KLEEN's Recovery and Cut Log = RLS Dermacrine, NTBM Gear and other goodies to start.

Actually Morry, you are correct in the typical situation as he has everything timed the eating window is still around the same time but you will have a smaller pre-workout meal to kick it off and then a huge percentage of your overall caloric intake following the workout if you train in the evenings. The fat is definitely burned during the fast but that is regardless of the training. The only thing training in the morning does to increase the efficacy of fat burning is to have your metabolism ramped up by the training which means it will stay ramped up longer since the body's sleep patterns dictate an automatic slowing of the metabolism at night if typical sleep pattern. Therefore stopping the metabolism a little short with the later workouts when followed by sleep in the next few hours. I only have time to train in the AM. He has a very specific "fasted" training protocol which is what Rick and I are doing. Hence the aminos pre, post and every 2 hours until the feeding window starts. This is just to allow for the protein synthesis to still occur without actually removing your body from a fasted state hormonally. The weight loss is more to do with leptin levels too. I will touch on this later since I just finished my workout, and need to get ready for work.

Cardio 55 min 5 min cool down on tread mill level 7 incline 3mph = 533 cals
 
Here is the Fasting Training protocol from Invalid Link Removed.

Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth?
1:41 AM | Posted by Martin Berkhan



Share A recent study shows fasted training affects the post-workout anabolic response to weight training more favorably than fed-state training.

This study is very interesting to say the least, since it lends scientific support to explain the beneficial effects from both fasted-training and Leangains-style intermittent fasting. Let me give you the lowdown on this study in layman's terms.

Weight training activates enzymes and switches on genes that up regulates protein synthesis in muscles. Out of these signalling mechanisms, the phosphorylation, "activity" plainly speaking, of p70s6 kinase may serve as an indicator of muscle growth, along with other myogenic transcription factors. Myogenic meaning from within the muscle. Nutrition no doubt affects the myogenic signaling mechanisms, but it's still not fully understood to what degree.

In this study, subjects were split into two groups that were trained on two occasions separated by three weeks. The three-week rest period between sessions served as a "washout" period, in order to make sure that the prior session didn't interfere with the results obtained during the second test.

The workouts were fairly basic whole-body sessions: 3 x 8 in seven movements such as bench press, overhead press, curls and leg press.

One of the sessions (F) were performed on an empty stomach after an overnight fast.

The other session (B) was performed in the fed state. Subjects were given a breakfast of 722 kcal composed of 85% carbs, 11% protein and 4% fat, and training was initiated 90 minutes after the meal.

After the weight training session, both groups rested for 4 hours. At the one- and four-hour marks, muscle biopsies and blood tests were obtained . Participants were also also given a recovery drink to sip each hour during the rest period.

Results revealed that the F session had twice as high levels of p70s6k in comparison to the B when measured at the one-hour mark post-workout. Other myogenic transcription factors were also higher at this point, though not quite as pronounced as p70s6k. At the four-hour mark, the differences between the two groups had evened out.

Why may fasted training be beneficial for the post-workout anabolic response?

The researchers concluded that "Our results indicate that prior fasting may stimulate the intramyocellular anabolic response to ingestion of a carbohydrate/protein/leucine mixture following a heavy resistance training session. "

Among other things, increased levels of p70s6k may lead to a faster transport of amino acids into the muscle cell membranes, which should lead to a more rapid and potent anabolic response to post-workout nutrient ingestion. The effects seen on the other myogenic signaling mechanisms could also affect muscle growth through other pathways.

It seems that the increased anabolic activity seen post-workout is a compensatory response to the increased catabolism that occurs during fasted state training. Very interesting. The big question is if there would be a net difference in muscle growth at the end of the day. Training on an empty stomach will cause greater catabolism in the short run, but will it yield greater gains in the long run? Do we make a small sacrifice in order to receive a greater reward?

Well, I think we can leverage the results of this study to our benefit and sidestep the negatives if we ask ourselves why, relative to the fasted group, p70s6k and the other myogenic transcription factors were inhibited after a pre-workout meal. Or rather the highly insulinogenic pre-workout meal served in the study -- a whopping 153 g high glycemic index carbs.

There's no clear answer here, but other studies have suggested that carb intake during an endurance training can blunt the expression of several metabolic genes post-exercise. Insulin may play a role here, for sure.

Another way to think of it is that by providing nutrients to the body, exercise is experienced by the body as less of a stressor compared to fasted-state training. No need to adapt or compensate when all is provided for you. A similar phenomenon can be seen with antioxidant intake, where recent studies show that ingesting antioxidants from supplements weakens the body's own response to deal with free radicals created by training. We are making it easy for the body and that may be a suboptimal way to train.

So do I suggest everyone start training fasted from now on? Of course not. Remember, it is still not known if the net effect of fasted state training will lead to more favorable results in the long run.

However, I do suggest the following:

* Make sure that the great majority of your daily allotment of calories and carbs are ingested in the post-workout period, and not before.

* The immediate pre-workout meal should contain no more than a moderate amount of low glycemic index carbs. The exact amount would depend on many factors, total workout volume being the biggest one to consider, but a good guideline for a moderate volume weight training session is approximately 0.6 - 0.8 g carb per kilogram body weight or 0.3 - 0.4 g per pound of body weight. Have this meal 1.5 - 2.5 hours before your training session.

* For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period.
 
This makes a lot of sense, think about man's early state as a hunter and gatherer, our bodies would have to become accustomed to takiing in large abounts of nutrition after expending tremedous energy in order to survive. Often we would be hunting down large animals in a fasted state and there would be a necessity for the body to take in nutrients during more infrequent feedings at an acceleated rate, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
 
DreamWeaver said:
This makes a lot of sense, think about man's early state as a hunter and gatherer, our bodies would have to become accustomed to takiing in large abounts of nutrition after expending tremedous energy in order to survive. Often we would be hunting down large animals in a fasted state and there would be a necessity for the body to take in nutrients during more infrequent feedings at an acceleated rate, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
Click to expand...

That is a very nice analogy that does make a lot of sense
 
MrKleen73 said:
Here is the Fasting Training protocol from Invalid Link Removed.

Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth?
1:41 AM | Posted by Martin Berkhan



Share A recent study shows fasted training affects the post-workout anabolic response to weight training more favorably than fed-state training.

This study is very interesting to say the least, since it lends scientific support to explain the beneficial effects from both fasted-training and Leangains-style intermittent fasting. Let me give you the lowdown on this study in layman's terms.

Weight training activates enzymes and switches on genes that up regulates protein synthesis in muscles. Out of these signalling mechanisms, the phosphorylation, "activity" plainly speaking, of p70s6 kinase may serve as an indicator of muscle growth, along with other myogenic transcription factors. Myogenic meaning from within the muscle. Nutrition no doubt affects the myogenic signaling mechanisms, but it's still not fully understood to what degree.

In this study, subjects were split into two groups that were trained on two occasions separated by three weeks. The three-week rest period between sessions served as a "washout" period, in order to make sure that the prior session didn't interfere with the results obtained during the second test.

The workouts were fairly basic whole-body sessions: 3 x 8 in seven movements such as bench press, overhead press, curls and leg press.

