My take on IGF-1

[HappyHermit]

It's too bad that 30+ year old oxandrolone is patented in the U.S. after years of being dormant and there are no generic alternatives. It costs nothing to manufacture relative to other steroids like primo and eq, but a one month supply of Oxandrin(R) will run a dying cancer patient about $250 at 10-20mg/day. Pretty sad. I'd take my business elsewhere in that scenario, so to speak.

Oxandrolone is not naturally occurring like test base, or cannabis, or opium, or the IGF peptides. I think that is what you are saying about the IGF variants correct (natural)? Naturally occurring means pharms cannot patent the substance proper. No $ for them; "oh darn, we just made our first billion and now this...":deal:.

They can hold patents for the plain, naturally occurring substance in various forms as i think you mentioned, until their patents runs out and generics emerge. So then the money for them becomes the next delivery vehicle and new brand name/patent. The multiple topical testosterone base gels come to mind-Testim(R), AndroGel(R), and generic testosterone gel. I guess that b/c you don't have 1% test gel with aloe coursing through your veins naturally, this again agrees with what you said. Of course when the patent runs out on say AndroGel, that is when the pharms get smart and come out with AndroDerm(R). I can't wait for testoserone lollipops (or jolly rancher flavored lozenges) to come out personally:trink26:.

However, I wonder about test suspension-if they still made that legally-the first anabolic steroid synthesized-maybe it never had a brand name, but someone synthesized it back in the 50's or 30's or whenever. Or harvested it from 100 unwilling and soon to be hypogonadic men. Hey that's a good business model-"we can treat that-have some test susp, for $50/week, and you are gonna need hella AI's so that will be $100/week-we got u covered", LOL.

Seriously, I have never heard of a brand name for test suspension. What do you think? Is the testosterone crystals + water susp mix the same as testosterone in the system that cannot be patented or branded?

Hello dumbhick, your name is ironic because you are obviously not dumb. You correctly understood what I was getting at by saying that testosterone can't be patented and you explained why better than I did. I should have mentioned that the reason it can't be patented is because it is naturally occurring, that would have made my statement much clearer. While IGF-1 is naturally occurring Long R3 IGF-1 is not, it is actually a modified form IGF-1 that is not naturally produced in the body.

I'm not sure why this modification is any different metaphorically than Oxandrolone, and I'm not sure why a pharmaceutical company has not tried to exclusivly patent the Long R3 analog of IGF-1. I suspect that it may have something to do with how Long R3 IGF-1 was discovered. If this drug was discovered through research done at a university and was then written about in scientific journals I believe that the intellectual property rights would belong to the researchers that made the discovery. If Long R3 IGF-1 was discovered by a pharmaceutical company I'm sure that they would have already patented it and that company would exclusivly be doing clinical trials or research on it. I would love to hear what anyone else has to say about this topic.

I suppose that this situation would be similar to Jonas Salk’s discovery of the polio vaccine. He decided not to patent the polio vaccine, although he could have, because his intentions were not to get rich but to help people. When asked why he did not patent his discovery he replied "Could you patent the sun?" Under the current US patent laws you actually could patent the sun if you were the one that created it, even if people needed it to survive. Salk created the polio vaccine and people did need it to survive but he chose not to patent it so it could be produced and sold be anyone.

Another similar situation is the discovery of diacetylmorphine. A researcher named C.R. Wright first synthesized diacetylmorphine by boiling morphine. More than 25 years later Bayer pharmaceutical company patented a diacetylmorphine product under the trademark name Herion; but they could not patent diacetylmorphine, even though it is not naturally occurring, because Bayer did not own the intelluectual property rights for the discovery of diacetylmorphine. This is like Revitropin, only the name is patented not the drug.

Patent law is pretty strange and hard to fully understand. I'm not quite sure where the line is drawn between naturally occurring and man-made. For instance, extraction techniques of herbs can be patented even though the herb and all the constituants of the extract are naturally occuring, and as you mentioned, testosterone can be patented as AndroGel as long as it is combined with aloe vera; neither testosterone or aloe vera can be patented seperately but put the two together and make up a name for it and suddenly you have a product that can be patented. Regarding test suspension: I don't think that there ever was a brand name for it; but, like you said, if a company put together a package that included test suspension, an AI, a S.E.R.M, and some HCG and called it something like AndroBalance or TestCorrect, it could be patented(although nobody would buy it these days because you would have to inject it every day).

