Unreal's Guide to Superdrol
- Thread starter UnrealMachine
- Start date
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
my workout split is... pretty irrelevant in this thread... I'll humor you though
M: chest
T: legs
W: back
Th: arms/shoulders
F: keto/cardio
Sat: depletion workout + refeed
Sun: keto/cardio
I seriously train 12-15 sets a day and rarely any more, almost always under 10 reps unless it's an exercise like... CALVES... obviously no thitting my calves for sets of 4 LOL... My favorite ever is probably 3 sets of 6 reps with increasing weight so that you only hit failure on the last set.
My personal training style is completely focused on moving more weight. Interestingly enough I am not strong at all for my size. But this is how i've trained for the last 3 yeras.
abuleh
Member
Anything you would recommend taking on off days? Is it neccessary at all?
TheDarkHalf
Well-known member
So would you go as far to say that the best way to maintain gains from SD would be to use SD as a kick-starter in a bridge/inj cycle? Obviously calories need to increase as weight gain continues to climb and use of PCT products will help as well.
One other thought....does the average SD user see any kind of joint relief while on SD? IE I have golfers elbow right now and am able to train around it, but just can't hit my biceps hard or do any pressing shoulder motions.
One other thought....does the average SD user see any kind of joint relief while on SD? IE I have golfers elbow right now and am able to train around it, but just can't hit my biceps hard or do any pressing shoulder motions.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
Yeah. It's really the same principle as Dbol or anadrol or any oral steroid that provides huge gains in no time. You can't hit PCT the day you get off them, you have to drop off into other anabolics to maintain some of the gains a while longer.
Joint *relief* from Superdrol? No, definitely not. As a "dry" compound that's not going to happen but moreover the only steroids that have a positive impact on joints are nandrolone and EQ (to the best of my knowledge anyway). Gotta be careful with it, especially late on in a cycle if you're hitting 30mg and moving lots of weight. This can be said for any cycle where strength increases a lot though.
tyler4
Active member
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
I haven't looked into Microdrol much but that's only because I read about it once, laughed at it, and moved on.
Basically they are just claiming it is suspended in oils for faster delivery. They try to twist the wording to make it seem like a faster delivery is somehow MORE delivery like it will elicit more gains. No, 10mg of SD is 10mg of SD no matter if your body absorbs it in 5 minutes or 25 minutes.
It has a use, obviously this is what I try to achieve when I emptied out SD pills and stirred them up in olive oil to speed up the absorption. I think it must speed up absorption... At least your stomach acid doesn't have to chew through the capsule... But you can do this yourself.
The problem with Microdrol is it's 120mL, 2mL per 5mg meaning it's got 30 servings of 10mg. Which means that it's 1/3 the product of any 90ct bottle of superdrol. And I haven't looked at the prices because I don't care to buy it but i doubt it's priced any better. To me it just looks like a bunch of marketing and crap so they can charge you more money for less product.
The only reason I had tried to make SD absorbed faster is because i was lifting first thing in the morning and i wanted my hormone hitting me right away. For the people that are looking to create stable blood levels throughout the day, this is a step in the wrong direction.
I see how it would be a better idea for a pulse but to me the product is simply not worth the extra cost. You can blend SD powder into oils yourself and dose it orally and it's NOT VERY HARD... Atomized is a stupid word here because nothing is atomized... Atomization usually means heating something until its vaporized into atoms (Invalid Link Removed)... They are trying to say the molecules are individual so they are absorbed better... If you blend it into oil yourself they will be in clumps. I say whatever.
Basically they are just claiming it is suspended in oils for faster delivery. They try to twist the wording to make it seem like a faster delivery is somehow MORE delivery like it will elicit more gains. No, 10mg of SD is 10mg of SD no matter if your body absorbs it in 5 minutes or 25 minutes.
It has a use, obviously this is what I try to achieve when I emptied out SD pills and stirred them up in olive oil to speed up the absorption. I think it must speed up absorption... At least your stomach acid doesn't have to chew through the capsule... But you can do this yourself.
The problem with Microdrol is it's 120mL, 2mL per 5mg meaning it's got 30 servings of 10mg. Which means that it's 1/3 the product of any 90ct bottle of superdrol. And I haven't looked at the prices because I don't care to buy it but i doubt it's priced any better. To me it just looks like a bunch of marketing and crap so they can charge you more money for less product.
The only reason I had tried to make SD absorbed faster is because i was lifting first thing in the morning and i wanted my hormone hitting me right away. For the people that are looking to create stable blood levels throughout the day, this is a step in the wrong direction.