One of the sessions (F) were performed on an empty stomach after an overnight fast.

The other session (B) was performed in the fed state. Subjects were given a breakfast of 722 kcal composed of 85% carbs, 11% protein and 4% fat, and training was initiated 90 minutes after the meal.

After the weight training session, both groups rested for 4 hours. At the one- and four-hour marks, muscle biopsies and blood tests were obtained . Participants were also also given a recovery drink to sip each hour during the rest period.

Results revealed that the F session had twice as high levels of p70s6k in comparison to the B when measured at the one-hour mark post-workout. Other myogenic transcription factors were also higher at this point, though not quite as pronounced as p70s6k. At the four-hour mark, the differences between the two groups had evened out.

Why may fasted training be beneficial for the post-workout anabolic response?

The researchers concluded that "Our results indicate that prior fasting may stimulate the intramyocellular anabolic response to ingestion of a carbohydrate/protein/leucine mixture following a heavy resistance training session. "

Among other things, increased levels of p70s6k may lead to a faster transport of amino acids into the muscle cell membranes, which should lead to a more rapid and potent anabolic response to post-workout nutrient ingestion. The effects seen on the other myogenic signaling mechanisms could also affect muscle growth through other pathways.

It seems that the increased anabolic activity seen post-workout is a compensatory response to the increased catabolism that occurs during fasted state training. Very interesting. The big question is if there would be a net difference in muscle growth at the end of the day. Training on an empty stomach will cause greater catabolism in the short run, but will it yield greater gains in the long run? Do we make a small sacrifice in order to receive a greater reward?

Well, I think we can leverage the results of this study to our benefit and sidestep the negatives if we ask ourselves why, relative to the fasted group, p70s6k and the other myogenic transcription factors were inhibited after a pre-workout meal. Or rather the highly insulinogenic pre-workout meal served in the study -- a whopping 153 g high glycemic index carbs.

There's no clear answer here, but other studies have suggested that carb intake during an endurance training can blunt the expression of several metabolic genes post-exercise. Insulin may play a role here, for sure.

Another way to think of it is that by providing nutrients to the body, exercise is experienced by the body as less of a stressor compared to fasted-state training. No need to adapt or compensate when all is provided for you. A similar phenomenon can be seen with antioxidant intake, where recent studies show that ingesting antioxidants from supplements weakens the body's own response to deal with free radicals created by training. We are making it easy for the body and that may be a suboptimal way to train.

So do I suggest everyone start training fasted from now on? Of course not. Remember, it is still not known if the net effect of fasted state training will lead to more favorable results in the long run.

However, I do suggest the following:

* Make sure that the great majority of your daily allotment of calories and carbs are ingested in the post-workout period, and not before.

* The immediate pre-workout meal should contain no more than a moderate amount of low glycemic index carbs. The exact amount would depend on many factors, total workout volume being the biggest one to consider, but a good guideline for a moderate volume weight training session is approximately 0.6 - 0.8 g carb per kilogram body weight or 0.3 - 0.4 g per pound of body weight. Have this meal 1.5 - 2.5 hours before your training session.

* For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period.
Click to expand...
:goodpost:
Thanks Kleen, that about sums things up for me.

You know after reading this I see how this actually is relative to the way I eat. He has broken down the insulin response pre workout as a no, no, something I have gotten away from myself. Also, about 60-70% of my cals are taken in post workout. If I hand't eaten in 4 or more hours, I hit 5 g BCAAs then workout (cardio and weights, actually working time, 1.5 hours, 2 hours total for stretching and catching a glimpse of that womans tight A$$:147:)

This is something I will keep in my war chest of combating fat. I'm having a hard time keeping weight on right now and I'm not losing muscle bc my strength is still there.......

I need to have another 4 hour cooking session for about 3 or 4 nights. That'll keep my weight around 208 or so for another week. It was 202 this morning. Still benching around 355 but sh1t, I want to bench more and I need more muscle and weight to do it.

Kleen, rick, you guys effing rock! Thank you for shining light on this and helping me learn. I love when threads give me this much info.


:goodpost:

DreamWeaver said:
This makes a lot of sense, think about man's early state as a hunter and gatherer, our bodies would have to become accustomed to takiing in large abounts of nutrition after expending tremedous energy in order to survive. Often we would be hunting down large animals in a fasted state and there would be a necessity for the body to take in nutrients during more infrequent feedings at an acceleated rate, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
Click to expand...


I agree with Rick DW, that is a hell of a perfect way to put it.

Dreamweaver I mentioned you over in my PCT log (link in my sig), let's just say i did some "sorta" full bodied W.O.D..........it hurt to foam roll this morning bc my abs. YOU THE MAN!!!!
Thank you for the suggestion.
 
morry said:
:goodpost:
Thanks Kleen, that about sums things up for me.

You know after reading this I see how this actually is relative to the way I eat. He has broken down the insulin response pre workout as a no, no, something I have gotten away from myself. Also, about 60-70% of my cals are taken in post workout. If I hand't eaten in 4 or more hours, I hit 5 g BCAAs then workout (cardio and weights, actually working time, 1.5 hours, 2 hours total for stretching and catching a glimpse of that womans tight A$$:147:)

This is something I will keep in my war chest of combating fat. I'm having a hard time keeping weight on right now and I'm not losing muscle bc my strength is still there.......

I need to have another 4 hour cooking session for about 3 or 4 nights. That'll keep my weight around 208 or so for another week. It was 202 this morning. Still benching around 355 but sh1t, I want to bench more and I need more muscle and weight to do it.

Kleen, rick, you guys effing rock! Thank you for shining light on this and helping me learn. I love when threads give me this much info.


:goodpost:




I agree with Rick DW, that is a hell of a perfect way to put it.

Dreamweaver I mentioned you over in my PCT log (link in my sig), let's just say i did some "sorta" full bodied W.O.D..........it hurt to foam roll this morning bc my abs. YOU THE MAN!!!!
Thank you for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

haha welcome to the club man, you must have a pretty good core even to be able to do them first time around.... yah ... ouch!! :firedevil:
 
MrKleen73 said:
Here is the Fasting Training protocol from Invalid Link Removed.

Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth?
1:41 AM | Posted by Martin Berkhan



Share A recent study shows fasted training affects the post-workout anabolic response to weight training more favorably than fed-state training.

This study is very interesting to say the least, since it lends scientific support to explain the beneficial effects from both fasted-training and Leangains-style intermittent fasting. Let me give you the lowdown on this study in layman's terms.

Weight training activates enzymes and switches on genes that up regulates protein synthesis in muscles. Out of these signalling mechanisms, the phosphorylation, "activity" plainly speaking, of p70s6 kinase may serve as an indicator of muscle growth, along with other myogenic transcription factors. Myogenic meaning from within the muscle. Nutrition no doubt affects the myogenic signaling mechanisms, but it's still not fully understood to what degree.

In this study, subjects were split into two groups that were trained on two occasions separated by three weeks. The three-week rest period between sessions served as a "washout" period, in order to make sure that the prior session didn't interfere with the results obtained during the second test.

