What's Worked - Non-hormonal Anabolics

[00A]

Never had those issues with ARA. And I am currently running it.

But I do not stop taking my stuff like curcumin, hyaluronic acid, acetyl cysteine, etc. (dosed apart).

I like switching around natural muscle builders. My personal favorite is certainly Turkesterone/ecdysterone, recovery and strength is great on it. And you are practically never sore.

Which Turkesterone u take?

 

[mbonheur]

Which Turkesterone u take?

Boldanic and Tonvara

 

[kev4me]

You guys have zero clue about how inflammation works, and the difference between how it is caused, the type and why it exists.

ok... in my understanding - when tissue or cells in the tissure are inflammed - there are several mechanisms where the body tries to compensate for that inflammation..
can you say me where increased inflammation (inf. markers) from O-6 fatty acids differs from inflammation caused by chronic disease as example? (other than its chronic and has specific reasons)

not wanna be rude here.. just want to have a science based conversation - and i will research everything you will say , as good as i can.

thanks

 

[GreenMachineX]

But one thing is obvious.
I have used ARA so many times, many cycles, some alone, others paired with Anabeta elite (excellent couple), but every time I got a cold, or a sore throat, I was getting worse, I was slow to feel good, let's say that it prolongs the symptoms of diseases ...
This was obvious about me, the sore throat during ARA never passed me ...

Same here with the ArA induced sore throat, and it felt like the flu all over every time I tried it.

 

[bigsmall]

You guys have zero clue about how inflammation works, and the difference between how it is caused, the type and why it exists.

brundel - when brundel says 'I suggest avoiding inflammation at all costs as its a direct cause of multiple potentially life threatening disease states', I believe it. Jiigzz, I think your the one that has zero clue and all you are concerned about is making SNS money.

 

[jameschoi]

brundel - when brundel says 'I suggest avoiding inflammation at all costs as its a direct cause of multiple potentially life threatening disease states', I believe it. Jiigzz, I think your the one that has zero clue and all you are concerned about is making SNS money.

I have a 4 day supply of ARA left, throw it out or use it?

 

[dbuckley82]

Any time I've ever used ARA, I've ditched it less than a month in. Simply put, my body doesn't like it. I know you can say some people feel the joint inflammation sides more, or 'theres a difference between acute and systemic inflammation', but I could give a **** about all that. My gut and my body tells me this is bad for me... In the garbage they go. To each his own tho.

That being said I have a full sealed bottle of x-gels, trades welcome. PM me.

 

[Jiigzz]

brundel - when brundel says 'I suggest avoiding inflammation at all costs as its a direct cause of multiple potentially life threatening disease states', I believe it. Jiigzz, I think your the one that has zero clue and all you are concerned about is making SNS money.

You can attack me for my rep status, which is fine, but that doesn't actually mean you know what you are talking about, nor does it enhance your argument. Here's the truth bigsmall, you don't care about finding the truth, you only care about what you want to believe, even if it is in stark contrast to the evidence. You will dismiss the following simply because it doesn't fit what you think or you'll dismiss it because you don't understand the differences between supplementation of something, and that same thing being released under completely different conditions. So i say it again, if you don't care enough to find the truth, then at least care enough to stop trying to scare people with lies and untruths..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9507233
AA supplementation caused significant increases in the in vitro secretion of LTB4, and PGE2, but it did not alter the in vitro secretion of tumor necrosis factor alpha; interleukins 1 beta, 2, 6;

Hmm funny that. AA supplementation increased the same eiconsaoids as training does, but did not alter the secretion of the markers of inflammation we avoid.

Surely thats a fluke. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217562/

[On IL-6] In fact, one of the initial theories related to the potential ergogenic value of AA for athletes was that dietary supplementation of AA during training would promote greater localized inflammation thereby stimulating subsequent intramuscular protein synthesis during resting/repair phases between workouts. Nonetheless, present findings do not support this hypothesis. Rather, results suggest that AA supplementation during training may reduce chronic levels of IL-6 thereby reducing associated inflammation that may occur during high volume training. Theoretically, this may allow athletes to tolerate high levels of training to a better degree.

And also:

Beyond these potential limitations, our results suggest that prolonged AA supplementation may increase cycling anaerobic capacity while reducing circulating IL-6 levels in resistance-trained males. Moreover, that 1.0 g·day-1 of AA administration over a 50 days period significantly increased dietary AA intake and appears to be well-tolerated and exerts no adverse side effects in young, resistance-trained males.

