The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.Haven't used ArA, may have to
The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.Haven't used ArA, may have to
interestingThe duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
It's the worst DOMS you've ever had. However thats part of its MOA and a sure sign its working.interesting
...........
My knees got so bad when I ran it I stopped squatting, never again. I thought Erase Pro was rough on my joints but this was another level.The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
I think you should...I love me some ArA. As mentioned the DOMS can be intense and some notice headaches, joint pain, etc. but I find those can usually be countered or not too bad overall. I feel bad for people who get it bad and can't use it.Haven't used ArA, may have to
BioForge V3 is a good product. Got to love some Agmatine. Solid looking stack there.SNS Focus XT
SNS Agmatine
SNS Cissus XT
Biotivia BioForge v3
USP Labs Anabolic Pump
CL Green Bulge
CL Orange Triad
Haleo Aqua Red
I've always enjoyed my run with AppNut IGF-2, size & strength, and I notice increased vascularity in the upper chest and shoulders. Recently I ran it with X-Factor and that was excellent, gained 6 lbs over 2 months while doing increased endurance training.Oh I see it isn't now , I wonder how much Rhodiola is in it...or L-dopa...could be nice IMO. I'll try it out.
The placebo is strong in this one.I've always enjoyed my run with AppNut IGF-2, size & strength, and I notice increased vascularity in the upper chest and shoulders.
If it's your first time running erase I'd suggest sticking to OG erase as which comes in 25mg which you take 3 times a day, whereas the erase pro contains the full 75mg in one capsule which makes it more difficult to adjust if the 75mg starts to give you joint pain (a common complaint). Also, not sure whether you meant OG Anabeta or ABE since you mention both, but if you are planning to bulk OG Anabeta is more suited, where as ABE is more for a recomp (haven't tried ABE yet only OG, just repeating what I've heard), as the hunger effects are apparently less pronounced with ABE.Guys first of all I cant thank you all enough for the feedback you have provided. I will admit that though I have been training for a long time I have never really gotten into the supplements like these. My staples have always been creatine mono, mega dose bcaas, and anabolic pump. I used DAA + Powerfull on my last bulk and I feel that it was pretty effective for me.
Your feedback and my research kind of boils down to the following being probably the my best options:
anabeta elite + erase pro +daa
or
Ara (with supports) stand alone or maybe with DAA
Seems like both of these stacks are very well liked but would probably yield similar responses (unless I am a non responded to either).
I like the idea of keeping the stacks a little simpler so I can see what is or isnt working, unless there is an obvious addition that would add proven results and would simply be silly no to include.
Since Ara is a shorter run could something like this be done in your opinions?
week 1-4 ara w/ supports
week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta
Basically ara for 8 weeks overlap the DAA for the middle 4+4 weeks and erase anabeta for the second 8 weeks with DAA being the overlap?
Bottom line is I am getting way to anxious about this and Im thinking waay too much about it. I just want to maximize my potential over 16 weeks and it makes me very anxious thinking I might be short changing myself gains by choosing one over the other or not including something.
Im sure some of you bros feel the same way sometimes? Again I appreciate all your help out dudes. I really like this forum, people here are so eager to help out with inof.
week 1-4 ara w/ supports
week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta
Both are doable and Daxter had some great suggestions. I am a big fan of staggering things over a longer time rather than throwing them all in at once and think both ideas look pretty good and Daxter's layout with DAA in week 10 would be a great way to go IMO.My suggestion would be to run:
week 1-8 ara w/ supports
week 8-12 erase + anabeta
week 12-16 erase + anabeta +DAA
You could always add the DAA earlier, say week 10, depending upon how the anabeta and erase are effecting you.
Both are doable and Daxter had some great suggestions. I am a big fan of staggering things over a longer time rather than throwing them all in at once and think both ideas look pretty good and Daxter's layout with DAA in week 10 would be a great way to go IMO.
I personally like ArA for 4-6 weeks at a high dose (1.5-2g pre-workout only on training days).