:sad6:fftopic:
One scenario that makes me wonder what patent laws will be like in the future is that genetically modified organisms(GMOs) can be patented. Monsanto has developed and patented genetically modified forms of corn, soybeans, and cotton that are resistant to certian pests, produce larger harvests, and grow stronger roots. Living things can be patented??!!??uke: I guess that Jonas Salk was wrong, if you can patent life you probably could patent the sun.:sad3:

 

[Blaster22]

Great read here. I just finished every page and am amazed at the amount of info that I got from it. I am really curious about Lr3 as well as IGF-1ec MGF as a bridge between cycles and have just started researching it. I know this thread started several years ago but is it still hold true regarding dosing? I have read from several sources including the makers that it should be dosed every day but I like the idea of e3d or eod. It just seems like it would make more sense and I certainly would not want the gut that was talked about. Not to hijack the thread since it is supposed to be about LR3 but what about MGF? Is that also supposed to be every day? Is a good cycle 30 days on 30 days off?

Also some manufacturers are saying it should only be mixed with BA which gives it a very short shelf life of around 48 hrs but with AA it can last as long as 30 days. If it is reconstituted with AA can I then add a small amount of BW to the syringe to make the injection less painful? Is the MGF also mixed with AA?

Finally is there a difference in between manufactures? There are plenty of them out there as well as several that advertise on this site with wildly different price. I have no problem paying a lot of money for the best but I don't want to get ripped off if pretty much every manufacturer is the same.

 

[Grunt7684]

By the way, my account "Grunt76" got hacked into and is now owned by a known scammer using my identity. I know there is no commerce being done here, but I think it's good that you guys knew.

Well, I'm here again...

 

[coop]

Yo Grunt,

Whats up bro? Glad to see you bro......Hope your doing well.

Bobbyn / Coop

 

[Vitticeps]

Wow, just finished reading this whole thread start to finish. Amazing amount of info for a single thread.

Funny how the more you know, the more questions you have. Time to wear out the search engine...

 

[Beelzebub]

Years passed and I still find this thread most helpful.

 

[jab4240]

hey grunt, i have a couple questions... i am starting my igf-1 in about 3 weeks which is following my aas cycle. should i still use the typical tribulus and creatine (of couse im using pct clomid and nolva) along with the igf-1?

my second question is. im using 40mcg. what would you suggest if my laggin body parts are everywhere lol? how often should i pin? i was thinking 2on 1off

 

[Grunt7684]

hey grunt, i have a couple questions... i am starting my igf-1 in about 3 weeks which is following my aas cycle. should i still use the typical tribulus and creatine (of couse im using pct clomid and nolva) along with the igf-1?

my second question is. im using 40mcg. what would you suggest if my laggin body parts are everywhere lol? how often should i pin? i was thinking 2on 1off

Rotate the bodyparts... Finish your workout with the part that you will pin it into. I like 3 times a week, more than that seems to diminish sensitivity but we are all different in this regard.

I have become type 2 diabetic over the years and recently IGF-1 does not make me go hypo... Seems that effect at least is purely insulin-receptor mediated...

So depending on your insulin resistance and your ability to sustain insulin sensitivity, that is one part of the equation. Depletion of myoblasts being the other...

 

[jab4240]

thanks grunt, but my coach is the one telling to pin everyday. hes been doing it for years and says thats what works... im confused....:dunno:

 

[Grunt7684]

thanks grunt, but my coach is the one telling to pin everyday. hes been doing it for years and says thats what works... im confused....:dunno:

Well there are exceptions to every rule, and he may well be one of them, but I think if you ask around, most guys will tell you to take a break.

Unless your coach is relatively young and also runs GH at a pretty high dose...

 

[Beelzebub]

Used igf a few times in the past and didn't really get much out of it. Tried grunt's method the past two times and noticed an actual difference. Like he says though, nothing drastic but over a period of time (even afterwards) becomes quite noticeable. Hell, a bottle last 2 months now.

