Do supplements really work?

[Darkridder]

Ok I'm fairly new to taking supplements ect but I have been think lately.

So I read all about these supplements that add muscle make you stronger ect and there are a billion on the market.

my question is this.

If supplements really worked like they are supposed to wouldnt there only need to be one on the market, or wouldnt one have a monopoly of the market cause it was hands down the best?

but you say " Everyones body is different and not all react the same. "

and I say, well if everyones body was different wouldnt all drugs effect people differently like tylonol, beer, even steriods. Everyones body reacts the same to it. so why not Supplements?

I'm not trying to say that proteins dont work, but I dont know about supplements.

 

[suncloud]

everyone does not respond the same to beer. think of people allergic to yeast

supplements are just that - to give you an edge on your training. 90% of your results come from diet and training - there's no magic pill that changes that.

 

[Outside Backer]

not really, billion dollar industry yet nothing works

 

[russy_russ]

Most are a complete waste of money.

 

[Zero V]

not really, billion dollar industry yet nothing works

Most are a complete waste of money.

everyone does not respond the same to beer. think of people allergic to yeast

supplements are just that - to give you an edge on your training. 90% of your results come from diet and training - there's no magic pill that changes that.

No simple answer here bro.

BTW lol @ backer

Some people will say a supplement gave them crazy gains,others will say that didnt get a think from it.

Take creatine. Industry wide it is accepted as one of the best to use. Some people are non-responders and it wont help them.

They will only help you so much and boost you so much. But they do work. The difference to some of the vascularity I have had before on certain supplements, and not on is crazy. People thought there was a problem with me. Effects on my libido have been properly noted on a few of these supps ^.^

And definite increases and new PRs have been reached for me with certain ones. Some of them wont do anything for you, then there are magic ones which work great fr you.

There is no magic pill.....yet(some of the crap scientists are working on is downright scary)

Its more of like our body is a G36 assault rifle. Supplements are the different times of ammo you can fire, and also modifications you can mount on the rails. Regardless none of that does a damn thing if the gun isnt in perfect working order.

Just take a slim X and tell me if supps work....kept my buddy awake for two days, but I am too much of a junkie for that effect.

 

[lennoxchi]

stick to the basics. creatine, multi, arginine, whey and or casin, H2O, food.

 

[Robb1212]

Some people get real rowdy and out of control on beer.... Some people relax and chill out while drinking beer... your body is your body and nobody knows your body better then you... If your just starting out on supps.. I would get "protien, creatine, a good multi vitamine, and hit the wieghts hard" see where you go with these first IMO.

 

[ctAL]

Most are a complete waste of money.

yep

 

[andrew732]

Here is what I can tell you, supps work but for different purposes, some supps are no good, but there are plenty that deliver results with proper training, diet and sleep. You know it upsets me when I see people say, well I take this and that but barely lift and complain when they do not get results. Supps are only an aid, one must dedicate and sacrifice to achieve their goals.

 

[steveironman]

Unfortunately very few do what the maufacuters claim they will. Especially supplements discussed in this section of this board. In all reality I seriously doubt 90% of them will make any diff what so ever when combined with a proper diet , training program and proper rest . They also surely can not make up for any lacking in any one of those 3 areas. SO my point - all things equal ...12 weeks proper diet , training and rest compared to the same 12 weeks with most (90%) of supplements discussed in this section = your results will be identical. Its a lot of hype....also you must be wary many of these thing imo are not prudent as the physiological effects on the body truly are not healthy. As mentioned stick to the 10% that do work ...dont buy into the hype. JMO....

 

[ctAL]

diet beats anything though........but along with diet and training there are legit supplement companies out there that i believe do work for reaching your goals.

 

[Rosie Chee]

supplements are just that - to give you an edge on your training. 90% of your results come from diet and training - there's no magic pill that changes that.

^^^ What he said.

If you don't have your diet and training locked down, then taking supplements and expecting them to give you the results you want is a waste of time.

And everyone DOES react differently to different supplements. Even if you had two people who were the exact same sex, height, weight, body coposition, and fitness, who had their diet and trainng dialled in, and gave them the same supplements to use, they are not necessarily going to get the same results.

 

[islandmagic]

^^^ What he said.

If you don't have your diet and training locked down, then taking supplements and expecting them to give you the results you want is a waste of time.

And everyone DOES react differently to different supplements. Even if you had two people who were the exact same sex, height, weight, body coposition, and fitness, who had their diet and trainng dialled in, and gave them the same supplements to use, they are not necessarily going to get the same results.

agree 100% ... Hard work and dedication to your training and diet... Allways start with a core stack.. research the supps before you take them that is key!

