My take on IGF-1

Patrick Arnold

Patrick Arnold

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Taper up, taper down. Make sure everything can be repeatable. Doses will be low. I have 5mg and will start with 50mcg/night and go from there...
first assumption is the stuff you have is real

if it isnt, then you can have a false negative result.

that always concerns me
 
fueledpassion

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first assumption is the stuff you have is real

if it isnt, then you can have a false negative result.

that always concerns me
Well, they haven't let me down with any of my past experiences which include Clomid, Nolva, Clen, Keto, IGF-1 LR3, Cialis, Varden, UDCA, Exemestane, etc etc.

And I mean not one of those have been a bad experience for me. Either way, the GHRH and GHRP test is a go. I include all of my notes for each blood test that I perform. I try to include any and all information that might be essential to the outcome.
 

tryingtologin

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Question for you guys. After reading this thread, and particular PA's more recent posts, would taking IGF 1 lr3 as a stand alone "cycle" have any muscle building effects? Hyperplasia nor hyper trophy? Any strength gains? It is widely being pumped up everywhere else on the net to do excactly that.

Cheers for any replies.
 
fueledpassion

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I noticed strength gains, but I can't say on that hyperplasia. I never noticed anything but good pumps and strength increases. It's good at nutrient partitioning (aka mimics insulin well). So with that said, I'd run a low dose preWO ED, and run GHRP-6 PWO with it. They work well together.
 
Patrick Arnold

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Question for you guys. After reading this thread, and particular PA's more recent posts, would taking IGF 1 lr3 as a stand alone "cycle" have any muscle building effects? Hyperplasia nor hyper trophy? Any strength gains? It is widely being pumped up everywhere else on the net to do excactly that.

Cheers for any replies.


none at all IMO
 
Patrick Arnold

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there has never been any evidence that taking igf-1 in any form causes hyperplasia in adults

so why do people keep thinking it can?
 

tryingtologin

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there has never been any evidence that taking igf-1 in any form causes hyperplasia in adults

so why do people keep thinking it can?
Well, I can only speak for my self, but while trawling the net for info on it, I've come across a large number of sites claiming all sorts of fantastic results. And then reading just as many user reports stating they've all had good gains in size and strength. Bro science perhaps. It wasn't until I read this thread this info has been disputed. And I know you are very knowledgeable in the area with a massive street cred.

Now you clearly disagree with the claims of hyperplasia, do you see any hyper trophy assistance with this peptide? There is also some misinformation in relation to lr3 being longer lasting in the body? Your posts are all short and sweet, care to elaborate?

cheers guys
 
fueledpassion

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You're better off taking GHRP/GHRH combo for increase in serum IGF-1 levels. IGF-1 LR3 is not the same as IGF-1. LR3 would be very useful in nutrient partitioning PWO, kinda like insulin. Combine it with a nice peptide pulse of GH and it's be really nice but mostly useful in fat burning and glucose shuttling. Am I on the right track, PA? Isn't this why people report nice fat burning on cycle with it along with Type 1'ers claiming they need less insulin injections as a result of IGF-1 LR3 administration?
 
Patrick Arnold

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Well, I can only speak for my self, but while trawling the net for info on it, I've come across a large number of sites claiming all sorts of fantastic results. And then reading just as many user reports stating they've all had good gains in size and strength. Bro science perhaps. It wasn't until I read this thread this info has been disputed. And I know you are very knowledgeable in the area with a massive street cred.

Now you clearly disagree with the claims of hyperplasia, do you see any hyper trophy assistance with this peptide? There is also some misinformation in relation to lr3 being longer lasting in the body? Your posts are all short and sweet, care to elaborate?

cheers guys

i dont have time to elaborate sorry.
 

lildave99

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With my work schedule it ends up being that most of the time I am going to the gym within 4 hours of going to bed. Would it be best for me to take it lets say 2 hours before I go to the gym to give myself a lot of time between injecting and going to bed?
If I keep the dosage low would it not be as big of a deal?
 
RedwolfWV

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There are lots of theories that you will hear and read. The one that I subscribe to is tried and true, and works for me. I'm not going to say that there aren't other ways of using it, but this is what works FOR ME. When I'm using IGF-LR3, I shoot it immediately when I get home from the gym, in the muscles that I worked out. Like if I did biceps, I would use 40mcg, 20 in each bicep. There are no worries about going to bed immediately after. Its not Insulin... its not going to make you go hypo, at least not to any kind of danger point. I will say that it might affect some people differently, so your mileage may vary.
 