The workouts were fairly basic whole-body sessions: 3 x 8 in seven movements such as bench press, overhead press, curls and leg press.

One of the sessions (F) were performed on an empty stomach after an overnight fast.

The other session (B) was performed in the fed state. Subjects were given a breakfast of 722 kcal composed of 85% carbs, 11% protein and 4% fat, and training was initiated 90 minutes after the meal.

After the weight training session, both groups rested for 4 hours. At the one- and four-hour marks, muscle biopsies and blood tests were obtained . Participants were also also given a recovery drink to sip each hour during the rest period.

Results revealed that the F session had twice as high levels of p70s6k in comparison to the B when measured at the one-hour mark post-workout. Other myogenic transcription factors were also higher at this point, though not quite as pronounced as p70s6k. At the four-hour mark, the differences between the two groups had evened out.

Why may fasted training be beneficial for the post-workout anabolic response?

The researchers concluded that "Our results indicate that prior fasting may stimulate the intramyocellular anabolic response to ingestion of a carbohydrate/protein/leucine mixture following a heavy resistance training session. "

Among other things, increased levels of p70s6k may lead to a faster transport of amino acids into the muscle cell membranes, which should lead to a more rapid and potent anabolic response to post-workout nutrient ingestion. The effects seen on the other myogenic signaling mechanisms could also affect muscle growth through other pathways.

It seems that the increased anabolic activity seen post-workout is a compensatory response to the increased catabolism that occurs during fasted state training. Very interesting. The big question is if there would be a net difference in muscle growth at the end of the day. Training on an empty stomach will cause greater catabolism in the short run, but will it yield greater gains in the long run? Do we make a small sacrifice in order to receive a greater reward?

Well, I think we can leverage the results of this study to our benefit and sidestep the negatives if we ask ourselves why, relative to the fasted group, p70s6k and the other myogenic transcription factors were inhibited after a pre-workout meal. Or rather the highly insulinogenic pre-workout meal served in the study -- a whopping 153 g high glycemic index carbs.

There's no clear answer here, but other studies have suggested that carb intake during an endurance training can blunt the expression of several metabolic genes post-exercise. Insulin may play a role here, for sure.

Another way to think of it is that by providing nutrients to the body, exercise is experienced by the body as less of a stressor compared to fasted-state training. No need to adapt or compensate when all is provided for you. A similar phenomenon can be seen with antioxidant intake, where recent studies show that ingesting antioxidants from supplements weakens the body's own response to deal with free radicals created by training. We are making it easy for the body and that may be a suboptimal way to train.

So do I suggest everyone start training fasted from now on? Of course not. Remember, it is still not known if the net effect of fasted state training will lead to more favorable results in the long run.

However, I do suggest the following:

* Make sure that the great majority of your daily allotment of calories and carbs are ingested in the post-workout period, and not before.

* The immediate pre-workout meal should contain no more than a moderate amount of low glycemic index carbs. The exact amount would depend on many factors, total workout volume being the biggest one to consider, but a good guideline for a moderate volume weight training session is approximately 0.6 - 0.8 g carb per kilogram body weight or 0.3 - 0.4 g per pound of body weight. Have this meal 1.5 - 2.5 hours before your training session.

* For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period.
Click to expand...


Awesome post Kleen!

I have a question, is there any structure to the feeding part, like recommended macro ratios or order foods are eaten? Or is it just a free for all?
 
MrKleen73 said:
Here is the Fasting Training protocol from Invalid Link Removed.

Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth?
1:41 AM | Posted by Martin Berkhan



Share A recent study shows fasted training affects the post-workout anabolic response to weight training more favorably than fed-state training.

This study is very interesting to say the least, since it lends scientific support to explain the beneficial effects from both fasted-training and Leangains-style intermittent fasting. Let me give you the lowdown on this study in layman's terms.

Weight training activates enzymes and switches on genes that up regulates protein synthesis in muscles. Out of these signalling mechanisms, the phosphorylation, "activity" plainly speaking, of p70s6 kinase may serve as an indicator of muscle growth, along with other myogenic transcription factors. Myogenic meaning from within the muscle. Nutrition no doubt affects the myogenic signaling mechanisms, but it's still not fully understood to what degree.

In this study, subjects were split into two groups that were trained on two occasions separated by three weeks. The three-week rest period between sessions served as a "washout" period, in order to make sure that the prior session didn't interfere with the results obtained during the second test.

The workouts were fairly basic whole-body sessions: 3 x 8 in seven movements such as bench press, overhead press, curls and leg press.

One of the sessions (F) were performed on an empty stomach after an overnight fast.

The other session (B) was performed in the fed state. Subjects were given a breakfast of 722 kcal composed of 85% carbs, 11% protein and 4% fat, and training was initiated 90 minutes after the meal.

After the weight training session, both groups rested for 4 hours. At the one- and four-hour marks, muscle biopsies and blood tests were obtained . Participants were also also given a recovery drink to sip each hour during the rest period.

Results revealed that the F session had twice as high levels of p70s6k in comparison to the B when measured at the one-hour mark post-workout. Other myogenic transcription factors were also higher at this point, though not quite as pronounced as p70s6k. At the four-hour mark, the differences between the two groups had evened out.

Why may fasted training be beneficial for the post-workout anabolic response?

The researchers concluded that "Our results indicate that prior fasting may stimulate the intramyocellular anabolic response to ingestion of a carbohydrate/protein/leucine mixture following a heavy resistance training session. "

Among other things, increased levels of p70s6k may lead to a faster transport of amino acids into the muscle cell membranes, which should lead to a more rapid and potent anabolic response to post-workout nutrient ingestion. The effects seen on the other myogenic signaling mechanisms could also affect muscle growth through other pathways.

It seems that the increased anabolic activity seen post-workout is a compensatory response to the increased catabolism that occurs during fasted state training. Very interesting. The big question is if there would be a net difference in muscle growth at the end of the day. Training on an empty stomach will cause greater catabolism in the short run, but will it yield greater gains in the long run? Do we make a small sacrifice in order to receive a greater reward?

Well, I think we can leverage the results of this study to our benefit and sidestep the negatives if we ask ourselves why, relative to the fasted group, p70s6k and the other myogenic transcription factors were inhibited after a pre-workout meal. Or rather the highly insulinogenic pre-workout meal served in the study -- a whopping 153 g high glycemic index carbs.

There's no clear answer here, but other studies have suggested that carb intake during an endurance training can blunt the expression of several metabolic genes post-exercise. Insulin may play a role here, for sure.

Another way to think of it is that by providing nutrients to the body, exercise is experienced by the body as less of a stressor compared to fasted-state training. No need to adapt or compensate when all is provided for you. A similar phenomenon can be seen with antioxidant intake, where recent studies show that ingesting antioxidants from supplements weakens the body's own response to deal with free radicals created by training. We are making it easy for the body and that may be a suboptimal way to train.

So do I suggest everyone start training fasted from now on? Of course not. Remember, it is still not known if the net effect of fasted state training will lead to more favorable results in the long run.

However, I do suggest the following:

* Make sure that the great majority of your daily allotment of calories and carbs are ingested in the post-workout period, and not before.

