mkretz
Well-known member
i was wondeirng how it woudl be after liek a no carb day...im gonna be doin it, jsut gotta keep it outta my head, def. can get too into it mentally
The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log
- Thread starter MrKleen73
- Start date
i was wondeirng how it woudl be after liek a no carb day...im gonna be doin it, jsut gotta keep it outta my head, def. can get too into it mentally
RickRock13
Well-known member
mkretz said:
I do this at least 2 times per week. Its pretty routine for me to go little to no carbs on a burn day, then turn around and have a depleted, fasted training session the next day. I've never seen my performance suffer much from it, but it has been affected before, especially if I did quite a bit of cardio on the burn day. It will be such a small difference in performance though that really won't matter compared to the nice benefits from having the no Carb during the burn day
jhferry
Member
I searched the thread for low carbers but didnt really get my answers. Reading the leangains site Martin seems pretty high on carbs. Is there a plan for Paleo types?
Also the high amount of BCAAs is just if you train in a fasted state or is 30g needed for anyone following leangains.
Last is there a way for people who train at night and work to do this?
Also the high amount of BCAAs is just if you train in a fasted state or is 30g needed for anyone following leangains.
Last is there a way for people who train at night and work to do this?
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
Yes on the Paleo thing, as long as u follow macros
Yes on the BCAA read the first page on training fasted, I still sip on BCAAs before and after fasted or not
Why not train early morning instead?
jhferry
Member
I have 2 little ones and a brutal commute to work. I take the little ones to school so its really hard to workout in the morning. I guess I could give it a shot. Is there a guide on breaking down the macros?
Got it on the fasted training. Martin calls it a meal even though its just the BCAAs. So for Paleo people, we just dont carb up per Martins recommendation. So how does one properly follow macros?
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
Paleo u still eat a lot of fruit and veggies don't u? I can't make a call on that one but I've seen em on google a few months back, Paleo ppl doing leangains ...
U could adjust ur meals so ur last meal will be right after ur workout ... All it is ... Fast 16 hours feast for 8 .... Doesnt matter what times, just stick to the same times every day
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
I have - only not veges, but carbohydrates only from cottage cheese, almonds, and MuscleGels. And I always train fasted. My lifts are not really affected too much the next day - then again, I'm not training for strength either, and I use Assault ~30 min pre-training. All you can do is try it and see what happens - you really need to do it a couple of times to really know, and once you do, that's a judgement call YOU have to make on what is going to be best for YOU.
~Rosie~
Jordinator
Member
I love the idea of this. I always preferred training fasted and thought I was a freak or something. In any case my job has me working until 8pm, and I like to train in the early afternoon, usually 12-2pm. Would it be alright if I didn't eat until I got off work? Or is that waiting too long postworkout to have calories? I always drink iBCAA pre/during/post workouts.
I guess my real question is this:
Have there been any studies that show you can rebuild (or cannot rebuild muscle) in a fasted state?
If this has been answered previously I apologize. I intend to skim through this thread at some point but it's practically a book
I guess my real question is this:
Have there been any studies that show you can rebuild (or cannot rebuild muscle) in a fasted state?
If this has been answered previously I apologize. I intend to skim through this thread at some point but it's practically a book
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
I love the idea of this. I always preferred training fasted and thought I was a freak or something. In any case my job has me working until 8pm, and I like to train in the early afternoon, usually 12-2pm. Would it be alright if I didn't eat until I got off work? Or is that waiting too long postworkout to have calories? I always drink iBCAA pre/during/post workouts.
I guess my real question is this:
Have there been any studies that show you can rebuild (or cannot rebuild muscle) in a fasted state?
If this has been answered previously I apologize. I intend to skim through this thread at some point but it's practically a book
There's nothing wrong with training fasted - definitely doesn't make you a "freak".
If you're using the Lean Gains 16-hour fast/8-hour feeding window and you start your feeding window post-training, then there's no reason why you can't do that. That said, you ideally want to have SOMEthing within the post-training "window" - even if you work, you can always shovel a quick "meal" down, even if it is only as little as fruit or nuts and seeds, MuscleGel orprotein bar, etc.
I don't know about the studies, but I have had no trouble rebuilding muscle training in a fasted stated (and I'm certainly not losing any), and are in fact adding lean mass to my delts and arms again (after having lost it due to time out from training because of injuries). As long as you are eating (and training) appropriately for YOU re making gains (lean or not), you can make them, whether training fasted or not, IMO.