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thanx... maybe I just give it a try on a week off to find out for sure
 
fueledpassion

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Well, if you take it every day then the time of the day for the dosing would matter less than an EOD or E3D protocol. The stuff lingers in your system for days at a time.
 

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Hi , I am an athlete, have torn ucl in left elbow and damaged ucl in right elbow. Was told by a doctor to try to rehab the left elbow first , build muscles that would perform the function of torn ucl. If that does not work , then surgery. I cannot afford long downtime at this time so I need all help I can get. I am new to all this , only suppliments I have taken are vitamins, minerals, oils and protein powder. I have never taken any anabolic steroids , hgh or igf-1 , etc.
I read that igf-1 might help my problem. Any input? Also I have no idea on dosage, how to dilute (and what solvent to use) , what size needle and syringe to use, and what muscle to pin and how. My goal is to have localized growth of the target muscles (left and right elbows) and repair of damaged ligament (right elbow) with minimum side effects and minimize traceability of the substance.
Thank you
 
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Patrick Arnold

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Well, if you take it every day then the time of the day for the dosing would matter less than an EOD or E3D protocol. The stuff lingers in your system for days at a time.

endogenous igf-1 has a pretty long half life because it binds to serum binding protein 3 and forms a very stable complex

longr3 igf-1 however does not bind to serum binding proteins and so has a substantially shorter half life
 
fueledpassion

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endogenous igf-1 has a pretty long half life because it binds to serum binding protein 3 and forms a very stable complex

longr3 igf-1 however does not bind to serum binding proteins and so has a substantially shorter half life
I was under the impression that LR3 has a half-life of about 48hrs. So is it more like 12-24hrs instead? Or even less? Either way, I take the stuff ed so it wouldn't much matter to me.

BTW, I need some proper directions on how to get the most accurate set of blood tests done pertaining to GHRP-6/CJC-1295 combo. I'm currently still taking it and wanted to get my hormone panel done soon to check up on everything. Suggestions?
 
Patrick Arnold

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I was under the impression that LR3 has a half-life of about 48hrs. So is it more like 12-24hrs instead? Or even less? Either way, I take the stuff ed so it wouldn't much matter to me.

its alot less than that. i cant find the information but its not long.

plus if u read the animal anabolic studies on longR3 u would be concerned that the anabolic effect is quite selective for the gut over the muscle
 
Patrick Arnold

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I was under the impression that LR3 has a half-life of about 48hrs. So is it more like 12-24hrs instead? Or even less? Either way, I take the stuff ed so it wouldn't much matter to me.
although there are no specific figures mentioned, this thread from years ago discusses the subject in some detail

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/64385-misconception-half-life.html


people probably thought longR3 had a longer half life than regular igf-1 because it lowers blood glucose alot more and for alot longer. but that is because of its lack of binding to binding proteins and not due to its sticking around in the blood alot longer
 
fueledpassion

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although there are no specific figures mentioned, this thread from years ago discusses the subject in some detail

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/64385-misconception-half-life.html


people probably thought longR3 had a longer half life than regular igf-1 because it lowers blood glucose alot more and for alot longer. but that is because of its lack of binding to binding proteins and not due to its sticking around in the blood alot longer
Ok so what about IGF-1 DES? How does is compare to IGF-1?
 

mazdaspeed619

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is there a place to find a KEY for the abbreviations such as EVD or EOD? I am super lost! EOD=Every Other Day?

BTW GREAT THREAD! By far one of the easiest threads to read on here, except the abbreviations (then again that is because I am a damn noob. give me time to learn).
 
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I was under the impression that you weren't supposed to inject igf post workout because it blunts you mgf production, is this not true?
 
GO_OUTSIDE!

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Like most I bought into the IGF-1 LR3 hype and am now sitting on 2mg. After reading this thread, well most of it anyways, I am wondering if it is worth the hassle of pinning it at all. Its funny how the story changed from 2006 till now.
I also grabbed some ipamorelin, is this stuff also worthless?

I've tried most of the supplements that have come into my price range within the past 10 years. So far besides PH's I only have DAA, Divanex and Tribulous that I can say made a difference.
Is there anything that does work to help hardgainers boost muscle mass or limit connective tissue issues?
 
mattikus

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Igf is mostly crap these days. If you can get the real deal it can work quite well.
 