 

[Grunt7684]

Used igf a few times in the past and didn't really get much out of it. Tried grunt's method the past two times and noticed an actual difference. Like he says though, nothing drastic but over a period of time (even afterwards) becomes quite noticeable. Hell, a bottle last 2 months now.

Interesting you would say that brother, since new research from the University of Michiganm, released only a week ago on March 15, now explains that the reaction of a muscle cell to IGF-1 will depend on its oxygen supply. When a myoblast has little oxygen, IGF-1 will promote myoblast proliferation and when the oxygen supply is high, IGF-1 will promote differentiation and fusion or even creation of new myotubes.

Obviously, immediately after training a muscle is when the oxygenation status of the muscle cell is maximized. That, and the upregulation of IGF receptors by a bout of intense exercise, militate strongly in favor of immediate-postworkout administration.

I guess I got lucky on this one.... :fest30:

 

[rippedfreak123]

i know this is all take on IGF-1 and i dont mean to steer off a wee bit..but would this protocol of Peg MGF and longr3 IGF-1 look good?

sunday and wednesday night 500 mcgs of Peg MGF
monday/wednesday/friday 40 mcg(bilateral) longr3 igf-1 PWO

does this seem reasonable?

thanks grunt..and good to see your still around brotha

 

[leanbody]

Hey Grunt;
Great thread - only read about 20 pages of it so I bet i missed your opinion on this - is acetic acid or BA better to use as a solvent?

Thanks for all the info dude!!!!

 

[Grunt7684]

i know this is all take on IGF-1 and i dont mean to steer off a wee bit..but would this protocol of Peg MGF and longr3 IGF-1 look good?

sunday and wednesday night 500 mcgs of Peg MGF
monday/wednesday/friday 40 mcg(bilateral) longr3 igf-1 PWO

does this seem reasonable?

thanks grunt..and good to see your still around brotha

I like the general idea but if you are going to do a wednesday of both IGF and pMGF, make your pMGF pinning a couple hours after the IGF.

 

[warbird01]

Thanks bro. I'm not sure what you mean about an exceptional bodypart and training on an off day. Long R3 IGF-1 loses 1% of its potency after one year at 98 degrees Fahrenheit.

So you dont need to store your mixed igf-1 in the fridge?

 

[Grunt7684]

So you dont need to store your mixed igf-1 in the fridge?

As long as it is mixed with the proper solvent, that is true.

 

[rippedfreak123]

thanks for the info grunt

 

[mtsteve124149]

So whats the score for storing IGF? If I bought 1mg, and reconstituted it with aa, it would still only last a week, even if refrigerated. I've read only about 10 pages of this thread but my brain only works for so long.

There must be a way of storing reconstituted IGF safely...

Also Grunt, what is your opinion on this

"IGF1 may be of particular interests to athletes, as it may improve their ability to learn new skills and techniques relevant to their sport. You see, IGF is a known neuroprotector and neuropromotor(13)(14)(15), which means new skills could be learned more quickly with IGF use, and for the elderly, some of the cognitive effects of aging could be staved off or possibly halted entirely with administration of IGF1"

Not sure how much faith i put in that.

also

"I´ve noticed that the magic happens between 60mcgs and 120mcgs per day, in divided doses. In general, people who have used less, and even up to 50mcg/day have had mediocre results"

There is so much conflicting information out there HELP!

1 How much should/could I use? 50mcg PWO into site specific muscles IM
2 How often should I use? EOD/E3D
3 How long should I use it for? Limit use to 4 weeks on 4 weeks off
4 Are the gains permenant? Yes, the new cells will grow long after you stop using IGF
5 How anabolic is it? Very mild, effects are long term
6 Will it help you learn new skills? Not bloody Likely.

Can you help me with my 6 questions Grunt.

 

[Grunt7684]

So whats the score for storing IGF? If I bought 1mg, and reconstituted it with aa, it would still only last a week, even if refrigerated. I've read only about 10 pages of this thread but my brain only works for so long.

There must be a way of storing reconstituted IGF safely...