Chris is likely to be able to answer all your questions better than me on this though (and no doubt others will chime in as well), since he's the resident AM guru on Lean Gains
~Rosie~
mkretz
Well-known member
thanks for everyones input on my question...i trained fasted after doign plyos and some cardio on a burn day iwth no carbs, and still felt fine, i really remember y i liek this diet, i didnt feel sluggish all day, sumtimes after my fastbreka i will, but o well, i was alert all morning long and still ahd a good workout, sometimes mentally training legs fasted gets too me though, that will be sat, but i think im gonna keep doing this even though im bulking and have to eat an insane amount of food at one time lol, buta t the same time i like it lol thanks again!
bigbob21
New member
I've been having thoughts regarding the bcaa/eaa pulsing protocol that's been suggested during a fast.
These thoughts continue based on the previous question about eating and/or waiting hours during the post workout period...
After reading about the effects of the Ampk process on blogspot.suppversity.com and the anabolic processes of Mtor, my question is this:
If pre/during/post workout bcaa ingestion raises protein senthesis way above baseline, wouldn't that spike in protein senthesis turn off the Ampk pathways and either break our fasts and/or lower the few positive effects were looking for with the Ampk pathways?
I understand this is an over implicated way of looking at things, and I know it's been said that small amounts of calories wont break the fast.
The info I'm looking for is if it does or doesn't lower the fast's beneficial effects. I'm thinking now that if pulsing bcaa/eaas does reduce the effects of the fast towards anabolism, then shouldn't we be breaking our fast all together after a workout, rather than prolonging it.
Obviously workout scheduling would be a factor.
Gotta apologize, I might be completely off base and rambling...it's Friday and I'm fasting longer than usual for lent
These thoughts continue based on the previous question about eating and/or waiting hours during the post workout period...
After reading about the effects of the Ampk process on blogspot.suppversity.com and the anabolic processes of Mtor, my question is this:
If pre/during/post workout bcaa ingestion raises protein senthesis way above baseline, wouldn't that spike in protein senthesis turn off the Ampk pathways and either break our fasts and/or lower the few positive effects were looking for with the Ampk pathways?
I understand this is an over implicated way of looking at things, and I know it's been said that small amounts of calories wont break the fast.
The info I'm looking for is if it does or doesn't lower the fast's beneficial effects. I'm thinking now that if pulsing bcaa/eaas does reduce the effects of the fast towards anabolism, then shouldn't we be breaking our fast all together after a workout, rather than prolonging it.
Obviously workout scheduling would be a factor.
Gotta apologize, I might be completely off base and rambling...it's Friday and I'm fasting longer than usual for lent
MDiocre
Member
I think its prolly ideal to all out break fast soon after exercise. Fasting sensitizes muscle tissue to insulin. Weightlifting does too, but I believe the returns of this effect diminish the longer you wait after exercise. Its not like your muscles still wont be soaking up the insulin when it finally comes, it just may not have the same anabolic effect as if it the insulin came during the acute muscle injury.
jhferry
Member
Oh, think I have my Paleo questions answered. Can anyone tell me how you could structure this around working out at 8pm? It seems difficult to come up with something that fits the 16 hour fast. Goal at this point is fat loss. Although would go recomp fairly soon.
edit: from leangains - Where do the BCAAs fit into this?
12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
edit: from leangains - Where do the BCAAs fit into this?
12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
Jordinator
Member
I've been having thoughts regarding the bcaa/eaa pulsing protocol that's been suggested during a fast.
These thoughts continue based on the previous question about eating and/or waiting hours during the post workout period...
After reading about the effects of the Ampk process on blogspot.suppversity.com and the anabolic processes of Mtor, my question is this:
If pre/during/post workout bcaa ingestion raises protein senthesis way above baseline, wouldn't that spike in protein senthesis turn off the Ampk pathways and either break our fasts and/or lower the few positive effects were looking for with the Ampk pathways?
I understand this is an over implicated way of looking at things, and I know it's been said that small amounts of calories wont break the fast.
The info I'm looking for is if it does or doesn't lower the fast's beneficial effects. I'm thinking now that if pulsing bcaa/eaas does reduce the effects of the fast towards anabolism, then shouldn't we be breaking our fast all together after a workout, rather than prolonging it.
Obviously workout scheduling would be a factor.
