Who wants a new BLR SERM?!

[QuinoaSucks]

Impatiently waiting...

There has to be a non-prescription chemical out there with SERM qualities that can substitute for traditional pct chems. There seems to be alternatives for almost every other class of chems be it AAS's, AI's, recreational things, why not a serm?

If there was one that really worked, there would be a windfall of cash for the company who brings it to market.

Also, why would the powers that be ever even try to ban it? SERMs don't build muscle and they're not recreational. The age old argument that we must "protect the children" wouldn't apply to a serm.

Plus no research chem companies, the most crooked basterds in this industry.

Please let this pan out to be more than just good marketing.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I know of about 2 or 3 different phytoserms. Elimistane currently has one of them, E.Cottoni extract.

Im eager to see how this pans out. A lot of times just because it acts like a SERM doesnt mean it can reverse a hypogonadal state in men.

 

[brundel]

I can tell you for 100% certain that its a serm and in studies at least is as good as any other
Ive already tested it on about a dozen people and it certainly works great for PCT. Can you link the studies indicating E cottoni is a SERM?
I cant seem to find one.

I know of literally dozens of phytoserms......the problem is most are active to some degree.
This means that while they bind selectively to receptors they exhibit estrogenic activity.
This is the opposite of what we want. We want them to bind, preventing E2 from binding, yet have no activity.
Just because it works as a SERM does NOT mean its good for our purpose. It would need to be extensively tested to see how it worked in the real world. Thus far there are very few of these.

 

[brundel]

We need someone who is coming off cycle who is willing to run labs. Oh and also has insurance. Labs are not cheap but with insurance its not bad.
Everyone I know personally never comes off so.....

The goal being to see a before lab where levels are tanked and an after where its normal or high.

 

[Goliath1]

We need someone who is coming off cycle who is willing to run labs. Oh and also has insurance. Labs are not cheap but with insurance its not bad. Everyone I know personally never comes off so..... The goal being to see a before lab where levels are tanked and an after where its normal or high.

Cut the ****, I gave you the chance..
Stop talking about it and release it or be quiet.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Certaintly my good man

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814611010156

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01635581.2013.756528#.VF-0soe9ZEc

Those are two right off the bat and should point you in the right direction as far as research. To my knowledge it is still relatively under-studied, and I really havent found any good human trials yet.

Were bloods run pre and post cycle? And was it used in conjuction with another SERM like clomid or tamox?

 

[brundel]

Cut the ****, I gave you the chance..
Stop talking about it and release it or be quiet.

Your negativity in PM disqualified you. Sorry. I dont feel confident I can trust you
Ill release it when Im good and ready.

 

[Goliath1]

Your negativity in PM disqualified you. Sorry. I dont feel confident I can trust you Ill release it when Im good and ready.

Lmao Alright Man...

Enough said..

 

[abformulations]

This will be good im sure. I trust this man.

 

[koi1214]

Certaintly my good man

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814611010156

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01635581.2013.756528#.VF-0soe9ZEc

Those are two right off the bat and should point you in the right direction as far as research. To my knowledge it is still relatively under-studied, and I really havent found any good human trials yet.

Were bloods run pre and post cycle? And was it used in conjuction with another SERM like clomid or tamox?

Nice find.

 

[brundel]

Certaintly my good man

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814611010156

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01635581.2013.756528#.VF-0soe9ZEc

Those are two right off the bat and should point you in the right direction as far as research. To my knowledge it is still relatively under-studied, and I really havent found any good human trials yet.

Were bloods run pre and post cycle? And was it used in conjuction with another SERM like clomid or tamox?

If my calculations are correct youll need about 1700mg to meet the dose used in the second study.
Maybe Ill get some of this stuff and run some trials with it. If what Im using now is good....and E cottoni is also viable a combo would be a good idea.
I guess price is a determining factor.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Well the question is....how confident are you that this will indeed function as a legitimate SERM alternative?

You are essentially asking someone to risk their PCT, I can understand why people are tentative. Maybe someone running a lighter anabolic like ostarine may be willing.

I would throw my ballot into the hat but Im running my post PCT bloods soon so I am not a good candidate. I also will probably wait some time before running an ostarine cycle being I dont want to run back to back suppressive cycles.

 

[brundel]

This will be good im sure. I trust this man.

Youll be much more confident shortly. Im gonna send you a sample to run for your PCT.
Feel free to let people know exactly what you think. If you love it....say so....if you hate it...also please tell everyone.
I want to make certain we have the best possible product before I sell it to people.

 

[koi1214]

Youll be much more confident shortly. Im gonna send you a sample to run for your PCT.
Feel free to let people know exactly what you think. If you love it....say so....if you hate it...also please tell everyone.
I want to make certain we have the best possible product before I sell it to people.

Good man.

 

[brundel]

Well the question is....how confident are you that this will indeed function as a legitimate SERM alternative?

You are essentially asking someone to risk their PCT, I can understand why people are tentative. Maybe someone running a lighter anabolic like ostarine may be willing.

I would throw my ballot into the hat but Im running my post PCT bloods soon so I am not a good candidate. I also will probably wait some time before running an ostarine cycle being I dont want to run back to back suppressive cycles.

Oh Im 100% confident. Ive given it to guys who ran huge steroid cycles and they recovered quickly.
I dont want a soft product. If it wont work for a guy who ran a big cycle there is no point IMO. I want to be sure itll work under ANY circumstance.
Not just osta

 

[brundel]

Also....this is on a whole other topic....
Ive been injured and out of the gym since july 4.

just started back in the gym yesterday. Benched 135 and Im sore lol.
I plan on running a short cut to get rid of this gut then run a Follidrone log. I cant run any steroids so itlll be Follidrone only.
Lets see what happens to me personally.

After seeing whats happened to everyone else Im pretty excited. Feels like Im planning a cycle.
Im fat and weak currently but I have muscle memory on my side. Should be interesting.

 

[koi1214]

Also....this is on a whole other topic....
Ive been injured and out of the gym since july 4.

just started back in the gym yesterday. Benched 135 and Im sore lol.
I plan on running a short cut to get rid of this gut then run a Follidrone log. I cant run any steroids so itlll be Follidrone only.
Lets see what happens to me personally.

After seeing whats happened to everyone else Im pretty excited. Feels like Im planning a cycle.
Im fat and weak currently but I have muscle memory on my side. Should be interesting.

You logging it here?

 

[brundel]

Yup.

 

[brundel]

Im gonna wait until I get into the swing. Maybe 2 weeks.
Right now Im super weak. Again I just went in and benched 135 x 3...some flys...and a few tri rope extentions and Im super sore.
Itll take a couple weeks probably for my body to remember IM a bodybuilder.
I took before pictures. Unsure if Ill post em of not.
Well see. They are...terrible.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I dont want to seem confrontational, but how do you know they recovered quickly?

Im making an assumption that no bloods were run being that you are still looking for people to run bloods for PCT. If my assumption is incorrect, please let me know.

 

[Goliath1]

I wasn't trying to be an ass, even though I was..

I like BLR products, but that's a bold claim and we talked via pm and worked everything out, or at least I thought.. Then you stopped answering, you seemed hesitant when you found out about all of the compounds I had used..

You also tried to keep putting up certain restrictions and guidelines pm after pm... Even when I agreed to all the terms, you failed to provide the product and your own agreements..

That's why I'm talking ****..

 

[brundel]

I dont want to seem confrontational, but how do you know they recovered quickly?

Im making an assumption that no bloods were run being that you are still looking for people to run bloods for PCT. If my assumption is incorrect, please let me know.

No bloods were run.
Im basing it off of conversations daily with the guys running it.
One was a guy I was training for a while. Post cycle I made him wait 3 weeks for long esters to clear and he was miserable.
Tired, weak, depressed, erectile dysfunction.
After 2 weeks using the SERM all symptoms were no longer present. At 3 he started growing and gaining strength. Not bad. At the end of the PCT he had actually gained weight and strength.
So we have only empirical evidence firsthand, however, there are also tons of studies indicating it works and.....I actually know of cancer patients who use it instead of tamox. There were some hurdles to overcome as like e cottoni (apparently) it takes 1500-2000mg to work which causes GI issues for most.
There are of course ways to get around absorption issues and we have addressed this.

 

[brundel]

I wasn't trying to be an ass, even though I was..

I like BLR products, but that's a bold claim and we talked via pm and worked everything out, or at least I thought.. Then you stopped answering, you seemed hesitant when you found out about all of the compounds I had used..

You also tried to keep putting up certain restrictions and guidelines pm after pm... Even when I agreed to all the terms, you failed to provide the product and your own agreements..

That's why I'm talking ****..

You were abnormally negative and confrontational via Pm for no reason.
THis isnt what Im looking for. Nothing personal.

 

[Melbar Kasom]

I wish it will work as announced.

 

[abformulations]

Youll be much more confident shortly. Im gonna send you a sample to run for your PCT. Feel free to let people know exactly what you think. If you love it....say so....if you hate it...also please tell everyone. I want to make certain we have the best possible product before I sell it to people.

I appreciate that bruh. Looking forward to it. I will be 100% truthful as always.

I got you and everyone else

 

[brundel]

I appreciate that bruh. Looking forward to it. I will be 100% truthful as always.

I got you and everyone else

I may.....just might send you something else for testing.
Are you sensitive to stims? How much caffeine can you tolerate?

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

No bloods were run.
Im basing it off of conversations daily with the guys running it.
One was a guy I was training for a while. Post cycle I made him wait 3 weeks for long esters to clear and he was miserable.
Tired, weak, depressed, erectile dysfunction.
After 2 weeks using the SERM all symptoms were no longer present. At 3 he started growing and gaining strength. Not bad. At the end of the PCT he had actually gained weight and strength.
So we have only empirical evidence firsthand, however, there are also tons of studies indicating it works and.....I actually know of cancer patients who use it instead of tamox. There were some hurdles to overcome as like e cottoni (apparently) it takes 1500-2000mg to work which causes GI issues for most.
There are of course ways to get around absorption issues and we have addressed this.

Gotcha. Did he run anything along side it? Or was it the only thing he used PCT?

 

[brundel]

Gotcha. Did he run anything along side it? Or was it the only thing he used PCT?

Solo.

 

[brundel]

A couple guys ran it with formeron and viron and stated it was better than the cycle the had run

 

[koi1214]

I may.....just might send you something else for testing.
Are you sensitive to stims? How much caffeine can you tolerate?

I like stims and high tolerance:Eyecrazy:

 

[abformulations]

I may.....just might send you something else for testing. Are you sensitive to stims? How much caffeine can you tolerate?

Not at all. Stim junkie. As a matter fact i laid of caffeine for a week now.

At once? 425 has been my tops

I'm wit it bro. Bring it on ;-)

 

[abformulations]

A couple guys ran it with formeron and viron and stated it was better than the cycle the had run

Viron and formeron is part of my pct. I love both products.

 

[ELROCK]

A couple guys ran it with formeron and viron and stated it was better than the cycle the had run

Didn't someone here on AM run it on their PCT a little while back?

 

[koi1214]

Didn't someone here on AM run it on their PCT a little while back?

Wasn't flightposite that ran it?

 

[brundel]

Yes
Ive already let several guys on this forum run the SERM for their PCT.
And a dozen not on this forum.

 

[brundel]

Wasn't flightposite that ran it?

I forget but there was more than one.

 

[brundel]

Not at all. Stim junkie. As a matter fact i laid of caffeine for a week now.

At once? 425 has been my tops

I'm wit it bro. Bring it on ;-)

Good.
Its not caffeine but this was just to judge your stim tolerance.
I doubt you have used these stims.

Ill probably send you a couple things to try.

Working on the PWO.

 

[abformulations]

Good. Its not caffeine but this was just to judge your stim tolerance. I doubt you have used these stims. Ill probably send you a couple things to try. Working on the PWO.

I knew where that question was going. Lol. Had a feeling. Awesome. Hit me with what u got brotha

 

[kenpoengineer]

Another E Cottinii study for research:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23441613/

 

[BCseacow83]

Im gonna wait until I get into the swing. Maybe 2 weeks.
Right now Im super weak. Again I just went in and benched 135 x 3...some flys...and a few tri rope extentions and Im super sore.
Itll take a couple weeks probably for my body to remember IM a bodybuilder.
I took before pictures. Unsure if Ill post em of not.
Well see. They are...terrible.

I always take the before but wait till I have the afters to post them lol.

 

[BCseacow83]

I know I chimed in towards the beginning of this thread but this something I am very interested in still. Of all the AI's and Serms out there Nolva makes the most dramatic improvement in my appearance. I would stay on it all the time if there were not potential health risks in doing so. Therefore I am looking forward to trying this product. I am in the process of making the long shift to a more natural status so keeping my eye on this release. Follidrone already gives me the feeling I get pump and fullness wise of a good oral DS/PH without making me feel like donkey dick the whole time. Have yet to try the Viron but will be doing so soon. With Folli playing the role of "oral" the serm playing the role of "nolva" and perhaps the viron for a "test base." This sounds like a pretty sweet version of "natural" to me.

 

[braskibra]

I hope your on to something but tbh there s a lot of smart people out there that haven't been able to develop an OTC serm

I don't do bloods I typically do saliva and pin prick cheaper convenient and has been reliable and valid at least in my case

 

[BCseacow83]

I hope your on to something but tbh there s a lot of smart people out there that haven't been able to develop an OTC serm

I don't do bloods I typically do saliva and pin prick cheaper convenient and has been reliable and valid at least in my case

I am not sure how much real time and effort has gone into looking for a SERM. It is such a small amount of the overall supp using public who even knows what a SERM is let alone interested in using one regularly. I personally love serms but it's not going to sell like a shiny fat burner or some run of the mill mega pump ultra stim preworkout. I think the limited market for this has probably made actual effort put towards discovery limited. Brundel likes to find us cool stuff and if it can be done I have faith.

 

[braskibra]

I am not sure how much real time and effort has gone into looking for a SERM. It is such a small amount of the overall supp using public who even knows what a SERM is let alone interested in using one regularly. I personally love serms but it's not going to sell like a shiny fat burner or some run of the mill mega pump ultra stim preworkout. I think the limited market for this has probably made actual effort put towards discovery limited. Brundel likes to find us cool stuff and if it can be done I have faith.

Don't really see it being different then the PH scene or AI scene, and there's tons of those

 

[BCseacow83]

The market for anabolics is far greater than a SERM. You could add all the money ever made selling OTC AI's and I bet you could pick one DS, let's say Hdrol and it alone has out sold dollar wise all AI's. Is there a market for this? Absolutely but IMO it is no where close to an actual DS/PH.

 

[abformulations]

It's not a mainstream thing. Newbs who come here don't know what a SERM is until they see the word serm.

Guaranteed if this is amazing we will see copy cats and it'll more mainstream and in supp stores like orbit.

This is money for sure

 

[Grayson]

It's not a mainstream thing. Newbs who come here don't know what a SERM is until they see the word serm.

Guaranteed if this is amazing we will see copy cats and it'll more mainstream and in supp stores like orbit.

This is money for sure

Indeed. And I wish blr all the best, but what's going to happen when big pharma comes knocking?

 

[BCseacow83]

Indeed. And I wish blr all the best, but what's going to happen when big pharma comes knocking?

Not sure that would really be an issue. Say this works as well as Nolva. No one practicing medicine in their right mind would prescribe a OTC SERM with no clinical research behind it vs a very well established cancer drug. Anyone doing this is looking to lose their licence. Also the likely hood of oncologists even knowing about a BLR product is pretty slim. Due to this I do not see pharma feeling a threat to their market share. I could be wrong of course but I think as long as this is not a synthetic chemical masquerading as a natural product then I think we are good.

 

[brundel]

Here is the thing. THis stuff isnt new.
Others have used it in products in the past. Several actually. The problem has been dose.
I know of one who used 25mg tabs. My research indicates we need 1000mg + for it to be viable so 25mg is laughable.
It also causes side effects at this dose (above 1000mg) so we needed to alter it to a degree to alleviate this problem.
In its current state it seems to be side effect free and work at 200mg comparable to 1000-1400mg.

This is absolutely not a synthetic and although it has been modified it still retains its chemical structure.

I dont think big Pharma sees me as a threat.
Supp companies perhaps. RC companies perhaps. Big pharma makes money hand over fist and no reasonable oncologist will prescribe a dietary supplement.

 

[brundel]

Also it looks like E cottoni is SUPER cheap. Like....I thought it was a joke when I saw the price.
So I could include it in the mix for pretty much nothing. Like...20 cents per bottle or something.