Also Grunt, what is your opinion on this

"IGF1 may be of particular interests to athletes, as it may improve their ability to learn new skills and techniques relevant to their sport. You see, IGF is a known neuroprotector and neuropromotor(13)(14)(15), which means new skills could be learned more quickly with IGF use, and for the elderly, some of the cognitive effects of aging could be staved off or possibly halted entirely with administration of IGF1"

Not sure how much faith i put in that.

There are two kinds of IGF-1. There is IGF-1Ea, which LR3 imitates, and there is IGF-1Ec which is MGF. I think of all these, only peg MGF can cross the BBB. So peg MGF is your ticket there if you want to experiment. Personally I have some doubts that it makes any difference, although I have never used it with that in mind.

also

"I´ve noticed that the magic happens between 60mcgs and 120mcgs per day, in divided doses. In general, people who have used less, and even up to 50mcg/day have had mediocre results"

There is so much conflicting information out there HELP!

1 How much should/could I use? 50mcg PWO into site specific muscles IM
2 How often should I use? EOD/E3D
3 How long should I use it for? Limit use to 4 weeks on 4 weeks off
4 Are the gains permenant? Yes, the new cells will grow long after you stop using IGF
5 How anabolic is it? Very mild, effects are long term
6 Will it help you learn new skills? Not bloody Likely.

Can you help me with my 6 questions Grunt.

too many questions for me right now

 

[mtsteve124149]

I have another Q actually.

If running with GH what is the best way to go about running the two together?

 

[Frequency]

Interesting you would say that brother, since new research from the University of Michiganm, released only a week ago on March 15, now explains that the reaction of a muscle cell to IGF-1 will depend on its oxygen supply. When a myoblast has little oxygen, IGF-1 will promote myoblast proliferation and when the oxygen supply is high, IGF-1 will promote differentiation and fusion or even creation of new myotubes.

Obviously, immediately after training a muscle is when the oxygenation status of the muscle cell is maximized. That, and the upregulation of IGF receptors by a bout of intense exercise, militate strongly in favor of immediate-postworkout administration.

I guess I got lucky on this one.... :fest30:

You think albuterol would be a good addition pre-wo so that when IGF1 is used O2 saturation is maximized

 

[GeekPoop]

epic read

 

[Ubiquitous]

It's been a long time since I visited this thread, or even looked at a bottle of Lr3.

It's nice to see people are still talking about stuff touched on previously in page 3.

 

[Grunt7684]

It's been a long time since I visited this thread, or even looked at a bottle of Lr3.

It's nice to see people are still talking about stuff touched on previously in page 3.

LMFAO those are classic.

 

[Grunt7684]

You think albuterol would be a good addition pre-wo so that when IGF1 is used O2 saturation is maximized

Yeah, there may be some synergy with albuterol and EQ/Drol or other RBC-increasing AAS, not to mention EPO. But I would think that such effects would be nearly insignificant compared to the pre-/post-workout oxygenation states.

 

[trenboloni]

Quick question: I have IGF, hgh and slin (along with AS). I train 3 days in the gym, "on - on - off" ... repeat = totalling 4-5 sessions per week. Which of the below options would be the best:

1) 4iu slin + 8iu HGH + 30mcg IGF combined, and taken twice a week PWO
or
2) 4iu slin + 8iu HGH twice per week PWO and 30mcg IGF twice per week PWO

In other words, should I split up the slin + HGH + IGF "stack" into two separate doses (only igf vs. hgh+slin) or just take the whole "stack" twice a week? Both protocols would yield the same total weekly dosage. I would really appreciate your answer as the above items are so hard to get where I live and would like to take full advantage of the best dosing protocol. Thank you.

 

[DogSlime]

Yay I finally made it to the end lol. Very informative, answered all my questions thanks.

 

[pllookin]

This thread is gold...used it for a few runs of IGF.

Question, and please direct me to the answer if it has been answered. What are the thoughts on taking IGF intraworkout? For example, if one were doing a Sheiko routine that required benching at the beginning and end of a workout, when is the best time to inject? I'll probly inject chest twice a week at end of first chest part, and then legs once a week as well.

 

[morfeuss]

test

hello all.
Howone may assume that IGF-1 would take to evacuate the bloodstream. not the half life, but the compound and i guess tracers if one had to get a blood doping test?

not much info on this one...

 

[Grunt7684]

hello all.
Howone may assume that IGF-1 would take to evacuate the bloodstream. not the half life, but the compound and i guess tracers if one had to get a blood doping test?

not much info on this one...

The likelihood that you will tested for IGF-1 LR3 is nearly nil. If you were to get tested, I would say 72 hours is the maximum potential amount of time required to completely clear without leaving any trace whatsoever. In all likelihood it is quicker than that, but it is hard to tell, as such tests are very, very expensive to make, and so, studying a possible anti-doping-test procedure is quite prohibitive, if they even do test for LR3, which I doubt.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The likelihood that you will tested for IGF-1 LR3 is nearly nil. If you were to get tested, I would say 72 hours is the maximum potential amount of time required to completely clear without leaving any trace whatsoever. In all likelihood it is quicker than that, but it is hard to tell, as such tests are very, very expensive to make, and so, studying a possible anti-doping-test procedure is quite prohibitive, if they even do test for LR3, which I doubt.

if its a wada level test you should assume they do. they are very well funded now

 

[Grunt7684]

if its a wada level test you should assume they do. they are very well funded now

WOW, they're taking this stuff very seriously!!! :shocked1:

 

[mshams]

so if my calves r lagging it will have a localizing effect if i pin igf-1 in my calves? due to new muscle cell growth?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

WOW, they're taking this stuff very seriously!!! :shocked1:

Research Article
Quantification of human insulin-like growth factor-1 and qualitative detection of its analogues in plasma using liquid chromatography/electrospray ionisation tandem mass spectrometry
Michael Bredehöft, Wilhelm Schänzer, Mario ThevisArticle first published online: 30 JAN 2008

DOI: 10.1002/rcm.3388

Copyright © 2008 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
Issue
Rapid Communications in Mass Spectrometry
Volume 22, Issue 4, pages 477–485, 28 February 2008

Publication History
Issue published online: 30 JAN 2008
Article first published online: 30 JAN 2008
Manuscript Accepted: 10 DEC 2007
Manuscript Revised: 6 DEC 2007
Manuscript Received: 22 OCT 2007
Funded by
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)
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Abstract
Human insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) is a peptide hormone that acts as a mediator of most of the somatotropic effects of growth hormone (GH). Therefore, it is supposed to be a biomarker indicating GH abuse in sports as well as diseases associated with a change in IGF-1 plasma concentration. It can be applied locally by injection to increase total protein and DNA content in tissues such as skeletal muscle – a highly desirable effect in various sports disciplines. In order to improve its growth-promoting properties, the primary structure of IGF-1 has been modified, yielding analogues such as des(1-3)IGF-1 and LONG™R3IGF-1, which show a considerably reduced affinity to the respective binding proteins in plasma and, thus, an increased bioavailability at target tissues. Due to their capability to enhance performance, IGF-1 and its analogues belong to the prohibited list of the World Anti-Doping Agency. Hence, it was necessary to develop a reliable assay for the quantification of human IGF-1 as well as the detection of its derivatives. Immunoaffinity isolation and purification from 60 µL of plasma followed by liquid chromatography/electrospray ionisation tandem mass spectrometry enabled the unequivocal determination of all target analytes. Diagnostic product ions were characterised utilising an Orbitrap mass spectrometer with high resolution/high accuracy properties and employed for triple quadrupole MS/MS analysis. The described assay provided lower limits of detection (LLODs) between 20 and 50 ng/mL, recovery rates between 34–43% and a precision <15% at the LLOD as well as higher concentration levels. In order to prove the applicability of the developed assay, human plasma samples were analysed and the results were compared with the values obtained from a commercially available immunoradiometric assay (IRMA). Four of six samples resulted in concentration ratios with good correlation between both assays, whereas the absolute concentrations were lower for the presented procedure. Copyright © 2008 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

 

[Grunt7684]

Wow, great info. Now I wonder how long LR3 stays detectable. Must be a very short time though, like most peptides.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Wow, great info. Now I wonder how long LR3 stays detectable. Must be a very short time though, like most peptides.

That article refers to its detection in plasma not urine. As far as i know there is no urine assay. But just because no information on a urine assay has been published does not mean one does not exist and is not being implemented

 

[TheKreation]

Stacking PEG-MGF/MGF/IGF-Lr3...yay? or nay?