* The immediate pre-workout meal should contain no more than a moderate amount of low glycemic index carbs. The exact amount would depend on many factors, total workout volume being the biggest one to consider, but a good guideline for a moderate volume weight training session is approximately 0.6 - 0.8 g carb per kilogram body weight or 0.3 - 0.4 g per pound of body weight. Have this meal 1.5 - 2.5 hours before your training session.

* For fasted sessions, ingest 10 g branched chain amino acids (BCAA) shortly prior (5-15 mins) to your training session. This does not count towards the 8-hour feeding window that I advocate post-workout; that starts with your post-workout meal. By ingesting BCAA pre-workout, we can sidestep the increased protein breakdown of fasted training while still reaping the benefits of the increased anabolic response as seen in this study. Not only that, BCAAs actually increase phosphorylation of p70s6k when ingested in the fasted state prior to training. So by training fasted, with BCAA intake prior to sessions, we get a double whammy of increased p70s6k phosphorylation that should create a very favorable environment for muscle growth in the post-workout period.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the post Kleen.
 
JudoJosh said:
Awesome post Kleen!

I have a question, is there any structure to the feeding part, like recommended macro ratios or order foods are eaten? Or is it just a free for all?
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert bc I'm just learning about this, but from my knowledge there is no diet you can ignore macros and just have a free for all.

Guys that have ripped abs don't eat a bunch of crap regardless of thier diet. And yes, I have "ripped" abs and I DON'T eat garbage, but I do let chics lick honey off my abs and I count this as my "cheat" meal.....think about it :147:
 
morry said:
I'm not an expert bc I'm just learning about this, but from my knowledge there is no diet you can ignore macros and just have a free for all.

Guys that have ripped abs don't eat a bunch of crap regardless of thier diet. And yes, I have "ripped" abs and I DON'T eat garbage, but I do let chics lick honey off my abs and I count this as my "cheat" meal.....think about it :147:
Click to expand...


Lmao...

Yeh like Morry said macros are always important, but this diet has allowed me a little bit of freedom that I otherwise wouldn't have in a traditional cut, but I am still eating clean.
 
DreamWeaver said:
This makes a lot of sense, think about man's early state as a hunter and gatherer, our bodies would have to become accustomed to takiing in large abounts of nutrition after expending tremedous energy in order to survive. Often we would be hunting down large animals in a fasted state and there would be a necessity for the body to take in nutrients during more infrequent feedings at an acceleated rate, otherwise we wouldn't be here.
Click to expand...
Nicely said.
RickRock13 said:
That is a very nice analogy that does make a lot of sense
Click to expand...
Agreed!
morry said:
:goodpost:
Thanks Kleen, that about sums things up for me.

You know after reading this I see how this actually is relative to the way I eat. He has broken down the insulin response pre workout as a no, no, something I have gotten away from myself. Also, about 60-70% of my cals are taken in post workout. If I hand't eaten in 4 or more hours, I hit 5 g BCAAs then workout (cardio and weights, actually working time, 1.5 hours, 2 hours total for stretching and catching a glimpse of that womans tight A$$:147:)

This is something I will keep in my war chest of combating fat. I'm having a hard time keeping weight on right now and I'm not losing muscle bc my strength is still there.......

I need to have another 4 hour cooking session for about 3 or 4 nights. That'll keep my weight around 208 or so for another week. It was 202 this morning. Still benching around 355 but sh1t, I want to bench more and I need more muscle and weight to do it.

Kleen, rick, you guys effing rock! Thank you for shining light on this and helping me learn. I love when threads give me this much info.


:goodpost:




I agree with Rick DW, that is a hell of a perfect way to put it.

Dreamweaver I mentioned you over in my PCT log (link in my sig), let's just say i did some "sorta" full bodied W.O.D..........it hurt to foam roll this morning bc my abs. YOU THE MAN!!!!
Thank you for the suggestion.
Click to expand...
Yeah those things rock!
DreamWeaver said:
haha welcome to the club man, you must have a pretty good core even to be able to do them first time around.... yah ... ouch!! :firedevil:
Click to expand...

JudoJosh said:
Awesome post Kleen!

I have a question, is there any structure to the feeding part, like recommended macro ratios or order foods are eaten? Or is it just a free for all?
Click to expand...
As far as when you eat within the window the most is during the fast breaker. Otherwise if trying to gain lbm once already lean there are some very interesting tactics he employs.
VolcomX311 said:
Thanks for the post Kleen.
Click to expand...
No problem has changed my life so far.
morry said:
I'm not an expert bc I'm just learning about this, but from my knowledge there is no diet you can ignore macros and just have a free for all.

Guys that have ripped abs don't eat a bunch of crap regardless of thier diet. And yes, I have "ripped" abs and I DON'T eat garbage, but I do let chics lick honey off my abs and I count this as my "cheat" meal.....think about it :147:
Click to expand...
Definitely not a free for all but honestly I eat a good meal of whatever I want on almost every weight lifting day. Morry you should really go check the site out he has a steak mastery day and a cheese cake mastery day where you gorge on these foods to assist in gaining. Not all the time, but there are a lot of interesting things used in here that people would never expect to see. He maintains astonishing level of leanness throughout the year doing it to. Kind of how every once in a while we throw a really intense workout at our body to shock it. I haven't delved into the gaining part of it yet so I can't really expound on it too much as of yet but once I have hit 6-8% I will focus on lean mass gains while maintaining 8% and below. The fat is coming off so fast right now that I need to go ahead and start studying it because I will be there before I know it.

RickRock13 said:
Lmao...

Yeh like Morry said macros are always important, but this diet has allowed me a little bit of freedom that I otherwise wouldn't have in a traditional cut, but I am still eating clean.
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This but then again, I do have an occasional double meat cheese burger and fries. Slice of Pizza, things like that eating something ike that easily 2 times a week sometimes three. I am not competing and with the level of success that I am having tossing those in on occasion I will continue to do so but the rest of the time will be non-grain carbs lean beef, other meats, and what not. I am not a purist of any kind. I prefer to leave my options open to enjoy life as much as possible and so far I am having my cake and EATING IT TOO!!! This allows me great success, convenience and results so unless competing I don't see a need to go all one way or another for now.

So really will the diet work in a free for all assuming protein requirements were met, I bet it would but aesthetically, but not healthily. Does it make life more enjoyable if not obsessed with macros ABSOLUTELY so keep them in check play with it and see what is the best mix for you personally based on your goals. However it is definitely the most liberating form of diet I have found and that is very important to me. Convenience, enjoyment and results, that to me is exactly what I am looking for. I hate obsessing over food and this allows me not too and still get far better than average results.
 
I'm not going to clutter things by quoting your post...but well said man!! This whole thing is like having your cake and eating it too. I am so amazed by it, that I've started another log as my PCT is ending tomorrow...

Stop in if you get a chance man..I'd love to have you and your input!!

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Speaking of cake, I had Layne Norton cheesecake today, and it's frickin' AWESOME. 20g protein, 6g carbs, 2.5g fat for each slice! I am going to ALWAYS have this in the house now!
 
