Erase vs. Formestane
- Thread starter jart45
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freefall365
Active member
i prefer not using steroidal AIs
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Two very DIFFERENT products. Erase is a NATURAL AI. Formestane is a STEROIDAL AI.
~Rosie~
The Primordial Woman
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
You have to put Formestane on transdermally for it to be effective, or take HUGE oral doses
Erase has a lower Ki value than Formestane. This means that Erase is a better and more potent aromatase inhibitor.
Formestane has metabolites that can actually shut down your natural testosterone levels, and cause delayed gyno.
Erase does not have metabolites like this. Erase is a potent suicide aromatase inhibitor...look no further
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
It would be effective, since Formestanes metabolites offer an androgenic effect
But Erase/DAA/DTH would be very effective alone...without the form
JudgementDay
Legend
I'm liking Erase more compared to CEL's Formestane, but still havn't tried NTBM forma-stanzol.
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
I assume you're talking about Erase. Just make sure she has her NUTRITION AND TRAINING targeted at her goals, has built a SOLID training base (ideally training PROPERLY for at least 1-2 years) and is ALREADY using the basic staples - if she's inexperienced re training or is a newbie to any of this, then she should not be using Erase.
freefall365
Active member
i think i missed something, what is DTH?
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Diesel Test Hardcore by Get Diesel.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
Well you're comparing a one product run to a 3 product run so money wise forma-stanzol takes it.
Strength wise and muscle wise, I can say without a doubt forma-stanzol will yeild more results in growth over the other 3 stacked. Test boosters and a natural AI will not produce results in the gym IMHO. Their use sticks to being an AI or simply boosting test (which won't yield gym results) but it will give you a pretty looking blood test result so they definitely have their spot
I have never put on mass or really gained strength from test boosters and don't see a natural AI doing so either.
Forma-stanzol is an effective steroidal AI with solid anabolic properties. I wouldn't go as far as saying it will "shut you down" lol it is very light in that department. But it is steroidal, and you will lean out and build muscle a lot faster than naturally possible even if using natural supplements.
It depends what your looking for. If you want a good looking blood results I would go with the 3 products (they sound solid for a PCT run and health benefits) but I doubt they will help in the gym in a noticeable manner. If you want gym results... I would say it's obvious forma-stanzol will give you them.
freefall365
Active member
Well you're comparing a one product run to a 3 product run so money wise forma-stanzol takes it.
Strength wise and muscle wise, I can say without a doubt forma-stanzol will yeild more results in growth over the other 3 stacked. Test boosters and a natural AI will not produce results in the gym IMHO. Their use sticks to being an AI or simply boosting test (which won't yield gym results) but it will give you a pretty looking blood test result so they definitely have their spot
I have never put on mass or really gained strength from test boosters and don't see a natural AI doing so either.
Forma-stanzol is an effective steroidal AI with solid anabolic properties. I wouldn't go as far as saying it will "shut you down" lol it is very light in that department. But it is steroidal, and you will lean out and build muscle a lot faster than naturally possible even if using natural supplements.
It depends what your looking for. If you want a good looking blood results I would go with the 3 products (they sound solid for a PCT run and health benefits) but I doubt they will help in the gym in a noticeable manner. If you want gym results... I would say it's obvious forma-stanzol will give you them.
^^ totally respect this opinion bro, but I've had results I'm confident prove otherwise. And if you really want any meaningful anabolic effects from form hadn't you better be running a very high dose? IMO the results of a natural AI and form can be quite similar, dose dependent, and a natural AI has some advantages too IMO. But I agree each have their place. Some people love form (talk to bigT if you wanna shoot the sh*t on form--he's the form sensei), but as a young dude with a full head of hair, I don't feel like running form for AI is worth lowering DHT levels. That said, I keep hearing nothing but good stuff about NTBM's form.
BurghHardcore
Well-known member
You're correct. I think he means though he has no reason to run Formestane over a natural AI such as Erase. The reason being to block DHT.
freefall365
Active member
well high levels of DHT can cause hair to fall out in ppl prone to MPB, but DHT is not your enemy, DHT is an important androgen in males..DHT prohormones of course also exist as an anabolic. DHT is special because it can't convert to estrogen : )
I personally don't like the idea of using a product that lowers estro but also lowers DHT.