Patrick Arnold

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I agree, localized is def the way to go! I also localize in my injuries.
It is incorrect that IGF-bound to BP3 is useless. In fact that opposite is true. BP3 protects the IGF-1 from rapid metabolism and so extends its half life greatly. the complex delivers IGF-1 to target tissues where enzymes cleave it.

As a matter of fact a IGF-1 BP3 complex was patented as an anabolic drug as it is superior to rh-IGF-1!! Its called mecasermin rinfabate.

LongR3 has a shorter half life than rh-IGF-1 not a longer half life and this is due to the fact that it circulates unbound
 

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100% The majority of IGF-1 being flogged is bogus. I only get the real deal from stem cell researchers.
Yeah wouldn't it be nice if we all had access to this! I tried IGF once and I feel it was bunk
 
Patrick Arnold

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I concur that localized use (most specifically for connective tissue and other areas of poor blood supply) is probably to best utilization of IGF-1 - especially longR3 IGF-1. It really is not a good choice for a whole body anabolic agent as it is quite non-specific for muscle and also can be troublingly hypoglycemic
 

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I was excited to start my IGF-1 lr3 until reading majority of this. I don't if I should take it or count it as a loss. If site injections aren't going to benefit my lagging body parts I feel no need to go thru with it. Going hypoglycemic with out any muscle growth sure isn't worth it to me.
 
fueledpassion

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I was excited to start my IGF-1 lr3 until reading majority of this. I don't if I should take it or count it as a loss. If site injections aren't going to benefit my lagging body parts I feel no need to go thru with it. Going hypoglycemic with out any muscle growth sure isn't worth it to me.
It works in conjunction with GH though. Either way, systemic GH/IGF does little for muscle growth. Its local growth factors that promote growth. This is why I'm convinced GHS peptides are the better option since they accomplish this in a cheaper & safer fashion.
 

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It works in conjunction with GH though. Either way, systemic GH/IGF does little for muscle growth. Its local growth factors that promote growth. This is why I'm convinced GHS peptides are the better option since they accomplish this in a cheaper & safer fashion.

I wasn't ready to go the GH route so I figured igf sounded like the way to go. Then coming across so many mixed reviews on it I started having my doubts.

So now I sit with bottles of bw, AA, some igf and peg mgf....
 
fueledpassion

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I wasn't ready to go the GH route so I figured igf sounded like the way to go. Then coming across so many mixed reviews on it I started having my doubts.

So now I sit with bottles of bw, AA, some igf and peg mgf....
Peg mgf @ 4-6mg/wk with GHRP's will do a nice job.

Mgf and Igf are antagonistic, as in they compete for receptors.
 
fueledpassion

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So peg mgf with GHRP will do what as far as muscle growth?
Assuming you have real Peg-MGF, in conjunction with GHRP's and Mod-Grf, it'll help you grow. Peg causes growth in the entire area of the injection though. I'm not 100% certain that micro-injections are necessary as they are with regular MGF, but dosing it in the realm of 2mg (the entire vial) a few hours after PWO would be ideal, perhaps twice a week for 4 weeks max. So you'd need 4mg/wk. MGF protocols are even more expensive than GH if you want it done right.

Running GHRP's several times per day should also be included.
 

zinc38

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Assuming you have real Peg-MGF, in conjunction with GHRP's and Mod-Grf, it'll help you grow. Peg causes growth in the entire area of the injection though. I'm not 100% certain that micro-injections are necessary as they are with regular MGF, but dosing it in the realm of 2mg (the entire vial) a few hours after PWO would be ideal, perhaps twice a week for 4 weeks max. So you'd need 4mg/wk. MGF protocols are even more expensive than GH if you want it done right.

Running GHRP's several times per day should also be included.

Thanks I appreciate your knowledge on this...Ill definitely give that a try.

btw...any signs to look for to tell you have legit peg-mgf while taking it?

can you shoot me a pm?

thanks
 

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Assuming you have real Peg-MGF, in conjunction with GHRP's and Mod-Grf, it'll help you grow. Peg causes growth in the entire area of the injection though. I'm not 100% certain that micro-injections are necessary as they are with regular MGF, but dosing it in the realm of 2mg (the entire vial) a few hours after PWO would be ideal, perhaps twice a week for 4 weeks max. So you'd need 4mg/wk. MGF protocols are even more expensive than GH if you want it done right.