I see how it would be a better idea for a pulse but to me the product is simply not worth the extra cost. You can blend SD powder into oils yourself and dose it orally and it's NOT VERY HARD... Atomized is a stupid word here because nothing is atomized... Atomization usually means heating something until its vaporized into atoms (Invalid Link Removed)... They are trying to say the molecules are individual so they are absorbed better... If you blend it into oil yourself they will be in clumps. I say whatever.
jbryand101b
Banned
i've looked at the price, havn't seen it under 40$.
thats why i never tried it. i'd rather snort 10mg of my powder sd than pay that much. but it would still be pointless, unless im in the gym, and need it to hit me, right there.
*pictures self in b.r busting open capsules in hand, snorting up sd, walking out b.r with white sht all over nose, like, what?" :32:
thats why i never tried it. i'd rather snort 10mg of my powder sd than pay that much. but it would still be pointless, unless im in the gym, and need it to hit me, right there.
*pictures self in b.r busting open capsules in hand, snorting up sd, walking out b.r with white sht all over nose, like, what?" :32:
tyler4
Active member
I agree that the "faster delivery" isn't something that is extremely beneficial. While it's not a bad thing, I dont see it as cruicial either.
I just figured I'd grab some to give it a try. Plus, unless I'm mistaking, it would make a 15mg dose possible. Since 2ml=5mg. This is something I could use when I pulse it.
I just figured I'd grab some to give it a try. Plus, unless I'm mistaking, it would make a 15mg dose possible. Since 2ml=5mg. This is something I could use when I pulse it.
tyler4
Active member
I cam across this a minute ago. It could be old news or already posted but it seems to explain what most of us already thought when it comes to SD and gyno.
UM, if this clogs up the thread too much let me know and I'll delete.
Invalid Link Removed
Q: Why do people get gyno after a cycle of superdrol? Superdrol is non-aromatizing, so there should be no estrogen problem, right? So is it a progesterone thing or something? Also, do you think a SHBG binder is a good thing post-cycle?
A: Superdrol is 2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol-3-one. It is, like you said, a non-aromatizing steroid. Technically speaking, it is a DHT derivative and it is a very potent compound. It can shut your hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) down quite readily and profoundly.
I don?t believe this post-cycle gyno has anything to do with progesterone, as superdrol does not possess any of the structural characteristics associated with progestational steroids. In all likelihood, the post-cycle gyno is an estrogen-related phenomenon brought on by altered androgen/estrogen balance. During the superdrol cycle, the balance of androgens to estrogens in the body is greatly shifted toward androgens, as you are experiencing suppression of estrogen (secondary to testicular shutdown) while simultaneously having a very strong androgen coursing through your system.
Now, of course everything is fine and dandy with estrogen being suppressed and androgen predominating. But what happens when you stop your cycle? The big problem here has to do with the inhibitory effects of androgens upon estrogen receptor expression and what happens when this effect is suddenly eliminated. I am not talking about androgens blocking estrogen receptors; I am talking about androgens interfering with the ability of estrogens to carry out their signal at the genes themselves. In other words, this is a post-receptor phenomenon.
In the post-cycle period, you experience a precipitous drop in androgen levels and therefore a drop in the suppression of estrogen receptor signaling. Now, even though estrogen levels are very low, you are put into a period of exquisite sensitivity to their actions so it?s still a dangerous time. Of course, this is one reason why people resort to the use of estrogen receptor antagonists such as tamoxifen during this time period (the other reason is to help restore endogenous testosterone production).
But eventually, you have to come off the estrogen blockers. We know from the use of agents such as tamoxifen in breast cancer patients who extend use of them that this can actually lead to estrogen hypersensitivity. So unless you have simultaneously raised your testosterone levels up high enough, you are going to be right back in the same boat. At this point, additional use of an aromatase inhibitor might be wise, as it will allow your testosterone levels to continue to recover while keeping the androgen/estrogen ratio in a healthy range. Once a healthy level of testosterone is achieved, then discontinuation should leave you with a normal endocrine balance and estrogen response.
Anyway, the bottom line here is that these people simply did not follow through with their PCT long enough. They underestimated the suppressive potential of the superdrol. Just because something is over-the-counter does not mean it should not be treated seriously.
