FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
Unlimited budget...build your ideal natty stack
- Thread starter Darkhorse192
- Start date
The duration of post workout muscle soreness while on was enough to nearly turn me off from running it again.
BPjohn123
Well-known member
dtrain13
Well-known member
It's the worst DOMS you've ever had. However thats part of its MOA and a sure sign its working.
xhrr
Well-known member
My knees got so bad when I ran it I stopped squatting, never again. I thought Erase Pro was rough on my joints but this was another level.
It gets awesome reviews so I'm kinda bummed but I'll take pain free squats over any supplement.
bolt10
Well-known member
I think you should...I love me some ArA. As mentioned the DOMS can be intense and some notice headaches, joint pain, etc. but I find those can usually be countered or not too bad overall. I feel bad for people who get it bad and can't use it.
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
BioForge V3 is a good product. Got to love some Agmatine. Solid looking stack there.
p5sky
Well-known member
Oh I see it isn't now, I wonder how much Rhodiola is in it...or L-dopa...could be nice IMO. I'll try it out.
I've always enjoyed my run with AppNut IGF-2, size & strength, and I notice increased vascularity in the upper chest and shoulders. Recently I ran it with X-Factor and that was excellent, gained 6 lbs over 2 months while doing increased endurance training.
FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
The placebo is strong in this one.
Daxter
Member
After I get the ok to lift again (had shoulder surgery) I'm running:
Anabeta
Endosurge
Erase
Prometheus Rising
Agmatine
Orange Triad
Oximega Fish Oil
Creatine blend
REM PM
ZMK
Achilles
Condense or Biocharge for pre
yes, I have been hoarding for a while...
The only other things I considered adding were Prime, Versa-1, X-Factor, Natadrol or T-force, but I haven't had a chance to try any of these yet so it would have been hard to gauge their worth in such a large stack first time around
Anabeta
Endosurge
Erase
Prometheus Rising
Agmatine
Orange Triad
Oximega Fish Oil
Creatine blend
REM PM
ZMK
Achilles
Condense or Biocharge for pre
yes, I have been hoarding for a while...
The only other things I considered adding were Prime, Versa-1, X-Factor, Natadrol or T-force, but I haven't had a chance to try any of these yet so it would have been hard to gauge their worth in such a large stack first time around
Darkhorse192
Well-known member
Guys first of all I cant thank you all enough for the feedback you have provided. I will admit that though I have been training for a long time I have never really gotten into the supplements like these. My staples have always been creatine mono, mega dose bcaas, and anabolic pump. I used DAA + Powerfull on my last bulk and I feel that it was pretty effective for me.
Your feedback and my research kind of boils down to the following being probably the my best options:
anabeta elite + erase pro +daa
or
Ara (with supports) stand alone or maybe with DAA
Seems like both of these stacks are very well liked but would probably yield similar responses (unless I am a non responded to either).
I like the idea of keeping the stacks a little simpler so I can see what is or isnt working, unless there is an obvious addition that would add proven results and would simply be silly no to include.
Since Ara is a shorter run could something like this be done in your opinions?
week 1-4 ara w/ supports
week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta
Basically ara for 8 weeks overlap the DAA for the middle 4+4 weeks and erase anabeta for the second 8 weeks with DAA being the overlap?
Bottom line is I am getting way to anxious about this and Im thinking waay too much about it. I just want to maximize my potential over 16 weeks and it makes me very anxious thinking I might be short changing myself gains by choosing one over the other or not including something.
Im sure some of you bros feel the same way sometimes? Again I appreciate all your help out dudes. I really like this forum, people here are so eager to help out with inof.
Your feedback and my research kind of boils down to the following being probably the my best options:
anabeta elite + erase pro +daa
or
Ara (with supports) stand alone or maybe with DAA
Seems like both of these stacks are very well liked but would probably yield similar responses (unless I am a non responded to either).
I like the idea of keeping the stacks a little simpler so I can see what is or isnt working, unless there is an obvious addition that would add proven results and would simply be silly no to include.
Since Ara is a shorter run could something like this be done in your opinions?
week 1-4 ara w/ supports
week 4-8 ara w supports + DAA
week 8-12 DAA + erase pro + anabeta
week 8-16 erase pro +anabeta
Basically ara for 8 weeks overlap the DAA for the middle 4+4 weeks and erase anabeta for the second 8 weeks with DAA being the overlap?
