^^ I’m not bashing vector since I have never tried it. Just posting my thoughts
So you say it's better than AAS but never used it Bahahaha^^ I’m dont bashing vector since I have never tried it. Just posting my thoughts
What?? I never said thatSo you say it's better than AAS but never used it Bahahaha
See aboveThose are greater gains than someone running a aas cycle. Almost 20lbs of muscle in 12 weeks is impossible natural and barely feasible on a tradiontal aas run (Kickstarter ,rest for 12 weeks,var finisher). People in there first year of training don’t even put on that much mass in a year - a seasoned natural lifter is lucky to gain 2-3lbs a year of muscle.
What part of my statement says that it’s better than a aas run?See above
Bahaha literally your first sentence. Are you being for real right now?What part of my statement says that it’s better than a aas run?
I person I quoted was saying that not me.Bahaha literally your first sentence. Are you being for real right now?
Oh geez. My bad. No wonder. I was so confused.I person I quoted was saying that not me.
Well if you don't eat you will never gain on any cycle or no cycle bro. And if you don't gain, you will never no if said supplement was better than no supplement or the other supplement. Why people take a natural anabolic like Vector and then eat at maintenance or a tiny bit above and then complain they get no gains is beyond me. They are throwing their money away. Personally I am a super easy gainer and i am 51 years old (very very seasoned powerlifter). I can put on 10lbs a month with nothing but clean food and be left with about 6lbs of muscle. If I do it with Vector, I am left with 7-8lbs muscle and reduced body fat which is the icing on the cake. I don't want to gain weight though. I have done these bulks with many supplements over the years and nothing works like Vector imo. Lots of logs of guys that are not afraid to eat making great gains on Vector. The evidence was in a long time ago - nothing has changed.^^ I’m not bashing vector since I have never tried it. Just posting my thoughts
I have ran a cycle where I kept the calories the same for 6 months straight (cycle was 3 months) and still gained 10lbs on the scale and went down 2 pants sizes. But those where steroids - I just don’t see anything natural creating huge mass gains - increased cals will help you build muscle alone , will adding a natural anabolic increase those gains is the true questions. (I have 26 years under the bar so I have tried almost everything)Well if you don't eat you will never gain on any cycle or no cycle bro. And if you don't gain, you will never no if said supplement was better than no supplement or the other supplement. Why people take a natural anabolic like Vector and then eat at maintenance or a tiny bit above and then complain they get no gains is beyond me. They are throwing their money away. Personally I am a super easy gainer and i am 51 years old (very very seasoned powerlifter). I can put on 10lbs a month with nothing but clean food and be left with about 6lbs of muscle. If I do it with Vector, I am left with 7-8lbs muscle and reduced body fat which is the icing on the cake. I don't want to gain weight though. I have done these bulks with many supplements over the years and nothing works like Vector imo. Lots of logs of guys that are not afraid to eat making great gains on Vector. The evidence was in a long time ago - nothing has changed.
You rep a company that sells natural anabolics, so are you saying yours are in question then as well? For example, customer reviews on your natty anabolic taken directly from your website say "cycle like results" and another a 50lb increase in deads over 3 days of starting said supp. I think its safe to say all companies grossly over state claims when it comes to natural anabolics. For the record I do like your predator supp. Gone through many bottles. Not looking to start anything just more of an observation on companies as a whole.I have ran a cycle where I kept the calories the same for 6 months straight (cycle was 3 months) and still gained 10lbs on the scale and went down 2 pants sizes. But those where steroids - I just don’t see anything natural creating huge mass gains - increased cals will help you build muscle alone , will adding a natural anabolic increase those gains is the true questions. (I have 26 years under the bar so I have tried almost everything)
absolutely ZERO chance this happened.. You are not putting on 7-8lbs of muscle in month..Well if you don't eat you will never gain on any cycle or no cycle bro. And if you don't gain, you will never no if said supplement was better than no supplement or the other supplement. Why people take a natural anabolic like Vector and then eat at maintenance or a tiny bit above and then complain they get no gains is beyond me. They are throwing their money away. Personally I am a super easy gainer and i am 51 years old (very very seasoned powerlifter). I can put on 10lbs a month with nothing but clean food and be left with about 6lbs of muscle. If I do it with Vector, I am left with 7-8lbs muscle and reduced body fat which is the icing on the cake. I don't want to gain weight though. I have done these bulks with many supplements over the years and nothing works like Vector imo. Lots of logs of guys that are not afraid to eat making great gains on Vector. The evidence was in a long time ago - nothing has changed.