Now for the second part of your question. SHBG as you know means sex hormone-binding globulin and it is a protein that circulates around in your system and binds to?well?sex hormones. By sex hormones, we mean androgens and estrogens, and I think this is something a lot of people forget (the estrogen part, that is). So SHBG limits the amount of androgen that is bioavailable (which is undesirable), but at the same time it protects us from being overwhelmed by estrogens.
The good news with SHBG is that it binds testosterone and DHT more tightly than it does estradiol, so testosterone and DHT activity is more sensitive to fluctuations in levels of SHBG. This theoretically may allow us to advantageously manipulate the post-cycle endocrinological milieu through the use of natural substances known to be competitive substrates for SHBG (SHBG binders).
My (and once again this is theoretical) way of best incorporating a SHBG binder into post-cycle therapy might be as follows. You start off with a good dose of a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) such as tamoxifen, which should effectively prevent estrogen receptors from being activated by endogenous estrogens. Then after two or three weeks, you add in an aromatase inhibitor for a week or so after which you drop the SERM and continue on the aromatase inhibitor, along with the SHBG for another two to four weeks.
At this time, you hopefully will have re-established a normal level of testosterone along with normal estrogen receptor sensitivity.
UM, if this clogs up the thread too much let me know and I'll delete.
Invalid Link Removed
Q: Why do people get gyno after a cycle of superdrol? Superdrol is non-aromatizing, so there should be no estrogen problem, right? So is it a progesterone thing or something? Also, do you think a SHBG binder is a good thing post-cycle?
A: Superdrol is 2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol-3-one. It is, like you said, a non-aromatizing steroid. Technically speaking, it is a DHT derivative and it is a very potent compound. It can shut your hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) down quite readily and profoundly.
I don?t believe this post-cycle gyno has anything to do with progesterone, as superdrol does not possess any of the structural characteristics associated with progestational steroids. In all likelihood, the post-cycle gyno is an estrogen-related phenomenon brought on by altered androgen/estrogen balance. During the superdrol cycle, the balance of androgens to estrogens in the body is greatly shifted toward androgens, as you are experiencing suppression of estrogen (secondary to testicular shutdown) while simultaneously having a very strong androgen coursing through your system.
Now, of course everything is fine and dandy with estrogen being suppressed and androgen predominating. But what happens when you stop your cycle? The big problem here has to do with the inhibitory effects of androgens upon estrogen receptor expression and what happens when this effect is suddenly eliminated. I am not talking about androgens blocking estrogen receptors; I am talking about androgens interfering with the ability of estrogens to carry out their signal at the genes themselves. In other words, this is a post-receptor phenomenon.
In the post-cycle period, you experience a precipitous drop in androgen levels and therefore a drop in the suppression of estrogen receptor signaling. Now, even though estrogen levels are very low, you are put into a period of exquisite sensitivity to their actions so it?s still a dangerous time. Of course, this is one reason why people resort to the use of estrogen receptor antagonists such as tamoxifen during this time period (the other reason is to help restore endogenous testosterone production).
But eventually, you have to come off the estrogen blockers. We know from the use of agents such as tamoxifen in breast cancer patients who extend use of them that this can actually lead to estrogen hypersensitivity. So unless you have simultaneously raised your testosterone levels up high enough, you are going to be right back in the same boat. At this point, additional use of an aromatase inhibitor might be wise, as it will allow your testosterone levels to continue to recover while keeping the androgen/estrogen ratio in a healthy range. Once a healthy level of testosterone is achieved, then discontinuation should leave you with a normal endocrine balance and estrogen response.
Anyway, the bottom line here is that these people simply did not follow through with their PCT long enough. They underestimated the suppressive potential of the superdrol. Just because something is over-the-counter does not mean it should not be treated seriously.
Now for the second part of your question. SHBG as you know means sex hormone-binding globulin and it is a protein that circulates around in your system and binds to?well?sex hormones. By sex hormones, we mean androgens and estrogens, and I think this is something a lot of people forget (the estrogen part, that is). So SHBG limits the amount of androgen that is bioavailable (which is undesirable), but at the same time it protects us from being overwhelmed by estrogens.
The good news with SHBG is that it binds testosterone and DHT more tightly than it does estradiol, so testosterone and DHT activity is more sensitive to fluctuations in levels of SHBG. This theoretically may allow us to advantageously manipulate the post-cycle endocrinological milieu through the use of natural substances known to be competitive substrates for SHBG (SHBG binders).
My (and once again this is theoretical) way of best incorporating a SHBG binder into post-cycle therapy might be as follows. You start off with a good dose of a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) such as tamoxifen, which should effectively prevent estrogen receptors from being activated by endogenous estrogens. Then after two or three weeks, you add in an aromatase inhibitor for a week or so after which you drop the SERM and continue on the aromatase inhibitor, along with the SHBG for another two to four weeks.
At this time, you hopefully will have re-established a normal level of testosterone along with normal estrogen receptor sensitivity.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
Yeah that's a good article by PA. The androgen:estrogen ratio is a very good point. It's not something I mentioned because frankly my understanding isn't good enough to explain it. That's an area where I'm still learning. Reading Anabolic Pharmacology has helped me out a bit. I think the bottom line is still valid though, its post cycle estrogen levels causing the "delayed gyno" with SD.
I just wanted to keep the guide simple.
But no this doesn't "clog" the thread at all, it's some good information, let's keep it here.
I just wanted to keep the guide simple.
But no this doesn't "clog" the thread at all, it's some good information, let's keep it here.
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
This is exactly why i dont like nolva.
"We know from the use of agents such as tamoxifen in breast cancer patients who extend use of them that this can actually lead to estrogen hypersensitivity. So unless you have simultaneously raised your testosterone levels up high enough, you are going to be right back in the same boat. At this point, additional use of an aromatase inhibitor might be wise, as it will allow your testosterone levels to continue to recover while keeping the androgen/estrogen ratio in a healthy range. Once a healthy level of testosterone is achieved, then discontinuation should leave you with a normal endocrine balance and estrogen response."
I believe clomid and an AI(used properly) is the best method of pct for SD, in general actually.
Misuse of an AI can cause rebound as well.
Remember, this is my opionion. Not fact.
"We know from the use of agents such as tamoxifen in breast cancer patients who extend use of them that this can actually lead to estrogen hypersensitivity. So unless you have simultaneously raised your testosterone levels up high enough, you are going to be right back in the same boat. At this point, additional use of an aromatase inhibitor might be wise, as it will allow your testosterone levels to continue to recover while keeping the androgen/estrogen ratio in a healthy range. Once a healthy level of testosterone is achieved, then discontinuation should leave you with a normal endocrine balance and estrogen response."
I believe clomid and an AI(used properly) is the best method of pct for SD, in general actually.
Misuse of an AI can cause rebound as well.
Remember, this is my opionion. Not fact.
tyler4
Active member
Unreal-I have Seth's book as well. It's def a nice tool for learning.
Kristofer-I think when makes the breast cancer patient statement, he is refering to use that's probably well over 4 weeks. I could be wrong though.
I like the PCT of Nolva + test booster, and an AI starting week 3.
When I run my SD pulse I will be doing an on cycle hormone test. This will help in compiling a better PCT I think.
Kristofer-I think when makes the breast cancer patient statement, he is refering to use that's probably well over 4 weeks. I could be wrong though.
I like the PCT of Nolva + test booster, and an AI starting week 3.
When I run my SD pulse I will be doing an on cycle hormone test. This will help in compiling a better PCT I think.
tyler4
Active member
6 weeks of what? SD?
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
Nolva can increase progesterone receptor activity. Its not duration that is the problem its overstimulation of the PGr.
tyler4
Active member
I may be getting in over my head here but I'll give it a shot, lol. According to Seth the whole "Nolva increases PGR activity" is kinda iffy. He even suggests using Nova during a cycle of Tren/19-nor to prevent gyno. I think I remember him saying that the overstimulation was very very minor and only occured very early upon dosing.
Again, I could be remembering wrong here so..
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
Okay.
Alot of theory here for sure. Why risk it, though?
Clomid FTW.
Also, for true progesterone type gyno, nolva will not help. The usual approach is to just lower E with an AI.
Edit- And/or they use Caber aka Dostinex, P5P, L-dopa, and the likes.
I have been down this road, hours and hours(days actually) of discussion and research.
I still dont know why everyone insists on Nolva. Garbage IMO.
tyler4
Active member
metroba
Legend
tyler4
Active member
missed the part about the pulse
Ha! My body/liver has ever done anything to deserve 6 weeks worth of SD!
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
maybe i should clarify that lol.. you start PCT when you get off the last oral
jwick77
New member
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
I've never experienced hypoglycemia in my life. It's the way my body handles carbs.... Not very well I should say, i don't seem to need them either. So i've been in full-on keto w/ SD a bunch of times and never noticed anything wrong or any lack of energy... My body goes into ketosis real well, i can't tell any difference at all.