Running GHRP's several times per day should also be included.
I've been running PEG mgf in conjunction with Mod grf cjc w/o dac and GHRP-2.
Via my research PEG Mgf should be taken on the days following training, as it will blunt your natural mgf which is released post workout.
That is what I have been doing.
mgf is localized and short acting...
MGF can proliferate muscle cells, so its possible to change your "genetic potential" (create more cells) by using it.

But you have to use a lot. I've been using 150mcg-200mcg on post workout days and when i started i began feeling my muscles being more fuller. Definitely more growth in my biceps.
 
Patrick Arnold

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I've been running PEG mgf in conjunction with Mod grf cjc w/o dac and GHRP-2.
Via my research PEG Mgf should be taken on the days following training, as it will blunt your natural mgf which is released post workout.
That is what I have been doing.
mgf is localized and short acting...
MGF can proliferate muscle cells, so its possible to change your "genetic potential" (create more cells) by using it.

But you have to use a lot. I've been using 150mcg-200mcg on post workout days and when i started i began feeling my muscles being more fuller. Definitely more growth in my biceps.

just about everythign you say here has no basis in reality
 

Sketch2000

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just about everythign you say here has no basis in reality

Care to elaborate?
I don't know you Patrick. I don't know what you have written or what research you've done. But its pretty clear at this point you know far more than the layman. I would suggest however if you would like to respond and help me get whatever it is I'm doing wrong - right (or inform me where my logic has no basis) than that would be far better than a sarcastic response. I would also appreciate it more, as I"m sure would many others.

Cheers.
 
FitModel

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Well, in conclusion I'm a little disappointed in the more recent information, if I understand correct IGF-LR3 would have little effect on muscle hypertrophy and/or fat loss...and I still can't figure out if it's stable in BA or only AA...lol.
 
Patrick Arnold

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Care to elaborate?
I don't know you Patrick. I don't know what you have written or what research you've done. But its pretty clear at this point you know far more than the layman. I would suggest however if you would like to respond and help me get whatever it is I'm doing wrong - right (or inform me where my logic has no basis) than that would be far better than a sarcastic response. I would also appreciate it more, as I"m sure would many others.

Cheers.

i know of no evidence that exogenous systemic mgf would blunt the production of mgf in the muscle. exogenous mgf has barely even been studied to begin with

yes mgf is produced locally and acts locally (it is an autocrine hormone).

mgf (or any other substance for that matter) cannot initiate muscle hyperplasia in adults. thats simply a myth

The only tests of mgf products I am aware of failed to detect that compound btw
 

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i know of no evidence that exogenous systemic mgf would blunt the production of mgf in the muscle. exogenous mgf has barely even been studied to begin with

yes mgf is produced locally and acts locally (it is an autocrine hormone).

mgf (or any other substance for that matter) cannot initiate muscle hyperplasia in adults. thats simply a myth

The only tests of mgf products I am aware of failed to detect that compound btw
Thank You.
 
karenduff

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This is great
 
cory0475

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Hey quick question. So reading through this sticky I hurd people say it doesnt cause hyperplasia in adults. Does it do it in other age groups?
 

Loneyboy

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So, since IGF-1's main use would be to grow new muscle cells, would it be beneficial in terms of muscle growth still to someone who isn't at their genetic potential? Just curious.
 
basskiller

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wonder what ever happened to grunt? I know he waned to start his on board but hat was many years ago. He just up and disappeared
 
fueledpassion

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IGF-1 has two different types

Systemic and local

Local is what u want. It makes growth occur, but growth can occur in absence of IGF though.

Systemic causes unwanted sides such as binding to gut receptors and cancerous cells, causing growth everywhere.

Exogenous IGF predominantly causes systemic reactions but also increases local interaction to some degree. It takes high doses of exo IGF to accomplish this.

Exogenous GH also causes both systemic IGF AND local IGF but to a greater degree than exogenous IGF. It works and has its sides too.

It's also possible that systemic IGF may somehow causes programmed fat cell death, making one appear leaner after a cycle of it. Still speculative though.

GHS peptides such as GHRP and mod GRF cause endogenous GH to be released. This way is the natural order of things - they way the body would normally work, only amplified by like 10X the normal amount. This method minimizes systemic IGF, maximizes local IGF and serum GH, which gives greater lypolysis and muscle building but within the natural pulsation. This makes it a relatively safe method.
 

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