Core stack
muti vit
joint supps
fish oil

 

[Ubiyca]

BCAA's and L-Leucine work very well and they are a 'supplement'

Divanil works great

Maca

Creatine

ETC.. a lot of stuff works and works beautifully.

IMO multi is pointless as there are conflicting studies saying they actually reduce lifespan and such..

Beta-Alanine is great, Icariin 50%, weightgainer product like N-large 2 is helping me add weight quite easily right now, Cissus kicks ass, Slim Xtreme for the ultimate stimulant rivaling even adderall and other amphetamines, and IMO Slim Xtreme is better.. etcetc

Theres tons of great supplements.

 

[islandmagic]

BCAA's and L-Leucine work very well and they are a 'supplement'

Divanil works great

Maca

Creatine

ETC.. a lot of stuff works and works beautifully.

IMO multi is pointless as there are conflicting studies saying they actually reduce lifespan and such..

Beta-Alanine is great, Icariin 50%, weightgainer product like N-large 2 is helping me add weight quite easily right now, Cissus kicks ass, Slim Xtreme for the ultimate stimulant rivaling even adderall and other amphetamines, and IMO Slim Xtreme is better.. etcetc

Theres tons of great supplements.

Not to be crazy can you provide the the study on multi? I want to learn what you know... I have read things online but their was no real conclusion on multi if they help or not.. thank you ..

 

[poison]

According to you, there should only be one model car, one kind of tv, and all women should look the same.

 

[Ubiyca]

According to you, there should only be one model car, one kind of tv, and all women should look the same.

True.

Everyone should drive a Corvette ZR1, TV's should all be 50" Panasonic Plasma, and all girls should look like Serena Williams.

 

[Darkridder]

According to you, there should only be one model car, one kind of tv, and all women should look the same.

lol wut?

 

[poison]

You say, if supps were effective, wouldn't there only be one kind? Well, the preponderance of cars must mean they aren't effective; if they were, there'd only be one kind. Probably a freakin Civic. All TV's would be Samsung 60". All women would look like Monica Bellucci.


Why do you think there are 50 kinds of energy drinks? Because they don't work? Or because there's lots of money to be made there, and others want in on the action?

 

[poison]

True.

Everyone should drive a Corvette ZR1, TV's should all be 50" Panasonic Plasma, and all girls should look like Serena Williams.

Haha, I'm with ya on the first two, but you lost me on the second. Halle Berry, maybe, but then I prefer more woman/less Conan. I like to make it out of bed alive. :684:

 

[Darkridder]

Ok, its kinda like a hiring process...

Lets say you run a business and 5 people come to work for you, but you only need one person.

Sure they all say they can do the job, but only one can really do the job.

Wouldnt you keep the one person who could really do the job?

 

[Ubiyca]

Ok, its kinda like a hiring process...

Lets say you run a business and 5 people come to work for you, but you only need one person.

Sure they all say they can do the job, but only one can really do the job.

Wouldnt you keep the one person who could really do the job?

I'd hire the 4 mexicans that would work for 2$/hour

 

[Darkridder]

And thats why america is in this mess : )

 

[poison]

Ok, its kinda like a hiring process...

Lets say you run a business and 5 people come to work for you, but you only need one person.

Sure they all say they can do the job, but only one can really do the job.

Wouldnt you keep the one person who could really do the job?

No, it's like cars. The Honda Civic is the pinnacle of personal transportation. It's cheap to buy, cheap to operate, holds value well, lasts forever. So why do we have 500 other kinds of cars? Why do we have trucks? Why does the Kia Rio or Hummer H3 exist in the face of automotive perfection such as the Civic?

1) people buy lots of cars. 2) People desire variety. 3) People want what the Joneses have. 4) People want what the Joneses DON'T have. 5) Someone thinks they can build it better. 6) someone thinks they CAN'T build it better, but can sell it anyway. 7) Someone came up with something totally new, like the Prius/Insight or CanAm Spyder.


Supplements are the same. People have different needs, different wants, some work, some don't. It's not some deep philosophical question.

 

[matthias7]

Ok I'm a newb here but I'm going to disagree. The whole point of builders is that they were the first group to take food science seriously. I'm not a builder in the sense of looking to increase muscle mass but what struck me was how advanced and how cheap this industry was.

Creatine - no question right? Whey power - no dispute right? If you are aiming for 250g+ of protein per day, 2g+ per kilo weight, you'll need powders. What about the carbs that work alongside the powder and the GI of each carb?

Then it depends what supplement and what you want them for. To say supplements don't work .... :S

The American market has managed to pass off some potent drugs as supplements. Like there's everything at your finger tips.

