Yohimbine HCI vs. Alpha-Yohimbine

WilteredFire said:
Oh, good thing you reminded me bro...I did notice it just about 10-15minutes yesterday before I had my workout and also noticing a sensation near the abs right now, 45minutes after taking another 10mg ish.

Will keep a look out and im making sure that I try take it empty stomach and on the high carb days like today I take it atleast 90 minutes after a meal so that my insulin will have started to come down. Ive got a 4gram tub here so I should have plenty lol.
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Lyle McDonald suggests that if you cant take yohimbine first thing in the morning fasted and train, then you should wait at least 3 hours after a meal.

Sounds like its working for you though, but 3 hours may be even much better.
 
I will remember taking it just after waking and currently do train fasted with 200mg Caffeine Anhydrous 3-4 days in the week 45minutes before my workout. When I have a higher carb meal I will always take the Y-hcl a good 3 hours after the meal like you said, when its high-fat and low carb I'll take it 90minutes to 2 hours after the meal...

Thanks again for the tips I shall keep you guys informed on the results :)
 
Just letting people know im adding in 2 days of some Lunges and Push ups for fat loss in place of the 10minutes of boxing followed by my abs workout. Hoping this will be a great change. Noticing my waist tighten up on day 3, If i can find time tomorrow I may take a picture and post a progress pic later after the 3 weeks are over. Not promising lol, but i'll try =)
 
WilteredFire said:
Just letting people know im adding in 2 days of some Lunges and Push ups for fat loss in place of the 10minutes of boxing followed by my abs workout. Hoping this will be a great change. Noticing my waist tighten up on day 3, If i can find time tomorrow I may take a picture and post a progress pic later after the 3 weeks are over. Not promising lol, but i'll try =)
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Keep us updated :)

Im up to 15mg pre-workout now along with 300mg caffeine and 1gr alcar. I honestly do not understand where all these rumors came from of these wicked side effects, I dont have any in any way.
 
EasyEJL said:
What do you think of going as high as 30 a day, split dosing?
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I ran into a thread where LM discussed this issue. LM suggested to start that second dose a little lower to assess tolerance but what you eventually want is 2 full doses when choosing to dose prior to split training (OP had asked due to his/her split training routine,) so yes 15mg twice a day is good if your not effected by yohimbine in a negative way. Also important to have dose spread well apart of course.

If your heavy and your using 20mg, maybe thats what you want as well.

They did use 10mg twice a day in that soccer study, I just wish there was more info on how they dosed it (fasted, pre-training, etc.)

Careful dosing at night, sleep issues possible.
 
Past day or so I actually was considering running 15mg twice a day and dropping 100% ephedrine all together.

Its all experimental of course, but that second dose would be dosed fasted (3-4 hours) but not necessarily for a second workout. Maybe I can push myself to go for brisk walks. Also considering dosing twice on off days as well. Undecided just thinking about it.

Ill have to order another 5-6 bottles, I still have 3+.

I dropped 1,3 dim for the first time since last year for this yohimbine experiment (I only use it pre-workout), so far Ive learned that I believe 1,3 dim wasnt working well with me anymore...although Ive had a slight decrease of energy its not that much, or perhaps the stim effect of the added yohimbine and 1gr alcar I also added is helping.

1 last note, Ive been running dietary experiments for the first time in years so everything may be a bit hard for me to judge at the moment.
 
EasyEJL said:
I Think tomorrow I'll do the normal 20 in the morning and then 10 prebed, each with 1g of tta from sns.
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LM does state that taking pre-bed would be the least effective time to take yohimbine. Something to do with the metabolism being the lowest at that time.

Doesnt me dont go ahead of experiment of course.
 
This may be of use to you guys, but another post of mine from about a year ago:

Right Hook said:
Okay here is the first reference in regards to how to administer Yohimbine effectively:

Med Hypotheses. 2002 Jun;58(6):491-5.
Pre-exercise administration of yohimbine may enhance the efficacy of exercise training as a fat loss strategy by boosting lipolysis.

McCarty MF.
Pantox Laboratories, California 92109, USA.
The natural alpha-2 antagonist yohimbine promotes sympathetic activity by central as well as peripheral mechanisms, and yet in moderate doses dose not usually raise heart rate, increase blood pressure, or induce anxiety (in contrast to sympathomimetic drugs such as ephedrine). Administered prior to exercise, it boosts lipolysis and serum FFA levels both during and following exercise; blockade of adipocyte alpha-2 adrenoreceptors makes at least a modest contribution to this pro-lipolytic activity. These considerations suggest that pre-exercise administration of yohimbine will lower the respiratory quotient during and following exercise, thus promoting fat loss. Since yohimbine can potentiate postprandial insulin secretion, its bariatric benefits should be greatest if administered on a schedule that minimizes postprandial yohimbine activity. A possible synergism of yohimbine and caffeine should be explored. Pre-exercise yohimbine administration has the potential to down-regulate the lipoprotein lipase activity of visceral adipocytes, increase lipolysis in refractory gynoid fat depots, and improve the impaired lipolytic response to exercise in the elderly.

PMID: 12323115 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Since that really didnt tell us a whole lot from the abstract I read the full write up and found this piece which is more useful:

Since pharmaceutically significant plasma levels of yohimbine
(or its active metabolites) are sustained for 3±4
hours following an oral bolus dose (12), it would appear
advisable to administer yohimbine on a schedule such
that food is not ingested for at least 4 hours after each
dose. Thus, if yohimbine were administered prior to
morning exercise, it would be desirable to avoid food
ingestion for several hours after the exercise ± in other
words, to skip or at least substantially postpone breakfast.
This approach would be most favorable for achieving fat
oxidation, and may be feasible for the many people who
experience an absence of hunger for hours following
significant morning exercise with HT.
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There are some concerns that you can get a tolerance after a while which is true to some degree:

In a study involving chronic administration of this
drug (12mg daily for 14 days), Berlan and colleagues
noted that the acute lipolytic response to yohimbine was
blunted but not abolished after chronic use (23).
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So that tells us that it's optimal to use Yohimbine in a fast state prior to cardio. Plasma levels tend to peak around the 2 hour. So I'd say dosing the Y about 1.5 pre-fasted cardio would be optimal.

I suppose you could eat right after but if you want optimal fat oxidation to occur then waiting 4-6 hours to eat after dosing is the best way to go about it. It makes me think that fat loss would be extremley good if you utilized the intermittent fasting diet PLUS fasted cardio (the leangains approach to IF'ing that is...).

U of Memphis actually did a study with VPX Meltdown (primary ingredients = yohimbine, caffeine, synephrine) that showed increased fat oxidation. It's hard to say with the added ingredients in meltdown but the study and measurements were also taken after an overnight fast. So I definitely dont think Yohimbine is worth taking if you have food in your stomach.
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Out of interest, how much of a decrease in lipolysis was there at the 14 day mark, did it say?
 
Royd The Noyd said:
That's a good question since lipolysis is not the rate limiting step in fat loss. May not be enough to matter. I'll look later. On the road atm.
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Hmmm I tried two large university databases to get this full text with no luck. I could ask for interloan library but I bug them quite often so I'd rather not. Maybe someone else here can access it. This is the reference:

Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1990;39(5):447-51.

Pharmacodynamic effects of chronic yohimbine treatment in healthy volunteers.

Galitzky J, Rivière D, Tran MA, Montastruc JL, Berlan M.


Source

Laboratoire de Pharmacologie Médicale et Clinique, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire, Faculté de Médecine, Toulouse, France.


Abstract

The effects of 14 days of treatment with the alpha 2-adrenoceptor antagonist yohimbine on cardiovascular parameters (blood pressure and heart rate), plasma catecholamines, insulin and non-esterified fatty acids (NEFA), and the number of alpha 2-adrenoceptors on platelets have been evaluated. The treatment increased plasma noradrenaline but not adrenaline and did not change the other cardiovascular, metabolic or routine blood parameters. It caused a decrease in the velocity of adrenaline-induced platelet aggregation, although [3H]-yohimbine binding to platelets remained unchanged. Acute administration of yohimbine before the experiment led to a significant increase in plasma noradrenaline and NEFA levels. After the 15 day treatment, acute administration of the same dose of yohimbine had less effect on plasma NEFA and there was no significant change in plasma noradrenaline. The acute lipid-mobilizing effect of yohimbine in healthy volunteers persisted after the 14 days of treatment with no change in other parameters. The prolonged alpha 2-adrenoceptor blockade with yohimbine did not induce any change in platelet alpha 2-adrenoceptors.


PMID: 1963844 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Let me just say that this is an awesome thread, but I am just going to post a few questions for ax1 or anyone who can to answer because there is way to much going on for me and I have never been able to get clear answers. I really want to try it for something different along with my ECA cut where I will do fasted cardio. I want to optimize fat loss and muscle preservation.

1. If taking yohimbine 20 mins before fasted cardio, you should not include ephedrine, but take it later instead, correct? This would be optimal for fat burning?

2. If you take yohimbine 20-30 mins before fasted cardio but drink BCAAs during cardio, will that negatively effect the impact of the yohimbine?

Very sorry if this has been answered before, I suspect it has in this very thread I just cant find it or understand it. Think I had more but thats all I could remember.
 
EArch said:
1. If taking yohimbine 20 mins before fasted cardio, you should not include ephedrine, but take it later instead, correct? This would be optimal for fat burning?

2. If you take yohimbine 20-30 mins before fasted cardio but drink BCAAs during cardio, will that negatively effect the impact of the yohimbine?

Very sorry if this has been answered before, I suspect it has in this very thread I just cant find it or understand it. Think I had more but thats all I could remember.
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1. Do not take ephedrine with yohimbine. Not only is it bad for your health but the ephedrine inhibits the type of lypolisis your seeking w/ yohimbine. Consume 30-60 minutes prior to cardio, 20 minutes is a little too soon.

2. This is slightly controversial at the moment, but Lyle McDonald stresses fastest means fasted. Anything that can slightly increase insulin will start to reduce the effectiveness of yohimbine. Its up to you to decide this one.
 
ok great for the response man! I suspected that for number 2. I will just pound BCAAs after cardio or eat, or both as soon as I am done.

So just to clear this up, you feel fasted cardio with yohimbine would burn more fat/be more effective than fasted cardio with ephedrine for our goals as bodybuilders?
 
EArch said:
So just to clear this up, you feel fasted cardio with yohimbine would burn more fat/be more effective than fasted cardio with ephedrine for our goals as bodybuilders?
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I believe so yes, as far as what Ive read. This is especially in regards to slimmer people, it hits stubborn bodyfat. If your over 14% or so in my own opinion Id stick to EC. If anyone else understands this differently please comment.
 
ax1 said:
1. Do not take ephedrine with yohimbine. Not only is it bad for your health but the ephedrine inhibits the type of lypolisis your seeking w/ yohimbine. Consume 30-60 minutes prior to cardio, 20 minutes is a little too soon.

2. This is slightly controversial at the moment, but Lyle McDonald stresses fastest means fasted. Anything that can slightly increase insulin will start to reduce the effectiveness of yohimbine. Its up to you to decide this one.
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E + Y maybe is ok on obese people or not?
 
MAxximal said:
i used lipo 6 with E and no issues to report man.
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Lipo 6 probably had a small amount of yohimbine in it. I dont believe there are any fat burners with any significant amount of yohimbine hcl in it.

Obese individual may need 20mg+ of hcl.

Also, if you didnt take the Lipo 6 fasted, the yohimbine's effects may be severely blunted on top of the amount being under-dosed.
 
ax1 said:
Lipo 6 probably had a small amount of yohimbine in it. I dont believe there are any fat burners with any significant amount of yohimbine hcl in it.

Obese individual may need 20mg+ of hcl.

Also, if you didnt take the Lipo 6 fasted, the yohimbine's effects may be severely blunted on top of the amount being under-dosed.
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i use it for the energy up and the appetite suppression of synephrine and ephedrine ;) and works perfect IMO
 
MAxximal said:
i use it for the energy up and the appetite suppression of synephrine and ephedrine ;) and works perfect IMO
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They actually prescribe ephedrine over in Norway or one of those countries to many obese people. There were some 9 million prescriptions written out and less than 100 people had any adverse side effects. Get this....many of the adverse side effects documented of those 100 people were lowered blood pressure!!
 
ax1 said:
They actually prescribe ephedrine over in Norway or one of those countries to many obese people. There were some 9 million prescriptions written out and less than 100 people had any adverse side effects. Get this....many of the adverse side effects documented of those 100 people were lowered blood pressure!!
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i got few pills of Rauwolfia Serpentina old RPN AlphaBurn this stuff make impossible to breath (sinus symtoms) but regular Y not?


did you has used ECaY?
 
