Warning - Serotonin Syndrome

[DR.D]

Dr. D, Have you ever heard of serotonin syndrome resulting from a combo of Prozac and Ephedra? A friend of mine was taking 20 mgs of prozac ED and began taking a product containing 100mg caffeine and 10mgs of ephedrine alkaloids and became violently ill. Of course when she mentioned to the doctor that she had been taking EC, they assumed the EC and Prozac was to blame, but I know many people who have taken the same combo (my GF included and at higher doses) and have not had ANY effects. I know that the medical community thinks that a dose of EC is like asking for a heart attack, but with all the people on Prozac and EC during the 90's and so little AER on the EC/Prozac combo I am leaning towards food poisoning from the Chinese Buffet she ate earlier. Oh, and here is the kicker, she hadn't taken the EC for 3 days when she became sick. What is the t1/2 of Ephedrine. I thought it was rather short (4-6 hours).

Yeah, most docs are pretty clueless on EC. It can promote nausea on serotonergics, but not 3 days later and not violently usually. I took 60mg d-amphetamine/600mg caffeine (just like an EC stack but more hardcore) for over a decade with SSRI's on and off. I never had the syndrome.

 

[Ghosting]

I'd replace the Valium with Rhodiola..particularly for long term use. Just my 2 cents.

Some light reading.

www.herbalgram.org/herbalgram/articleview.asp?a=2333

LOL. Because I read this post and thought I could get RR to act like Valium, I ordered some. NOW foods 500mg/cap. Then 1 night I took one. Nothing. The 2nd night I took 2. Little something, but nothing to write home about. Tonight I took 3. LOL. Am I ever hating life. It very subtely snuck up on me, but I feel like Im on a heavy dose of valium. :afro:

 

[DR.D]

You say it like it's a bad thing.
I guess I should try the NOW brand, the 1fast powder didn't phase me at all.

 

[Ghosting]

You say it like it's a bad thing.
I guess I should try the NOW brand, the 1fast powder didn't phase me at all.

LMAO, True. I mean I am just beyond calm. I am "chicken pecking" the keys to type. How much or the 1fart brand did you try?

 

[Ghosting]

That reminds me, is d-amph something I have to ask my doc for or can I get it like a "research chem?"

 

[bioman]

I've been dosing the 1Fast RR powder at..ohh roughly 700+ mg per day spread out. Seems to work ok. Unfortunately, it does not sedate me much..or the effect has down regulated too much to notice anymore.

Picking up some ultra-high potency Valerian root extract tomorrow from an herbalist in town. It's the shizz. I'll be sleeping well tomorrow night.

 

[Ghosting]

I've been dosing the 1Fast RR powder at..ohh roughly 700+ mg per day spread out. Seems to work ok. Unfortunately, it does not sedate me much..or the effect has down regulated too much to notice anymore.

Picking up some ultra-high potency Valerian root extract tomorrow from an herbalist in town. It's the shizz. I'll be sleeping well tomorrow night.

No wonder I feel like a hibernating bear, I took 1500mg. Man do I ever feel sutpid.

 

[darius]

OK, so you know like how people say and there are studies (any links guys?) that long term treatment of Prozac creates more receptors and thus the results can be lasting. Is this just with Prozac based on how it's designed or would this apply to all SSRI's, like Luvox (fluvoxamine)? I want to use Luvox because it appears thru studies to be the best for GSAD. I'm seeing the doc tomorrow. Gonna ask her about it and bring the pubmed studies. The Prozac + Klonopin is great for me, but my doc doesn't know about the Klonopin and I would rather be normal without it. So maybe Luvox would be cool cause there are a ton a positive studies.