1. If you are just wanting a straight increase in muscle mass then okay I take the point.
2. Are there excessive claims. NO QUESTION.

Lets take for example green tea extract EGCG which is advertized here. A 'fat burner' .... rubbish BUT green tea contains some interesting enzymes which taken together with modified amino acids or one rare herb really do 'pack a punch' - very potent.

The other thing as a builder you've go to consider is that training is boring right? Boosting your energy levels and your focus shift your ability to lift?

One thing I am curious about is the claim that by shutting down estrogen production it'll boost testosterone. Bit dodgy but if it worked....

 

[Korben]

It's not so much the estrogen production is "shut down" rather testosterone metabolism is rerouted or slowed (increasing its half life). Lots of products try to stop the transformation of testosterone to estrogen thereby increasing testosterone levels and decreasing estrogen levels... which I agree that is dodgy in my book. I mean estrogen therapy for women is very controversial at this point, so testosterone boosters/estrogen inhibitors could be good or bad (as far as health goes) no question however that increased test will increase your ferocity in the gym with some other benefits as well.

 

[suncloud]

IMO multi is pointless

IF your diet is high in fruits and vegetables. if you're not keen on fruits because of the sugars, or not keen on your greens, you need a multi.

 

[strategicmove]

According to you, there should only be one model car, one kind of tv, and all women should look the same.

I like that!

 

[matthias7]

It's not so much the estrogen production is "shut down" rather testosterone metabolism is rerouted or slowed (increasing its half life). Lots of products try to stop the transformation of testosterone to estrogen thereby increasing testosterone levels and decreasing estrogen levels... which I agree that is dodgy in my book. I mean estrogen therapy for women is very controversial at this point, so testosterone boosters/estrogen inhibitors could be good or bad (as far as health goes) no question however that increased test will increase your ferocity in the gym with some other benefits as well.

Thanks. Any idea of the chemistry involved (it'll have to be an enzyme inhibition). Does it work?

If that works then purely on that front supplements work. In this case its still bit dodgy because you don't exactly know what the estrogens in men are doing. The claim is there is no natural reduction in testosterone production.

Just to make the point again purely on the hormone front - there are a few hormones you can use particularly as a transdermal patch (e.g. HGH); just don't use if you're competition athelete. Dunno if these class as a supplement but it would if you took it in capsule form.

 

[matthias7]

Whoever said it was better to give than receive, probably had syphilis.

Jesus Christ said this as quoted by the apostle Paul. The bible says Jesus never married and pre-marital sex wouldn't have done his ministry any favours. So I on balance - no he didn't have syphilis.

 

[strategicmove]

...
IMO multi is pointless as there are conflicting studies saying they actually reduce lifespan and such....

It would be great to know who sponsored those studies about multi(vitamins) reducing the average life span. It would also be interesting to know why the FDA is looking to ban Pyridoxamine (a Vit B6 analogue) and Pyridoxial-5'-Phosphate (another Vitamin B6 analogue) and classify them as drugs, if multi(vitamins) did not work. Or why GlaxoSmithKline bought Sirtris for $720 million in cash mainly to obtain deep research knowledge on Resveratrol's activation of sirtuins and related research. Just to name a few examples. I know resveratrol is not a vitamin, but the illustration is clear.

 

[Korben]

Thanks. Any idea of the chemistry involved (it'll have to be an enzyme inhibition). Does it work?

If that works then purely on that front supplements work. In this case its still bit dodgy because you don't exactly know what the estrogens in men are doing. The claim is there is no natural reduction in testosterone production.

Just to make the point again purely on the hormone front - there are a few hormones you can use particularly as a transdermal patch (e.g. HGH); just don't use if you're competition athelete. Dunno if these class as a supplement but it would if you took it in capsule form.

Yeah it has to be a type of inhibitor in some fashion.. I may need to say some supps are also precursors to test so it will increase test. As far as working I am not sure.. The claim of no natural reduction, I would have to say if they WORK it will have to be decreased due to feedback inhibition, unless they use an inhibitor for the feedback inhibition.

 

[steveironman]

Thanks. Any idea of the chemistry involved (it'll have to be an enzyme inhibition). Does it work?

If that works then purely on that front supplements work. In this case its still bit dodgy because you don't exactly know what the estrogens in men are doing. The claim is there is no natural reduction in testosterone production.

Just to make the point again purely on the hormone front - there are a few hormones you can use particularly as a transdermal patch (e.g. HGH); just don't use if you're competition athelete. Dunno if these class as a supplement but it would if you took it in capsule form.