Milas said:
Speaking of cake, I had Layne Norton cheesecake today, and it's frickin' AWESOME. 20g protein, 6g carbs, 2.5g fat for each slice! I am going to ALWAYS have this in the house now!
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How much for the whole cake....:veryhappy:
 
Is this it?

Ingredients:
2 lbs no fat cream cheese
4 whole large eggs
1 tsp vanilla extract
1 tablespoon cinnamon
4 oz (1/2 cup) low carb no fat milk
1 cup cooking splenda (sucralose)
Directions:
Preheat oven to 350 degrees
Using No Fat cooking spray, spray 9" pie pan
Mix ingredients together using an electric blender in a large bowl
Pour mix into pre-greased pan

Heat at 350 degrees for 40-50 minutes
Remove from oven and place in refrigerator

You must let this sit at least 4-5 hours in the fridge if you want a decent cheesecake.

Macronutrient Totals (per slice):
Protein: 20g
Carbohydrates: 6g
Fat: 2.25g
Chocolate or vanilla protein powder can be added to the mix for flavor and more protein if desired.

If one desires a softer cheesecake, then use 1 lb of light ricotta cheese and 1 lb of fat free cream cheese instead of 2 lbs fat free cream cheese. This changes the totals per slice.

Macronutrient Totals (per slice):
Protein: 17g
Carbohydrates: 5g
Fat: 4.5g
* This cheesecake is extremely good when topped with Walden Farms' calorie free chocolate syrup and a thin coat of peanut butter or fat free whip cream.
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That's the one! Deeeeeeelish!!!
 
Sure does look good. I did a lighter Push workout today, heavier than this past week but I did not push it. Taking care of both the eye and the shoulder. Have a twinge in the shoulder that I am almost positive is just from overdoing it on the external rotations and the rotator cuff muscle being sore but it is better to be cautious. I will stay at 15 reps instead of moving to 12 until I know that this is just a bit of overdoing it, and just keep progressing in weight with the 15 reps for another week maybe two. If it feels better more quickly I may move on but for now caution is the key. If it still twinges by Wednesday I will forgo upper body and concentrate only on legs for a week or two. I know I didn't tear anything but I may have aggravated the softer cartilage that hasn't toughened up yet if that is the case I just need to rest it and let the inflammation go down. No big deal. I am smarter about this stuff now. Good thing is I know for a fact the lifting didn't do it, unless the pull overs rubbed it the wrong way, but that was the same day I used the cable crossover station for all of my rotator work and that took me from 10 lb DB's to 20 lb cable work. That is a HUGE jump for such tiny rubber band muscles like the rotator cuff muscles. So I am relatively confident I just over worked them.

Abs seem to be improving by the day, When I throw up a double biceps shot or simply raise my arms up my abs are now evident. I can't wait for tomorrow where I get a full blown rest day. It has been hard earned for sure.
 
RickRock13 said:
Damn I'm gonna have to try that....:yumyum:
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morry said:
me too!!! Hella recipe.
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It is incredible. I've had 3 slices today (birthday treat), and I don't feel bad since I got 60g protein and only 18g carbs. I think I'm going to make it weekly, adding in different protein powders or other low cal goodies. I also have different Walden Farms sauces to try on it too!
 
Milas said:
It is incredible. I've had 3 slices today (birthday treat), and I don't feel bad since I got 60g protein and only 18g carbs. I think I'm going to make it weekly, adding in different protein powders or other low cal goodies. I also have different Walden Farms sauces to try on it too!
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I wonder how it would be if you used the Better Protein Bar bag?
 
8 Hour Carb Up

Today I am doing a carb up during the 8 hour feeding window. I expect to put on some lbs today but should clean up by the end of the fasting period tomorrow. Already looking full at about 250 grams in. I found the spot in my shoulder and it is a muscle insertion / tendon that happens to be over my shoulder, not the cartilage on the bone however I still feel that it is also slightly inflamed or could be. So I going to work Legs harder and only stuff that I am not moving the shoulder much for upper body. Maybe some static holds, and or flexing instead of ranges of motion on chest, shoulders, and back. Then curls and triceps extensions for arms. Then I wont return to db pull overs for a while instead maybe with an EZ curl bar or a straight arm lat pull down so I can get my more neutral to my shoulder.

Looking like a stud otherwise, I am up afew lb's already and have about 2500 calories to go since carbing up. Speaking of time for some carbs.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Today I am doing a carb up during the 8 hour feeding window. I expect to put on some lbs today but should clean up by the end of the fasting period tomorrow. Already looking full at about 250 grams in. I found the spot in my shoulder and it is a muscle insertion / tendon that happens to be over my shoulder, not the cartilage on the bone however I still feel that it is also slightly inflamed or could be. So I going to work Legs harder and only stuff that I am not moving the shoulder much for upper body. Maybe some static holds, and or flexing instead of ranges of motion on chest, shoulders, and back. Then curls and triceps extensions for arms. Then I wont return to db pull overs for a while instead maybe with an EZ curl bar or a straight arm lat pull down so I can get my more neutral to my shoulder.

Looking like a stud otherwise, I am up afew lb's already and have about 2500 calories to go since carbing up. Speaking of time for some carbs.
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Nice man. I kinda did a carb up last night. It was my first meal that I've indulged myself since starting, and it was much needed and it made everything taste so much better. I love me some mexican food, and steak fajitas, and a beef burrito with chips and salsa were calling my name:yup:
 
RickRock13 said:
Nice man. I kinda did a carb up last night. It was my first meal that I've indulged myself since starting, and it was much needed and it made everything taste so much better. I love me some mexican food, and steak fajitas, and a beef burrito with chips and salsa were calling my name:yup:
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Mmm. Sounds good. I splurged a bit too on some TB last night..
Nachos Bell Grande & Cheesy Double Decker :food: :439:
 
I have about 150 grams of carbs to ingenst and only 2 hours and 20 minutes to go. I am getting ready to drive my son to alvin that take an hour to get back so I am gonna have to work to get that 150 in... Maybe some sherbet or sorbet to get some of it down. have taken in about 9 grams of Creatine Malate so far today and what ever creatine is in 3.5 scoops of Postal. SO I should be nice and creatine loaded too. I may soak in a hot bath tonight and see what I look like in the morning. ;) I would not be surprised if I am close to 200 lbs tomorrow morning when I weigh myself I was 193 this morning. I am out of N2KTS so I have switched over to Jack3d until I exhaust my supplies of that or run a log for something. Can't see buying more stuff if I already have a good amount of Jack3d here.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I am out of N2KTS so I have switched over to Jack3d until I exhaust my supplies of that or run a log for something. Can't see buying more stuff if I already have a good amount of Jack3d here.
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We have a promo going on right now for Wyked..

Go check it out

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What exactly is the point of a Carb up in the type of diet we are on? Just wondering if this is something I should plan to do every now and then. I was under the assumption that Carb refeeds were for Keto and very low Carb diets, so just wondering...
 
RickRock13 said:
What exactly is the point of a Carb up in the type of diet we are on? Just wondering if this is something I should plan to do every now and then. I was under the assumption that Carb refeeds were for Keto and very low Carb diets, so just wondering...
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Kleen, Rick, I did ake your advice and spend some time reading at the LeanGains website.
This guy seems like he has a really good grasp on nutrition and fitness.