MAxximal said:
i got few pills of Rauwolfia Serpentina old RPN AlphaBurn this stuff make impossible to breath (sinus symtoms) but regular Y not?


did you has used ECaY?
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Yes I have. Ive never had issues with Alpha-burn standalone and Ive never had issues stacked with EC.

I wonder if you would respond better to Alpha-Yohimbine HCL. Im speculating, but perhaps its cleaner the same way yohimbine hcl is cleaner than yohimbine bark.
 
ax1 said:
Yes I have. Ive never had issues with Alpha-burn standalone and Ive never had issues stacked with EC.

I wonder if you would respond better to Alpha-Yohimbine HCL. Im speculating, but perhaps its cleaner the same way yohimbine hcl is cleaner than yohimbine bark.
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you have a point with this but when i used OEP (Rauvolfia Canescens L. [Leaf and Root]) i not have this issues and this explain too when i use ALPHA-T2 i not have any issues and i used with EC so you are correct.

Hmmmmmmm
 
Pretty sure the oldschool levithian had 9 mg yhcl per dose, and at the suggested 2 dose a day, 18 mg yhcl each day. Actually really liked that product
 
onemind1body said:
Pretty sure the oldschool levithian had 9 mg yhcl per dose, and at the suggested 2 dose a day, 18 mg yhcl each day. Actually really liked that product
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The soccer study did show effectiveness at 10mg twice a day, but the optimal suggested dose is usually .2mg per kg of body-weight in a single dose, pre-workout and fasted.
 
Ax - I think the soccer study might have actually been 20mg twice a day... I just re-read it and the wording confuses me a little bit.
 
dvp said:
Ax - I think the soccer study might have actually been 20mg twice a day... I just re-read it and the wording confuses me a little bit.
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Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days.

Sounds like 10mg equal doses, totaling 20mg per day to me. Anybody else see it as dvp see's it?
 
I mean I think you're probably right... 40mgs of yohimbine would be a lot for skinny soccer players to ingest in a day lol
 
dvp said:
I mean I think you're probably right... 40mgs of yohimbine would be a lot for skinny soccer players to ingest in a day lol
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Some people who are a bit heavier and train twice a day may consume that much actually.
 
I take 25mgs of Yohimbine HCL each morning about 1.5 hours before workout. Then I do the workout fasted.

It wakes me up ... very smoooth alertness, not jittery ... just really focused.
 
HondaV65 said:
I take 25mgs of Yohimbine HCL each morning about 1.5 hours before workout. Then I do the workout fasted.

It wakes me up ... very smoooth alertness, not jittery ... just really focused.
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May I ask why you decided to go with a full 1.5 hours pre-workout instead of the more traditional 30-60 minutes?
 
ax1 said:
May I ask why you decided to go with a full 1.5 hours pre-workout instead of the more traditional 30-60 minutes?
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To ensure I don't hit the gym with any nausea caused from the Yohimbine. I actually though, take it at 4am ... I leave the house for the gym at 5 and I'm in the gym working by 5:15.

I like the stuff though - and I use it when I'm bulking. I don't know about fat loss - but the stuff wakes me up and gets me focused. It also has the benefit of not giving me "stim dick" ... it actually does quite the opposite.

When I go on cut ... then I break Ephedrine HCL and just deal with the "stim dick". LOL
 
HondaV65 said:
To ensure I don't hit the gym with any nausea caused from the Yohimbine. I actually though, take it at 4am ... I leave the house for the gym at 5 and I'm in the gym working by 5:15.

I like the stuff though - and I use it when I'm bulking. I don't know about fat loss - but the stuff wakes me up and gets me focused. It also has the benefit of not giving me "stim dick" ... it actually does quite the opposite.

When I go on cut ... then I break Ephedrine HCL and just deal with the "stim dick". LOL
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Very interesting, so our primary purpose of dosing Yohimbine is for training quality, and a nice hefty 25mg dose.

Do you take anything else with it for training such as caffeine, coffee, etc??
 
Just a quick update right now...Leaner since last week and dropping bodyfat noticably every 2 days or so...Im also starting to take a 200mg Caffeine Anhydrous on my non-workout days in the week, so basically monday to friday i'll pop one 200mg CA pill along with my y-hcl and on the weekends just carry on with my 20mg's of Y-hcl in split doses as usual.