No it doesnt work imo ..if it did an AI like armidex would cause us to build more muscle..and it doesnt.

 

[matthias7]

Okay thanks - with all these flash ads everywhere its really hard to sort out the true stuff from the junk.

I kinda see the point that no supplements work on the basis of the shear amount of excessive marketing going on around here.

 

[matthias7]

Yeah it has to be a type of inhibitor in some fashion.. I may need to say some supps are also precursors to test so it will increase test. As far as working I am not sure.. The claim of no natural reduction, I would have to say if they WORK it will have to be decreased due to feedback inhibition, unless they use an inhibitor for the feedback inhibition.

That would seem logical. Thats the problem with taking straight testo, it could be done quite easily with a transdermal patch but you're in major trouble if you can't stop taking the patches - you'll also be skint.

If testo-boosters really did work then they'd surely be alot more adverts for them.

Controversially DHEA may work - but it'd be long term in any case. Its heck of a danger chemical though as it has a big impact on cortisol and all of things.

 

[BodyWizard]

It's really very simple.

Supplements are not drugs - they are nutrients that SUPPLEMENT the nutritional content of food.

Supplements DO NOT AND NEVER WILL work like drugs.

If that is what "supplements working" means to you, then no - supplements don't work like drugs.

If you think that means there's no purpose or benefit to your body in taking them, don't take them. If you realise / understand how crapful the basic food supply is nutritionally, and you'd like a better shot at a healthy, active life, then you'll take supplements.

ESPECIALLY a multi. They're AREN'T all created equal, but the people who tell you they're crap are trying to sell you something else, guaranteed.

 

[matthias7]

Okay lets take Picamilon. Thats a legal supplement in the US. Its manufactured by linking GABA to vitamin B3.

It'll pack a punch because GABA will pass the blood-brain barrier and B3 once inside the brain will vasodilate like crazy. Taking B3 alone - its healthy but it'll not get into the brain.

Thats what I meant by 'it depends what you want'. Glad to see the anabolic steriod post 20 posts below was kicked into touch.

 

[Motox]

the supplement industry is one of the most crooked out there, these products should work for most everyone imo.

 

[Steveoph]

Supplements DO NOT AND NEVER WILL work like drugs.

I guess it comes down to definitions, but the PDE5 inhibitory properties of Icariin have been Invalid Link Removed Viagara (Sildenafil) . So I think never was a stronger word than you intended to use :dunno: The upshot to drugs is that we know the safety and toxicology data on them.

 

[matthias7]

What I'd like to know is what is cortyceps getting up to?

Its got some immuno-suppression qualities but its widely loved.

Really it depends how you use supplements and what you are after.
1. Herbs are pretty unregulated - they can be stronger than precription drugs (in fact some are).
2. I don't think you understand what happens as soon as the FDA says "supplement". All precautions are removed and development and testing time is zero.
3. For a pharma company to get a drug passed the FDA is around 10 years.

This is really a US forum - just don't underestimate the power of supplements particularly in the US market. Its just a knowledge game.

The final thing is that the definition of daily dose was set up in WWII and the question was not what is the optimum for life but what is the MINIMUM. I agree supplements are a bit of a wild west country in terms of quality but to say they are not effective; it doesn't hold water at all.

If you go to a medic they'll have a full working knowledge of frontline drugs. In the supplement industry it tends to be the individual that has to hold the knowledge. Agreed nutrutionists are useful, but there's less professional structure in it than medicine.

 

[Zero V]

One big note to take into consideration....Is its not always that the supplement sucks, its sometimes that the person taking it sucks....very few people on here have keyed in diets. And some people I dont think know what 110% means. You dont give 110% then you dont deserve results.

When you can do those two, a supplement will work. Not all of em, but about 40% will aid you pretty good. Hell when I first started lifting, I use the muscle tech crap. Their nano vapor is a good pre-workout, just not price efficient and there are better.

So before blaming the pill for not doing its job, look in the mirror. These things are for athletes and making goals, not wannabe casual lifters or gotti boys or tools.

Now people who supplement with vitamins, and things based on helping them having optimum health/nutrition is open to everyone.

But of course the pre workout doesnt work, or the creatine isnt helping, etc,etc,etc if you go to the gym and do biceps and triceps and nothing else. Then eat a chicken so you can claim it as eating healthy, but chowed down 2 bags of chips, drank 3 pepsi's, and sleep 1 hour because you dont know how to go home and rest your too bizzy chasing girls around.

Sry....I had a guy come in my gym, blue jeans, normal shirt...hit up biceps, and shoulders for like 20 minutes, and left.....no routine or anything. Would supps help him? Hell no. Will they help the guy who is in there for an hour hitting each muscle group for that day with multiple excersizes with good sets, who is sweating his arse off? I believe they will.

So before you bash a product, think about if your a tool or not. And if you are, punch yourself in the face.

 

[Lacradocious]

Supplements are hit or miss. I disagree that they are all simply nutritional supplementation to our diets. Some do have a pharmacological type effect. The gray area steroids for example, are sold as supplements, but they are chemicals that interact with your body chemistry just like a prescription drug.

And some supplements can be obtained via a prescription. My father, for example, has a prescription of fish oil. No joke.

Despite this, most supplements aren't worth the price or simply don't work as advertised. Eating right and lifting right is what is important. And some people simply have better genetics than others and can make better quality gains faster. No supplement can overcome that.

 

[poison]

Okay thanks - with all these flash ads everywhere its really hard to sort out the true stuff from the junk.

I kinda see the point that no supplements work on the basis of the shear amount of excessive marketing going on around here.

WTF do you see on TV at night here? Ads for Viagra, Tylenol, Nasonex, etc. Do these ads mean these drugs don't work? What about the gazillion ads for cars? I guess they don't work either?

You are making a non-point, it's 100% invalid.

 

[poison]

One big note to take into consideration....Is its not always that the supplement sucks, its sometimes that the person taking it sucks....very few people on here have keyed in diets. And some people I dont think know what 110% means. You dont give 110% then you dont deserve results.

When you can do those two, a supplement will work. Not all of em, but about 40% will aid you pretty good. Hell when I first started lifting, I use the muscle tech crap. Their nano vapor is a good pre-workout, just not price efficient and there are better.

So before blaming the pill for not doing its job, look in the mirror. These things are for athletes and making goals, not wannabe casual lifters or gotti boys or tools.

Now people who supplement with vitamins, and things based on helping them having optimum health/nutrition is open to everyone.

But of course the pre workout doesnt work, or the creatine isnt helping, etc,etc,etc if you go to the gym and do biceps and triceps and nothing else. Then eat a chicken so you can claim it as eating healthy, but chowed down 2 bags of chips, drank 3 pepsi's, and sleep 1 hour because you dont know how to go home and rest your too bizzy chasing girls around.

Sry....I had a guy come in my gym, blue jeans, normal shirt...hit up biceps, and shoulders for like 20 minutes, and left.....no routine or anything. Would supps help him? Hell no. Will they help the guy who is in there for an hour hitting each muscle group for that day with multiple excersizes with good sets, who is sweating his arse off? I believe they will.

So before you bash a product, think about if your a tool or not. And if you are, punch yourself in the face.

Posterity. Amen, bro!

 

[poison]

OMG, I walked into the supermarket today, and saw 321 different kinds of cereal. None of them must work! If one did, there'd only be that kind on the shelf!


this thread is dumb.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Posterity. Amen, bro!

Seconded!

 

[matthias7]

WTF do you see on TV at night here? Ads for Viagra, Tylenol, Nasonex, etc. Do these ads mean these drugs don't work? What about the gazillion ads for cars? I guess they don't work either?

You are making a non-point, it's 100% invalid.

Yeah thats amazing as well. UK drug ads are banned.

Its not supplements work don't its the claims made about them. In the UK you couldn't do this; Trade Description Act prevents it.

Whats happening here is that if there's a suspected property to a supplement, e.g. "fat burning" its marketed as a water-tight "solution", even if there's no scientific data to back it up. I think thats the key problem why "supplements don't work" threads appear. Again you just can't do this in the UK.

So to answer your question "Do you see ads in the TV at night..." no I don't. I live in the UK and these ads are banned.

 

[poison]

Whats happening here is that if there's a suspected property to a supplement, e.g. "fat burning" its marketed as a water-tight "solution", even if there's no scientific data to back it up. I think thats the key problem why "supplements don't work" threads appear. Again you just can't do this in the UK.

Many times, you're right. Your point? I mean you can still buy cigarettes and booze, correct, and go get blasted, screw your liver, and give yourself guaranteed death by inhalation? But hey, you guys are all tight on supplements, so you're cool!

 

[matthias7]

Cig ads.... the UK banned those as well

Well beer ads have ever been and ever thus will be. It sounds like I'm living in Singapore -where they banned chewing gum and then lifted the ban for "medicinal purposes".

 

[Zero V]

Cig ads.... the UK banned those as well

Well beer ads have ever been and ever thus will be. It sounds like I'm living in Singapore -where they banned chewing gum and then lifted the ban for "medicinal purposes".

dsade is coming out with fat burning gum ^.^