Goofing around, I tried his pose and I'll attach it to this post. Remember I'm about 1.5%-2% higher in BF than him. By choice at the time, but I'm still trying to settle some things in my head regarding genetics, hormone levels, and propensity to hold onto LBM. I'll check back when I got it figured out for me :)

As far as carb ups go, I'm just going to toss my .02 at it. Rick, I know you you probably know a lot of what I'm about to say, but this thread is so informative I'm going put my thoughts in there.

When I am referring to carbs below, I mean grains, complex carbs. Not fruits and veggies.

Carb ups can be done for a couple reasons IMO. Most of the time a "refeed" in my experience has been a term used to slightly cheat on your diet. This is all wrong. Carb ups should be CLEAN and timed correctly are supposed to help you combat the carb cravings. They also are supposed to keep your body guessing and not getting into a lull during your fat burning. Usually these are done every week to 9 days or something like that. I think some users just go by "feel" too. They carb up with something somewhat "unclean" to keep themselves from killing 5 big macs or 2 bag of doritos. This is still a bad practice IMO, but if it keeps you from cheating real bad, it is worth it.

I'm not sure how much credence exist in the claim that you have to keep your body guessing (relative to this specific subject matter that is). My personal experience has always been that my body will continue to burn fat if I continue my activity level, dedication, and overall health goals. I have not experienced these lulls, but that doesn't mean I won't have a shift in my metabolism in the future. So perhaps, I'lll recant this statement down the raod, but for now, I stand by it. Refeed IMO is phychological thing.
I know, I know. If you are going to say anything about insulin levels relative to complex carbs......don't. There is a whole list of food that aren't carbs that have the ability to produce a purely natural biphasic insulin response. Look it up :)

I'm guessing here bc I haven't spoke to Kleen about this, but if it were me and I carbed up like that, it would indicate I was about to punish the crap out of myself in the gym. Not in a bad way, a good way. Hit those weights hard and force growth. This level of activity, however, can end up being pretty catabolic if feeding isn't done correctly. Carbing up before had, IMO will "protect" more of that muscle during these time. This does not mean hitting 100g dextrose before working out. When Im saying carb up "before" the workout, I'm talking about a day before or more.

Kleen was 193 and hoping to get to 200 after his carb up. I bet 190-195 would be an ideal weight for him, but his LBM isn't there yet. So to cut down to 193, then carb up and create huge anabolic events throughout the week during his 8 hour feeeding window will burn some of those carbs back off and put some LBM back on. The gap should come closer (7lbs now, maybe 6.5 in a week or less and so on). Also, carbs will help you hold onto some water and when combined with a slight sodium load, you may be giving your body a great window to build muscle. More volume= holds more nutrients. Used correctly this could really help push the scales up for an increase in LBM. "Lean Gains".


Kleen, how off base am I bro?

Pic below..... I like the Lean Gains approach and will be watching closely my fellow meathead brotherin
 
RickRock13 said:
What exactly is the point of a Carb up in the type of diet we are on? Just wondering if this is something I should plan to do every now and then. I was under the assumption that Carb refeeds were for Keto and very low Carb diets, so just wondering...
Click to expand...

Alternating between high carb to low carb and high fat to low fat helps force the body to increase glycolytic and mitochondrial enzyme production which enhances the use of carbs and fats for energy. Also depleting your body of carbs followed by carb refeeds will help increase glycogen reserves in muscles.

By doing cycles of carb loading days followed by fat loading days will force the body to improve fat and carb utilization by increasing both glycogen reserves and mitochondrial capacity.

Im sure kleen has more or other reasons to his refeeds but this is just something I think people would benefit from by doing carb refeeds
 
JudoJosh said:
Alternating between high carb to low carb and high fat to low fat helps force the body to increase glycolytic and mitochondrial enzyme production which enhances the use of carbs and fats for energy. Also depleting your body of carbs followed by carb refeeds will help increase glycogen reserves in muscles.

By doing cycles of carb loading days followed by fat loading days will force the body to improve fat and carb utilization by increasing both glycogen reserves and mitochondrial capacity.

Im sure kleen has more or other reasons to his refeeds but this is just something I think people would benefit from by doing carb refeeds
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Carb ups blow you up real good the more I do them the more hyper-sensitive I have been getting to them. Bigger, fuller harder and I always burn a lot of fat when I go back to low carb...
 
I love that you all put a lot of thought into why I did this and it brought out some great reasons for carb loads as well as some of the benefits. However my reasons were 2 fold. One I am slightly injured and thought that If I were to create a nice anabolic event knowing my body is trying to repair itself it will have more than enough substrate to do so.

Secondly it was an experiment, I wanted to get an idea of the glycogen gap, IE how much of the carbs I am getting in and using are being stored as glycogen. I thought I was going to reach 200 lbs hitting it hard with 700 grams of carbs yesterday however I only ended up 196.5 this morning. So this tells me that even though I am taking in 200-250 grams of carbs every training day, and 100-150 the others I am still quite full regarding glycogen stores. I was only able to add on half of what I normally would with a carb load of this size. However I did not hold as much water either and I was drinking fluids through out the day. I did have a few "cheat foods" as Morry mentioned, but in general the carb up was a mix of whole grains, fruits, and honey. I did have fats throughout the day as well. After reading some of the other material I have read lately the addition of fat has nothing to do with how much insulin is released nor how fast glycogen is stored so I wasn't trying to stay all low fat. I had 2 better protein bars yesterday to help me get my cals in. Whole wheat Pancakes with real Maple syrup all the goodies. I am thinking of buying myself a dehydration machine and dehydrating some of my own fruits so if I want to do a carb up later I can do it easily on fruits with no added processed sugars.

However honestly after seeing only a 3.5 lb gain with the effort I put in I don't foresee me pushing that as a needed thing. My glycogen stores are not low by any means even though over all my average carb intake is around 180 a day, I would say I am probably easily as full as some people running 300 grams of carbs a day religiously.

Cardio today 465 cals in 45 minutes. DB Core work except for erectors since tomorrow will be a dead lifting day. :)

Looking Good Morry!!!!
 
MrKleen73 said:
I love that you all put a lot of thought into why I did this and it brought out some great reasons for carb loads as well as some of the benefits. However my reasons were 2 fold. One I am slightly injured and thought that If I were to create a nice anabolic event knowing my body is trying to repair itself it will have more than enough substrate to do so.

Secondly it was an experiment, I wanted to get an idea of the glycogen gap, IE how much of the carbs I am getting in and using are being stored as glycogen. I thought I was going to reach 200 lbs hitting it hard with 700 grams of carbs yesterday however I only ended up 196.5 this morning. So this tells me that even though I am taking in 200-250 grams of carbs every training day, and 100-150 the others I am still quite full regarding glycogen stores. I was only able to add on half of what I normally would with a carb load of this size. However I did not hold as much water either and I was drinking fluids through out the day. I did have a few "cheat foods" as Morry mentioned, but in general the carb up was a mix of whole grains, fruits, and honey. I did have fats throughout the day as well. After reading some of the other material I have read lately the addition of fat has nothing to do with how much insulin is released nor how fast glycogen is stored so I wasn't trying to stay all low fat. I had 2 better protein bars yesterday to help me get my cals in. Whole wheat Pancakes with real Maple syrup all the goodies. I am thinking of buying myself a dehydration machine and dehydrating some of my own fruits so if I want to do a carb up later I can do it easily on fruits with no added processed sugars.