Gotta apologize, I might be completely off base and rambling...it's Friday and I'm fasting longer than usual for lent
That's a great question. BUMP for an answer!
houstontexas
Well-known member
BCAA fits in every 2-3hrs before your first meal that you are awake. So for me I'm drinking BCAA mix 3-4x each morning before breaking fast at noon.
houstontexas
Well-known member
Someone shared this video on another site so I thought I'd throw it in here. We're always talking about eating "dirtier" etc on LG so I thought it was kind of fitting. Whether you agree or not is up to you.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
jhferry
Member
So wake up:
7am 10g BCAA
10am 10g BCAA
1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
6 PM 10g BCAA
7 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8 PM Workout
9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
OR
7am 10g BCAA
9am 10g BCAA
11 PM 10g BCAA
1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
7 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8 PM Workout
9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
My thoughts are that the first option gives me BCAAs close to workout, what do you guys think?
houstontexas
Well-known member
You could have the bcaa's right before or during your workout if you wanted to instead. I don't know that they are necessary, but they won't hurt. I'd move that 2nd meal to 6pm so it has more time to digest, but that's just me b/c I feel like throwing up if I've eaten too close to my workout. Just try not to worry about it b/c it's not going to make a huge difference probably. Do whatever you feel like and switch it up if you don't like it.
Vote4pedro
Member
Stubborn fat
So anybody's done anything else regarding this?
Besides Yohimbine, Fasted lifting followed by some 30-45 LIIT
That's all I really got out of MBs solution, but trying to see if anybody else dealt with these?
My biggest problem is love handles, even while I was a 8% an I would put tight underwear they would come out just a lil ... Now at 12%-15% it's just pissing me off ... U can see my abs, but the mother****ing love handles still chillin
So anybody's done anything else regarding this?
Besides Yohimbine, Fasted lifting followed by some 30-45 LIIT
That's all I really got out of MBs solution, but trying to see if anybody else dealt with these?
My biggest problem is love handles, even while I was a 8% an I would put tight underwear they would come out just a lil ... Now at 12%-15% it's just pissing me off ... U can see my abs, but the mother****ing love handles still chillin
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Vote4pedro
Member
Rosie Chee Scott said:
Ugh lol hate it ... I had the most ripped 6 pack, veins and everything ... Yet I could still see my love handle ... I don't get it ... Damn genes I guess
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
It could be genes, yes, especially since they can account for how our "abs" look re muscle and when we lean out. It could also be that because we are our own worst critics, we see what is "not" there, even if it bothers and is very real to us. At 8% bodyfat though, as a male you CAN get leaner, and see what happens.
~Rosie~
houstontexas
Well-known member
Unless I read it wrong he is at 15% now, but felt like the love handles were still there even when he was much leaner at 8%
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Well, at 15% bodyfat, he's just at the average male body composition, and such an issue could be expected. If it presented at 8% bodyfat, then there is still leaning that can be done - after all, males CAN get down to 3-5% bodyfat.
~Rosie~
jhferry
Member
What about BCAA ratio's? Is there a preferred ratio? Thanks for the reply, how critical is it that I stick to 30gms per days versus something less?
Vote4pedro
Member
Rosie Chee Scott said:
What I said was when I was at 8% last year when I was finalizing my cut I still notice them ... NOW I'm at 13%-15% tho ... Clearly they r there, but even at 8% they were there ...
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
And I reiterate, "If it presented at 8% bodyfat, then there is still leaning that can be done - after all, males CAN get down to 3-5% bodyfat." You just had to get leaner, simple as that.
~Rosie~
Vote4pedro
Member
Rosie Chee Scott said:
I agree, but that's competition bf% ... I couldn't live like that lol the carb depletion would be immense ...
mkretz
Well-known member
i got a question.....sometimes my fast break occurs at work and i eat and work at the same time but its liek take a bite, work, take a bite, work, and someitmes it takes almost 2 hours to finisht eh fast break meal, do u think this woudl have an impct on anything? woudl there my a certain macro i shoudl try to eat first, cu i suualyl have a bowl of oatmeal(carbs) , an omlette (protein) and other carbs and proteins mixed, (maybe like beef and rice and benas or somethin)
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
For a female, it would be, but not for a male. And take it from someone who maintains close to that most of the time, carbohydrates depletion is not an issue - you do NOT have to eliminate or restrict to stay at such leanness; it's about knowing your body and manipulating your nutrition and training accordingly!
Shouldn't be an issue I imagine, since you're eating within the 8-hour feeding window. No relevance on the macronutrients and order eaten in, aside from digestion rates, IMO. If you have trouble making things work, ADAPT it to FIT YOU!
~Rosie~
Vote4pedro
Member
Rosie Chee Scott said:
Lol will keep in mind. Thanks
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
That's an example of my #s a few weeks back ... I like keeping Protein the same, less than 100g of fat on WorkOut days
my rest day I lately I've been doing just to meet the calories and more of a 50/50 carbs and fat and I like it better than higher fats
jhferry
Member
Here is mine based on your numbers:
Invalid Link Removed
You are cutting or recomp?