To whom that may have the mighty knowledge (Grunt),
What is your take on the possibility of PEG-MGF action "overlapping" the action of IGF-Lr3?

PEG-MGF has the long(er) half-life (4days?). Do you think that stacking PEG-MGF with IGF-Lr3 will inhibit the process of IGF in the body as far as differentiation goes? and Vice versa...IGF inhibit PEG-MGF process?

This is assumed someone is using the protocols:
PEG-MGF Sunday only
IGF M/W/F

OR

PEG-MGF S/W split
IGF M/T/T/F split

Secondly
If infact they could/do interfere with one another, how about a dosing scheme such as:
PEG-MGF 400mcg Sunday
Reg. MGF 100mcg Pre/Post split Monday/Tuesday
Reg. MGF in lagging body part(s) Wednesday morning at 100mcg
IGF-Lr3 Wednesday/Thursday/Friday 40-60mcg postworkout only.

So your training scheme would be to hit your lagging parts twice.
Monday and Tuesday Lagging portions (arms/shoulders)
Wednesday rest
Thursday : Chest/Bicep (pin bicep)
Friday : Back/shoulders (1-3 ex's for shoulders) (pin shoulders)
Saturday : Legs/Triceps (pin triceps)

This THEORY would incline that PEG-MGF would work it's magic Sunday through Wednesday and even into Thursday perhaps. And while it's doing that, you're supplementing postworkout with direct MGF(regular/non-peg) to "wounded muscle tissues". Then the other half of the week you're targeting IGF's effects of differentiation onto the lagging body part(s).

Yeah, price wise it's ****ty...but overall concept; what ya think?

 

[morfeuss]

That article refers to its detection in plasma not urine. As far as i know there is no urine assay. But just because no information on a urine assay has been published does not mean one does not exist and is not being implemented

Yes, but now Wada does Blood tests plus urine tests...and many have been caught from hgh

i found this online

The combination of IGF-1, P-III-P, and ICTP as indicator for
growth hormone abuse was studied in a group of female athletes
(n = 100) and compared to a control group (n = 9) treated with
hGH. The sensitivity of the approach was 66.6% at the end of a
treatment period of 3 weeks and 11.1% 15 days after cessation of
the administration, leading to the conclusion that the employed
approach might need further improvement to allow for a better
sensitivity during as well as shortly after hGH administration.[

 

[LittleMonster]

great read!

 

[Markusrulezzz]

2 questions

IGF1 LR3 for 21 years old, is that too early ?

and what's a good dosage to not get any inter organs grow ?? Not at all, not even a lil bit

 

[Grunt7684]

2 questions

IGF1 LR3 for 21 years old, is that too early ?

and what's a good dosage to not get any inter organs grow ?? Not at all, not even a lil bit

No one knows exactly how much it takes to make organs grow.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

No one knows exactly how much it takes to make organs grow.

huh speak for yourself

the answer is 42.40923 micrograms a day

precision is a must here folks. less means no gains. more means ronnie coleman intestines

 

[xjsynx]

huh speak for yourself

the answer is 42.40923 micrograms a day

precision is a must here folks. less means no gains. more means ronnie coleman intestines

Would you say, IGF-Lr3 has it's place in one's bodybuilding endeavors?

And could it be synergistic with the use of PEG-MGF?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Would you say, IGF-Lr3 has it's place in one's bodybuilding endeavors?

And could it be synergistic with the use of PEG-MGF?

IGF-Lr3 may have some utility for connective tissue with localized use. I just dont see it doing much of anything for muscle though. Or for fat loss.

MGF by injection probably is not a whole lot more useful than IGF-1 and i dunno if the pegylation does anything to help that

These growth factors can be of benefit for muscle growth but they would have to be delivered via gene therapy or someway where localized chronic exposure to the muscle is acheived

I know these things held tremendous hope and people still want to believe that they can live up to the hype. And yes these are powerful growth factors. However the reality is they are truly powerful only when manufactured by the tissues themselves. Systemic administration just does not deliver the concentrations necessary at the site where they are needed

 

[NeckerCube]

Hello there people,

Few days ago I started using IGF-1 LR3 for cartilage repair in my shoulder. (I damaged it very badly 3 years ago)
I started with 40mcg E3D directly in shoulder, as deep and close to cartilage I can (considering it's 1/2" slin pin).