To be fair, I'm really not sure how much test is stopped from being converted to DHT while running Form. I'd be interested in finding out though.
some ppl use drugs to block dht to try and stop balding...and often report not being able to get it up as a side... i'd rather a shiny head : )
andrew732
Well-known member
Forma will not cause shutdown if used REASONABLE, since it blocks prolactin it can be stacked with 1-2 caps of Erase which blocks cortisol. They both work through different means while inhibiting aromatase. They can be stacked together, it all depends what your main goals are.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
I got you dude. Well if you've experienced otherwise with test boosters and natural AI yielding results in the gym all the more to you. I personally use them as health supplements instead of something that would help me put up weights or build muscle cuz they never have in my experiences.
That part I don't get^^ it sounds like you're saying you have a full head of hair and don't want to risk losing it with forma-stanzol by lowering DHT? Lowering DHT will keep your head full of hair.
I also understand where you're coming from but I don't see that little drop in DHT causing bad sides like you said a low libido. Forma-stanzol takes your libido up... according to Bigt... sensai of forma LOL. So no worries there either.
I like what Andrew said. I would add in the forma-stanzol for the anabolic effects (which will show even on moderate doses freefall) and add other supplements around it. I just don't see any of the supplements mentioned causing anabolic effects apart from forma-stanzol so to me that's the central supplement of the stack. We differ on this part. It's cool freefall I respect your opinion also
freefall365
Active member
i'm just throwing my opinion out there, ^^^ this man actually knows his stuff
I agree taking some herbals is not going to build muscles directly or quickly or easily. But raising test and hopefully keeping levels high certainly will help you grow in the gym eventually IMO. Even being more aggressive in the gym, (attributing aggression to elevated test to make my point) will help build muscle over the long haul if you can let that aggression push you to work harder. I totally get what you're saying tho choc., no herbal is going to slap on lbs of muscle.
what i meant by the confusing statement "but as a young dude with a full head of hair, I don't feel like running form for AI is worth lowering DHT levels. That said, I keep hearing nothing but good stuff about NTBM's form" is that i'm not worried about high levels of DHT because I have no symptoms of MPB, so I don't really want to do anything to reduce an androgenic hormone in my body... and if I were to use form right now it would be NTBM's product.
I agree taking some herbals is not going to build muscles directly or quickly or easily. But raising test and hopefully keeping levels high certainly will help you grow in the gym eventually IMO. Even being more aggressive in the gym, (attributing aggression to elevated test to make my point) will help build muscle over the long haul if you can let that aggression push you to work harder. I totally get what you're saying tho choc., no herbal is going to slap on lbs of muscle.
what i meant by the confusing statement "but as a young dude with a full head of hair, I don't feel like running form for AI is worth lowering DHT levels. That said, I keep hearing nothing but good stuff about NTBM's form" is that i'm not worried about high levels of DHT because I have no symptoms of MPB, so I don't really want to do anything to reduce an androgenic hormone in my body... and if I were to use form right now it would be NTBM's product.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
hey i'm just throwing my opinion out there, ^^^ this man actually knows his stuff
I agree taking some herbals is not going to build muscles directly or quickly or easily. But raising test and hopefully keeping levels high certainly will help you grow in the gym eventually IMO. Even being more aggressive in the gym, (attributing aggression to elevated test to make my point) will help build muscle over the long-haul. I totally get what you're saying tho choc.
what i meant by the confusing statement "but as a young dude with a full head of hair, I don't feel like running form for AI is worth lowering DHT levels. That said, I keep hearing nothing but good stuff about NTBM's form." is that i'm not worried about high levels of DHT because I have no symptoms of MPB, so the more DHT the better in my case, and if I were to use form right now it would be NTBM's product.
Ohhhhh ok. That makes sense now. Good sh*t brah :cheers:
SouthernCharm
Well-known member
This is what I do daily... Works great...
reecew
Active member
Pretty good question, PCT from what though?
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
You can get some great results from Form if done right i think someone else on here said it BigT knows his stuff when it comes to form. I've ran PP's LV Form with some great results. It leaned me out alot and got some good lean muscle mass with it at a relatively low dosage. But i wouldn't go shoving it on everyone. Erase is a far more safer route for someone just starting into AI's and testboosters.
Xpballer
Active member
sayyyy for example, A sd-epi bridge. All oral cycle
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
Both would be solid products for a PCT. Erase would get in there and do it's thang to chop down estrogen. If you play your dosages right with forma-stanzol you could provide good anabolism without hindering recovery to give a really nice boost to PCT and sustain gains. But can't go wrong with either for PCT.
russianstar
Well-known member
Very dose dependent, we are not talking about 4-hydroxytestosterone here, it only converts at well over 100mgs when used transdermaly and ive never heard of anyone geting delayed gyno from it, its been used in the medicinal field since 1983 to treat estrogen caused cancers, the same as other well know A.I's.
Erase does have a lower ki value, but itdoesnt increase igf-1 levels the same way formestane does, and it doesnt prevent prolactin induced sides the way formestane does.
I reccommend forma-stanozolol.
BTW ive used Androst-3,5-dien-7,17-dione as a cortisol blocker since i first got my hands on it in late 2006, its very good, its good at boosting test but ive never seen much evidence of it lowering estradiol, unless your using at like 100mg or more, then the increase in test is likely to cause suppression.
Forma-stanozolol is being used by many here and even at a low dose can remove the problems caused by estrogen, best of all it inhibits aldosterone so preventing water retention and high blood pressure.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
So you admit you seen the research showing the Ki value for its affinity to bind to aromatase, but you say it doesn't lower estro?
Then you say Erase causes suppression, but tout Form?
Wow.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Well you're comparing a one product run to a 3 product run so money wise forma-stanzol takes it.
Strength wise and muscle wise, I can say without a doubt forma-stanzol will yeild more results in growth over the other 3 stacked. Test boosters and a natural AI will not produce results in the gym IMHO. Their use sticks to being an AI or simply boosting test (which won't yield gym results) but it will give you a pretty looking blood test result so they definitely have their spot
I have never put on mass or really gained strength from test boosters and don't see a natural AI doing so either.
Forma-stanzol is an effective steroidal AI with solid anabolic properties. I wouldn't go as far as saying it will "shut you down" lol it is very light in that department. But it is steroidal, and you will lean out and build muscle a lot faster than naturally possible even if using natural supplements.
It depends what your looking for. If you want a good looking blood results I would go with the 3 products (they sound solid for a PCT run and health benefits) but I doubt they will help in the gym in a noticeable manner. If you want gym results... I would say it's obvious forma-stanzol will give you them.
Wait... what? Are you seriously saying that DAA + Strong AI isn't comparable? That Erase + DAA wont improve your gym numbers?
There is just too much research for this.
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
I cannot speak for your experience or the batch of the compound you got, but there are literally hundreds of reviews on this compound between AM, and 4-5 other forums, and my inbox, that show not just "good" results, but Phenomenal.
The reason I question the quality of your raws is that if you took 100mg of Erase your joints would probably feel like someone shoved hot sand in all of them, unless you were on a heavy aromatizing cycle. Erase is VERY potent
Even your fellow NTBM guys love the stuff, and gamer had a reduction in his gyno with it. And he's not the only one...
Personally, I don't think it is fair to even compare Formestane to Erase.
Formestane is good for an anabolic effect, but not good for increasing testosterone levels or as a standalone. I have seen people lose their libido when taking it and even after they stop
Erase will give you an increased testosterone, decreased estrogen, and decreased cortisol all in one, simple, cheap, oral, 50mg dose per day.
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
Well you're comparing a one product run to a 3 product run so money wise forma-stanzol takes it.
Strength wise and muscle wise, I can say without a doubt forma-stanzol will yeild more results in growth over the other 3 stacked. Test boosters and a natural AI will not produce results in the gym IMHO. Their use sticks to being an AI or simply boosting test (which won't yield gym results) but it will give you a pretty looking blood test result so they definitely have their spot
I have never put on mass or really gained strength from test boosters and don't see a natural AI doing so either.
Forma-stanzol is an effective steroidal AI with solid anabolic properties. I wouldn't go as far as saying it will "shut you down" lol it is very light in that department. But it is steroidal, and you will lean out and build muscle a lot faster than naturally possible even if using natural supplements.
It depends what your looking for. If you want a good looking blood results I would go with the 3 products (they sound solid for a PCT run and health benefits) but I doubt they will help in the gym in a noticeable manner. If you want gym results... I would say it's obvious forma-stanzol will give you them.
Can you explain to me how increasing your testosterone, an anabolic steroid, will not increase your numbers in the gym, but formestane, a weak anabolic, will? Seems illogical
:thinking:
oufinny
Well-known member
Russian I am taking Erase at 100mg ed and I cannot see how it does not lower estro levels, trust me it does. My test is up without question, I have the aggression, acne and continued recovery from my workouts to attest to that. Estrogen is definitely down as water has dropped from all over my body in a noticeable amount and my joints are telling me pretty clearly that something is up... they don't hurt otherwise so tell me it is not due to a drop in Estrogen. Both products have their place and for MOST people, Erase is probably a better/safer option. With formestane you need to dose it properly and taper off to avoid estrogen rebound, something most novices do not have the knowledge of or willingness to follow through with.
Also, saying that natural test boosters and AIs don't yield muscle is an ignorant statement I might add. CM I have a lot of respect for you and you are a wealth of knowledge; in this case I am going to have to say you are dead wrong. Everything that I have gained UNTIL I ran AndroHard was all gained through hard work with the help of herbal/natural supplements. All you have to do is look at my before and after pics from Pink Magic and then Natadrol; there is no question I gained muscle mass. On top of that, I made those gains while I was on a cut (PM) and then recomp (Natadrol).
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
There is research for showing it helps in the gym?
Or research showing it raises test levels and lowers estrogen? <-- This I bet there is.
I don't doubt they increase testosterone and reduce estrogen. I just see that as more of a health benefit over a gym benefit. That's just my opinion and it stems also from experience of raising natty test and lowering estrogen multiple times on my body.
Testosterone is a weak anabolic steroid. When used in such a large number over physiological levels, it finally becomes a strong anabolic steroid (but even then it is weak in the scheme of things and mainly a base to other stronger anabolic steroids). I don't see muscle building anabolic properties coming from raising natural test levels unless they are actually SUPER high. I don't think the nuts are even capable of producing that much test so it must be taken exogenously at a large dose to yield solid results.
Formestane is a weak anabolic, but I guarantee you more anabolism from formestane over any other supplements mentioned. And more anabolism over natty test levels.
I just think from the choices offered, formestane offers the most anabolic properties towards physique and gym numbers. Erase does have a lower KI value, but that doesn't necessarily mean more anabolism. Just less aromatizing enzyme present. Erase is solid at what it does. If I'm after solely estrogen reduction Erase is a solid choice... but if I'm after gym results & estrogen reduction, I would grab forma-stanzol.
oufinny
Well-known member
I am setting PRs right now on 4 Erase per day with AS-GT as the only other test booster I am using; surely something like DAA or a test booster with proven ingredients will yield excellent results.
russianstar
Well-known member
If you look at any posts i have ever made about our transdermal formestaneproduct, look at the dose i reccomend... then get back to me... unless you think 60mg causes suppression.
Or did you not know that the suppression caused by formestane was dose dependent?
What something does on paper and what it actualy achieves are 2 entirely different things...in response to erase and its ki value.. i didnt say it doesnt lower estro i said you need a larger dose, its got other better qualities.
In answer as to wther i have proof it prevents progestenic activity.. or prolactin like sides here are some references..
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Invalid Link Removed
And il tout whatever i believe in.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
I know they will help in the long run. If you have the time and patience dedicated they will no doubt help in the scheme of things over training with no supplements. I'm just comparing them to forma-stanzol. They won't offer fast results as forma-stanzol would is all I'm saying.
It is just my top pick out of the bunch and I explained why. You all have valid points and I hope you guys see where I'm coming from also.
Link me the pics! I haven't seen them.
russianstar
Well-known member
Ahhaaa like i said youd need 100mg ed re read my post. Thank you for prooving my point... even then its estrogen suppression qualities are not that great, trust me ive seen and tried nearly every ai in existence.
The loss of water and the aching joints could easily be attributed to its potent cortisol inhibiting effects... give me bloods from a controled study and i will take that as evidence. But ive used this far longer than you and i dont use it for its A.I PROPERTIES ANYMORE, but like i said it has other superior qualities.
As for your other statements they werent directed at me so i wont get involved.
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
Guys..
If someone has Test levels 800 and someone has test levels 500 and they train for a year. Both diet and training are constant... The 900 one will build more muscle. Not by too much but he will. So I know numbers DO mean something, but they mean something in the long run unless in super physiological levels. If you're after the long run go for it. I like my shortcuts. It's why I cycle too. And formestane offers the short cut out of the products mentioned. It's up to the individual and the goals. All products mentioned here are solid at what they do but must be chosen based on the individuals goals. OP didn't even mention his goals lol. Our discussion doesn't mean much without them.
If someone has Test levels 800 and someone has test levels 500 and they train for a year. Both diet and training are constant... The 900 one will build more muscle. Not by too much but he will. So I know numbers DO mean something, but they mean something in the long run unless in super physiological levels. If you're after the long run go for it. I like my shortcuts. It's why I cycle too. And formestane offers the short cut out of the products mentioned. It's up to the individual and the goals. All products mentioned here are solid at what they do but must be chosen based on the individuals goals. OP didn't even mention his goals lol. Our discussion doesn't mean much without them.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Man your posts annoy me. Your condescending attitude you have around here brings a negative light to the company you work for. Now go send out a mass PM to all of the other forum to come neg me like you did Grey Warden!
Now, you go on to say the suppression is dose dependent, and I never made any other assertion there. Then you SPECULATE that Erase would be suppressive, yet the research showing if either product is suppressive it is Forma.
Keep up with the condescending attitude and your nonsense theories. The results are showing the real capabilities.
Now, you go on to say the suppression is dose dependent, and I never made any other assertion there. Then you SPECULATE that Erase would be suppressive, yet the research showing if either product is suppressive it is Forma.
Keep up with the condescending attitude and your nonsense theories. The results are showing the real capabilities.
russianstar
Well-known member
Well my raws are produced in my lab so i dont doubt the quality.
I did have aching joints..But i have with any cortisol blocker that works, the worst of all being 11-oxo, or adrenosterone,... but when my bloods were done, my estradiol levels were only fractionaly less, however cortisol was far less..Test was raised though, and i did not say it didnt boost test, another thing i love about erase was its amazing macro****e stimulating effect.
I dont think its fair to make the comparison either so please dont, one is steriodal, one isnt, if you look back you will see i didnt do that first.
Im sure you have hundreds of happy users, it provides a phsycological impact that users can see.
And im certain in certain cases that erase will decrease the symptoms of gyno.
Kid regards RS
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
This thread has spiraled into lots of headaches
CM my man...like oufinny said youre usually dead on with your science and knowledge but your logic here is in left field
And as far as Erase dosing goes...everyone has different levels of estrogen and different conversion rates. I have seen people take 50mg Erase and that is their sweet spot. When they take 75mg it is too much. And I have seen guys like oufinny who liked 100mg.
Russian could easily be a guy who needs 100mg for it to be effective, where as I am someone who only needs 50mg. Out of ALL the feedback we have gotten, 50-75mg seems to be what people prefer, but thats not to say theres plenty who like 100mg as well
CM my man...like oufinny said youre usually dead on with your science and knowledge but your logic here is in left field
And as far as Erase dosing goes...everyone has different levels of estrogen and different conversion rates. I have seen people take 50mg Erase and that is their sweet spot. When they take 75mg it is too much. And I have seen guys like oufinny who liked 100mg.
Russian could easily be a guy who needs 100mg for it to be effective, where as I am someone who only needs 50mg. Out of ALL the feedback we have gotten, 50-75mg seems to be what people prefer, but thats not to say theres plenty who like 100mg as well
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
I said this as well, as I have in other threads, but people continue to compare. Ah well
russianstar
Well-known member
lol, I said it was dose dependent in my first post, nothing new.
I dont speculate that erase will be suppresive, i know that any test boosters that lower estrogen will suppress hpta if they are used over a prolonged period and the dose is high enough.
Thats why i have recently asked those interested in bulbine not to use it for long periods.
Some things may seem to be nonsense to those without understanding..."yes i can be condescending", but re read all my posts i have not contradicted myself, you have merely misundertood them.
Forma is suppressive... if dosed high enough, did i say it wasnt? please point that out to me bro.
As for negging people its not my style, so please dont judge me by yourself.
kind regards RS
russianstar
Well-known member
Well said man... you have diplomaticly defended your product, and why shouldnt you.. it works!
I have merely defended mine, im sorry if it came over differently to that.
Take care bro, RS
chocolatemilk
Well-known member
Well I hold my opinion still. Test boosters and AI's need lots of time to show solid results. If you have time go for it. If you don't, a steroidal AI will yield faster results.
That is all gentlemen.
And everyone needs to chill out. A discussion is a discussion. In an discussion like this condescending attitude might show up a little bit because it is an argument type of discussion. But please stick to the argument at hand. I'm sick of companies calling out companies over arguments about supplements and how they work. Keep the discussion on what it's about, and don't get your panties in a bunch when someone speaks with a heavier tone in the discussion. It is expected to happen within argument type discussions. It's all good guys. I love discussions like these but hate it when people go off topic from it and display that off topic point as an argument in itself. It won't stand in a discussion.
For the fourth time... all products mentioned here are SOLID at what they do.
Have a good day everyone
And OP, asses your goals and choose based on your goals and not just the supplements. You're goals are extremely important in your decision.
bikeswimlive
Well-known member
Awesome discussion here. Also, no one is showing any love for 6-bromo (my usual choice).
nattydisaster
PESCIENCE.com
bikeswimlive
Well-known member
Group Hug!
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SouthernCharm
Well-known member
For sake of my sanity, lets not compare another one
x2! lol... :eek5: