Kleen BLASTS OFF DC Style w/ Asteroid Stack at his back!

[MrKleen73]

Day 19 - Nice workout.

Hey everyone I don't have tons of time but I will tel you about my workout and that my hamstrings held up. I am still suffering from a head cold, getting out of bed today was not easy and I didn't think my workout was going to be any good. My first couple warm ups on biceps were pathetic, just going through the motions. FInally when I put the weight on and sat down for my workset was I able to conjure up some intensity that just multiplied on itself as the set went on, going on into a very good workout.

Preacher Curls 105x12-4-1= 17 log book 16, up 1 rep

Pinwheel curls 60x14 log book 14 same, however this felt like more rep than last time. I wonder if I counted one or two extra last time due to the alternating. I get confused on counting with alternating sometimes when really pushing it.
DC Bicep stretchx60

Seated Calve Raise 3p x11 log book 10, up 1 rep

Seated leg Curls 100x15-4-4 = 23 no log reference
Hamstring stretch with 25 lb plate 2x30 seconds.

Squats 315x10 log book 275x13
WidowMaker 225x20 logbook 205x20 so that is why it is called a widowmaker....
60 second quad stretch. I had trouble getting this one to really sink in. Need to make some bar height adjustments until I know my best bar height.

315 x10 on squats is not a best I beleive I got 12 last month. However I was doing squats first before hamstring work. While everything was fresh so I am happy with that weight considering my hamstrings were pre exhausted and how tight they are right now. Widow Maker was awesome. I think I had 235 in me though. We will see next time!!!

 

[punthra]

Nice workout Kleen!

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Nicely done Kleen. I think the hamstring pre-exhaust definitely makes you draw more from your quads.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Very nice workout bro.

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice workout Kleen!

Thanks!

Nicely done Kleen. I think the hamstring pre-exhaust definitely makes you draw more from your quads.

Yeah I definitely felt the difference, I was a little nervous with 315 and my hams acting up but once I lowered into the shoot I knew I had it. Although at my initial 225 warmup set, my hams were trembling near lock out. So moving up made me nervious, 315 forced the tremors to stop and then it was go time.

Very nice workout bro.

Thanks, I am really liking DC so far. Lowered my reps to 13 on low end so I can push a little harder. I also made a spreadsheet to make my log easier to keep up with. There are a few changes to exercises that have been made and you will see them with No Log reference if I have not performed them before on the blast instead of listing the difference from last time.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Thanks!



Yeah I definitely felt the difference, I was a little nervous with 315 and my hams acting up but once I lowered into the shoot I knew I had it. Although at my initial 225 warmup set, my hams were trembling near lock out. So moving up made me nervious, 315 forced the tremors to stop and then it was go time.



Thanks, I am really liking DC so far. Lowered my reps to 13 on low end so I can push a little harder. I also made a spreadsheet to make my log easier to keep up with. There are a few changes to exercises that have been made and you will see them with No Log reference if I have not performed them before on the blast instead of listing the difference from last time.

Spreadsheet is a very good idea.

 

[Army Guy]

good job Kleen! things moving along nicely!!

 

[metroba]

Damn 35lb jump on squat is very nas! :head:

 

[thundergod]

I am still suffering from a head cold, getting out of bed today was not easy and I didn't think my workout was going to be any good. My first couple warm ups on biceps were pathetic, just going through the motions. FInally when I put the weight on and sat down for my workset was I able to conjure up some intensity that just multiplied on itself as the set went on, going on into a very good workout.

This is something that I have experienced many times over the years. You just don't "feel" it when you start the workout. But by the time the warm-up sets are out of the way and you load that bar up......it's go time!!! You click that mental switch and block out all that's negative. Then even the heavy shit feels light!!!
Your positive outlook will carry you through some incredible battles with the iron!!!
In fact, I'm getting ready to kill that cold steel right now!!:evil:

 

[MrKleen73]

Day 20 - Intense day at the gym.

Man todays workout was great! I increased on most things and went down a little on one or two but I understand why and as always will go into detail as I go.



H.S. Decline Bench 160 ps x10-4-3 =17 / No entry 2720 total

N.G. Pull Ups BW+20x9-6-3 =18 /BW +20x16 +2 reps 3960 total

Push Press 165x11-3-3 =17 /165x14 +3 reps 2805 total

Close Grip Bench 205x9-4-3 =16 /205x17 -1 rep 3280 total, but the extra on push press probably fatigued them more so I am not unhappy.

Dorian Rows 135x9-3-3 =15 /115x21 20 lb increase per side and still in range NOICE!!! 2025 total

All in all I added some serious overall volume to the weight lifted here. 14790 lbs total, will see what volume is next time too.

Spreadsheet is a very good idea.

Yeah, I just feel it was needed then I have my last weight / reps and paste into the new sheet, then print take to gym fill out then put numbers back inan I am squared. I will add formulas to it as I go to do it automatically then make a template. Maybe even include one that counts overall weight of work sets for each exercise and workout totals.

good job Kleen! things moving along nicely!!

Thanks Army, stay safe over there brother, we are excited your coming home soon.

Damn 35lb jump on squat is very nas! :head:

Yeah it felt good to hit it like that again.

This is something that I have experienced many times over the years. You just don't "feel" it when you start the workout. But by the time the warm-up sets are out of the way and you load that bar up......it's go time!!! You click that mental switch and block out all that's negative. Then even the heavy shit feels light!!!
Your positive outlook will carry you through some incredible battles with the iron!!!
In fact, I'm getting ready to kill that cold steel right now!!:evil:

Hope you have a great lift Bro!

 

[MrKleen73]

Other things I forgot to mention.

My legs are deliciously sore, my hamstrings are sore but they feel great like they are sore for the right reason. My quads are even slightly sore. My diet is pretty consistent, having about 25-40 extra grams of carbs over what I listed daily right now to see how it treats me. I may have overshot caloric needs at 3000 and beieve i am still gaining weight, and am smoothing out a little. Nothing too bad but nothing I want to continue. I will keep an eye on it and may throw a clean up week in next week like my original plan was. I think it makes sense. Like a week of 2500 just to shape things up. Of course my cardio was suffering from not doing it to rest the hammies but that will start again tomorrow so I may not need to recalculate too much to drop a little fat.

 

[metroba]

lol deliciously sore...I love it

 

[DreamWeaver]

Other things I forgot to mention.

My legs are deliciously sore, my hamstrings are sore but they feel great like they are sore for the right reason. My quads are even slightly sore. My diet is pretty consistent, having about 25-40 extra grams of carbs over what I listed daily right now to see how it treats me. I may have overshot caloric needs at 3000 and beieve i am still gaining weight, and am smoothing out a little. Nothing too bad but nothing I want to continue. I will keep an eye on it and may throw a clean up week in next week like my original plan was. I think it makes sense. Like a week of 2500 just to shape things up. Of course my cardio was suffering from not doing it to rest the hammies but that will start again tomorrow so I may not need to recalculate too much to drop a little fat.

Funny how were all struggling with our hamstrings now... I guess combining intense quad training with things like SLDL is the reason.

 

[hman85]

Hey kleen whats a dorian row?

 

[MrKleen73]

Funny how were all struggling with our hamstrings now... I guess combining intense quad training with things like SLDL is the reason.

Yeah, I noticed that, seems everybody is complaining about the hamstrings right now. Yeah I am pretty sure you are right. I also added Karate back in too. I think you can stretch so much you over stretch and make the fascia survival reflex kick in earlier so it pulls against the stretch giving us that tight feeling tingling feeling. I know that is basically what happens with pulled muscles too they contract a little to protect themselves.

 

[MrKleen73]

Hey kleen whats a dorian row?

This one was on Hammer Strength Dorian Row Machine, but basically the Dorian Row is an underhand grip bent over barbell row lowering the bar a little forward then pulling the bar to your lower abdomen and hip area instead of pulling it to the bottom of your ribs. Allows the arms to get a little further behind the back for a better squeeze of the lats and lower lats.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Man todays workout was great! I increased on most things and went down a little on one or two but I understand why and as always will go into detail as I go.



H.S. Decline Bench 160 ps x10-4-3 =17 / No entry 2720 total

N.G. Pull Ups BW+20x9-6-3 =18 /BW +20x16 +2 reps 3960 total

Push Press 165x11-3-3 =17 /165x14 +3 reps 2805 total

Close Grip Bench 205x9-4-3 =16 /205x17 -1 rep 3280 total, but the extra on push press probably fatigued them more so I am not unhappy.

Dorian Rows 135x9-3-3 =15 /115x21 20 lb increase per side and still in range NOICE!!! 2025 total

All in all I added some serious overall volume to the weight lifted here. 14790 lbs total, will see what volume is next time too.




Yeah, I just feel it was needed then I have my last weight / reps and paste into the new sheet, then print take to gym fill out then put numbers back inan I am squared. I will add formulas to it as I go to do it automatically then make a template. Maybe even include one that counts overall weight of work sets for each exercise and workout totals.


Thanks Army, stay safe over there brother, we are excited your coming home soon.

Yeah it felt good to hit it like that again.



Hope you have a great lift Bro!

Very nice workout bro.

 

[orbitron3000]

very nas :thumbsup:

 

[John Smeton]

Yeah, I noticed that, seems everybody is complaining about the hamstrings right now. Yeah I am pretty sure you are right. I also added Karate back in too. I think you can stretch so much you over stretch and make the fascia survival reflex kick in earlier so it pulls against the stretch giving us that tight feeling tingling feeling. I know that is basically what happens with pulled muscles too they contract a little to protect themselves.

Interesting you say that. i have been doing Dc stretches for a while. Over two years now for legs. eight months ago I was going to physical therapy and the girl told me one hamstring is shorter than the other and I needed to stretch it a certain way.

she gave me the exercise and said this exercise done over many months should lengthen it.

 

[MrKleen73]

Interesting you say that. i have been doing Dc stretches for a while. Over two years now for legs. eight months ago I was going to physical therapy and the girl told me one hamstring is shorter than the other and I needed to stretch it a certain way.

she gave me the exercise and said this exercise done over many months should lengthen it.

Really what kind of stretch did she have you doing?

 

[John Smeton]

Really what kind of stretch did she have you doing?

one leg up in air, other strait and stretch. it was mainly for the top right hamstring .

the only thing I could think of that caused this was the sldl I did for years heavy 275 lbs for reps all the way down, could have been my form. now I do them Dorian Yates style down to a little below knees instead of all the way down. or it could of been Dc stretching.

or it could have just been a pulled hamstring from too much work. I try to analyze cause and effect and fix it as much as I know how to as this is a must to know what caused our injuries and what to do prevent them.

 

[MrKleen73]

one leg up in air, other strait and stretch. it was mainly for the top right hamstring .

the only thing I could think of that caused this was the sldl I did for years heavy 275 lbs for reps all the way down, could have been my form. now I do them Dorian Yates style down to a little below knees instead of all the way down. or it could of been Dc stretching.

or it could have just been a pulled hamstring from too much work. I try to analyze cause and effect and fix it as much as I know how to as this is a must to know what caused our injuries and what to do prevent them.

Somehow in trying to visualize that I have twisted myself into a mental pretzel. LOL

 

[subweevil]

Gratz on the God daughter and 7 years, that's a true blessing!!

 

[thundergod]

one leg up in air, other strait and stretch. it was mainly for the top right hamstring .

the only thing I could think of that caused this was the sldl I did for years heavy 275 lbs for reps all the way down, could have been my form. now I do them Dorian Yates style down to a little below knees instead of all the way down. or it could of been Dc stretching.

or it could have just been a pulled hamstring from too much work. I try to analyze cause and effect and fix it as much as I know how to as this is a must to know what caused our injuries and what to do prevent them.

I also changed my SLDL's to Dorian Yates' style a couple of years ago. I can go heavier and it doesn't overstress my hamstrings. I also keep my knees just slightly bent instead of truly stiff. Believe it or not, I can feel the contractions even better with this "looser" form. Of course, it only appears loose. But you know what I'm saying.

The way I was doing them was like you see most pro's doing them. Standing on a bench and lowering them all the way down. This was accompanied by pain that doesn't feel like it should. It just fuggin' hurt!!!

And since you mentioned the DC stretches, I will toss this in. Mr. Kleen may have to forego the hamstring stretches that DC utilizes. Even though I never used a total DC routine, I did formulate a hybrid DC routine. I did the rest-pauses and all that. But I used my own stretches. Some of those DC stretches are a little extreme. I don't think that stretching should resemble torture!!!:aargh4:

 

[DreamWeaver]

I also changed my SLDL's to Dorian Yates' style a couple of years ago. I can go heavier and it doesn't overstress my hamstrings. I also keep my knees just slightly bent instead of truly stiff. Believe it or not, I can feel the contractions even better with this "looser" form. Of course, it only appears loose. But you know what I'm saying.

The way I was doing them was like you see most pro's doing them. Standing on a bench and lowering them all the way down. This was accompanied by pain that doesn't feel like it should. It just fuggin' hurt!!!

And since you mentioned the DC stretches, I will toss this in. Mr. Kleen may have to forego the hamstring stretches that DC utilizes. Even though I never used a total DC routine, I did formulate a hybrid DC routine. I did the rest-pauses and all that. But I used my own stretches. Some of those DC stretches are a little extreme. I don't think that stretching should resemble torture!!!:aargh4:

Interesting you should mention knees bent a little. I have been so tight lately that I see my knees bending on sldl but I don't feel I am lacking that much in the stretching of the hamstring. I think you just have to feel it and if you hanstring is too tight for that motion then your knees will bend a bit, not the end of the world I still feel I am hitting them very hard.

I like the idea of DC stretches being so brutal and think it's a good idea for anybody who is getting on stage. The extra flexibility will be very good for muscle contraction. :bigok:

 

[MrKleen73]

I agree with just about everything everyone has said right now while I am recovering I am using a less intense form of stretching for my hamstrings. Flexibility isn't a problem for me I just think I strained the muscle to the point my reflex is kicking in early causing the issue. It is improving though as I changed things up on back thickness to Hammer Dorians to keep strain off of lower back and hams. I also think I will do another row of some sort to instead of rack deads in the blast. My back is my strongest point and I like that but I can afford going with something else besides rack deads to save myself from injury. They can be in my next blast.

I also think the extreme stretching is very good for lengthening the muscle belly allowing for not only more growth, but more aesthetics at the contractions produce better peaks and sweeps the longer the belly is. As well as increasing muscle seperation. But you definitely need to know when you are stretching too hard. Since there is a lot of rest between this intense stretching bouts I think it is probably perfect recovery for the stretches in a healthy individual. But may need modified for pulls or when excessive tightness is occuring.

 

[MrKleen73]

Day 21 - HOW MUCH BIGGER YOU GONNA GET?

I don't have a lot to say but what I have to say says a lot. I just ran into one of the attorneys up here and he looked at me and started asking me stuff like "Man, how much bigger are you gonna get? You are just getting so much bigger, you can't really get much bigger than that can you? YOu are really getting huge, I just can't believe how much bigger you have gotten recently."
Oh HELL TO THE MUTHA FUGGIN YEAH BOOOOUUUUYYYYYY!!!!!

Real genuine guy too, not one of those slick guys who says everything with an angle to later benefit himself. I know I said he was an attorney then described the opposite in personality traits but he is an exception to the rule.

 

[hman85]

I don't have a lot to say but what I have to say says a lot. I just ran into one of the attorneys up here and he looked at me and started asking me stuff like "Man, how much bigger are you gonna get? You are just getting so much bigger, you can't really get much bigger than that can you? YOu are really getting huge, I just can't believe how much bigger you have gotten recently."
Oh HELL TO THE MUTHA FUGGIN YEAH BOOOOUUUUYYYYYY!!!!!

Real genuine guy too, not one of those slick guys who says everything with an angle to later benefit himself. I know I said he was an attorney then described the opposite in personality traits but he is an exception to the rule.

Nice! Sounds like your doing something right or more like alot of things!

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah it was nice to hear, letting my abs go a little trying to add some mass has been driving me nuts but that at least made me feel like I was growing more because if it. I haven't been on a scale this week but I have kept to my higher cals and think I have gained more weight. I will be weighing in in the morning when I go to the gym. I am sure I am over 200, maybe 202-203, we will see. I know I have been experiencing some strength gains for sure. I only have a couple more weeks of eating for size so I am trying to force myself to do so. I think I have smoothed out as much as I want to allow myself too though.

 

[orbitron3000]

props man. sounds like you're definitely making progress towards your goals!

 

[metroba]

Kleen, how much over maintenance are your cals?

 

[MrBigPR]

lookin fuggin but up clean! keep doing it up!

 

[subweevil]

WOW, just WOW!!

 

[MrKleen73]

Kleen, how much over maintenance are your cals?

Between 500-750 I am going to fade it back just a bit around 250-350 over and see if I can keep muscle coming with no fat gain.

lookin fuggin but up clean! keep doing it up!

WOW, just WOW!!

Thanks Guys, I am enjoying the ride so far. Gonna head up to the gym shortly and smash bi's, forearms and legs will post up details later.

 

[MrKleen73]

Day 22 another great day in the gym.

I had a great workout, I somehow left my clip board at home and thought it was db curls today and did those but I was supposed to have done drag curls. Oh well. Still a nice workout.

DB Curl - 60x9-3-2 =14

DB Hammer Curl - 60x10
Bicep stretch 45 sec

Standing Donkey Calf raise 300 x8 this one has a pivoting back pad that makes it very dynamic, that made the long pauses at the bottom more than I could handle at 8 reps. LOL Staying here increasing reps. Still I am kind of mad I pussed out 2 reps away. Will do much better next time from sheer determination.


Sumo Leg Press - 10 plates x 15-6-5 =26 going up

Hack Squats 315x14 going up
WM 225x20 going up
Quad stretch 45 sec

I did several sets of crunches in sauna and about 10 vacuums of various lengths. Came out and hopped on a weighted crunch machine 110 lbs 15 times wife showed up and we walked out. Was a good day at the gym.

I am officially 202 lbs fasted. Yep Large and in charge!!!!

 

[John Smeton]

I had a great workout, I somehow left my clip board at home and thought it was db curls today and did those but I was supposed to have done drag curls. Oh well. Still a nice workout.

DB Curl - 60x9-3-2 =14

DB Hammer Curl - 60x10
Bicep stretch 45 sec

Standing Donkey Calf raise 300 x8 this one has a pivoting back pad that makes it very dynamic, that made the long pauses at the bottom more than I could handle at 8 reps. LOL Staying here increasing reps. Still I am kind of mad I pussed out 2 reps away. Will do much better next time from sheer determination.


Sumo Leg Press - 10 plates x 15-6-5 =26 going up

Hack Squats 315x14 going up
WM 225x20 going up
Quad stretch 45 sec

I did several sets of crunches in sauna and about 10 vacuums of various lengths. Came out and hopped on a weighted crunch machine 110 lbs 15 times wife showed up and we walked out. Was a good day at the gym.

I am officially 202 lbs fasted. Yep Large and in charge!!!!

looking lean and full. Sumo presses are usually one strait set, if you insist two separate strait sets. nice numbers on the hacks as well.

 

[MrKleen73]

looking lean and full. Sumo presses are usually one strait set, if you insist two separate strait sets. nice numbers on the hacks as well.

Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure on that one. That pic is actually older, 1 day after my contest. Wish I still looked like that. I will be bigger when I get that lean next time by a good 10-12 lbs I think.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Your progress never ceases to amaze me

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Looking really solid bro. Great work.

 

[orbitron3000]

...

Staying here increasing reps. Still I am kind of mad I pussed out 2 reps away. Will do much better next time from sheer determination.

...

That's what I like to see, kleen! ever rising determination. great w/o, man!

 

[Army Guy]

DB Curl - 60x9-3-2 =14

the DB curls look great. 9 on the first burst is great. My memory isnt all that it should be, but over the last year, isn't that a great number for you? Also, haven't had an OEP update in a while. How are you rolling with it? Got the pre-buy email from Jacob a few days back and want to take advantage of that pre-sale, but wanted your input before the cash begins to flow. :veryhappy:

 

[thundergod]

The Kleen machine is still rolling strong!!
Taking names and kicking asses up in da hizzy!!:buttkick:

 

[MrKleen73]

Your progress never ceases to amaze me

Looking really solid bro. Great work.

That's what I like to see, kleen! ever rising determination. great w/o, man!

Why Thank you Sirs!

the DB curls look great. 9 on the first burst is great. My memory isnt all that it should be, but over the last year, isn't that a great number for you? Also, haven't had an OEP update in a while. How are you rolling with it? Got the pre-buy email from Jacob a few days back and want to take advantage of that pre-sale, but wanted your input before the cash begins to flow. :veryhappy:

Man sorry, the OEP is the sh*t, it is my favorite stim to date. I am not eating to lose fat but gain mass so I can't speak to fat loss but I have to remind myself to eat during the day at work. It has a very positive feel to it, mood elevating actually. Yeah you know it is actually a damn good number for me on the db curls.

The Kleen machine is still rolling strong!!
Taking names and kicking asses up in da hizzy!!:buttkick:

Doing my best, lets see what the next few weeks bring as doses increase. Will be going to 8/11 on the PRIME then. I got a feeling that log book ain't gonna have anything on me next week!

 

[DreamWeaver]

The Kleen machine is still rolling strong!!
Taking names and kicking asses up in da hizzy!!:buttkick:

Ok .. what's the fuggin hizzy... :stooges:

 

[Irish Cannon]

Okay, question on OEP...

When I take certain stims about ~1.5-2hrs after a meal, my mood is elevated, I'm flying high, and my confidence is boosted. As soon as 2.5-3hrs hits, and I grab another meal, the level of confidence drops, mood returns to normal, and I'm no longer as energetic as I was...Do you notice OEP leads to the same outcome?

E-911 and X-Force are the two stims that I've used that seem to hold on for a good bit of time even after a meal, so I'm just trying to figure out if I can possibly add OEP to that list. I'd like to try a few samples of it.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Okay, question on OEP...

When I take certain stims about ~1.5-2hrs after a meal, my mood is elevated, I'm flying high, and my confidence is boosted. As soon as 2.5-3hrs hits, and I grab another meal, the level of confidence drops, mood returns to normal, and I'm no longer as energetic as I was...Do you notice OEP leads to the same outcome?

E-911 and X-Force are the two stims that I've used that seem to hold on for a good bit of time even after a meal, so I'm just trying to figure out if I can possibly add OEP to that list. I'd like to try a few samples of it.

My experience with OEP thus far eating doesnt change the effects. Usually my best results come from 2 pills upon waking and im good for the rest of the day. I recently added 2 RC around 5-6 hours after the 2 OEP and i feel this extends that effect till i go to bed.

Today i tried 1 OEP and 1 RC and im liking the energy thus far.

But now mind you my energy on OEP isnt this jittery or makes me hyper active in anyway. I feel alert....sharp as a tack....motivated to get things done....but i dont feel like i just pounded a zero carb rockstar before going clubbing(energy drinks are my alcohol haha).

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Yo kleem on 11 Prime...make sure not to break any machines in the gym....they are expensive

 

[Irish Cannon]

11 PRIME...noice. - I'm on 10, but only for another couple weeks. Hope to be using Natatropin soon; I'll make a comparison when I can.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Natatropin? or Natadrol?

 

[MrKleen73]

Okay, question on OEP...

When I take certain stims about ~1.5-2hrs after a meal, my mood is elevated, I'm flying high, and my confidence is boosted. As soon as 2.5-3hrs hits, and I grab another meal, the level of confidence drops, mood returns to normal, and I'm no longer as energetic as I was...Do you notice OEP leads to the same outcome?

E-911 and X-Force are the two stims that I've used that seem to hold on for a good bit of time even after a meal, so I'm just trying to figure out if I can possibly add OEP to that list. I'd like to try a few samples of it.

My experience with OEP thus far eating doesnt change the effects. Usually my best results come from 2 pills upon waking and im good for the rest of the day. I recently added 2 RC around 5-6 hours after the 2 OEP and i feel this extends that effect till i go to bed.

Today i tried 1 OEP and 1 RC and im liking the energy thus far.

But now mind you my energy on OEP isnt this jittery or makes me hyper active in anyway. I feel alert....sharp as a tack....motivated to get things done....but i dont feel like i just pounded a zero carb rockstar before going clubbing(energy drinks are my alcohol haha).

I would have to say I agree with GH on this one. I do not see any lowering effect when food is added to the stomach. There is no distinct time I notice coming down either. I just SMOOTHLY transition from having tons of energy, to regular about 4-6 hours after dosing. I have begun taking one upon waking and one about an hour later, then one at about 12-1:00. I have no problems eating. NEVER a jitter, always mood elevating.

Yo kleem on 11 Prime...make sure not to break any machines in the gym....they are expensive

Well I signed a contract that they were in charge of maintaining the equipment. If it ain't ready for ol' beast mode, that is somebody elses issue. LOL

11 PRIME...noice. - I'm on 10, but only for another couple weeks. Hope to be using Natatropin soon; I'll make a comparison when I can.

Cool, I am curious about that one. Are you at 10 a day every day?