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
Cutting but not really, my days off I go ape **** cuz I'm so hungry, I measured this morning at 12% BF at 194lbs so I'm happy, yet Some days I wanna cut some days I wanna grow lol but those numbers were intended to cut ... I think I'm gonna go strict strict after I finish this cycle ...
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
BCAAs are only needed when training fasted
jhferry
Member
Got it, so for night time lifters like me should I hit the BCAAs the following morning? I work out at 8pm, last meal at 9pm. So that starts my fast. Just in that habit of taking protein the next morning stopping the catabolism.
Do you guys just use straight up BCAA power or something flavored?
DreamWeaver
Legend
I like USP's modern BCAA's or Recoverpro...if I have to take in a fair amount taste matters and these mix well...
bla55
Well-known member
Are BCAAs useful even if I'm not doing fasted cardio?
I wake up at 7am and have a bottle of BCAA pills in my office, and I take about 5g every couple of hours or so when I'm fasting. Am I just wasting BCAA since I'm not doing any fasted cardio or should I continue taking these? What are the pros / cons?
Also, what's the overall take on coffee? Black, no sugar, no sweetener, no milk, etc?
I wake up at 7am and have a bottle of BCAA pills in my office, and I take about 5g every couple of hours or so when I'm fasting. Am I just wasting BCAA since I'm not doing any fasted cardio or should I continue taking these? What are the pros / cons?
Also, what's the overall take on coffee? Black, no sugar, no sweetener, no milk, etc?
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
What? No!
If u train fasted ... If u train and eat ur biggest meal then u need no BCAAs ... Ur getting ur Aminos from food ...
Vote4pedro
Member
bla55 said:
Now I see why ppl got frustrated at the beginning ... All this questions are answered on the guide
Ur not wasting but ur not getting any out of them either
Coffee is good, sweetener good, and I use about half of one of those lil cups of milk ... Whatever half a serving is from the product u use ... Just make sure all of it doesn't add up to 50 Cals ... Example
1 cup of coffee = 5 calories ...
5 cups =25 calories
1/2 serving of milk packs = 5 calories
1/2 x 5 = 25 calories
25x2 = 50 calories total
Capiche?
EasyEJL
Never enough
well, 5g of leucine spikes protein synthesis, so its always handy.
on coffee, best is to use stevia if you want sweetener, and as far as milk/creamer goes, just try to keep total calories low. If you like a flavored one, get a sugar free one at least.
jhferry
Member
I got you but look at my schedule:
7am 10g BCAA
10am 10g BCAA
1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
7 PM 10g BCAA
8 PM Workout
9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
See why its confusing? Technically I am not training fasted. My training is right in the middle of my feeding period.
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
-___________-
U need no BCAAs bro. Save ur money, Fast Fast and keep fasting for 16 hrs, drink water, drink coffe, drink sugar free drinks keep it below 50 calories ... It's confusing cuz ur over thinking it ... U need no BCAAs for ur protocol
Vote4pedro
Member
bla55 said:
Yeap BCAAs before, after and every 2 hrs until u brake fast
jhferry
Member
I get it now. Since I am not training fasted I do not need to BCAA. Just eat in that time period and I am good to go.
Vote4pedro
Member
jhferry said:
Yessssir ... Sorry if I came out a lil strong, I didn't mean to sound like a dick lol ... Let me show u my schedule supplement wise so u have an idea
0700-Yohimbine 16mg + cup of coffee
0900-Yohimbine 16mg + MIO energy with water
0955-BCAAs + Jack3d
1000-Lift
1100-Yohimbine
1105-Light Cardio
1150-BCAAs + Creatine (BCAAs no needed here but Creatine by it self is disgusting
1pm-60%of calories with Liver Protectant + MultiVitamins (I may or may not include a protein shake depending how full I am otherwise I rather eat my protein ... I use protein shakes as a reward
4pm- small meal
830pm- small meal
9- begin Fast
This is my prefer method for loosing fat and the protocol I'm on ... To bulk I would do some like
0700-cup of coffee
0900-MIO energy with water
1pm 1st meal low carb
4pm 2nd meal med carb
445pm Jack3d
5pm lift (2 hours or so
730pm Creatine + Whey protein (Begin of biggest meal so I sip on em on the way home
830pm-biggest meal with all my fats (steak) and huge carb load (yams or potatoes) with Liver Protectant + MultiVitamins + fish oil + Casein pudding
9- begin Fast
Hope that gives u and the rest some ideas