Unanswered What types of products or ingredients would you like to see from us?

sns8778

sns8778

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Here is mentality as a consumer which is hopefully beneficial for you on the business side, of course this is just my personal thoughts.

I like Forskolin but to my knowledge, its bang for your buck isn't necessarily high up though its really hard to gauge with most things. Just on my personal list its a decent/good product but not high on my purchase priority.
I also get some stomach discomfort when taking it at times, though not as much as I had gotten a bit more used to it. Of course taking it close to food helped reduce the problem but at the same time I thought I read it was more beneficial away from food so its kind of a lose lose situation. Efficiency vs comfort. Since I don't like the discomfort I also read that using a higher % extract with a lower overall dose was the better option for dealing with the discomfort.

So for me I get stuck in a pickle. I only will purchase the higher extracts to avoid the discomfort, but my personal value on the product is generally not high enough to purchase it while still making it reasonable it seems for a business to sell it =/.

Pairing it with other products, in my opinion, that maybe are harder to find in single ingredient forms may beneficial to create a purchasable combo for some. I tend to use forskolin as a priority more so when cutting and less of a priority when bulking (I tend to always "try" to lean bulk aka 250cal daily surplus).

Think I wrote more information than necessary, my bad. P.s. I totally understand your point on the business side of it.
I always appreciate the information and insight.

I agree with your assessments. Let me expand on them to say that - the problem then becomes that it is such as expensive ingredient compared to others on a one on one basis that if using it in a formula, a company has to decide whether they want to use this one ingredient or possible 2 to 3 others that don't possibly cause stomach discomfort and that people like as well.
 

Mike Arnold

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PLCAR - it didn't sell well at all and is a nightmare for contract manufacturers to make as a single ingredient because it's so sticky on the machinery so we had to run larger size production runs to make it worth it to them and the sales just didn't support it.

Interesting ideas. I'll look into some of these when I have time.

HICA caps are something I debated on for a long time. We may look into that one, but there's also an upcoming release that may have HICA in it with a couple other things so will likely hold off until after that because it may knock out the demand for it as a single ingredient.

As someone who loves B-Triol in a topical, I never felt like I got anywhere near the response from the oral form you mentioned that I did the topical. Did you try it?



I have tried it at different dosages and I think 50 mg. to 100 mg. is the way to go honestly. I've seen research on it as low as 50 mg. per day and then at higher dosing but based on the way it makes me feel personally, I wouldn't ever be able to take the 300 to 400 mg. like in the post mentioned below.



Touched on this above but wanted to acknowledge it. I've tried it as a single ingredient and I couldn't imagine taking that dose myself. Some of the studies I've seen went as low as 50 mg. per day on the dosing with good results and then I did see some that went higher.



There are unfortunately companies that do do that - that are more about the marketing and money than customers and real results. It's unfortunate; and what's even more unfortunate is that most of the time they are the ones that are the most profitable because more margin based on using the lower dosing = more money to spend on marketing.

But on a happy note, that's not what we do and that's what this thread is about :)
Se bold above: Yes, sir. The most profitable companies have the least effective products due to their massive profit margins.
 

Mike Arnold

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Yes, very much so. Huge minimum orders and low profit margins.

VPX and Cellucor both had huge distribution networks before launching theirs. VPX for example, even though Redline wasn't nearly as wildly successful as Bang, it was still very popular and widely sold.

Thank you for the kind words on Focus XT. I so wish we could do something like a carbonated drink version but unfortunately we don't have the distribution network or the ability to do such a huge production run. Plus, you can only have a certain amount of grams of active ingredients in a product like that for stability purposes and the Focus XT dosage exceeds that by a long shot. If it were to ever happen, we would have to scale back the dosage pretty substantially for it; which even if we cut most of the actives in half it would still be very solid for that class of products.

One last thing and this is something that we get a lot - people expect the energy drink world to be so loaded with caffeine now days. We get asked all the time if we're going to do a version of Focus XT with more caffeine or add more caffeine to the formula. Caffeine is synergistic with nootropics in that it helps enhance the effects of other nootropics but if you go with caffeine overload with them, you may negate the actual focus benefits by overdoing it. That's why we dose the caffeine where we do - because you can always add more caffeine if you want more. And plus, Focus XT is meant to appeal to such a wide variety of people and so many people in the mainstream general public want to drink it along with their morning tea or coffee and aren't willing to give up their morning tea or coffee and didn't want to feel like they have to give that up to use Focus XT. I hope that makes sense.
I like the fact that this guy tells the truth. There's not many company owners who are willing to go on the boards and tell the truth, especially when confronted with unpopular positions.

Guys, marketing, unfortunately, often makes or breaks a product. There is one particular company out there with a wildly successful product...and which is marketed as a "whole food" meal replacement product. When looking at the ingredient profile, it appears it contains a wide variety of whole protein sources, whole complex carbs, fruits and even some vegetables. But...the truth is that if you knew what it was really comprised of, you probably wouldn't want to use it as part of your nutrition program even if you got it for free, let alone pay for it. Because they use a proprietary blend (there is a reason basically ALL whole food products use proprietary blends), they can put as much or as little of each ingredient in the product as they want. In reality, 95% of the product is nothing but oats and ground up bones, tendons, and ligaments....and it will cost you about $50. The 1st protein source listed (beef protein isolate) comprises 90% of the total "protein" in the bottle. However, unlike whey, casein or egg, beef protein isolate is nothing but gelatin, which means it is derived from bones, tendons and ligaments. There is absolutely ZERO beef flesh (i.e. muscle) in this stuff. Even worse, the bioavailability is absolutely horrid. It is an incomplete protein source with a terrible amino acid profile, essentially making it is worthless for muscle building. You would be better off going and buying yourself a bucket of Jello, as it not only contains the same thing (e.g. gelatin), but it tastes better too!

