The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

I'm going to step outside on this one and say that if you are more concerned with adding lean mass then the bcaas are good so long as you aren't taking in 20-30 g multiple times a day, but if you are more concerned with adding fat loss, only after weights.

even if you are trying to do both, you still have a preference, and the bcaas will help spike protein synthesis, but also can spike insulin. So a plus to muscle gain, perhaps a slight minus to fat loss.
 
EasyEJL said:
I'm going to step outside on this one and say that if you are more concerned with adding lean mass then the bcaas are good so long as you aren't taking in 20-30 g multiple times a day, but if you are more concerned with adding fat loss, only after weights.

even if you are trying to do both, you still have a preference, and the bcaas will help spike protein synthesis, but also can spike insulin. So a plus to muscle gain, perhaps a slight minus to fat loss.
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I would say this covers all the bases as far as an answer goes.
 
EasyEJL said:
I'm going to step outside on this one and say that if you are more concerned with adding lean mass then the bcaas are good so long as you aren't taking in 20-30 g multiple times a day, but if you are more concerned with adding fat loss, only after weights.

even if you are trying to do both, you still have a preference, and the bcaas will help spike protein synthesis, but also can spike insulin. So a plus to muscle gain, perhaps a slight minus to fat loss.
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Since leucine converts eventually to ketones, why not use it pre-wo (stacking it with arginine, citrulline, glutamine, etc.) during the fasting window, and then do the BCAAs immediately pwo when insulin sensitivity. The only problem is that as soon as your insulin spikes, you cancel the pwo GH release. The only way around that would be to wait an hour pwo before taking them, but then that's when you refeed.

I tried posting on leangains several times, but the post never showed up for whatever reason.
 
mcs5309 said:
Since leucine converts eventually to ketones, why not use it pre-wo (stacking it with arginine, citrulline, glutamine, etc.) during the fasting window, and then do the BCAAs immediately pwo when insulin sensitivity. The only problem is that as soon as your insulin spikes, you cancel the pwo GH release. The only way around that would be to wait an hour pwo before taking them, but then that's when you refeed.

I tried posting on leangains several times, but the post never showed up for whatever reason.
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eventually as you try to tweak further and further you are getting to a place where spending a bunch of time, effort, energy and stress on something that will make ounces of difference over the span of a year. Sometimes I wonder if the cortisol generated in worrying about it doesn't cancel the effect of some manipulations :)

If you are a tested natural athlete whose living is competition it might be worthwhile, but even then I doubt it. The body is a complex piece of equipment, no change exists in a vacuum, and your body strives for homestasis. So no small change makes huge differences. Making big changes that are easy to comply with like intermittent fasting works well because its pretty easy to maintain regardless of circumstances.

Its a piece of "Skinny White Boy Syndrome", sooner or later i'll finish the article i started writing on it.
 
Really most times if you are working out for 45-60 minutes with intensity you have not only signaled the release of GH but are mid GH spike by the end of the workout. On top of that even the aminos take some time to get into the system through the walls of the intestines. SO taking in amino acids post workout is really not going to be blunting much of anything since the pattern in GH release is peaking by 30 minutes then falling off at an extremely rapid pace. It is the lactic acid built up from the workout that triggers the release, not the "end" of the workout.

If your goal is to make the most of your GH it needs to have some substrate to use for building muscle when it signals the muscle to produce IGF-1 locally. If I were to split hairs I would tell you to use 5-10 grams of L-Glutamine pre workout, and take your aminos 15-30 minutes post workout, preferably higher luecine content. Ingesting at least 2 grams of L-Glutamine not only increases protein synthesis, but will also cause a GH spike 60-90 minutes post ingestion. It is also the amino acid that cortisol attacks to create ATP, hence the Glu prefix. It is the easiest to break down into useable energy.

However Scivation Extend is more than sufficient for both times and tastes great so it is what I use. Pre workout so I get the added benefit of the Glutamine to create a larger GH spike and 2:1:1 BCAA profile for the fast acting bmuscle building substrate. One scoop contains 2.5 grams L-Glutamine, 3500 Leucine, 1750 L-Isoleucine, 1750 L-Valine, 1000 Citruline Malate, and Vitamin B6

One should also note that as far as GH release goes, both protein and carbs cause an insulin release. Protein does not blunt GH release, however Carbs do. Also Fat does not cause an insulin release yet fat blunts GH release much more severely than carbs do. So it is not just as simple as insulin when talking about things that blunt the GH release. Also keep in mind that blunting means the spike is not at sharp, not that it will not happen.
 