I've tried a high carb diet with SD because of its carbohydrate shuttling effects but high carbs make me get fat and high carbs with SD made me get fat even faster than usual. It seems like I retained even more of them but somehow it all turned into fat and bloat anyway. For all these reasons, I don't include a lot of carbs in my diet now.
I only read of it occurring in other people, people whose metabolisms depend on carbohydrates more than mine. I don't know what it is with me but a diet composed of just fat and protein works far better than traditional diet with a larger carbohydrate component. I had started to buy into the blood-type diet which states that blood type O (myself) has a system better adapted to processing meats and has difficulty with some grains, which explains myself perfectly but most of my friends laugh at the correlation w/ bloodtype so i dunno. I've always wondered if i could accumulate more info on this and see if other type O's do well with ketosis and gain fat on high-carb diets.
TheDarkHalf
Well-known member
I'm curious - how high was your carb intake, what kind of carbs were you eating (I know you're spot on with diet, i'm just curious anyways), and when were you eating them when you ran SD with carbs.
tyler4
Active member
Cool. I think we tolerate carbs somewhat the same. They make me blow up fast but when I drop them, BF seems to melt off.
I'm planning on a CKD diet for my SD pulse. Should make for a good recomp.
Edit-I just read the blood type thing. I dont know mine but I'll check on it.
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
I had carbs in every meal about 1:1 with protein. The goal was the 40/40/20 macro breakdown. I think that's the classic bulking macros, I've used it before in 2006-2007 when i bulked naturally from 20x to 240ish when I got back into weightlifting, def. gained a lot of muscle but i'd say bf went from 15%-18% during that time period ~9months.
Attempting this again starting from 10% bodyfat and with SD seemed to cause an even faster increase in bodyfat, I think the SD was causing me to simply retain more and my bodyfat, being so much below my natural equilibrium, left me disposed towards putting on fat again easily.
DenDestroys
Member
What do you think about keeping carbs high on just workout days and then lower on off days by about half? Even on workout days carbs only account for about 30% of macros. 20-25% on off. I normally worry about keeping carbs low because I see a lot of people say the muscle cannot properly repair itself without the help of carbs. I notice some letting carbs make up 50-60% of their total macros.
wolverines
Member
When you start the AI at week 3, do you run it inversely to the nolva or just start at the normal dosage and taper down?
tyler4
Active member
UnrealMachine
Well-known member
Makes sense to me. On my days where I don't lift, i go full keto.
I think regarding carb intake & SD, users will just have to find what works for them, because carb tolerance varies a lot, some people will surely benefit from high carbs on SD a lot more than people like me.
TheDarkHalf
Well-known member
Right on. So you really think it was the excess carbs on SD that made you fat...or the excess cals? I mean at the end of the day it's a numbers game...if you're eating too much (for your body type) you'll get fat.
I used to think that carbs made me fat as $hit too. But on the weekends I eat close to all of my cals from carbs....mainly eating fat free stuff and the protein will add up from the milk I drink and such. But i've also done keto as well. Again I think any diet will work if structured accordingly for muscle gain or fat loss.
wolverines
Member
Thanks man sounds good.
alwaysgaining
Well-known member
i would add to the delayd gyno, its from nonaromitizing compounds because of your bodys response to nothing geting convertd to estrogens the body increases the aromataze eynsyme. thus when your test gets back pumpin it is fastly converted to estrogens
gyno rebound is from ending your AI run on a high dose. like your last week u just dead stop. instd of tapering down
deadikated
Member
The idea of running a product post PCT is kind of interesting. Would you say running something like Reversitol after a Nolva + Random Test booster + possibly cort blocker PCT be a good choice? Are there any specific products you would suggest for something like this?
I was thinking of doing the SD + Epi bridge you mentioned when I read this and thought it might be something nice to try. Never can be too careful when it comes to damn bitch tits!
I was thinking of doing the SD + Epi bridge you mentioned when I read this and thought it might be something nice to try. Never can be too careful when it comes to damn bitch tits!
luclyluciano
Well-known member
I know this a little off topic but this probably best place to get my question noticed. I am going in for hernia surgery Feb 18th but want to continue training and need a boost. Any harm doing a once or twice a week pulse till say the 1st week of Feb or is blood pressure a concern?
Brucetheduck
New member
All I've got to say is thanks for posting this, good info to consider here.
suncloud
Well-known member
so its about as good as cell-tech hardcore's 7 pounds in 7 days? :thinking: