will keep on fighting DMAA.

 

[danielmoo]

Yeah but the fda will keep on fighting DMAA.

True. I guess if you're a fan of DMHA, it would be worrying

 

[Johnold]

Its strong to me.

 

[Stimguy]

What does the fda's case for "not safe" consist of

Existing

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Existing

You mean existing in nature period, or existing in nature in feasible amounts to extract, or none of the above?

 

[thomasschnepp]

It will be gone soon unfortunately. Gone are the days of dusting products lol. :/

 

[rtmilburn]

So what's the word on the dmaa trial?

 

[VaughnTrue]

So what's the word on the dmaa trial?

we are in the middle of appealing the decision. legal challenges take time, this is far from over.

 

[Pipes]

Rock on

 

[Whacked]

However, there is evidence of the American Cancer Society suppressing what was once thought to be an effective treatment for cancer by way of a special diet that boosted immunity to crazy high levels. This treatment was devised by a man named Gerson. His daughter wrote a book on the diet and I have a co-worker whose wife successfully defeated stage 2 cancer this diet while dealing with MS simultaneously.

While there isn't tons of evidence for conspiracy, we can't call people crazy for thinking it - the money, and therefore the motive, is there for it not to mention other industries such as the statin drug/cholesterol-reducing industry has black listed a number of doctors that spoke up against the BS associated with high cholesterol and heart attacks and LDL being the "bad lipoproteins". It's not. Inflammation is. And that is caused by things like sugar, dairy, hydrogenated oils (trans fats), nitrates from preservatives in pre-packaged meals and alcohol. Pretty much everything the typical American diet consists of is what causes inflammation, which causes problems with arterial health, which causes problems with plaque build up. It was an assinine conclusion based on one single study that high cholesterol is the sole indicator of bad heart health, lol. Correlation does not equal causation! LDL cholesterol, which makes up 2/3 of total cholesterol, is a function of lean mass really and all those foods I just listed are plentiful and HIGH in calories which means kost people with high cholesterol are unhealthy due to tons of inflammation and arterial damage. This very message I just spelled out has been collectively and concertedly muffled by the pharma industry. So I don't count people's theories on cancer conspiracy as just nonsense. It's possible as it already happens in other industries.

With you 100%

 

[BlkScorpnFit]

...

 

[rtmilburn]

Not sure if anyone has seen it, but Jared Wheat was arrested yesterday and on the condition he stops selling products with DMAA in it, he was released on bail. Sucks man.... I would stock up now Ladies and Gents!

Honestly not to worried. He was arrested on trumped up charges, so he will get out. I believe this might make the dmaa case easier to win for hi-tech

 

[Nac]

Lol every man and his non-sponsored dog is jumping on the "STOCK UP NOW GUIZE!!" train

 

[Godstrength]

I'm not so sure this is a well he will beat it again scenario. They ain't playing and a judge obviously signed the warrant and agreed to the conditions of his release on bail that he can't sell any dmaa. I think hi techs number may be up regardless of how it looks. If its federal the charges will stick, they have an outrageous conviction rate. And the product in question can't possibly yield the amount required to make the cholesterol drug (lovastatin) in question with Red rice extract. Not to mention all this has to be rather expensive to fight the government in court. He was already ordered to pay 14 million once for past charges.

Also I would think dmaa based products is their major income source. Cutting them off from receiving any more money stops the flow of finances and will basically be cutting the throat of the company. With no operating capital I don't see how they can survive. Pretty sure the government knows this and its a calculated move to cut off the dmaa.