So no, i'd go ahead and say that you have no idea the differences between supplementation of AA vs. its release during diseased states and the effect on the release of eiconsaoids.

Maybe you should just skip working out, after-all it increase the exact same markers.

 

[bb333]

Same here with the ArA induced sore throat, and it felt like the flu all over every time I tried it.

Exactly, I had that feeling of influence.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

brundel - when brundel says 'I suggest avoiding inflammation at all costs as its a direct cause of multiple potentially life threatening disease states', I believe it. Jiigzz, I think your the one that has zero clue and all you are concerned about is making SNS money.

You better stop working out then if you want to avoid Inflammation. Maybe even just don't get out of bed and move around. Why you are at it, you better not consume protein cause it increases IGF-1 which you know is a major issue with causing tumor growth, division etc right?

 

[bigsmall]

You better stop working out then if you want to avoid Inflammation. Maybe even just don't get out of bed and move around. Why you are at it, you better not consume protein cause it increases IGF-1 which you know is a major issue with causing tumor growth, division etc right?

Unnecessary inflammation. The comment was in relation to ARA and not anything else.

 

[bigsmall]

You can attack me for my rep status, which is fine, but that doesn't actually mean you know what you are talking about, nor does it enhance your argument. Here's the truth bigsmall, you don't care about finding the truth, you only care about what you want to believe, even if it is in stark contrast to the evidence. You will dismiss the following simply because it doesn't fit what you think or you'll dismiss it because you don't understand the differences between supplementation of something, and that same thing being released under completely different conditions. So i say it again, if you don't care enough to find the truth, then at least care enough to stop trying to scare people with lies and untruths..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9507233
AA supplementation caused significant increases in the in vitro secretion of LTB4, and PGE2, but it did not alter the in vitro secretion of tumor necrosis factor alpha; interleukins 1 beta, 2, 6;

Hmm funny that. AA supplementation increased the same eiconsaoids as training does, but did not alter the secretion of the markers of inflammation we avoid.

Surely thats a fluke. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2217562/

[On IL-6] In fact, one of the initial theories related to the potential ergogenic value of AA for athletes was that dietary supplementation of AA during training would promote greater localized inflammation thereby stimulating subsequent intramuscular protein synthesis during resting/repair phases between workouts. Nonetheless, present findings do not support this hypothesis. Rather, results suggest that AA supplementation during training may reduce chronic levels of IL-6 thereby reducing associated inflammation that may occur during high volume training. Theoretically, this may allow athletes to tolerate high levels of training to a better degree.

And also:

Beyond these potential limitations, our results suggest that prolonged AA supplementation may increase cycling anaerobic capacity while reducing circulating IL-6 levels in resistance-trained males. Moreover, that 1.0 g·day-1 of AA administration over a 50 days period significantly increased dietary AA intake and appears to be well-tolerated and exerts no adverse side effects in young, resistance-trained males.

So no, i'd go ahead and say that you have no idea the differences between supplementation of AA vs. its release during diseased states and the effect on the release of eiconsaoids.

Maybe you should just skip working out, after-all it increase the exact same markers.

I believe brundel. And I believe the long term effects it has had on me. Thanks for your input.

 

[Garyboy]

I believe brundel. And I believe the long term effects it has had on me. Thanks for your input.

In Brundel you trust!

 

[Jiigzz]

I believe brundel. And I believe the long term effects it has had on me. Thanks for your input.

And that's cool. But I'd appreciate if you'd leave untruths behind, that's all

 

[kev4me]

You can attack me for my rep status, which is fine, but that doesn't actually mean you know what you are talking about, nor does it enhance your argument. Here's the truth bigsmall, you don't care about finding the truth, you only care about what you want to believe, even if it is in stark contrast to the evidence. You will dismiss the following simply because it doesn't fit what you think or you'll dismiss it because you don't understand the differences between supplementation of something, and that same thing being released under completely different conditions. So i say it again, if you don't care enough to find the truth, then at least care enough to stop trying to scare people with lies and untruths..


AA supplementation caused significant increases in the in vitro secretion of LTB4, and PGE2, but it did not alter the in vitro secretion of tumor necrosis factor alpha; interleukins 1 beta, 2, 6;

Hmm funny that. AA supplementation increased the same eiconsaoids as training does, but did not alter the secretion of the markers of inflammation we avoid.

Surely thats a fluke.