A big ole' pile of ground up bones sounds great, right? It better, because this is what you are paying for when you spend $50 on this stuff. And make no mistake, about 90% of the protein in this product comes directly from beef protein isolate . Why? Simple. It is the cheapest protein source on the market. Aside from that, you get a bunch of oats. While oats are fine, do you really think a 5 lb. bucket of oats is worth $50?

As for the fruits and vegetables within the product, you are receiving a literal dusting in each serving. The quantities provided is so small that they are meaningless, but it looks good on the label, right? It makes you feel like you are eating sonmething healthy, right? That's the whole point--exactly what they are trying to accomplish through deceptive marketing...and many fall for it.

Marketing is a powerful tool...and the companies who strive to use the best (and properly dosed) ingredients almost always end up making the least amount of money...simply because their profit margins won't allow them to make the big dollars. In almost all cases, the big companies everyone knows about and which you see in retail stores, are the ones selling overpriced garbage. They sell $5-$8 products for $60...and then market them so successfully that they are able to get away with it over and over again. You will never see a product with a $36 production cost selling for $60 (like Vicaine), as they expect profit margins in the 400%-1,000% range. Many of the people who buy mainstream supps would feel ill if they knew how badly they were overpaying for their products.

Anyway, it's nice to see other company owners posting the truth about this stuff.
 
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Kal2435

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Someone refresh my memory on C3G - is there research showing that it needs to be a branded version or is generic okay on this? If I remember correctly (its been a long time since I've researched it and honestly won't have time to in next couple weeks) the studies were on regular extracts and then some companies just put a (TM) on fancy names of it.

I remember looking into this a few years ago and the pricing at that time was insane.
I have never seen any research on a branded version being better, however I know bio-availability/absorption is a concern as it is with most anthocyanins.
 
sns8778

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I have never seen any research on a branded version being better, however I know bio-availability/absorption is a concern as it is with most anthocyanins.
I did some refreshing on this and I agree. There seem to be 5% and 10% extracts available most commonly. When you were talking about dosages, were you saying that's what you were hoping for total or active? I'm noticing some companies are making out like they are providing x dosage of C3G when they are really providing x dosage of ____ std. down for 5% to 10% C3G (most likely because its on the expensive side).
 
Cheeky Monkey

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I like the fact that this guy tells the truth. There's not many company owners who are willing to go on the boards and tell the truth, especially when confronted with unpopular positions.

Guys, marketing, unfortunately, often makes or breaks a product. There is one particular company out there with a wildly successful product...and which is marketed as a "whole food" meal replacement product. When looking at the ingredient profile, it appears it contains a wide variety of whole protein sources, whole complex carbs, fruits and even some vegetables. But...the truth is that if you knew what it was really comprised of, you probably wouldn't want to use it as part of your nutrition program even if you got it for free, let alone pay for it. Because they use a proprietary blend (there is a reason basically ALL whole food products use proprietary blends), they can put as much or as little of each ingredient in the product as they want. In reality, 95% of the product is nothing but oats and ground up bones, tendons, and ligaments....and it will cost you about $50. The 1st protein source listed (beef protein isolate) comprises 90% of the total "protein" in the bottle. However, unlike whey, casein or egg, beef protein isolate is nothing but gelatin, which means it is derived from bones, tendons and ligaments. There is absolutely ZERO beef flesh (i.e. muscle) in this stuff. Even worse, the bioavailability is absolutely horrid. It is an incomplete protein source with a terrible amino acid profile, essentially making it is worthless for muscle building. You would be better off going and buying yourself a bucket of Jello, as it not only contains the same thing (e.g. gelatin), but it tastes better too!

A big ole' pile of ground up bones sounds great, right? It better, because this is what you are paying for when you spend $50 on this stuff. And make no mistake, about 90% of the protein in this product comes directly from beef protein isolate . Why? Simple. It is the cheapest protein source on the market. Aside from that, you get a bunch of oats. While oats are fine, do you really think a 5 lb. bucket of oats is worth $50?

As for the fruits and vegetables within the product, you are receiving a literal dusting in each serving. The quantities provided is so small that they are meaningless, but it looks good on the label, right? It makes you feel like you are eating sonmething healthy, right? That's the whole point--exactly what they are trying to accomplish through deceptive marketing...and many fall for it.

Marketing is a powerful tool...and the companies who strive to use the best (and properly dosed) ingredients almost always end up making the least amount of money...simply because their profit margins won't allow them to make the big dollars. In almost all cases, the big companies everyone knows about and which you see in retail stores, are the ones selling overpriced garbage. They sell $5-$8 products for $60...and then market them so successfully that they are able to get away with it over and over again. You will never see a product with a $36 production cost selling for $60 (like Vicaine), as they expect profit margins in the 400%-1,000% range. Many of the people who buy mainstream supps would feel ill if they knew how badly they were overpaying for their products.

Anyway, it's nice to see other company owners posting the truth about this stuff.
What about having COAs? As a consumer, I can say for sure that regardless of efficacy, I'll be more much more inclined to buy supps from a company that provides COAs vs one that doesn't. Because ultimately if the product doesn't work, then I have nothing to complain about.
 

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