 

[darius]

Anyways, talked the doc into stopping the Prozac and starting me up on Luvox. Sure I didn't give Prozac a long enough run, but from what I've read, it increases anxiety in 1/3 of the people who take it. I wanted to start the Luvox dose at 50mg and increase to 100mg in a few days, but she is only giving me 25mg/1month supply. I will try it. She told me to call in a couple weeks and if its working we can bump the dose. She doesn't like the idea of me being on Klonopin for some reason, so she prescribed me Xanax .5mg XR until the Luvox starts doing its thing. Damn, I work in the pharmacy and I know Xanax XR does not come in a generic. Oh well. Hopefully this plus my CBT will help, and my new diet as well.

 

[DR.D]

50mg of Luvox is a good dose if you're already depressed, but 25mg is the perfect everyday dose for anxiety. 100mg a bit too much. Seriously, you'll think your in a cartoon at that dose. I've seen colors that don't even exist in the "real" world on 100mg before.

 

[darius]

50mg of Luvox is a good dose if you're already depressed, but 25mg is the perfect everyday dose for anxiety. 100mg a bit too much. Seriously, you'll think your in a cartoon at that dose. I've seen colors that don't even exist in the "real" world on 100mg before.

Nice..

Thanks Dr. D. Your insight has been very much appreciated. The doc told me that I can not drink AT ALL while on Luvox. Any validity in that or what? Shes actually a community nurse practitioner, not even a doc. I told her about Fluvoxamine and she was like "thats what you are already on!!" lol. I was like "nooooo... LUVOX, not PROZAC" lol. She had never even heard of it. She looked it up on her pc to see if she could prescribe it and get general info and we couldn't find it under the brand name. She said that its old and they probably don't sell it anymore. I said they still do and search by generic. Sure enough its there. So she was hesitant cause the side effect profile looked pretty bad (to her) according to the other SSRI's even tho the research I have done says comepletely different. So she gave it to me. She's cool and she's good friends with my folks, so she kinda looks out for me, kinda like a mom. So I will give this a whirl and see what happens.

Dr. D, any other info I should know about Luvox? How long before I feel its effects and any common side effects that you were aware of?

Thanks Doc.

 

[DR.D]

Nice..

Thanks Dr. D. Your insight has been very much appreciated. The doc told me that I can not drink AT ALL while on Luvox. Any validity in that or what? Shes actually a community nurse practitioner, not even a doc. I told her about Fluvoxamine and she was like "thats what you are already on!!" lol. I was like "nooooo... LUVOX, not PROZAC" lol. She had never even heard of it. She looked it up on her pc to see if she could prescribe it and get general info and we couldn't find it under the brand name. She said that its old and they probably don't sell it anymore. I said they still do and search by generic. Sure enough its there. So she was hesitant cause the side effect profile looked pretty bad (to her) according to the other SSRI's even tho the research I have done says comepletely different. So she gave it to me. She's cool and she's good friends with my folks, so she kinda looks out for me, kinda like a mom. So I will give this a whirl and see what happens.

Dr. D, any other info I should know about Luvox? How long before I feel its effects and any common side effects that you were aware of?

Thanks Doc.

I'm not sure why but Luvox never got very popular. Serzone was released at about the same time and the SSRI market was already flooded so maybe it was just bad timing, but I like it the best of them all. Stomach upset is the most common side, I use Pepto to control it. Take 100mg/d until you feel it strongly, then back off to 50 and then 25. 25mg may not do it and you have to go back to 50, but always shoot for the lowerst effective dose. Oh yeah, I used to drink on it too, but this was like 9 or 10 years ago. You should not get wasted every night, but a few times a wk or a few drinks a night is no problem at all. It's good to have people on your side (like the nurse prac) and it sounds like you played it just right. :thumbsup:

 

[darius]

DR.D,
Unfortunately, the Luvox is not working well for me. I've been on it 25mg for over 3 weeks now. My nurse practioner will not up the dose from 25mg, and at 25mg, I feel like my anxiety is being increased. Whenever I drink a Coke or something with caffeine, my heart rate stays fast and elevated for a long time (few hours). Bad reaction with caffeine. I get dry mouth really bad in anxious situations, stomach problems all the time, and I am really drowsy during the day. The worst though is that the anxiety has increased. I am going to the nurse pract. later this week, and she is going to switch me to something else. I wanted to try Lexapro. What are your thoughts on Lexapro for social anxiety?