Workout days just to clarify for me are Mon-Wed-Fri...and on my non-workout days like Tuesday and Thursday im taking my 200mg CA + 10mg of Yohimbine in a fasted state because of my IF diet/protocol...

I will be posting a before and after picture now, in the coming 2-3 weeks to show what kinda results im getting with my diet. Im happy with my progress so far but I'll need to allow 5 days or so after I stop my Y-hcl so allow any extracellular fluid leave the body If im correct? Anyway My next update with my results will be with a before/after pic. Thanks guys :)
 
WilteredFire said:
t I'll need to allow 5 days or so after I stop my Y-hcl so allow any extracellular fluid leave the body If im correct? Anyway My next update with my results will be with a before/after pic. Thanks guys :)
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I believe you need at least 3 days or so for the water to go away.

Looking forward to the progress pics, so far this has been a good experience for you.
 
WilteredFire said:
Just a quick update right now...Leaner since last week and dropping bodyfat noticably every 2 days or so...Im also starting to take a 200mg Caffeine Anhydrous on my non-workout days in the week, so basically monday to friday i'll pop one 200mg CA pill along with my y-hcl and on the weekends just carry on with my 20mg's of Y-hcl in split doses as usual.

Workout days just to clarify for me are Mon-Wed-Fri...and on my non-workout days like Tuesday and Thursday im taking my 200mg CA + 10mg of Yohimbine in a fasted state because of my IF diet/protocol...

I will be posting a before and after picture now, in the coming 2-3 weeks to show what kinda results im getting with my diet. Im happy with my progress so far but I'll need to allow 5 days or so after I stop my Y-hcl so allow any extracellular fluid leave the body If im correct? Anyway My next update with my results will be with a before/after pic. Thanks guys :)
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Hows it going, any updates?
 
Yep, My bodyfat appears to be down but for some reason its taking more time, The past week and a half ive had a big family wedding going on so Ive not had further progress, but ive finished my 3 week Yohimbine cycle successfully...So the past week that ive been off it ive let my body get back to normal. Im on day 3 of my next 21 day Y-hcl cycle now, so hopefully in about 2-3 weeks I'll most definately post up a picture of my waist area.

I'll report back properly with pictures next :)
 
In Australia the equivalent To the ECA legally would be:
Alphaburn Alpha y
Caffiene 200mg tabs by sns
Aspirin What dosage is suitable?

Any thoughts?
 
runner_79 said:
In Australia the equivalent To the ECA legally would be:
Alphaburn Alpha y
Caffiene 200mg tabs by sns
Aspirin What dosage is suitable?

Any thoughts?
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Well, its a nice stack but I wouldnt be calling it equivalent, rather an inferior yet effective substitute.

Drop the aspirin, there is really no point.
 
thanks man...

ephedrine i cant access so i thought alphaburn could do the job for my mate......he could put it with some R-ketones and TTA+caffiene.
He has BP issues
 
runner_79 said:
thanks man...

ephedrine i cant access so i thought alphaburn could do the job for my mate......he could put it with some R-ketones and TTA+caffiene.
He has BP issues
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Id be sure you dose the Alpha-Y fasted, 30 minutes prior to a meal.
 
Quick update on whats been happening...

At the moment, I wont waste time uploading a before/after pic simply because the results aren't substantial enough yet...Ive now finished the 2nd cycle of the 3 weeks of Y-hcl, and haven't lost as much as I expected, but as of the last 2 weeks ive added in compound lifts into my training and I feel thats helping to speed up my fat loss...

Compound Lifts, Sensible Dieting combined with my daily fasting SHOULD be able to help me lose fat faster then my current pace, which has really got me thinking that my results are coming along alot slower simply due to the overall health of my blood. As of the last 5 days Ive started an overall Body Detox and will be adding in more things into my body to flush out as many toxins as I can as I've come to believe this is key to increased fat loss. I wont spend time discussing what ive come across, but simply detoxing the body In my opinion is what is the "missing key" for my fat loss journey. I will most definately try and post up some before/after pictures in in the coming month or 2 when I feel ive made better progress. Hopefully if all my theory is correct, the y-hcl will be able to give me superior fat loss results once Ive purified my blood and enhanced its overall circulation.

At the end of the day All the nutrients, hormones, amino acids, oxygen, minerals etc are only as good as the health and circulation of your blood I reckon.

I'll post up any interesting results soon in this thread when I get time :) Cheers guys.
 
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