 

[ArenaSupps]

Yep, not good at all... HATE when the government interferes on peoples happiness :hammer:

 

[resrch3d]

So question for anyone who has experienced this or has an idea. I've been using stims for a while, dmaa since it's been out and not once have I ever had an issue with my heart...First time yesterday, I was hit about an hour after taking black cobra with fluttering heart my testing heart rate was all.over the place got up to 130 BPM sitting. I had sweats and nearly past out. Went to the ER, they pumped me with an IV, said over all same thing I always hear. I'm in good health and prob had bad interaction between the supplement and some ibuprofen I took. I tested the waters this morning half a cap of dexaprine instead of black cobra....Same feeling comes back, if I had taken a full dose dexaprine I'd prob been taking my ass back to the dr. This makes no sense to me. I have no heart issues I take some type of stim concauction daily - anyone else have this with dmaa products or stims in general. I'm gonna be bummed of I have to cut myself down to just caffeine lol. I also was taking tianeptine for a week but certainly that wouldn't have anything to do with this I wouldn't think, or could it?

 

[Godstrength]

So question for anyone who has experienced this or has an idea. I've been using stims for a while, dmaa since it's been out and not once have I ever had an issue with my heart...First time yesterday, I was hit about an hour after taking black cobra with fluttering heart my testing heart rate was all.over the place got up to 130 BPM sitting. I had sweats and nearly past out. Went to the ER, they pumped me with an IV, said over all same thing I always hear. I'm in good health and prob had bad interaction between the supplement and some ibuprofen I took. I tested the waters this morning half a cap of dexaprine instead of black cobra....Same feeling comes back, if I had taken a full dose dexaprine I'd prob been taking my ass back to the dr. This makes no sense to me. I have no heart issues I take some type of stim concauction daily - anyone else have this with dmaa products or stims in general. I'm gonna be bummed of I have to cut myself down to just caffeine lol. I also was taking tianeptine for a week but certainly that wouldn't have anything to do with this I wouldn't think, or could it?

Anxiety symptoms are often confused and mistaken with heart issues. They feel very similar (tightness in chest, chest pain, heart racing etc). Tianeptine is an antidepressant so if you took it for a week straight and came off you could experience some rebound anxiety mixed with the dmaa could definitely produce these effects. The good thing is you were checked out and they said your heart is fine so I point to anxiety as the culprit. Often with this the "fear" of something being wrong only makes things worse.

 

[ArenaSupps]

The thing is, FOLLOW the labels and you shouldn't have anything to worry about! I warn customers all the time to follow the label, it is there for your safety. I do however understand when you build up a tolerance to certain products you can take more than recommended, but some people take it to an extreme. A customer came into our store, popped demon dust, Dust X and then took a hellfire pill. He messaged me later and said he had the best workout of his life. Some people can handle more than others. I would have perished if I did the same...

 

[resrch3d]

Anxiety symptoms are often confused and mistaken with heart issues. They feel very similar (tightness in chest, chest pain, heart racing etc). Tianeptine is an antidepressant so if you took it for a week straight and came off you could experience some rebound anxiety mixed with the dmaa could definitely produce these effects. The good thing is you were checked out and they said your heart is fine so I point to anxiety as the culprit. Often with this the "fear" of something being wrong only makes things worse.

I assumed it was best to just not take tianeptine and closely monitor any stimulants i consume. It's crazy if tianeptine had that significant of an effect after a week of dosing. Hopefully this subsides after a few days, sucks not being able to use preworkouts or my other energy supps lol.

 

[rtmilburn]

So question for anyone who has experienced this or has an idea. I've been using stims for a while, dmaa since it's been out and not once have I ever had an issue with my heart...First time yesterday, I was hit about an hour after taking black cobra with fluttering heart my testing heart rate was all.over the place got up to 130 BPM sitting. I had sweats and nearly past out. Went to the ER, they pumped me with an IV, said over all same thing I always hear. I'm in good health and prob had bad interaction between the supplement and some ibuprofen I took. I tested the waters this morning half a cap of dexaprine instead of black cobra....Same feeling comes back, if I had taken a full dose dexaprine I'd prob been taking my ass back to the dr. This makes no sense to me. I have no heart issues I take some type of stim concauction daily - anyone else have this with dmaa products or stims in general. I'm gonna be bummed of I have to cut myself down to just caffeine lol. I also was taking tianeptine for a week but certainly that wouldn't have anything to do with this I wouldn't think, or could it?