Kleen... Damn you are one educated/knowledgable Mo-Fo, you need your own Channel Bro! If/When you ever decide to join the FINAFLEX team, you will get your own Thread for sure, I think we'll call it "Ask Mini-Me for Advice" Bahahahaha, no seriously "Kleen's Advice Corner" or the "Kleen Help Center" Chime in if you have better suggestions, not feeling very witty this morning, LoL!
"
 
I like the Kleen help center lol...has a nice ring to it.
 
TurningGreen said:
I like the Kleen help center lol...has a nice ring to it.
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And remember kids, for good Kleen advice, you can always rely on the "Kleen Help Center" for kids who don't learn so well and stuff!

 
Distilled Water said:
I did train fasted a few times (way vacation worked out) and I felt a lot better the rest of the day when doing that and can HAMMER food post workout. Hence my Friday cheat meals of a large pizza & Pepsi with bread sticks :-D
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I did my first fasted training session on Sunday before football started and i was amazed when i did not turn into a pumpkin... I actually had an amazing workout after i got passed the shakes...
 
huggy77 said:
I did my first fasted training session on Sunday before football started and i was amazed when i did not turn into a pumpkin... I actually had an amazing workout after i got passed the shakes...
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Yeah I actually feel way worse if I train non-fasted
 
This is my first week trying Leangains/IF. I am a person that ALWAYS had to have breakfast, within 15 minutes of waking up...so I was kind of nervous to start this. I wake at 4:45am. 10g BCAA. Workout 5:30am. 10g BCAA. Feed 12-8pm...2 meals with a snack. I benched yesterday, and felt strong as ever. 275x5, 255 x 6, 235x 6, 225 x 8. Jumped on the scale this morning and I'm down 2lbs. I didn't watch my macros much other than purposely eating higher carbs on lifting days, and keeping them low on my rest days.

Long story short, I love it. I'm definitely going to stick to it and see how it goes. As someone who gains weight by walking past a donut, I'm hoping this is the perfect solution for me. In the next few weeks I'll dial my macros in better as well.
 
Have a dilemma.

I'm going to work 2maro (double time pay) 7am-3pm. It's supposed to be a carb up with a depletion workout be4 my carb up (break fast at 11am)

Should I just try and push my fast to after work and do my depletion workou after than carb up until bed? Or just say f it and do it Sunday and eat 2maro per norm, high fat/pro?

Orrrr just carb up starting at 11?
 
Distilled Water said:
Have a dilemma.

I'm going to work 2maro (double time pay) 7am-3pm. It's supposed to be a carb up with a depletion workout be4 my carb up (break fast at 11am)

Should I just try and push my fast to after work and do my depletion workou after than carb up until bed? Or just say f it and do it Sunday and eat 2maro per norm, high fat/pro?

Orrrr just carb up starting at 11?
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Workout before work, 10-20g leucine or bcaas until you break your fast then carb up. You stuck with IF huh?
 
I'm lov'in I.F. I'm kinda being able to almost eat what I want and still burning fat slowly while still slowly building muscle. I've gotten my body accustomed to eating twice a day, I train in the evening so I also have my shakes pre and post workout.
 
I already picked up the usp bcaa. I got some questions, will be starting my fast sunday night. Do i have to take my total daily cals with in that 7-8 hr window. I was going to try an even split on my macros. Do i go over/under on cals. Going for a cut/ recomp
 
Hey guys, quick question. How long can you fast without burning muscle? I was thinking of fasting all day Sunday and train around 9 am Monday morning fasted. Would this be a bad idea?
 
murk01 said:
I already picked up the usp bcaa. I got some questions, will be starting my fast sunday night. Do i have to take my total daily cals with in that 7-8 hr window. I was going to try an even split on my macros. Do i go over/under on cals. Going for a cut/ recomp
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Look at onepercentedge dot com for macro breakdowns. Yes eat everything in the 8hr window, no eat in the 16hrs, just zero cal liquids.
 
lobcity said:
Hey guys, quick question. How long can you fast without burning muscle? I was thinking of fasting all day Sunday and train around 9 am Monday morning fasted. Would this be a bad idea?
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Do you think you will be able to after that long a fast???
 
lobcity said:
Hey guys, quick question. How long can you fast without burning muscle? I was thinking of fasting all day Sunday and train around 9 am Monday morning fasted. Would this be a bad idea?
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I played around with fasting from Thursday night, until Saturday morning towards the end of my last "diet". I experienced no real muscle loss. However its worth mentioning I would come into a MASSIVE refeed, I would also "pulse" a pepto pro concoction I made up through this "fast".

Also if you are natural vs "enhanced" would be worth mentioning.
 
I did lean gains 3 days a week and HIIT on off days and lost 3% body fat and kept virtually all my strength and lean muscle in 2 months time.

If you're cutting I'd recommend it but other than that it's really hard to make any notable progress. The RPT style didn't work for me at all even following the LG bulking guidelines. :/
 
First day leangains fasted last night till 1pm today. Started getting head aches an hr or so after first meal. Now 6:20 still having aches any info i assume it has to do with insulin
 
murk01 said:
First day leangains fasted last night till 1pm today. Started getting head aches an hr or so after first meal. Now 6:20 still having aches any info i assume it has to do with insulin
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How's your water intake?
 
Please come and welcome our new FINAFLEX Team Members... Invalid Link Removed
 
live to lift said:
I did for cutting but now im bulking using the old school 6 meal method
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Same here. I actually did two weeks of iF just to get back in the swing of preparing and eating clean meals to maintain the muscle I have gained since completing my season.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
i still do it while bulking......i liek to eat so i do it although once schoool starts again i may go to a few bigger meals ratehr thanteh 1 huge meal i eat now.... still will be IF like might only be a 12 hour fast
 
I have been steady for over 18 months and it has allowed me to stay leaner than ever...
 
Have never quit, new way of life for me. Do now variations of it depending on my goals. Carb Backloading or plain ol' simple low carbs, depending on what I'm gunning for.

Breakfast is no more for me, unless I'm on vacation and they have that delicious breakfast buffet... then I workout in the morning and eat right after.
 
Wtf do y'all do if like a friends birthday party dosent fit in ur eating window or like ur girlfriend wants to go out for breakfast / lunch ?
 
Borispili said:
Wtf do y'all do if like a friends birthday party dosent fit in ur eating window or like ur girlfriend wants to go out for breakfast / lunch ?
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Self control mostly...

But the world won't end if you end up having one meal out of the feeding window.
 
Agreed...one day of eating out of your eating window isn't going to make a noticeable difference whatsoever. Its consistency with the diet that really matters.
 
Borispili said:
Wtf do y'all do if like a friends birthday party dosent fit in ur eating window or like ur girlfriend wants to go out for breakfast / lunch ?
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One critical part is to put your eating window in a spot that covers you most of the time. I'd worry less about how much before or after my workout my eating starts than what span of time each day is the most natural for me to be eating and will cause the least social stress. But an occasional break of timing here or there isn't that big a deal. But occasional to me is once to twice a month tops. Overall too I have the gut feeling that stopping eating an hour later for a party or something has less negative effect than eating earlier, just on how it affects total fast time
 
Milas said:
Subbed in for an epic thread! I'm on LG now, been on for a few weeks, and it's great! A lot of freedom in eating during my window, and staying lean!

I workout in the morning (6AM), so it was a concern that I wouldn't get a post-workout shake in until 4-6 hours later, but that doesn't seem to be a problem yet! BCAA are a must though!
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Im getting ready to start LG and I too Im worried about the Pre and Post Shakes. I train at (5am) and would like to break the fast at 11am... SO just want to make sure Im understanding properly... The only thing I would consume is BCAA's up to my first meal @ 11am? SO no Pre and Post workout shakes??

Thanks!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Amen, I do my training between 4:30-5:45AM so no time for anything but some aminos about 4:00 and some every 2 hours beyond until I break my fast. I also find that s shorter eating window is not a problem anymore for me. I can get my cals in 6 hours if needed. On cardio days if I am feeling a low day I may only have 2 meals getting me to 1500-1700 cals and be done. If I am not hungry I just don't add the last meal in or just have some cottage cheese.
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Any issues with muscle loss? I too workout at 5am and Im concerned about muscle loss?
 
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