Is there a possibility that I already have alot of serotonin and the extra serotonin is increasing my anxiety?

 

[s.norman]

try zoloft, effexor, or paxil they are all fda approved for all axiety disorders.

 

[DR.D]

DR.D,
Unfortunately, the Luvox is not working well for me. I've been on it 25mg for over 3 weeks now. My nurse practioner will not up the dose from 25mg, and at 25mg, I feel like my anxiety is being increased. Whenever I drink a Coke or something with caffeine, my heart rate stays fast and elevated for a long time (few hours). Bad reaction with caffeine. I get dry mouth really bad in anxious situations, stomach problems all the time, and I am really drowsy during the day. The worst though is that the anxiety has increased. I am going to the nurse pract. later this week, and she is going to switch me to something else. I wanted to try Lexapro. What are your thoughts on Lexapro for social anxiety?


Is there a possibility that I already have alot of serotonin and the extra serotonin is increasing my anxiety?

Sorry to hear that. The Lexapro is even more activating than the Luvox. Probably a bad choice for you. Did you ever try Trazadone? You may have good setotonin levels. May be dopamine that's acting up.

 

[darius]

No, I haven't tried the Trazodone.

This morning I stumbled across body dysmorphic disorder, something I hadn't read about ever, and I think that is me 100%. I read more about it and it is probably why I am having social anxiety type problems. BDD is supposedly a form of OCD. Then it starts making sense to me, cause my sister had OCD, which she no longer has thanks to therapy, and 2 out of my 4 first relation cousins have OCD. I meet all the criteria for it from the DSM-IV-TR. I never realized there was an actual disorder for all of that, I just thought it was being very self-conscious.

I think its a mix of me hating my pubertal gyno (I've tried everything to try to get rid of it besides the knife, nolva cycles, RXT, raloxifene, different topicals including 3-alpha) for so long and I also definitely have muscle dysmorphia.

It seems like alot of the treatment for BDD is the same as OCD. And the treatment for OCD seems to be SSRI's, but higher doses than what depressed/anxious people take. I know Fluvoxamine is good for this, but I am having alot of problems being on it. The other one that also seemed to work awesome for OCD from what I read was Paxil. I don't know if that is something that I want to get on, especially if the sexual effects are permanent. If they are permanent, then no thanks. I've read good reviews about Lexapro for OCD.

How does an SSRI help with BDD/OCD? Does it just make you feel so good that you don't care about your negative self-image?

I am now pretty sure that the reason why I have social anxiety is because of BDD. I hate the gyno > The gyno is a part of me > I hate myself in that aspect > Low self-esteem/confidence > Social problems.

I am going to see my nurse practioner today and I will explain all of this to her. She thought she was treating SAD, so I'm sure this will change things.

Which medicine would you recommend now?
I really appreciate all your help DR.D, seriously its been awesome, thanks.

 

[darius]

Got back from the office with some samples: 2 week sample of Lexapro 10mg, and 3 week sample of Toprol XL 25mg for my high bp (probably cause of my SD cycle, but yeah, they don't know that).

I took the Lexapro 10mg and Toprol XL 25mg a couple hours before work. I took .25mg Klonopin 30 min. prior to work. I don't know what it was, but I felt mildly euphoric. I still had anxiety, but talking and interaction was 10x easier. Maybe its placebo, maybe its the Toprol XL, I don't know, but it seems way too early for the Lexapro, even though Lex should be the quickest out of all of them.

 

[s.norman]

No, I haven't tried the Trazodone.

This morning I stumbled across body dysmorphic disorder, something I hadn't read about ever, and I think that is me 100%. I read more about it and it is probably why I am having social anxiety type problems. BDD is supposedly a form of OCD. Then it starts making sense to me, cause my sister had OCD, which she no longer has thanks to therapy, and 2 out of my 4 first relation cousins have OCD. I meet all the criteria for it from the DSM-IV-TR. I never realized there was an actual disorder for all of that, I just thought it was being very self-conscious.

I think its a mix of me hating my pubertal gyno (I've tried everything to try to get rid of it besides the knife, nolva cycles, RXT, raloxifene, different topicals including 3-alpha) for so long and I also definitely have muscle dysmorphia.

It seems like alot of the treatment for BDD is the same as OCD. And the treatment for OCD seems to be SSRI's, but higher doses than what depressed/anxious people take. I know Fluvoxamine is good for this, but I am having alot of problems being on it. The other one that also seemed to work awesome for OCD from what I read was Paxil. I don't know if that is something that I want to get on, especially if the sexual effects are permanent. If they are permanent, then no thanks. I've read good reviews about Lexapro for OCD.

How does an SSRI help with BDD/OCD? Does it just make you feel so good that you don't care about your negative self-image?

I am now pretty sure that the reason why I have social anxiety is because of BDD. I hate the gyno > The gyno is a part of me > I hate myself in that aspect > Low self-esteem/confidence > Social problems.

I am going to see my nurse practioner today and I will explain all of this to her. She thought she was treating SAD, so I'm sure this will change things.

Which medicine would you recommend now?
I really appreciate all your help DR.D, seriously its been awesome, thanks.

bdd and anorexia are both forms of ocd but anorexia is a distortion of self perception of the body and bdd is a distorted image of facial features when looking in mirror

 

[darius]

BDD from the DSM-IV:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]A.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Preoccupation with an imagined defect in appearance. If a slight physical anomaly is present, the person's concern is markedly excessive. [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]B.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The preoccupation causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. [/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]C.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The preoccupation is not better accounted for by another mental disorder.[/FONT] Wikipedia:
Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD) is a mental disorder which involves a disturbed body image. The central feature of BDD is that persons who are afflicted with it are excessively dissatisfied with their body because of a perceived physical defect. An example would be a man who is extremely worried that his nose is too big, although other people don't notice anything unusual about it.


It's not just the face for BDD (I'm totally cool with my face).

 

[s.norman]

bdd usually has a compulsive component in which the effected person will spend hours in front of a mirror brooding about their deformity. this is time consuming and will impair social performance.

 

[DR.D]

I have never fully quantitated all the deeper motives of why I still lift, but have come to the conclusion that most of us on this board probably have at least a mild version of BDD.

 

[bioman]

Agreed. It is the driving force behind BBing, IMO, and this is where roid abuse stems from in those individuals who are prone.

From what I've read, it is really kinda tough to diagnose between the various forms of anxiety unless there is something really glaring like..standing in front of the mirror for hours on end, incessant hand washing et cetera.

I'm certainly not qualified to diagnose anyone, but I'd say your condition sounds more like Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) that effects both your social interactions and body image. Plus, in your teens and twenties you tend to be more "high strung" and prone to the effects of anxiety. At least that's how it was for me at your age. You'll hear a lot of people say that they enjoy their 30s-40s much more than their teens and twenties. IMO, this is one reason why...you become more accepting of yourself with age, physically, mentally and spiritually.

 

[darius]

Yeah, talked with the counselor the other day and it seems like all of this may be stemming from having really overprotective parents. Environment of "fear" at home -> Fearful of outside situations/low self-esteem -> Anxiety problems/Chronic high bp.

I wonder if an SSRI would be appropriate in that instance. I don't know what it is, if it's the Lexapro or the beta-blocker, but I do feel somewhat better so far. I am also trying to change my thinking/becoming aware of the problematic thinking so I can stop it. Plus things are just stressful in general.

Thanks for everyone's help and insight.

 

[stratvox]

this is a great post very useful info. i just got prescribed lexapro again and have not started taking it yet. I tried it a few years ago but could not have an orgasm while on it. It kinda made me feel better but part of my current depression is my wife wont put out so I guess it really is a moot point. I think its great that the guys here can be honest enough to admit to trying these meds.I was a little ashamed at firat but now I just want to feel better.

 

[darius]

this is a great post very useful info. i just got prescribed lexapro again and have not started taking it yet. I tried it a few years ago but could not have an orgasm while on it. It kinda made me feel better but part of my current depression is my wife wont put out so I guess it really is a moot point. I think its great that the guys here can be honest enough to admit to trying these meds.I was a little ashamed at firat but now I just want to feel better.

Thats interesting cause I think it's making it more difficult to have an orgasm for me too, but so soon? I've only been on like 4 days.

Yeah, were all here to help each other out and to learn more, so don't ever feel ashamed.

 

[AgentOrange]

Doc, I'm the guy who started this thread on serotonin syndrom... "ingestible bulk" or whatever my screen name was at the time.

Anyway, at the time I had asked you about adding phenibut to bupropion, as I was concerned about negative interactions.

Well, I just got around to tyring it this week and LOVE it. I hate that I waited this long to try the phen - amazing stuff and an excellent sidekick to bupropion.

Thanks for tip!!!

AO

 

[DR.D]

It sounded like a good stack alright. I'm glad to see it's working for you. Does the Phen smooth out the Buprop a little like we thought it might?

 

[AgentOrange]

It sounded like a good stack alright. I'm glad to see it's working for you. Does the Phen smooth out the Buprop a little like we thought it might?

Yes, I would say that is accurate. I weigh about 207 and take a 1 gram dose in the evening. It is relaxing, but without being intoxicating. It also seems to improve periphereal blood flow.

Some people complain of headaches at higher doses, but to date I have not experienced any negative effects.

 

[bigman77]

side effects

I have been using Effexor for about 2 months now. I would to start phrasing off, but the doc says to stay on for about 6 months. The only reason I started the drug was due to a break up with my girlfriens. I am all natural and believe more in herbs than drugs. I hate the side effects of this drug. The other day I went 2 days off the drug and I was turning donuts in my parking lot! Any take on this?

 

[bigman77]

I skipped my dose of Effexor and took St. John's. I drank a protein shake for lunch prior to my workout. I started my Deca/d-bol cycle. Twenty minutes of hitting the legs I about hit the floor. I had no idea where I was. What is causing this? The cycle or the SSRI.

 

[bioman]

It's the Effexor. You cannot simply stop taking it..you need to cycle off slowly or you're going to be a mess for a while. Just tell your Doc to give you a lower dosed Effexor kit for cycling off because you do not like it. He can't make you stay on it and must respect your decision. Abruptly stopping this drug is a bad idea so I would call your Doc ASAP.

 

[joefixit71]

I have never fully quantitated all the deeper motives of why I still lift, but have come to the conclusion that most of us on this board probably have at least a mild version of BDD.

Question. I have been having a tough time with my body weight while on lexapro and previously effexor. I've been presently on lexapro for about a year and a half and was on effexor on and off for about a 2 years before that. I know that it was the cause of my weight gain, even though I eat well and am consistant with my cardio. But my question is has this effected anyones strength gains. I believe this has caused my bench press to go down. Has anyone seen this before where the lexapro effects strength... I even took 1 ad for the first time while on lexapro and I didn't gain any strength off of it... Could the lexapro cause stop my gains from the 1ad?

 

[DR.D]

I've never seen an SSRI hurt gains, but they can blunt 'gym intensity' for sure. That can add up over a year or two.

 

[Aeternitatis]

Its too bad regular OTC GABA doesnt pass the BBB, it would be pretty popular if it did.

Regular GABA is still effective. It works on the hypthalamus. BBB in this case doesn't matter. Just watch the dose or you'll get The Itch!

 

[joefixit71]

I've never seen an SSRI hurt gains, but they can blunt 'gym intensity' for sure. That can add up over a year or two.

Its wierd... Since I've been on lexapro or effexor i can't get back to where my strength was on bench.. I use to be able to do 315x4-5 times, before ever taking any 1-ad, the only prohormone that I actually tried and worked (never wanted to try anything more potent that that). But now I go from 275x6 to 275x8 on good days and I'm 15-20 pounds heavier.. Sucks
The other wierd thing was i tried 1ad again about 4 months ago and I started with 3 pills and went to 5 but no gains at all.. I know you need to take more after you've done it before, but I would expect to at least see something off of it...

 

[s.norman]

i've been on zoloft for 2 years and like it very much. i had a lot of anxiety and panic attacks at the time and the doc said i have GAD. i reakized later that it was an adverse reaction to the gear and that i was an "anxiety-sensitive juicer". w/ the zoloft i can cycle highly androgenic drugs w/ no prob

 

[joefixit71]

i've been on zoloft for 2 years and like it very much. i had a lot of anxiety and panic attacks at the time and the doc said i have GAD. i reakized later that it was an adverse reaction to the gear and that i was an "anxiety-sensitive juicer". w/ the zoloft i can cycle highly androgenic drugs w/ no prob

So you feel the Zoloft doesn't interfere with your gains? How is Zoloft on the old libido??

 

[Magickk]

This is a heads-up to the one or two bros here that take anti-depressants. I take lexapro (20mg) and wellbutrin (150mg) ED. For better or for worse, I am also prone to experimentation with chems (well, I guess we all are or we wouldn't be on this board, right?) Yesterday afternoon I picked up a supp containing 5-htp and tyrosine. Thinking that "if a little serotonin is good, then more would be better" I popped two caps before lunch - the dosage was small and I wasn't the least bit concerned.

Thirty minutes later, I was laying on the floor of a public building puking my guts out. I was intensely dizzy, my extremities were numb, and I was sweating like I had run a marathon. A passer-by thought I was having a MI and called an ambulance.

Dudes, this sucked so bad that it is hard to put into words. If you're on prescription meds, PLEASE do your homework before you take anything that has the potential to effect neurotransmitter levels in a significant way.

Make sure you never take ecstacy... You'd probably die... :blink:

 

[s.norman]

no effect on gains or libido. its necessary if i'm to continue using aas-panic attacks are no fun! sexually it delays orgasm.

 

[keninishna]

toporol I thought was amazing for anxiety, it helps reeealy well if you do any sort of public speaking but I would get depressed from it. I would wake up in the mornings thinking WOW THIS SUCKS, then I would get up and be awsome through the day with no anxiety lol. Toporol will also make you fat. Oh yeah and I found this interesting study on biopyschiatry.com

Double-Blind, controlled, crossover trial of inositol versus fluvoxamine for the treatment of panic disorder
by
Palatnik A, Frolov K, Fux M, Benjamin J.
Ministry of Health Mental Health Center,
Faculty of Health Sciences,
Ben Gurion University of the Negev,
Beer-Sheba, Israel.
J Clin Psychopharmacol 2001 Jun; 21(3):335-9

ABSTRACT
Only 70% of patients respond to current treatments for panic disorder, and many discontinue drugs because of side effects. myo-Inositol, a natural isomer of glucose and a precursor for the second-messenger phosphatidyl-inositol system, has previously been found superior to placebo in the treatment of depression, panic disorder, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), but a direct comparison with an established drug has never been performed. A double-blind, controlled, random-order crossover study was undertaken to compare the effect of inositol with that of fluvoxamine in panic disorder. Twenty patients completed 1 month of inositol up to 18 g/day and 1 month of fluvoxamine up to 150 mg/day. Improvements on Hamilton Rating Scale for Anxiety scores, agoraphobia scores, and Clinical Global Impressions Scale scores were similar for both treatments. In the first month, inositol reduced the number of panic attacks per week (mean and SD) by 4.0 (2) compared with a reduction of 2.4 (2) with fluvoxamine (p = 0.049). Nausea and tiredness were more common with fluvoxamine (p = 0.02 and p = 0.01, respectively). Because inositol is a natural compound with few known side effects, it is attractive to patients who are ambivalent about taking psychiatric medication. Continuing reports of inositol's efficacy in the treatment of depression, panic disorder, and OCD should stimulate replication studies.