However honestly after seeing only a 3.5 lb gain with the effort I put in I don't foresee me pushing that as a needed thing. My glycogen stores are not low by any means even though over all my average carb intake is around 180 a day, I would say I am probably easily as full as some people running 300 grams of carbs a day religiously.

Cardio today 465 cals in 45 minutes. DB Core work except for erectors since tomorrow will be a dead lifting day. :)

Looking Good Morry!!!!
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Yah not being decarbed you're not going to show a huge difference in weight like I am. My carbs are about 60-70 ed so the effect is very profound.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Yah not being decarbed you're not going to show a huge difference in weight like I am. My carbs are about 60-70 ed so the effect is very profound.
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Yeah but I will say that I am VERY FULL today at 196.5 lbs. Lean too by tomorrow I should look even better and around 194.5, we shall see. I will do an all fruit and honey one soon, well in a few weeks time.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah but I will say that I am VERY FULL today at 196.5 lbs. Lean too by tomorrow I should look even better and around 194.5, we shall see. I will do an all fruit and honey one soon, well in a few weeks time.
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That is A LOT of work for that little bit of gain so I completely feel you on not wanting to do that regularly.

I love that full feeling! It takes about 2 or 3 days to completely go away.

Good points and thanks for steering us guessers into the right direction :)

DW, you got to be on a no grain if you are at 60-70, huh?
 
morry said:
That is A LOT of work for that little bit of gain so I completely feel you on not wanting to do that regularly.

I love that full feeling! It takes about 2 or 3 days to completely go away.

Good points and thanks for steering us guessers into the right direction :)

DW, you got to be on a no grain if you are at 60-70, huh?
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We should put our heads together and come up with a ridiculously yummy all fruit and honey type of dessert recipe for a day I want to do a no grain carb up.

Off the top of my head, apples, cinnamon, honey, dehydrated cranberries, raisins, some protein powder some other goodies. I don't know find a way to give it a good consistency. Perhaps whip in some greek yogurt and freeze....

Oh man I just realized, I can do pineapples and peaches too! Holy Crap I love fruit!!!! I even love prunes, go figure. It is on!!!!!!!

Right now still finishing off most of my grains, once gone I will have them for my enjoyment only and on occasion not frequently. Once maybe twice a week. I am all about life enjoyments so I won't ever stick to only perfect food choices. However if I hit at the least 85% good choices I will still hit the majority of the health benefits of those following the Primal Diet.
 
MrKleen73 said:
We should put our heads together and come up with a ridiculously yummy all fruit and honey type of dessert recipe for a day I want to do a no grain carb up.

Off the top of my head, apples, cinnamon, honey, dehydrated cranberries, raisins, some protein powder some other goodies. I don't know find a way to give it a good consistency. Perhaps whip in some greek yogurt and freeze....

Oh man I just realized, I can do pineapples and peaches too! Holy Crap I love fruit!!!! I even love prunes, go figure. It is on!!!!!!!

Right now still finishing off most of my grains, once gone I will have them for my enjoyment only and on occasion not frequently. Once maybe twice a week. I am all about life enjoyments so I won't ever stick to only perfect food choices. However if I hit at the least 85% good choices I will still hit the majority of the health benefits of those following the Primal Diet.
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I have a couple paleo treats that I like to eat..
Banana Pancakes

2.5 Bananas
2 tbsp almond meal
1 scoop vanillia egg protein mix
2 whole eggs

Just mix and cook like pancakes.

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Banana Dessert

3 bananas
1 can coconut milk
3 eggs
Cinnamon

Directions:
1. Combine all ingredients except for cinnamon in a mixer and mix well.
2. Pour into custard or souffle cups (coffee cups or other oven safe containers work fine if you don’t have custard cups).
3. Sprinkle top with cinnamon.
4. Bake in oven at 350 degrees for approx 45 minutes. Custard will balloon a bit and you may see some liquid… its ok, it will work itself out.
5. Chill.
6. Serve and enjoy.

It was freaking delicious, especially considering it is sugar free, dairy free, and gluten free. OMG!! But be carefull it is very easy to over eat with this. It makes for a nice dinner dessert or a dessert you can serve if you have friends over and still be able to maintain your diet.


Raw Pineapple Cheesecake

Crust
1.5 cups of raw unsalted almonds
6 dates, pitted
¼ teaspoon vanilla extract
Pinch of sea salt

Filling
1 cup raw unsalted cashews
2 cups fresh pineapple
½ cup coconut oil
½ cup of raw honey
1 lemon, freshly squeezed
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
Pinch of sea salt

Combine the crust ingredients in a food processor and blend with an S-blade until the crust clumps together on the sides. Pour crust ingredients into a 9” pie plate and flatten out from the center to the sides. Put aside. Combine all the filling ingredients in a blender and blend until pourable. Pour filling into pie plate over crust and let sit in the fridge for 1.5 hours – 2 hours or until filling hardens. Serve cold.

Pumpkin Pie

2 eggs
1 can (16 ounces) pumpkin
½ tsp salt
1 tsp ground cinnamon
½ tsp ground ginger
½ tsp ground nutmeg
½ tsp ground allspice
1/8 tsp ground cloves
1 2/3 cups coconut milk or almond milk
¼ cup almond meal

Preheat oven to 425 degrees F. Grease pie plate and set aside. In large bowl, beat eggs slightly; mix in remaining ingredients. Bake 15 minutes.

Reduce oven temperature to 350 degrees F. Bake until knife or toothpick comes out clean, about 45 minutes longer. (Pies made with fresh pumpkin may take slightly longer to bake due to higher moisture content.)

I topped it with some slivered almonds and drizzled some maple syrup on top. You can also add some whey to the mix of egg protein to add protein to it
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Only pic I had is of the pancakes, I think I have a pic of the pumpkin custard dished too but never uploaded it Let me know if you try any buddy
 
MrKleen73 said:
We should put our heads together and come up with a ridiculously yummy all fruit and honey type of dessert recipe for a day I want to do a no grain carb up.

Off the top of my head, apples, cinnamon, honey, dehydrated cranberries, raisins, some protein powder some other goodies. I don't know find a way to give it a good consistency. Perhaps whip in some greek yogurt and freeze....

Oh man I just realized, I can do pineapples and peaches too! Holy Crap I love fruit!!!! I even love prunes, go figure. It is on!!!!!!!

Right now still finishing off most of my grains, once gone I will have them for my enjoyment only and on occasion not frequently. Once maybe twice a week. I am all about life enjoyments so I won't ever stick to only perfect food choices. However if I hit at the least 85% good choices I will still hit the majority of the health benefits of those following the Primal Diet.
Click to expand...