Bottom line is I am getting way to anxious about this and Im thinking waay too much about it. I just want to maximize my potential over 16 weeks and it makes me very anxious thinking I might be short changing myself gains by choosing one over the other or not including something.
Im sure some of you bros feel the same way sometimes? Again I appreciate all your help out dudes. I really like this forum, people here are so eager to help out with inof.
Daxter
Member
If it's your first time running erase I'd suggest sticking to OG erase as which comes in 25mg which you take 3 times a day, whereas the erase pro contains the full 75mg in one capsule which makes it more difficult to adjust if the 75mg starts to give you joint pain (a common complaint). Also, not sure whether you meant OG Anabeta or ABE since you mention both, but if you are planning to bulk OG Anabeta is more suited, where as ABE is more for a recomp (haven't tried ABE yet only OG, just repeating what I've heard), as the hunger effects are apparently less pronounced with ABE.
Running ARA into Anabeta and erase shouldn't be a problem, but running the DAA in between may not be the best idea if you really want to judge the effects of the erase and anabeta, as the muscle fullness and hardness from the DAA will mask the fullness and hardness Anabeta and erase give you, making it harder to see their true effects. Also, running hormonal based supps for 12weeks may be stretching it a little, as the general guideline seems to be 8 weeks before a 4 week break.
My suggestion would be to run:
week 1-8 ara w/ supports
week 8-12 erase + anabeta
week 12-16 erase + anabeta +DAA
You could always add the DAA earlier, say week 10, depending upon how the anabeta and erase are effecting you.
bolt10
Well-known member
Both are doable and Daxter had some great suggestions. I am a big fan of staggering things over a longer time rather than throwing them all in at once and think both ideas look pretty good and Daxter's layout with DAA in week 10 would be a great way to go IMO.
I personally like ArA for 4-6 weeks at a high dose (1.5-2g pre-workout only on training days).
Darkhorse192
Well-known member
Bolt thanks for all your feedback dude you have been very helpful. So am I safe in assuming that if planning on doing an xfactor run followed by a anabeta elite / erase pro run id be better off stacking the daa with the abe / erase run and leave the xfactor as a standalone? Just wondering if one stack was better to have the DAA run alongside with than the other. Thanks again man
Second question everyone keeps saying that on these supps you have to eat more etc. If I am lean bulking with a 500 calories surplus which is my sweet spot for gaining and minimizing fat, the recommendation to increase my surplus. I guess I dont see how a supplement would affect the amount of calories that one should be in surplus for a bulk unless its not natural?
Thanks fellas
kbayne
Legend
No you don't have to consume more calories on the supps you plan on taking. They may however make you feel hungrier. ABE has had this effect on many. Which isn't a bad thing
.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
I am shooting to do all this
Erase Pro
Anabeta Elite
Alphamine
Need2slin
Gear
Compound 20
Prime
PowerFULL
Versa-1
Super Cissus
Testo patch
Power patch trippled
6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
Vitalizer
Workout maximizer
Amino patches 3 times a day
Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
Erase Pro
Anabeta Elite
Alphamine
Need2slin
Gear
Compound 20
Prime
PowerFULL
Versa-1
Super Cissus
Testo patch
Power patch trippled
6 grams pre Gplc 2 grams agmintne 3 grams ba con cret, gms, electrolytes and peptides
Vitalizer
Workout maximizer
Amino patches 3 times a day
Crotomax and flavomax orac of 8000 combined.
p5sky
Well-known member
I would much rather create a few stacks with all of that stuff, more does not always equal better. You can only grow so much, say 10lbs in a month
After a point you have diminishing returns no matter what you are running. Create a stack and go with it for 6-8 weeks, take a month off from the extras but keep the staple going, then go with the next stack for 6-8 weeks.
bolt10
Well-known member
Sorry missed this the other day.
1) I'd use the DAA with ABE/Erase. Awesome combo. ArA with the proper supports is very effective already and best to try it without too much extra the first time. I don't usually even add much too it when I run it as it gives me great results based on what I look for out of it.
2) You seem to have a good idea what you are doing so I wouldn't really suggest adding more at the beginning. After a week or two you sould be able to tell if you need more/less, but I wouldn't take it as a have to kind of situation. Just adjust how you normally would IMO, but be mindful that some recomp may take place if you wonder why weight isn't going up as usual.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
I would much rather create a few stacks with all of that stuff, more does not always equal better. You can only grow so much, say 10lbs in a month
Remember lot of those are single ingredient products at a clinical dose so I am not to worried.
Over half is my Staple.
ironwiz
Member
dsohei
Member
i love this thread but i really wonder what an ultimate natty stack would look like for a "non-bodybuilder" - for someone just looking to maximize health?
i'm not saying bodybuilding isn't healthy, i just have severe health issues and exercising beyond my basic life routine actually makes things worse, so i'm looking to increase my well-being as much as possible without taxing or compromising my already compromised body.
i'm not saying bodybuilding isn't healthy, i just have severe health issues and exercising beyond my basic life routine actually makes things worse, so i'm looking to increase my well-being as much as possible without taxing or compromising my already compromised body.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
Aminos, workout maximizer, vitalizer, power patch electrolytes, Gplc, agmintne, ba,cc and need to slin super c would be year round and the rest could be 3 months on 3 off etc but pretty much my staples are as Categorized pre, post vitamins, minerals, fish and antioxidants.
Daxter
Member
For general health:
Multivitamin (Orange Triad or MVP + ZMK)
Fish Oil
ALCAR
Vit C
Vit D3
CoQ10
Specific problems
Cissus if you have joint problems
Echinacea if you have immune system problems, great for preventing colds
Digestive enzymes can be useful if you get problems with bloat or other intestinal issues
A sleep formula like REM PM can be beneficial if you have problems with fatigue or trouble sleeping
L-dopa is also very useful for those with sleep based fatigue problems
A GDA (ie SlinSane, Slintensity etc) can also be very useful if you are sensitive to carbs, ie fat gain or post meal fatigue
Beyond the basics it really depends on your specific health issues, as the kitchen sink approach could create more problems than it solves, as we all react differently to individual supplements.
TyMan14
Active member
Cutting: Alphamine, TTA, Shift, Lean Xtreme (I ran this without the Lean Xtreme and it was incredible! I ran Lean Xtreme before and can only imagine what it could bring to the table with that lineup. Ive still got a bottle of Alphamine and a month supply of TTA. I might have to try it...)
Bulking: Solid Preworkout like Condense or Craze, digestive aid so I dont feel too crappy, a good GDA because Im rather carb sensitive and a former fat boy. Beta Alanine, Creatine, Multi, Fish Oil, etc. And a solid ecdy product like the Iforce ecdy. I know it takes a lot of hate and whatnot, but I find it helps keep fat gains down and increases vascularity for me. I like to keep it fairly simple even in my "Ultimate" stack.
Bulking: Solid Preworkout like Condense or Craze, digestive aid so I dont feel too crappy, a good GDA because Im rather carb sensitive and a former fat boy. Beta Alanine, Creatine, Multi, Fish Oil, etc. And a solid ecdy product like the Iforce ecdy. I know it takes a lot of hate and whatnot, but I find it helps keep fat gains down and increases vascularity for me. I like to keep it fairly simple even in my "Ultimate" stack.
dsohei
Member
you're right, the kitchen sink approach has its pros and cons. i've tried to do everything with just diet, and i'm talking about eating offal like a french chef, everything grass fed pasture raised, highest quality ingredients prepared in the right ways - i studied food nutrition for 5+ years trying to eat how humans would have eaten before the industrial era. it helped me a lot, but i'm still under the gun of adrenal fatigue and associated problems. i felt really good last summer, but i was getting tons of sunlight and taking quite a few "bodybuilding supps".
i'm now wondering whether i can mimic that level of health and just NOT workout, because working out actually caused me to deplete my reserves and by the time winter came along i wasn't prepared. now i'm paying for it.
Daxter
Member
May be a stupid question but did you try taking Gluten out of your diet? I am quite susceptible to carbs and the fatigue they can bring and I found that switching to gluten free reduced that greatly.
Also, if you are having problems with adrenal fatigue you may want to check out Southland Performance Revamp. It's designed to improve stimulant sensitivity after heavy stim cycles, ie fat burners, but it may be worth a try as it seems to be angled towards repairing the stimulant's negative effects on the adrenal gland. I personally haven't tried it yet, but I did pick up a bottle in my last order, for $10 it's worth a try.
nutraplanet.com/product/southland-performance-products/revamp-60-caps.html
dsohei
Member
oh ya i've been GF for a long while
thanks for that link, it's interesting because i respond very well to all dopamine precursors (1-carboxy, mucuna, L-PA/DL-PA, PEA, Tyro, NALT) and very badly to all serotonin amplifiers, i dont know what this means other than that my hpa axis is whacked out, as it has been since i was an infant (hence the adrenal issues, hypothryoid, andropause, etc, it's all interconnected)
UncleWade
Active member
Tropinol XP would definitely have its place in the best natural stack now..
Excited for potent doses of exogenous testosterone boosters than that pretty big dose of potassium nitrate. Stacked with Hemavol and some ArA, that could be absolutely epic pumps.
Be sure to check out this killer deal - Tropinol for about $15 less than getting it individually, as well as a full bottle of Intimidate and Dexaprine samples. The best $37.99 you'll ever spend.
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Excited for potent doses of exogenous testosterone boosters than that pretty big dose of potassium nitrate. Stacked with Hemavol and some ArA, that could be absolutely epic pumps.
Be sure to check out this killer deal - Tropinol for about $15 less than getting it individually, as well as a full bottle of Intimidate and Dexaprine samples. The best $37.99 you'll ever spend.
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boogyman
Active member
You forgot to add the kitchen sink.
p5sky
Well-known member
Tropinol XP would definitely have its place in the best natural stack now..
Excited for potent doses of exogenous testosterone boosters than that pretty big dose of potassium nitrate. Stacked with Hemavol and some ArA, that could be absolutely epic pumps.
Be sure to check out this killer deal - Tropinol for about $15 less than getting it individually, as well as a full bottle of Intimidate and Dexaprine samples. The best $37.99 you'll ever spend.
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Too many proven products to use before I jump on something unproven. I remember the original Tropinol ads about it being the greatest ever . . . if it was sooooo effective why was it COMPLETELY reformulated?
I'll stick with the proven Anabeta/DAA/Erase stack for a nice 8 weeker for some nice lean gains.
UncleWade
Active member
The original Tropinol was something that I'm not incredibly familiar with (I just joined the iForce Team today, as a matter of fact), but it was one of the first products to utilize Bulbine and was a very unique and effective formula. One of the problems that I would assume were associated with the original formula was that Bulbine requires a very specific dose related to subjective individual parameters (weight, among others) for it to be truly effective at manipulating hormones in an ideal way for the purposes of a lifter (too much and too little produce relatively unfavorable results). During my previous rep gig with SNS, we noticed this narrow(er) window of dosing for Bulbine during logs of our own product. While it was a great formula, successful companies obviously keep their crown jewels up to date with the latest findings and modify them in ways suitable to maintaining their supremacy, and refining them for optimal performance for a wide variety of individuals, in their respective nichés.
All the stops were pulled out on the newest version to allow it to shine compared to some of our other great formulae like Testabolan V2, Reversitol V2, and Intimidate. The combination of clinically proven ingredients for positive hormonal manipulation excites me, but what gets me most is the inclusion of potassium nitrate, as I'm a positive responder to nitrates and absolutely love them.
It's unproven as yet, but soon we should have nice anecdotal experiences from logs coming out for ingredients already supported by some clinical studies. I have no doubt we'll also have some runs using subjects that feature before/after blood work - that's the way I know Vaughn likes to do things. Stick to what's worked for you in the past for now and let us prove to you what we've got rocks - I stand by our product 100% otherwise I wouldn't work here.
Darkhorse192
Well-known member
If running a ABE / Erase Pro / DAA cycle would it be retarded to use Core Test as source of DAA? Would it be overkill anti E with the EP? Cant post links to its profile but each serving contains:
-4 g of sodium D-aspartic acid-75 mg of 3-desoxy, 7-keto DHEA
-300 mg of Coleus forskohlii root extract (20% forskolin)
-1500 IU of vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)
-4 g of sodium D-aspartic acid-75 mg of 3-desoxy, 7-keto DHEA
-300 mg of Coleus forskohlii root extract (20% forskolin)
-1500 IU of vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol)
kbayne
Legend
That would stack nice. The forskolin in core test and anabeta elite may be more then you need but other then that you'll be good