It's the yohimbie that's in both of those imo that's stuff fuks with my heart and makes me feel like dick

 

[Kaprice]

I am really bummed out to hear this. I've just come to depend on Lipodrene Elite. It helps me sail through my day. Best fat loss supp I've ever taken.

I don't know what I'll do without it.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Lol every man and his non-sponsored dog is jumping on the "STOCK UP NOW GUIZE!!" train

Best publicity stunt of the decade

 

[fueledpassion]

I assumed it was best to just not take tianeptine and closely monitor any stimulants i consume. It's crazy if tianeptine had that significant of an effect after a week of dosing. Hopefully this subsides after a few days, sucks not being able to use preworkouts or my other energy supps lol.

It binds to the opioid receptor, so yes, it can easily cause dependency.

Also, to avoid issues with the heart and anxiety, two things will straighten that out perfectly:

L-Theanine @ 200-400mg per day
Trimetazidine @ 30-60mg per day

Voila!

 

[resrch3d]

It binds to the opioid receptor, so yes, it can easily cause dependency.

Also, to avoid issues with the heart and anxiety, two things will straighten that out perfectly:

L-Theanine @ 200-400mg per day
Trimetazidine @ 30-60mg per day

Voila!

I messed with phenibut and f phenibut too, had a similar issue just not near as bad and I didn't have to stop using stimulants like with this. I'm riding it out and being very careful on using much if any stims till this fully subsides. May stick to coffee only for a week.

L-theanine I can source but the trimetazidine not so readily. May snag some l-theanine to have with my coffee till this is completely over. The dependence thing is mind blowing - a class of product I will be avoiding in the future.

 

[fueledpassion]

I messed with phenibut and f phenibut too, had a similar issue just not near as bad and I didn't have to stop using stimulants like with this. I'm riding it out and being very careful on using much if any stims till this fully subsides. May stick to coffee only for a week.

L-theanine I can source but the trimetazidine not so readily. May snag some l-theanine to have with my coffee till this is completely over. The dependence thing is mind blowing - a class of product I will be avoiding in the future.

It's about a 1/5 as bad as Kratom w/d so it could be much, much worse...

Trimeta is good stuff in general though. A great performance enhancer too

 

[resrch3d]

It's about a 1/5 as bad as Kratom w/d so it could be much, much worse...

Trimeta is good stuff in general though. A great performance enhancer too

What's funny is I have Kratom and I have used it on a more regular basis in the past, never ended up withdrawing from it or having any sort of dependency like side effects.

I used tianeptine in the past but dosing was smaller and not used for any regular amount of time. I tried and liked vicaine and had no issues with that product. So I guess using just straight tia and not monitoring doses more closely was just a bad idea.

 

[Duality29]

I stocked up just in case, however my hopes are that since this whole issue was brought up from a ridiculous cause, it will hopefully be very quickly resolved

 

[resrch3d]

I stocked up just in case, however my hopes are that since this whole issue was brought up from a ridiculous cause, it will hopefully be very quickly resolved

I'm with you, I feel like hi tech is well eqipt to reverse what's happened and win even more out of it. That's the hope any way, insane that the FDA wants dmaa gone so bad...Wonder what the motivation is and who else is behind them pushing so hard to have it entirely off the market.

 

[YamahaC76]

I feel blindsided by this, I was really holding out until Black Friday for a BOGO, but no major supp retailer online even carries this anymore. A shame.

 

[Derek Wilson]

Great and helpful post with lots of important information.

 

[Pipes]

Man i still buy mesomorph on a regular, love the stuff.

 

[Pipes]

So to be clear... how is now different than before with the big dmaa scare? Last time it was back out very quickly, from what i understand it still is not actually banned right? Why is everyone liquidating and changing formulas to exclude it?

 

[YamahaC76]

So to be clear... how is now different than before with the big dmaa scare? Last time it was back out very quickly, from what i understand it still is not actually banned right? Why is everyone liquidating and changing formulas to exclude it?

No idea, but I grabbed what I could, because regardless the prices were good. I think retailers don't want to give the FDA reason to come knocking.

 

[Derek Wilson]

Nice one

 

[fueledpassion]

So to be clear... how is now different than before with the big dmaa scare? Last time it was back out very quickly, from what i understand it still is not actually banned right? Why is everyone liquidating and changing formulas to exclude it?

The FDA pulled a similar maneuver with Ephedrine years ago. They squawked about Ephedrine being dangerous before actually having studies to prove such and got Congress to ban it. Later, reseerch specialists came forward with actual data suggesting it was relatively safe and probably shouldn't even be a controlled sunstance. They lifted the ban but did so behind closed doors and did not make it public that they made a mistake or that the ban was lifted. People to this day still think it is illegal, lol.

While DMAA never had any legislation, the FDA stripped the DMAA out of GNC's warehouses without ANY legislation and refused to make a statement about it's legality. They wanted people to assume it was illegal & many did for a while. The only place I heard this news from was this website - hardly the proper channel to hear about something like this. Peope should know how unconstitutional our federal regulatory departments (FRD) really are. As far as I'm conerned, they're all a bunch of white-washed crooks that abuse their unelected, unconstitutional powers for their own existence and gain.

If the FDA had been under a decent presidential regime at the time - one that honors due process - a lot of things would not have happened the way they did. Eric Portratz @ Primordial Performance would still be around and innovating awesome anabolic concoctions for us. You can thank him by the way for all the DHEA prohormones.

This same tactic is played every day by the media against Trump and conservatives. They smear the crap outta something before the details come in and of course it takes headline news for a while then when the facts come in and they don't corroborate the initial story, the media very concertedly stops talking about it. They make no serious effort to correct themselves or their statements and the public at large goes on believing the first story, never understanding that the claims were wildly speculative and devious at best.

 

[uprightrows]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe ephedrine is illegal in products claiming to be dietary supplements, and can only be sold otc in preparations meant to treat medical conditions, the contents of which are supposedly regulated by the FDA. And I feel like the reason that supplement companies abandon ingredients isn't because they are duped into thinking they are illegal, rather fear that they will become illegal via some arbitrary dictum and leave them holding the bag on a product they can no longer sell when they should have read the writing on the wall.
Also not trying to get too much into politics here, but I think it is irrelevant which presidential regime the FDA functions under. It's purpose is still the same, stated or not it pretty much exists to remove or regulate any clinically effective ingredient with demonstrable side effects from open market. Mainly because as soon as any compound is truly effective, it is treating a medical condition which makes it a "drug", which falls under their purview. And they need to "protect" the consumer from using it improperly because a few people were either misinformed or knowingly reckless about how to use it.
And btw fueledpassion don't even get me started on trump (also not fair to lump him in with other actual/reasonable conservatives) cause we aren't going to agree on that. Let's just keep trying to agree on matters of physiology and mutual disdain or at the very least jaded cynicism for most government agencies

 

[fueledpassion]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe ephedrine is illegal in products claiming to be dietary supplements, and can only be sold otc in preparations meant to treat medical conditions, the contents of which are supposedly regulated by the FDA. And I feel like the reason that supplement companies abandon ingredients isn't because they are duped into thinking they are illegal, rather fear that they will become illegal via some arbitrary dictum and leave them holding the bag on a product they can no longer sell when they should have read the writing on the wall.
Also not trying to get too much into politics here, but I think it is irrelevant which presidential regime the FDA functions under. It's purpose is still the same, stated or not it pretty much exists to remove or regulate any clinically effective ingredient with demonstrable side effects from open market. Mainly because as soon as any compound is truly effective, it is treating a medical condition which makes it a "drug", which falls under their purview. And they need to "protect" the consumer from using it improperly because a few people were either misinformed or knowingly reckless about how to use it.
And btw fueledpassion don't even get me started on trump (also not fair to lump him in with other actual/reasonable conservatives) cause we aren't going to agree on that. Let's just keep trying to agree on matters of physiology and mutual disdain or at the very least jaded cynicism for most government agencies

Sure. To clarify, I don't pick a certain side and go to the grave with them though. I prefer to use critical thinking - sometimes I believe the orange man is right, sometimes I believe he is wildly incorrect. But in general, our federal agencies were given a sort of unfettered power over industries like no other era in history (except under Roosevelt) over this past past decade of administration.

Anyways, I agree. Trump isn't us, at least a good portion of the time he isn't lol. That said, I challenge your notion of speaking about politics in this thread - the way I see it, 100% of this topic is political in nature! I believe we should all be able to discuss even those ideological topics with each other and remain civil and, dare I say it, perhaps even like and respect each other more at the end of the conversation.

May the best ideas win the discussion!

 

[uprightrows]

I was simply saying I didn't want to go too much into politics (yet still I proceeded to), others braver or more foolhardy than I are more than welcome to take up that mantle lol. And I am all for discussion and critical thinking and hopefully out of this and here the best ideas will truly flourish!

 

[YamahaC76]

So does hi-tech appeal in about...2 weeks? From what Iv'e heard it's the same panel that took their appeal back in 2015

 

[drewsicle3210]

DMAA is a fine supplement. I bought a 100 grams back when it was still considered ‘legal’.
I toss it in occasionally during a cut or for some extra focus during a workout.

 

[bosskardo]

DMAA is a fine supplement. I bought a 100 grams back when it was still considered ‘legal’.
I toss it in occasionally during a cut or for some extra focus during a workout.

Hehe nice,
That's like over 5year supply.

 

[livetolift22]

Why do they always wanna ban the stuff that works?!

 

[Duality29]

“BREAKING: Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals has filed their OFFICIAL appeal against the United States Government in the FDA DMAA case!
https://blog.priceplow.com/dmaa-supplements/lawsuit

There's nothing "new" learned in the 89 page document, but it's plainly-written and very well-argued, and tells the story from the beginning.

Note that this is a SEPARATE ongoing legal battle compared to the #DMAA confiscation that was from the unrelated "Red Yeast Rice Raid"... but obviously both are important for Hi-Tech...”

 

[Nac]

Why do they always wanna ban the stuff that works?!

We still got creatine, brah

 

[livetolift22]

We still got creatine, brah

Lool.. and don't forget the Bcaa's

 

[Derek Wilson]

We still got creatine, brah

Great to know!

 

[fueledpassion]

Why do they always wanna ban the stuff that works?!

A few reasons, some with lots of supporting evidence, others from just my personal observations & intuition.

The obvious and widely-supported reason they ban what works is because large pharma corporations can't make money on it when its on the open market and as you'd expect, they lobby congress and pay the FDA/DEA (probably through shell companies & kick-backs). Examples?

That Red Yeast Rice extract was a good one that turns out had the active ingredient lovastatin and monocolin K found naturally in the supp - compounds that were marketed as a drug Mevacor. Mevacor cried to the feds that such a natural product existed as a $10 supplement rather than the absurd amount they charged as a result of cornering the market through what we call "prescriptions". So now, those supplement companies that sell RYR are supposed to remove the active ingredients before distribution of the product. Not all of them do, of course, but the legal noise certainly made everyone think it was being adequately regulated.

Another one in the works is Kratom. About a month or so after Smith Kline finished up with a super-concentrated extract of the active alkaloids in Kratom, the DEA goes to squealing about its dangers.... Right....

Then they make up a bunch of false claims to validate their position to ban it and so it goes.

As for synthetic masculine sex hormones - isn't it obvious why the government (and media) wants to rid these from our access? Given the war on manhood (and boyhood) and given that test and its derivatives cause positive benefits to our dopamine/serotonin output which leads to and encourages (in many) critical thinking, spatial thinking, memory function, reduction in depression & anxiety, & an increase in confidence.

Tell me, do you think the elite class wants the average joe to:

1) become stronger
2) become smarter
3) become more visually appealing

???? That's why such great things are "off limits" to society, lol, because over time, steroids address each of the things that the elite believe separates them from the rest. Smart, good-looking & influential (or powerful). Think about it.