 

[DR.D]

I wonder how bad the sides where from 18g inositol/d? I'd think you would get a pretty major osmotic response from that, but if you sipped it in water all day, that's could be an interesting treatment.

 

[bioman]

I give about 5-10 grams Inusitol to my wife for anxiety attacks..works pretty well within about 20-30 minutes. The sides from big doses are gas..you'll get pretty gassy the first time you try it but your body gets used to it very quickly.

It imparts a very nice relaxation of the muscles and mind without being stupifying...and the best thing is it is dirt cheap by the kilo and tastes pretty good when mixed with water.


Some of you might want to sample/look into colloidal gold as well. I am enjoying this stuff so far.

 

[DR.D]

Andhen2003,

I took 50-300mg of Zoloft for about a year once. The NHA stack should be fine. Maybe some activation, which is fine on Zoloft though. SD may prompt some aggression, or the Zoloft may counter that. SD doesn't seem to gear may other people. Just me sometimes at first and a handfull of others I've heard from. SD is a feel good compound for the most part (like test increase is with the NHA) and should not promote depression. Clomid may increase emotional liability (moodiness) or the Zolft may counter it. Nolva ia pretty clean mentally, but the loss of libido can depress the hell outta me, especially combined with the performace issues the Zoloft can cause. I avoid Nolva for many reasons and endure the nasty Clomid. Low doses (50-100mg) are much kinder with Clomid.

 

[bioman]

SD and M1T upset my apple cart. I attribute it to the lipid crash associated with these compounds that is thought to play a role in seratonin regulation. I am not however on any meds and the crash lasts for about 3-4 weeks.

 

[DR.D]

Excellent points Bio. Lipids play a major role for some, as do blood globins.

 

[bioman]

Severe depression..if didn't know what was happening I would have sought help. Not trying tyo dissaude anyone from using SD, just be aware if you start feeling shitty, that's why. Knowing why is super important.

Seratonin Syndrome (SS) is indeed too much seratonin being produced. It basically overwhelms the receptors causing dizziness, nausea, vomiting, migraine, tremors. If administration of the offending drug or supp is not stopped, it can result in death. Generally, you have time to stop the drug before it gets deadly but some are very sensitive to this.

Abruptly stopping newer generation SSRI's like Effexor can also spark SS as the drug mechanism that's been holding back excess seratonin is suddenly removed causing a flood of seratonin.

That's my take anyway, Dr D can probably describe it in better detail.

 

[DR.D]

Bio has said it correctly. Serotonin syndrome can result from too much or depleted levels. The drug MDMA (X) can cause this as well. Sweating, rapid irregular changes in vital signs, cardiac probs, etc.. nasty stuff. MAOI's can cause it in combination with serotonergics also. It's hard to reverse in many cases, once it has begun.

 

[LCSULLA]

I think I had this once. I was taking PhenFen and one of the compounds effects seratonin levels. And I was whacked out of my gord for the month I was taking it. I thought I was GOD. As soon as I came off I it was over and I was back to normal. Defenitly weird.

 

[Magickk]

I think I had this once. I was taking PhenFen and one of the compounds effects seratonin levels. And I was whacked out of my gord for the month I was taking it. I thought I was GOD. As soon as I came off I it was over and I was back to normal. Defenitly weird.

Sounds like some good ****!!!

 

[Magickk]

I don't think serotonin syndrome is something that you can "develop", persay. I think you are either prone to it, and if you take a serotonin regulating drug you experience it; or you're not prone to it, and you could take 3 MDMA pills and be fine (well, not have SS anyway ).

What I'm trying to say is, no one even knows EXACTLY what SS is, it's just a name clumped together with a bunch of negative side effects some people experience while taking SSRI's. The best thing to do regarding these medications is always be aware and always consult with your doctor and inform him of any supplements you may be taking.