No you don't have to consume more calories on the supps you plan on taking. They may however make you feel hungrier. ABE has had this effect on many. Which isn't a bad thing .Bolt thanks for all your feedback dude you have been very helpful. So am I safe in assuming that if planning on doing an xfactor run followed by a anabeta elite / erase pro run id be better off stacking the daa with the abe / erase run and leave the xfactor as a standalone? Just wondering if one stack was better to have the DAA run alongside with than the other. Thanks again man
Second question everyone keeps saying that on these supps you have to eat more etc. If I am lean bulking with a 500 calories surplus which is my sweet spot for gaining and minimizing fat, the recommendation to increase my surplus. I guess I dont see how a supplement would affect the amount of calories that one should be in surplus for a bulk unless its not natural?
Thanks fellas
I would much rather create a few stacks with all of that stuff, more does not always equal better. You can only grow so much, say 10lbs in a month After a point you have diminishing returns no matter what you are running. Create a stack and go with it for 6-8 weeks, take a month off from the extras but keep the staple going, then go with the next stack for 6-8 weeks.I am shooting to do all this
Erase Pro
Anabeta Elite
Alphamine
Need2slin
Gear
Compound 20
Prime
PowerFULL
Versa-1
Super Cissus
Testo patch
Power patch trippled
6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
Vitalizer
Workout maximizer
Amino patches 3 times a day
Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
Sorry missed this the other day.Bolt thanks for all your feedback dude you have been very helpful. So am I safe in assuming that if planning on doing an xfactor run followed by a anabeta elite / erase pro run id be better off stacking the daa with the abe / erase run and leave the xfactor as a standalone? Just wondering if one stack was better to have the DAA run alongside with than the other. Thanks again man
Second question everyone keeps saying that on these supps you have to eat more etc. If I am lean bulking with a 500 calories surplus which is my sweet spot for gaining and minimizing fat, the recommendation to increase my surplus. I guess I dont see how a supplement would affect the amount of calories that one should be in surplus for a bulk unless its not natural?
Thanks fellas
Remember lot of those are single ingredient products at a clinical dose so I am not to worried.I would much rather create a few stacks with all of that stuff, more does not always equal better. You can only grow so much, say 10lbs in a month After a point you have diminishing returns no matter what you are running. Create a stack and go with it for 6-8 weeks, take a month off from the extras but keep the staple going, then go with the next stack for 6-8 weeks.
Wow. Please tell me your going to run a log!!!I'll be running this all summer...
Erase Pro
Test Powder
Anabeta Elite
Enhanced
Alphamine
Anabolic Pump
Endosurge
SNS Bulbine
ModernBCAA
Compound 20
Prime
PowerFULL
Versa-1
Super Cissus
SNS MCC
Aminos, workout maximizer, vitalizer, power patch electrolytes, Gplc, agmintne, ba,cc and need to slin super c would be year round and the rest could be 3 months on 3 off etc but pretty much my staples are as Categorized pre, post vitamins, minerals, fish and antioxidants.I am shooting to do all this
Erase Pro
Anabeta Elite
Alphamine
Need2slin
Gear
Compound 20
Prime
PowerFULL
Versa-1
Super Cissus
Testo patch
Power patch trippled
6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
Vitalizer
Workout maximizer
Amino patches 3 times a day
Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
For general health:i love this thread but i really wonder what an ultimate natty stack would look like for a "non-bodybuilder" - for someone just looking to maximize health?
i'm not saying bodybuilding isn't healthy, i just have severe health issues and exercising beyond my basic life routine actually makes things worse, so i'm looking to increase my well-being as much as possible without taxing or compromising my already compromised body.
you're right, the kitchen sink approach has its pros and cons. i've tried to do everything with just diet, and i'm talking about eating offal like a french chef, everything grass fed pasture raised, highest quality ingredients prepared in the right ways - i studied food nutrition for 5+ years trying to eat how humans would have eaten before the industrial era. it helped me a lot, but i'm still under the gun of adrenal fatigue and associated problems. i felt really good last summer, but i was getting tons of sunlight and taking quite a few "bodybuilding supps".For general health:
Multivitamin (Orange Triad or MVP + ZMK)
Fish Oil
ALCAR
Vit C
Vit D3
CoQ10
Specific problems
Cissus if you have joint problems
Echinacea if you have immune system problems, great for preventing colds
Digestive enzymes can be useful if you get problems with bloat or other intestinal issues
A sleep formula like REM PM can be beneficial if you have problems with fatigue or trouble sleeping
L-dopa is also very useful for those with sleep based fatigue problems
A GDA (ie SlinSane, Slintensity etc) can also be very useful if you are sensitive to carbs, ie fat gain or post meal fatigue
Beyond the basics it really depends on your specific health issues, as the kitchen sink approach could create more problems than it solves, as we all react differently to individual supplements.