I have tinkered with this quite a bit and I know lots of people take it at different times.Brundel when taking Follidrone with Vector do you dose 3 caps at workout or doesn't matter?
Well I think I agree with you here but I dont see where I said that anyone is gaining 20lbs of muscle.Those are greater gains than someone running a aas cycle. Almost 20lbs of muscle in 12 weeks is impossible natural and barely feasible on a tradiontal aas run (Kickstarter ,rest for 12 weeks,var finisher). People in there first year of training don’t even put on that much mass in a year - a seasoned natural lifter is lucky to gain 2-3lbs a year of muscle.
Much of this gain is water and glycogen though. Without the aas/ 6 months post I would be surprised if the 10lbs remained.I have ran a cycle where I kept the calories the same for 6 months straight (cycle was 3 months) and still gained 10lbs on the scale and went down 2 pants sizes. But those where steroids - I just don’t see anything natural creating huge mass gains - increased cals will help you build muscle alone , will adding a natural anabolic increase those gains is the true questions. (I have 26 years under the bar so I have tried almost everything)
Well stated.I totally agree with the more calories to see if a natural anabolic works. It's all very well eating 200 cals above maintenance only to discover you are gaining the same weight that you were when you were 200 cals above maintenance without the supp but that's such an incremental increase you cannot blame the supp for not packing on more muscle. Now if you take three guys who start at the same bodyweight, bodyfat etc. give one a placebo, one vector and the third AAS, give them all a 1000 calorie surplus every day then at the end of a month see how the nutrients were utilised. I guarantee with the protein synthesis boosting ability of the AAS the weight gained would have a higher muscle to fat ratio than the placebo group and it would be easier to see if the natural anabolic had similar effects.
I totally agree with you - most supp companies claims are extremely exaggerated and it should stop. But a company and personal statements are 2 totally different beasts.You rep a company that sells natural anabolics, so are you saying yours are in question then as well? For example, customer reviews on your natty anabolic taken directly from your website say "cycle like results" and another a 50lb increase in deads over 3 days of starting said supp. I think its safe to say all companies grossly over state claims when it comes to natural anabolics. For the record I do like your predator supp. Gone through many bottles. Not looking to start anything just more of an observation on companies as a whole.
I’m 6’4 and 250 atm butbsitting at 14%-15%bf atm. Yes I have done a cycle in the past and been training since I was a 19delta at 17 years old.Well I think I agree with you here but I dont see where I said that anyone is gaining 20lbs of muscle.
For sure some is bodyfat. But one to 1+lbs of muscle is possible per week under optimal conditions.
Meaning proper food intake with regard to progressive caloric up titration along with proper ratios of protein to carb to fat and meal timing etc.
Also proper sleep
Proper time off/rest days
Proper post training stretching (ultra important) extreme stretching per DOGGCRAPP philosophy.
Proper hydration.
Proper supplementation. This means utilizing all the right supps (non AAS) . Im a fan of creatine as well. I wrote an ebook recently that will be available soon. IT documents the proper use of BLR supps and ancillary supps for a bulking cycle.
I think the guys who only gain a couple of pounds a year are short changing themselves. Now....if your at or well above your genetic max I dont suspect youll grow this fast. ITs at this point youll need to employ the bigger guns/AAS.
Your ~40 years, 238lbs so unless your 6'4 your probably at or above genetic boundries. Im assuming also that you hahve at least used some AAS.
In this case response will not be as good.
I HIGHLY doubt you would respond at this rate.
The subject I mentioned is 26.
Completely agree with you. However, those statements werent off a board, they were posted by said company on their site to promote a particular supp. In other words, it appears these claims are substantiated by the company. Essentially the same beastI totally agree with you - most supp companies claims are extremely exaggerated and it should stop. But a company and personal statements are 2 totally different beasts.
Hes talking about his personal statements. I for one have never heard him claim anything unbelievable about any natural anabolic. This is one of the board members i respect the most here he doesnt make wild claims about a product just because he reps for the companyCompletely agree with you. However, those statements werent off a board, they were posted by said company on their site to promote a particular supp. In other words, it appears these claims are substantiated by the company. Essentially the same beast
Fair enough, I read it as personal claims from users, thats on me. I have lots of respect for him and the company he reps as well. No disrespect intended whatsoever. Just a good convo. Im just used to reps pushing their own products, its rare for one to agree that their own products dont stand up to the claims made by the company or user feedback. refreshing indeedHes talking about his personal statements. I for one have never heard him claim anything unbelievable about any natural anabolic. This is one of the board members i respect the most here he doesnt make wild claims about a product just because he reps for the company
Again I fully agree here.I have done very well with vector. The strength enhancement is what really stands out for me. But I must say that this should not be used on a caloric deficit or even a mild surplus. My second run I tried 6 weeks on a mild surplus and I would find myself getting cranky and moody if I hadn't had a meal in awhile. The strength wasn't as pronounced either. I know the strength enhancement was real because on my first run I was in a modest surplus and I didn't change any variables from the 2 previous months before my first run, and my strength noticeably increased on vector. Another tip I have is to save one dose of vector for pre-workout. I do a 2/2/2 scheme, and 2 of those are always pre. The difference in my aggression in the gym is worth the pre-workout dose. It definitely has some acute effects though whatever mechanism I am not sure. If you are not taking some pre you are wasting it.
Thank you I always try to be neutral and posts my personal experiencesHes talking about his personal statements. I for one have never heard him claim anything unbelievable about any natural anabolic. This is one of the board members i respect the most here he doesnt make wild claims about a product just because he reps for the company
Thanks for the kind words. I don’t push anything I don’t believe in and only if it’s someone wants. I recommend other people’s products all the time. I’m just a supp and gym junkieFair enough, I read it as personal claims from users, thats on me. I have lots of respect for him and the company he reps as well. No disrespect intended whatsoever. Just a good convo. Im just used to reps pushing their own products, its rare for one to agree that their own products dont stand up to the claims made by the company or user feedback. refreshing indeed
I’ve enjoyed vector so much during my bulk that I wanted to continue using it into my cut. Would that be a waste of product and better saved for a future bulk run again?Again I fully agree here.
VEctor is very good at shuttling glycogen into muscles and nutrients into muscles which is great.....if your eating enough.
If not you will not only not see gains but you will likely go backwards a bit in weight as the body wont have enough calories to fuel new growth.
This is why I keep telling everyone to progressively eat more and more and more.
This is where the magic happens.
Actually no its good for cutting as well because it can really help you to maintain muscle and it tends to reduce blood sugar which is good for fat loss.I’ve enjoyed vector so much during my bulk that I wanted to continue using it into my cut. Would that be a waste of product and better saved for a future bulk run again?
Sounds good! I’m just going to have to figure how to control the massive hunger I get from it. Fat burners may help blunt it down the line but I usually don’t add them in right away.Actually no its good for cutting as well because it can really help you to maintain muscle and it tends to reduce blood sugar which is good for fat loss.
Increased metabolism
Lower blood sugar
More muscle maintained
+
How about follidrone on a cut? I hear people bring it up a lot and swear by it.Actually no its good for cutting as well because it can really help you to maintain muscle and it tends to reduce blood sugar which is good for fat loss.
Increased metabolism
Lower blood sugar
More muscle maintained
+
Might look at FD2 and Letrone for a cut.Sounds good! I’m just going to have to figure how to control the massive hunger I get from it. Fat burners may help blunt it down the line but I usually don’t add them in right away.
I’ve been running FD2 and Letrone during my bulk as well. Was planning on running FD2 on my cut as well. And how you described it is exactly the same way I feel, my body is craving calories. I can eat to the point of being quite full and then a little while later I feel like I haven’t eaten. If I can somehow manage running it during a cut I feel like it could be quite effective.Might look at FD2 and Letrone for a cut.
Personally I can only Bulk or recomp on Vector. (Like you said the hunger. It's more like my body is craving cals. all the time.