[On IL-6] In fact, one of the initial theories related to the potential ergogenic value of AA for athletes was that dietary supplementation of AA during training would promote greater localized inflammation thereby stimulating subsequent intramuscular protein synthesis during resting/repair phases between workouts. Nonetheless, present findings do not support this hypothesis. Rather, results suggest that AA supplementation during training may reduce chronic levels of IL-6 thereby reducing associated inflammation that may occur during high volume training. Theoretically, this may allow athletes to tolerate high levels of training to a better degree.

And also:

Beyond these potential limitations, our results suggest that prolonged AA supplementation may increase cycling anaerobic capacity while reducing circulating IL-6 levels in resistance-trained males. Moreover, that 1.0 g·day-1 of AA administration over a 50 days period significantly increased dietary AA intake and appears to be well-tolerated and exerts no adverse side effects in young, resistance-trained males.

So no, i'd go ahead and say that you have no idea the differences between supplementation of AA vs. its release during diseased states and the effect on the release of eiconsaoids.

Maybe you should just skip working out, after-all it increase the exact same markers.

thanks for the scientific input - i have some questions:

its right that ltb4 and pge2 are also rising when we exercise but i think its not good to supplement something that rises espacially pge2
"AA supplementation caused significant increases in the in vitro secretion of LTB4, and PGE2"...

as you can read here (pubmed: "prostaglandins and inflammation" - fking 100post ****)
"In inflammation, PGE2 is of particular interest because it is involved in all processes leading to the classic signs of inflammation: redness, swelling and pain (37). Redness and edema result from increased blood flow into the inflamed tissue through PGE2-mediated augmentation of arterial dilatation and increased microvascular permeability (37). Pain results from the action of PGE2 on peripheral sensory neurons and on central sites within the spinal cord and the brain ..."

pge2 is a major prostanglandin in inflammatory processes in the body - for my understanding...
so to say that we only want to avoid markers like il-6, is not right - i would say...

"PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group..."

Pge 2 thats produced in the state of diseases is also linked with increased il-6 on the other hand..
"PGE2 produced by rheumatoid synovium has been implicated in IL-6 production and joint destruction...."

maybe you can correct me or point something out that ive got wrong... no wanna be a smartass - just want to learn...

 

[thebigt]

brundel - when brundel says 'I suggest avoiding inflammation at all costs as its a direct cause of multiple potentially life threatening disease states', I believe it. Jiigzz, I think your the one that has zero clue and all you are concerned about is making SNS money.

hey man, I don't agree with Jiigzz on politics and we have argued in the past in another thread...but jiigzz is one of the most well intentioned, helpful, honest guys I have known on this forum. his reputation is beyond repute, imo!!!

oh yeah, I wish I were even half as knowledgeable as jiigzz!!!

 

[Jiigzz]

thanks for the scientific input - i have some questions:

its right that ltb4 and pge2 are also rising when we exercise but i think its not good to supplement something that rises espacially pge2
"AA supplementation caused significant increases in the in vitro secretion of LTB4, and PGE2"...

as you can read here (pubmed: "prostaglandins and inflammation" - fking 100post ****)
"In inflammation, PGE2 is of particular interest because it is involved in all processes leading to the classic signs of inflammation: redness, swelling and pain (37). Redness and edema result from increased blood flow into the inflamed tissue through PGE2-mediated augmentation of arterial dilatation and increased microvascular permeability (37). Pain results from the action of PGE2 on peripheral sensory neurons and on central sites within the spinal cord and the brain ..."

pge2 is a major prostanglandin in inflammatory processes in the body - for my understanding...
so to say that we only want to avoid markers like il-6, is not right - i would say...

"PGE2 levels tended to be greater in the AA group..."

Pge 2 thats produced in the state of diseases is also linked with increased il-6 on the other hand..
"PGE2 produced by rheumatoid synovium has been implicated in IL-6 production and joint destruction...."

maybe you can correct me or point something out that ive got wrong... no wanna be a smartass - just want to learn...

Let's take a step back here. We're talking AFTER supplementation. That is a key point. In healthy individuals where AA is not increased because of underlying conditions, those things have less of an impact.

Notice the key phrases used above? I.e. PGE2 produced by rhuematoid synovium? Thats stating as a result of this condition, PGE2 levels produced IL6 which results in MMPs destroying joint tissue. MMps are produced during excessive periods of inflammation, hence rhuematoid.
This is not what is produced through supplementation. They are by products of the condition itself.

I hope that makes sense, I am posting from my phone

As above, in healthy individuals AA actually reduces inflammation through the reduction of TNF A and Il6.

now, if you have a proinflammatory condition already, id say stay the hell away from ARA because the metabolites can be used to further prolong, or inflame already inflamed tissue. I'd 100% agree there.

That includes:

Arthritis
Bursitis
Tendonitis
Asthma etc

But if you are otherwise healthy, then it's less of a deal.

 

[Jiigzz]

hey man, I don't agree with Jiigzz on politics and we have argued in the past in another thread...but jiigzz is one of the most well intentioned, helpful, honest guys I have known on this forum. his reputation is beyond repute, imo!!!

oh yeah, I wish I were even half as knowledgeable as jiigzz!!!

Thanks BigT!

if I had any shred of doubt that I thought ARA was harmful for most people, or some new evieence was presented then id 100% change my stance. Im more than willing to be wrong if it means I learned something along the way.

Because of the role of AA in proinflammatory condition it is hard to seperate issues bought upon through an underlying issue and those through supplementation.

 

[Slims]

I don't know how relevant my personal ARA experiences are to this conversation but I'll throw it in anyway.
I've done three ARA runs and had beyond average strength and weight increases on all of them. Can't say if it increased the severity of illness symptoms (e.g. sore throat) or not but it is definitely one of my favourite natty anabolics.

 

[Studhorse]

Currently on ARA+Follidrone+mtest

Can’t vouch for the ARA yet but Follidrone/mtest has been on point. Muscle fullness/pumps are great so far

Follidrone+mtest. never used both at the same time. bet that would be a nice stack. Tried ARA and made my old man joints ache too much.

 

[jgntyce]

I am actually using m test , FD2, and exotherm. I haven’t been this vascular ever with muscle pumps to boot. Great stack!

 

[bb333]

Ara+Abe = STEROID

tried so many times, and I sincerely would like to return ... but ... with ara every time I got sick often ... and the game is not worth the candle! to stay at home affected (fever, sore throat) I do not want

 

[Slims]

I am actually using m test , FD2, and exotherm. I haven’t been this vascular ever with muscle pumps to boot. Great stack!

I'm interested in Exotherm, have you ever tried it solo?
How would you rate it's fatloss/thermogenic effects?

 

[BigGame84]

What about Ursolic Acid?

 

[kev4me]

What about Ursolic Acid?

have used oral and ur-spray , the transdermal blows the oral ur out of the water!

Its one of my favorite supps since release...

 

[Studhorse]

I'm interested in Exotherm, have you ever tried it solo?
How would you rate it's fatloss/thermogenic effects?

It is great. worked best for me when the cutting diet plateaus when I started using this I felt it the first day. helped me cut more and for me increased my workout intensity.
Please wash your hands after. I rubbed my eye one time after using it. not fun!

 

[jgntyce]

I'm interested in Exotherm, have you ever tried it solo?
How would you rate it's fatloss/thermogenic effects?

Yes I have used it solo with great results. What’s great about it is that it is also a mild AI. It further helps during a cut. Definitely made fat loss easier.

 

[Slims]

It is great. worked best for me when the cutting diet plateaus when I started using this I felt it the first day. helped me cut more and for me increased my workout intensity.
Please wash your hands after. I rubbed my eye one time after using it. not fun!

Yes I have used it solo with great results. What’s great about it is that it is also a mild AI. It further helps during a cut. Definitely made fat loss easier.

What is the carrier like? So how fast/well does it absorb?

 

[Joshlm69]

Was looking at getting Mass Max XT, maybe adding 1 cap of follidrone 2.0 to it for some more epi, does it stack well with anything else? Obviously not ARA as inflammitory/anti go against each other

 

[GreenMachineX]

Was looking at getting Mass Max XT, maybe adding 1 cap of follidrone 2.0 to it for some more epi, does it stack well with anything else? Obviously not ARA as inflammitory/anti go against each other

My wife is running MassMax now with an added 2 caps a day of Primeval’s Super Rhanderol. Not sure if it’s enough extra rhaponticum though...

 

[mbonheur]

My wife is running MassMax now with an added 2 caps a day of Primeval’s Super Rhanderol. Not sure if it’s enough extra rhaponticum though...

Good question. No ecdysterone was detected in MassMax XT (there still might be RCE in it) and Primeval might live up to the label claims or not (just google this company).

MOD EDIT: The above test you're referencing was supposedly done by a competitor who could not prove chain of custody on the product or any real "facts" about the test at all. Take that statement with a grain of salt.

 

[00A]

Good question. No ecdysterone was detected in MassMax XT (there still might be RCE in it) and Primeval might live up to the label claims or not (just google this company).

Exactly this MassMax no Ecdy..tbh even there test booster didnt do anything for me, I avoid this company - althought these boards love there products.. lots of advertising and placebo effects..

 

[Slims]

Exactly this MassMax no Ecdy..tbh even there test booster didnt do anything for me, I avoid this company - althought these boards love there products.. lots of advertising and placebo effects..

Yeah, MassMax was a big let down and it's a shame that labs confirmed that there was no actual ecdysterone. PerforMax is still a pretty decent and reputable company though, their SlinMax is still the best and most reliable GDA/NP.

MOD EDIT: The above test you're referencing was supposedly done by a competitor who could not prove chain of custody on the product or any real "facts" about the test at all. Take that statement with a grain of salt.

 

[AdelV]

Yeah, MassMax was a big let down and it's a shame that labs confirmed that there was no actual ecdysterone. PerforMax is still a pretty decent and reputable company though, their SlinMax is still the best and most reliable GDA/NP.

I liked MASSMAX XT, I felt like I leaned out on it!

I also love Hypermax XT, it's one if the few PWO that doesn't give me stim d##k.

Their intra supplement tasted pretty good too, I enjoyed it.

 

[dvw]

Super rhanderol has alot poor reviews. But Primeval is good company. I never used a supplement from them I didn't think was good.

 

[blongo804]

Pretty sad to hear about MassMax - I saw the results posted at the Boldanic forums. I'm using it right now, 2 weeks into it, and will be pretty mad if I'm wasting my time/money with it (I have a 2 month supply). I know supplements contribute very little to results, but if I'm using a supplement not meeting label claims, I'd be pretty mad.

 

[jameschoi]

Pretty sad to hear about MassMax - I saw the results posted at the Boldanic forums. I'm using it right now, 2 weeks into it, and will be pretty mad if I'm wasting my time/money with it (I have a 2 month supply). I know supplements contribute very little to results, but if I'm using a supplement not meeting label claims, I'd be pretty mad.

Can't you return it if not opened.

 

[blongo804]

Can't you return it if not opened.

I sure could. Might do so. Not too happy.

 

[Slims]

I sure could. Might do so. Not too happy.

If you already have it you may aswell run it. You could still get some results from the Epi and Methyls complex.

 

[khall1974]

That sucks about Massmax having zero ecdysterone. Maybe I got a placebo affect from it.

 

[mbonheur]

OK I am not a member over there, I went to search real quick but I did not found it, does it was tested at an independent place? Would ******** have any advantage to say it does not contain any?
muscleupcrohn anything you can say about it?

mod edit: nope

 

[brundel]

What is the carrier like? So how fast/well does it absorb?

The carrier is a gel. Same one I used for Formeron.
Thin enough to spread but not so thin that it squirts all over the place or runs like water.
It absorbs relatively fast but we dont want transdermals to be too high in solvents (dries faster) because it tends to cause skin irritation.
We need a balance between humectants and solvents that allows for skin hydration, less irritation and ideal penetration.
This carrier is perfect.

 

[kev4me]

Exactly this MassMax no Ecdy..tbh even there test booster didnt do anything for me, I avoid this company - althought these boards love there products.. lots of advertising and placebo effects..

not affiliated with perfomax labs or so... but my question to you- what would you expect from a natural test booster? have you done bloodwork after taking it, that you could say that there is no physiological prove?

cause if you havent, its hard to say if a natural test booster is working .. cause an increase of 30 or 50% of test production you wouldnt even notice in a timeframe of 4-12 weeks...only if you are super sensitive or have super low test...

to qoute "the old guy": "OP, I'd say most of them "work" if they contain the "usual suspects". It's just that "work" has been shown via blood work to be about 200 points in Total Testosterone, at the upper end. Only 100 points has been seen too. So where are you at with your levels? Going from 280ng/dl to 480ng/dl may in fact do *something*. Going from 500ng/dl to 600ng/dl probably won't. Libido can also be increased via non-hormonal pathways, in addition to hormonal (usually 5aR of Testosterone into DHT) - so that's a separate issue, see:..."

you simply wont get any muscular or strenght benefits from natural test boosters , even if they work like they should... ( talked with an endo about that 3 days ago)

 

[mbonheur]

mod edit: nope

OK, just to be clear, why is this exactly an infraction? ******** is listed as one of the sponsors on here.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Alvin1, the testing was not done by a “neutral third party” by any means; they make almost all their money selling ecdysterones, and their “tests” are suspicious at the very least. It could be a number of things from outright fabrication, shoddy testing, to testing a fake or doctored product. Feedback on the product is excellent. This bizarre episode says more about them (and about their ecdysterone and their testing methods) than it does about our product.