May be a stupid question but did you try taking Gluten out of your diet? I am quite susceptible to carbs and the fatigue they can bring and I found that switching to gluten free reduced that greatly.you're right, the kitchen sink approach has its pros and cons. i've tried to do everything with just diet, and i'm talking about eating offal like a french chef, everything grass fed pasture raised, highest quality ingredients prepared in the right ways - i studied food nutrition for 5+ years trying to eat how humans would have eaten before the industrial era. it helped me a lot, but i'm still under the gun of adrenal fatigue and associated problems. i felt really good last summer, but i was getting tons of sunlight and taking quite a few "bodybuilding supps".
i'm now wondering whether i can mimic that level of health and just NOT workout, because working out actually caused me to deplete my reserves and by the time winter came along i wasn't prepared. now i'm paying for it.
oh ya i've been GF for a long whileMay be a stupid question but did you try taking Gluten out of your diet? I am quite susceptible to carbs and the fatigue they can bring and I found that switching to gluten free reduced that greatly.
Also, if you are having problems with adrenal fatigue you may want to check out Southland Performance Revamp. It's designed to improve stimulant sensitivity after heavy stim cycles, ie fat burners, but it may be worth a try as it seems to be angled towards repairing the stimulant's negative effects on the adrenal gland. I personally haven't tried it yet, but I did pick up a bottle in my last order, for $10 it's worth a try.
nutraplanet.com/product/southland-performance-products/revamp-60-caps.html
You forgot to add the kitchen sink.I am shooting to do all this
Erase Pro
Anabeta Elite
Alphamine
Need2slin
Gear
Compound 20
Prime
PowerFULL
Versa-1
Super Cissus
Testo patch
Power patch trippled
6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
Vitalizer
Workout maximizer
Amino patches 3 times a day
Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
Too many proven products to use before I jump on something unproven. I remember the original Tropinol ads about it being the greatest ever . . . if it was sooooo effective why was it COMPLETELY reformulated?Tropinol XP would definitely have its place in the best natural stack now..
Excited for potent doses of exogenous testosterone boosters than that pretty big dose of potassium nitrate. Stacked with Hemavol and some ArA, that could be absolutely epic pumps.
Be sure to check out this killer deal - Tropinol for about $15 less than getting it individually, as well as a full bottle of Intimidate and Dexaprine samples. The best $37.99 you'll ever spend.
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/iforce-nutrition/the-tropinol-xp-triumph-stack-bundle-stack.html
The original Tropinol was something that I'm not incredibly familiar with (I just joined the iForce Team today, as a matter of fact), but it was one of the first products to utilize Bulbine and was a very unique and effective formula. One of the problems that I would assume were associated with the original formula was that Bulbine requires a very specific dose related to subjective individual parameters (weight, among others) for it to be truly effective at manipulating hormones in an ideal way for the purposes of a lifter (too much and too little produce relatively unfavorable results). During my previous rep gig with SNS, we noticed this narrow(er) window of dosing for Bulbine during logs of our own product. While it was a great formula, successful companies obviously keep their crown jewels up to date with the latest findings and modify them in ways suitable to maintaining their supremacy, and refining them for optimal performance for a wide variety of individuals, in their respective nichés.Too many proven products to use before I jump on something unproven. I remember the original Tropinol ads about it being the greatest ever . . . if it was sooooo effective why was it COMPLETELY reformulated?
I'll stick with the proven Anabeta/DAA/Erase stack for a nice 8 weeker for some nice lean gains.
That would stack nice. The forskolin in core test and anabeta elite may be more then you need but other then that you'll be goodIf running a ABE / Erase Pro / DAA cycle would it be retarded to use Core Test as source of DAA? Would it be overkill anti E with the EP? Cant post links to its profile but each serving contains:
-4 g of sodium D-aspartic acid-75 mg of 3-desoxy, 7-keto DHEA
-300 mg of Coleus forskohlii root extract (20% forskolin)
-1500 IU of vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)