I've also read tons of studies for cartilage repair regarding IGF, and it all points out it's very possible. Now the main problem in damaged cartilage was too much of IGFBP-3, which bound almost all IGF-1 and cartilage would get none. As I understand, R3 version has it's own BP's, Glu and Arg, and still fits in cell receptor. That way IGFBP-3 is overridden. So, if I shoot directly in cartilage, or IGF-1 R3 gets to bloodstream and gets systemic, even cartilage would get it. Right?

Had anyone had experience with cartilage rehabilitation with IGF? Grunt, any comment?

Thank you.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Hello there people,

Few days ago I started using IGF-1 LR3 for cartilage repair in my shoulder. (I damaged it very badly 3 years ago)
I started with 40mcg E3D directly in shoulder, as deep and close to cartilage I can (considering it's 1/2" slin pin).

I've also read tons of studies for cartilage repair regarding IGF, and it all points out it's very possible. Now the main problem in damaged cartilage was too much of IGFBP-3, which bound almost all IGF-1 and cartilage would get none. As I understand, R3 version has it's own BP's, Glu and Arg, and still fits in cell receptor. That way IGFBP-3 is overridden. So, if I shoot directly in cartilage, or IGF-1 R3 gets to bloodstream and gets systemic, even cartilage would get it. Right?

Had anyone had experience with cartilage rehabilitation with IGF? Grunt, any comment?

Thank you.

igf-1 lr3 does not have its own binding proteins. rather it is impervious to binding proteins. so it stays free in the body. this increases its activity, but it also makes it more quickly metabolized

i dont think its a good idea to inject directly into cartilage. some doctors will use a long needle into the intraarticular space and inject healing substances, but not into the cartilage itself. In the case of tendons, some doctors will slide the needle under the thin sheath that covers the tendon but not go right into the tendon itself

 

[NeckerCube]

igf-1 lr3 does not have its own binding proteins. rather it is impervious to binding proteins. so it stays free in the body. this increases its activity, but it also makes it more quickly metabolized

i dont think its a good idea to inject directly into cartilage. some doctors will use a long needle into the intraarticular space and inject healing substances, but not into the cartilage itself. In the case of tendons, some doctors will slide the needle under the thin sheath that covers the tendon but not go right into the tendon itself

When I said "directly into cartilage" I actually meant intra articular, not into cartilage itself. I wasn't clear enough, thanks for pointing out.

For now, I'm shooting into delts, and hoping some of it will get to cartilage.
I'll try to go intra articular, but 40mcg is such a small amount of liquid, so it would be problematic to dose it in long needle.

But the question is, will any of IGF get into cartilage from delts?
I'm taking IGF in the morning, not PWO, so some of it should get systemic.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

When I said "directly into cartilage" I actually meant intra articular, not into cartilage itself. I wasn't clear enough, thanks for pointing out.

For now, I'm shooting into delts, and hoping some of it will get to cartilage.
I'll try to go intra articular, but 40mcg is such a small amount of liquid, so it would be problematic to dose it in long needle.

But the question is, will any of IGF get into cartilage from delts?
I'm taking IGF in the morning, not PWO, so some of it should get systemic.

40mcg is a small amount of liquid? yes if you dissolve it in a small amount of liquid it is. You can dissolve it in 0.1cc or a gallon.

its not gonna get into your cartilage if you inject in a muscle. cartilage has very very little blood flow going to it. either you get the solution right there or forget it

 

[NeckerCube]

40mcg is a small amount of liquid? yes if you dissolve it in a small amount of liquid it is. You can dissolve it in 0.1cc or a gallon.

its not gonna get into your cartilage if you inject in a muscle. cartilage has very very little blood flow going to it. either you get the solution right there or forget it

Yep, I dissolved it in 1ml of AA. So it's a small amount of liquid.
And yes, I know cartilage has very little blood flow, and that is the main reason why it's difficult to rehab it.

Thank you for your answers. I'll find a way to get it there.