It is also curious, or suspicious, why the sent it half way across the world to a manufacture of ecdysterone (i.e. someone who also has skin in the game and is far from a “neutral third party”) when any lab in the US could test for it.

I have personally seen independent, third-party lab results for MassMax showing significant ecdysterone content using HPLC testing. For it to not show up at all on their “test” in insane, and beyond suspicious.

 

[00A]

not affiliated with perfomax labs or so... but my question to you- what would you expect from a natural test booster? have you done bloodwork after taking it, that you could say that there is no physiological prove?

cause if you havent, its hard to say if a natural test booster is working .. cause an increase of 30 or 50% of test production you wouldnt even notice in a timeframe of 4-12 weeks...only if you are super sensitive or have super low test...

I see where you getting at:

My main concern if a company makes false claims or claims their is a ingredient in its product and turns out not to be, then they have lied to the public, or the ingredient is so poor quality it do nothing. Makes you think what other stuff have they done?? So my confidence in them is out the window!

About the test booster, I took OL Kings Blood and YES I did bloods and showed hormone increases aswell as test, also did blood test recently on Epilogue to prove no hormones effected.

The reason I took Performax labs after one month + break from KingsBlood was to see if its be a better product and quiet frankly i felt zero nothing, no extra labido boost, no extra strenght. Now not taking any test boosters as it was just to try and not because of low test. Im just mentioning my experiances and not trying to discourage anyone as there plenty reviews on the forums, one thing I do know about this community is that 50percent ppl on here even more experiancing placebo effects!! The few people on here who actually understand “science, biology” choose carefully and get good results..

Anyway good luck man, hope you try products and report back

 

[kev4me]

Alvin1, the testing was not done by a “neutral third party” by any means; they make almost all their money selling ecdysterones, and their “tests” are suspicious at the very least. It could be a number of things from outright fabrication, shoddy testing, to testing a fake or doctored product. Feedback on the product is excellent. This bizarre episode says more about them (and about their ecdysterone and their testing methods) than it does about our product.

It is also curious, or suspicious, why the sent it half way across the world to a manufacture of ecdysterone (i.e. someone who also has skin in the game and is far from a “neutral third party”) when any lab in the US could test for it.

I have personally seen independent, third-party lab results for MassMax showing significant ecdysterone content using HPLC testing. For it to not show up at all on their “test” in insane, and beyond suspicious.

could you post this HPLC report? Cause otherwise your statement istn more valid than these statements of people bashing your product.

 

[kev4me]

I see where you getting at:

My main concern if a company makes false claims or claims their is a ingredient in its product and turns out not to be, then they have lied to the public, or the ingredient is so poor quality it do nothing. Makes you think what other stuff have they done?? So my confidence in them is out the window!

About the test booster, I took OL Kings Blood and YES I did bloods and showed hormone increases aswell as test, also did blood test recently on Epilogue to prove no hormones effected.

The reason I took Performax labs after one month + break from KingsBlood was to see if its be a better product and quiet frankly i felt zero nothing, no extra labido boost, no extra strenght. Now not taking any test boosters as it was just to try and not because of low test. Im just mentioning my experiances and not trying to discourage anyone as there plenty reviews on the forums, one thing I do know about this community is that 50percent ppl on here even more experiancing placebo effects!! The few people on here who actually understand “science, biology” choose carefully and get good results..

Anyway good luck man, hope you try products and report back

yeah i agree with you 100%... just want to clarify that taking natural test boosters for "strenght increases or muscular development, or even for libido improvement, is highly questionable... even if they increase your test by 50% or so... you wont notice a difference in these short timeframes (1-2 months..)

everyone that says otherwise has either extremly low test (after cycle as example) or simply is riding on the placebo train....

good luck to you too!

 

[Slims]

It absorbs relatively fast but we dont want transdermals to be too high in solvents (dries faster) because it tends to cause skin irritation.

How well does it absorb, does it leave any kind of residue or does it really sink in dry?

 

[Ari Gold]

mbonheur, they quit (and continued trying to market their products after doing so). Not sure why you got an infraction, but I'll have it drop off. Could be that multiple people reported the post as promoting a company that's not here any longer. No worries on that, you're good.