Give it a shot. It would be great if you could eat at maintenance you should cut pretty good with the stack you are taking!I’ve been running FD2 and Letrone during my bulk as well. Was planning on running FD2 on my cut as well. And how you described it is exactly the same way I feel, my body is craving calories. I can eat to the point of being quite full and then a little while later I feel like I haven’t eaten. If I can somehow manage running it during a cut I feel like it could be quite effective.
I’m definitely going to go for it since I bought 3 more bottles of each on their cyber Monday sale lol. January is going to be about very minor cut backs (like switching back to fat free milk from whole milk) and implementing just a tiny bit of cardio. This is the biggest I’ve ever been and want my body to adjust to it’s new size before I go full cut mode.Give it a shot. It would be great if you could eat at maintenance you should cut pretty good with the stack you are taking!
I just don't have the will power on Vector to cut calories.
This is me. At my age I workout as an old addiction. I Don't have the diet discipline I use to because I don't want to. I try to eat clean but if someone offers me a cookie I'm probably going to eat it. lol
In the spring I log my diet and try to hit my maintenance numbers. If I fail I don't beat myself up like I use to.
For some Vector doesn't give them the same cravings for calories.
Interesting. I’m finishing up week 7...will see what happens as I get further in.Vector cravings for me subsided completely after about 3 months continued use.
Follidrone is fantastic for a cut. Great at controlling blood sugar, good at helping with fat loss and really helps you hold onto muscle while cutting.How about follidrone on a cut? I hear people bring it up a lot and swear by it.
The hunger is tough while cutting but this hunger comes from an increase in utilization of your calories. Greater protein synthesis, greater glucose uptake into cells etc. If you can manage the hunger vector is great for cutting as well.I’ve been running FD2 and Letrone during my bulk as well. Was planning on running FD2 on my cut as well. And how you described it is exactly the same way I feel, my body is craving calories. I can eat to the point of being quite full and then a little while later I feel like I haven’t eaten. If I can somehow manage running it during a cut I feel like it could be quite effective.
I don't understand why people buy a supplement and then don't utilize it at all. Your paying for it. Use it bro.I'm finishing up week 8 and my weight has been steady at 177, my skinfold measurement on my abdomen is down 4 mm, strength is up slightly and my bg has been a solid 90. I am only eating between 300 and 500 surplus. I do not have the hunger that some report. I will run this for the remainder of my 12 weeks. I am a big fan of blr but I have to admit, I have had better results with fd2 as far as a solo product goes. I started my run with exotherm and vector but dropped the exotherm because I wanted to see what vector did solo in regards to recomp. I guess my midsection being down 4 mm is a plus with my weight remaining steady.
Exactly. If your stalled what is the logical next step. Wait and hope something magically changes? Of course not because it won't.Vector required me to add an extra meal each day just to maintain / re-comp. This alone has had many benefits to overall condition. So many comments about folks (new to training and supplementation and also advanced users) running Vector at a 'surplus' but not gaining weight week after week and they don't adjust their calories. A surplus is only a surplus if your gaining weight.
Preach!!!!Exactly. If your stalled what is the logical next step. Wait and hope something magically changes? Of course not because it won't.
Up cals.
Start increasing weight and reps.
Progressively. Meaning not once per cycle. Absolutely min=weekly changes in food intake and rep/weight lifted.
This is the basic 101 bodybuilding.
Eat to grow.
Any idea how much the Ebooks are going to cost? I just started doggcrapp training for the first time. I just finished my second week. The stretching after body parts is taking some getting used to. Do you find the doggcrapp stretches help with making gains?We have some ebooks coming. One is already done.
1. Supplement guide for muscle growth.
2. Diet
3. Training
You're right B, when I first started using fd2 I was really pushing calories and it really helped, I think I gained a total of 9 pounds and i was able to hold bodyfat around 11%. Fd2 is a very impressive product for me.I don't understand why people buy a supplement and then don't utilize it at all. Your paying for it. Use it bro.
Don't wait for some magic response.
You want to get leaner? Add cardio, cut carbs etc.
You want to get bigger, progressively add calories.
If your not growing at the current calories then your not going to magically start without added cals.
Increase cals another 500.
Start progressively adding weight and reps and cardio etc.
Things will change. The results will be vastly better with vector.
You know these products work. Take advantage bro!
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