I am with you on the 80/20 rule, anything above that is just extra. I try to stick to the diet but life makes that not possible a few times a week, I just deal with it and move on. I had a hotdog at the ballpark yesterday, I didn't blink an eye, just get back on it today. All fruit carb up sounds good, though all that natural fiber should be interesting to say the least (maybe not in a good way either!). Pineapple is key if you want a lot of sugar, along with peaches and mangos, all of which taste great together. Greek yogurt with protein and that all blended then cooled in the freezer sounds pretty darn good to me.
 
morry said:
That is A LOT of work for that little bit of gain so I completely feel you on not wanting to do that regularly.

I love that full feeling! It takes about 2 or 3 days to completely go away.

Good points and thanks for steering us guessers into the right direction :)

DW, you got to be on a no grain if you are at 60-70, huh?
Click to expand...

Just Grapefruits far carbs...
 
oufinny said:
I am with you on the 80/20 rule, anything above that is just extra. I try to stick to the diet but life makes that not possible a few times a week, I just deal with it and move on. I had a hotdog at the ballpark yesterday, I didn't blink an eye, just get back on it today. All fruit carb up sounds good, though all that natural fiber should be interesting to say the least (maybe not in a good way either!). Pineapple is key if you want a lot of sugar, along with peaches and mangos, all of which taste great together. Greek yogurt with protein and that all blended then cooled in the freezer sounds pretty darn good to me.
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Yeah it does. Well I will say that a decent portion will come from honey to prevent that a little. I can always take some cissus to counteract any flooding of the intestines, that stuff dries my digestive track up hardcore. Interestingly there should probably be an increase in collagen from this type of eating, IE lots of fruit. Fruit pectin is mostly collagen if I remember correctly.
DreamWeaver said:
Just Grapefruits far carbs...
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Ahhhh the rigors of battle, yet the end is near and the reward is greatness!
 
That is A LOT of work for that little bit of gain so I completely feel you on not wanting to do that regularly.



I love that full feeling! It takes about 2 or 3 days to completely go away.



Good points and thanks for steering us guessers into the right direction :)



DW, you got to be on a no grain if you are at 60-70, huh?
Click to expand...



We should put our heads together and come up with a ridiculously yummy all fruit and honey type of dessert recipe for a day I want to do a no grain carb up.



Off the top of my head, apples, cinnamon, honey, dehydrated cranberries, raisins, some protein powder some other goodies. I don't know find a way to give it a good consistency. Perhaps whip in some greek yogurt and freeze....



Oh man I just realized, I can do pineapples and peaches too! Holy Crap I love fruit!!!! I even love prunes, go figure. It is on!!!!!!!



Right now still finishing off most of my grains, once gone I will have them for my enjoyment only and on occasion not frequently. Once maybe twice a week. I am all about life enjoyments so I won't ever stick to only perfect food choices. However if I hit at the least 85% good choices I will still hit the majority of the health benefits of those following the Primal Diet.
Click to expand...
Pears right now are cheap, delicious and addictive.
If u blended all together w/the yogurt, that would be some great cheat tasting but not actual cheat icecream.... mmmmmm. I may do this next time I DL above 400. Carbs really seem to help on those days bc I start with DL and this can make me sluggish on my other circuits.
 
morry said:
Pears right now are cheap, delicious and addictive.
If u blended all together w/the yogurt, that would be some great cheat tasting but not actual cheat icecream.... mmmmmm. I may do this next time I DL above 400. Carbs really seem to help on those days bc I start with DL and this can make me sluggish on my other circuits.
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Sounds good!
 
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At this link you can click a link to send an email to your Congress reps an email stating you do not support this bill. It will take 2 minutes of your time. Send your friends a PM and get them to this thread or copy this into your own log and get the word out, this bill must be squashed!!!

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I didn't mention yesterday but I did a light workout on back for the most part but on Deadlifts I did some work. Sets of 15 @ 135, 225, 275, and 315. O bar curls 55,65, and 70.

Shoulder is a little sore but thank goodness it is spread across the muscle that runs over my joint. This lets me know it is just de-conditioned rotator cuff bitching at me for all of the sudden starting external rotations with 20 lbs when I hadn't done any in a long while...
 
MrKleen73 said:
I didn't mention yesterday but I did a light workout on back for the most part but on Deadlifts I did some work. Sets of 15 @ 135, 225, 275, and 315. O bar curls 55,65, and 70.

Shoulder is a little sore but thank goodness it is spread across the muscle that runs over my joint. This lets me know it is just de-conditioned rotator cuff bitching at me for all of the sudden starting external rotations with 20 lbs when I hadn't done any in a long while...
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when shoulder is sore that means you may have pushed it too far. the tendons only can recover so fast right?
 
MrKleen73 said:
This is very important to the availability and freedom of supplements. Big pharmacy is once again attacking the supplement industry, and wants to make Vitamins and any supplement with health benefits or hormone altering ability illegal to make and then turn them into prescription medications. Read more about it at the link or just take my word for it you do not want this bill passed through Congress!!!!!

At this link you can click a link to send an email to your Congress reps an email stating you do not support this bill. It will take 2 minutes of your time. Send your friends a PM and get them to this thread or copy this into your own log and get the word out, this bill must be squashed!!!

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Click to expand...

I saw this.. got it in an email. I have no problem with the misbrand part since they really shouldnt be marketing products with outlandish claims, on the FDA site you can see a list of the charges on various companies from everything to claiming it will cure you of AIDS to prevent swine flu, the altered part concerns me. It is very broad and can be open to interpretation, the email I got this in was from organic farmers and raw milk will fall under this and be made illegal. It has already been made illegal in Cali and this will make it illegal statewide. Also this will be limiting companies to HAVE to follow CGMP, while it is good it shouldnt be required, at least not in a free market system which is what we supposedly have.

I sent a letter to both of my senators, thanks for sharing Kleen!
 
Yeah but some of it will apply to things that claim to aid in any healthful benefit. The key is to read where they left loopholes more so than where they directed your attention with the bill. However any time the government want to step in and take control of free enterpirse is a bad situation.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Yeah but some of it will apply to things that claim to aid in any healthful benefit. The key is to read where they left loopholes more so than where they directed your attention with the bill. However any time the government want to step in and take control of free enterpirse is a bad situation.
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Well said and I agree.

The FDA kills more ppl a year than the CIA. They allow dangerous products to be released that have studies showing they are fatal bc they got a kick back of some sort.

This sh1t has got to stop. You know what they did in China to a guy that accepted bribes and allowed a dangerous drug on the market? They effing beheaded him......now that is what should happen.

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Link above

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a big fan of supplement companies either bc they do make some outrageous claims, but if ppl would just read and educate themselves they would see that a lot of the claims are bunk. Prescriptions however, have studies that are buried and never made public. People take it not know HOW dangerous and they drop dead.
The FDA should be dragged out and shot.....:soapbox:

And finally, I'll go ahead and say, not ALL supplement companies are garbage. Unfortunetly there are a good few that ruin it for the ones that actually give a sh1t and are helping ppl.
 
Oh yeah, and nice DL numbers Kleen. I bet it felt good to pull the 3 plates off the ground again :)

:hammer:
 
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