To Infinity.... and Beyond!

[MrKleen73]

I doubt this will help w body fat but if ever in San Francisco…

Great movie, and scene!!!!

 

[Dustin07]

my foot felt really good at the gym in my sauconys, but as soon as I put my floresheims back on the stiffness was back so I may need to go ahead and add an insert while things thing heals. I'm not stranger to foot pain. this one seems to just be a strain of the arch etc. not the normal plantar issue, no knots in the heal. it just needs good arch support.

I doubt this will help w body fat but if ever in San Francisco…

The good 'ol days

 

[Hyde]

How did the Spoto’s feel?

 

[Dustin07]

How did the Spoto’s feel?

Weird, but I get it. I think I most recently left off with pauses at bottom around 250lbs x 5 reps, so I opted on the conservative side with 225 x 3x5 on the spottos until I can get the feel for them. rep 5 for each was a challenge. They definitely feel like they would contribute to better coordination and control through the whole lift since I can't simply anticipate momentum in any direction.

 

[MrKleen73]

Weird, but I get it. I think I most recently left off with pauses at bottom around 250lbs x 5 reps, so I opted on the conservative side with 225 x 3x5 on the spottos until I can get the feel for them. rep 5 for each was a challenge. They definitely feel like they would contribute to better coordination and control through the whole lift since I can't simply anticipate momentum in any direction.

Yeah removing that momentum is a different animal.

 

[Dustin07]

SO paid my wife's coach yesterday and saw her break down and plan. Honestly it looks fantastic. It's very obviously bb/physique focused rather than say PL or oly for obvious reasons but well thought out.

In my head bodybuilding was always the easier training in the gym over PL or say Xfit
But the nutritional aspect of course is the area where it is suddenly 10x harder.

her lifting days look awesome, effective, and "easier", but the real grind will be the daily food prep. I love the approach her coach has, should have killer results.

 

[SkRaw85]

Ahhhh, yes the wonderful Bioelectric Impedance Analysis method of body fat measurement. It is about as accurate as guessing someone's gender in San Francisco is, it is only going to be right on occasion.

 

[SkRaw85]

Jinx

 

[MrKleen73]

SO paid my wife's coach yesterday and saw her break down and plan. Honestly it looks fantastic. It's very obviously bb/physique focused rather than say PL or oly for obvious reasons but well thought out.

In my head bodybuilding was always the easier training in the gym over PL or say Xfit
But the nutritional aspect of course is the area where it is suddenly 10x harder.

her lifting days look awesome, effective, and "easier", but the real grind will be the daily food prep. I love the approach her coach has, should have killer results.

That's interesting, I have always felt like BB training was the harder, and more grueling out of the 2. Shorter rest periods, more volume, more burning in muscles, and they are normally closer to failure than a well thought out powerlifting program ever gets unless it includes an AMRAP or a Max attempt of some sort. I think bottom line though, what you are putting into it is what makes them easier, and or harder than one another. I would also imagine that XFit is probably harder than both due to the entire body being involved, even shorter rest periods, and i do believe they do a lot of volume as well correct?

 

[Dustin07]

That's interesting, I have always felt like BB training was the harder, and more grueling out of the 2. Shorter rest periods, more volume, more burning in muscles, and they are normally closer to failure than a well thought out powerlifting program ever gets unless it includes an AMRAP or a Max attempt of some sort. I think bottom line though, what you are putting into it is what makes them easier, and or harder than one another. I would also imagine that XFit is probably harder than both due to the entire body being involved, even shorter rest periods, and i do believe they do a lot of volume as well correct?

Good points!
But yeah with my history in xfit there really isn't a such thing as failure cause if failure is 20 reps but the wod is 21 you pick it up and do it again. Plus depending on the workout, zero rest periods. Just intelligent planning of energy economy.

For example we had a wod that was something like:

6 power snatch
9 overhead squats same bar
12 toes to bar

7 minute amrap (or something like that)

I practiced it many times to find my fail point and best pace to ensure I could keep moving without sacrificing reps. In the end I was very happy with my final results but when I'd head to the regular gym on the weekend to do what I called dynamic training (hitting things I felt weren't worked enough during xfit training) it always felt so much more laid back.


The bb style training to me gets gruelling at the nutritional discipline. To me that's what always really made the difference in a successful cut vs being proficient in the other sports. Nutrition is just so so big in that game to me.

 

[Resolve10]

That's interesting, I have always felt like BB training was the harder, and more grueling out of the 2. Shorter rest periods, more volume, more burning in muscles, and they are normally closer to failure than a well thought out powerlifting program ever gets unless it includes an AMRAP or a Max attempt of some sort. I think bottom line though, what you are putting into it is what makes them easier, and or harder than one another. I would also imagine that XFit is probably harder than both due to the entire body being involved, even shorter rest periods, and i do believe they do a lot of volume as well correct?

Ya all of them are just different "flavors" in my mind. Definitely feel some of the bodybuilding stuff would be tougher in the sense of proximity to failure, while CF just takes much longer due to sessions with so much endurance focusing. Mentally I think bodybuilding seems tougher because progress is much more "subjective" and maybe harder to constantly measure compared to something like your s/b/dl or in CF you can trick yourself into thinking you are making progress due to it being easy to get lost of the main goal with basically endless points to measure.

I guess I don't see how any are that different nutritionally though other than how tough a contest prep is, but balancing high levels of performance while maintaining certain levels of bodyweight is challenging in an inherently different way.

Guess it just depends on what one has the predisposition to I guess and I always just feel the hardest thing is whatever you are currently doing.

 

[Dustin07]

Hammer strength high row
3 x 12-15

Ez bar curls
3 x 12 x 70lbs

Pull ups - wide grip
BW x 8, 8, 8

Seated incline DB curls
4 x 12

Hammer strength front lat pulldowns
3 x 12

DB hammer curls
3 x 10-12

Lat pull downs
3 x 12

Barbell rows
3 x 12 x 95lbs
(Got a bar at the end )

LISS -
10minute rowing HIIT = 2100 meters
10minute incline walk to stretch the foot

Notes
Weight: 200.00

Wanted to squat today. Foot is about 90%. All racks were taken and I was rushed so I figured give the foot another day and be effective with some back and bicep work.

The Phosphatidic acid xt pump was crazy. Biceps almost chunky in the way on the pullups lol. Vascularity way up too. Been a while since I've seen that

No way would I make a day of machines like this but that's all that was available.

 

[Dustin07]

Guess it just depends on what one has the predisposition to I guess

that right there might be the nail on the head. I have always found 1rm training, AMRAP, endurance, etc training to be excruciating, whereas any form of BB style lifting to me has always been more enjoyable. All three leave me in a puddle of sweat.

 

[Dustin07]

Leg ext
5 x 12

Leg curls
4 x 12

Adductor machine
4 x 20 - ascending weight

Back squats
5 x 135, 185, 225
10 x 135

Front squats
3 x 10 x 95

Cardio
Row - 2000m
Bike - 12 min

Notes
Weight 196.5
Heck of a time getting a barbell again today. But I wanted to go easy on that left foot anyways, it still a bit tender. Getting sweaty as hell towards the tail end of this all out sweat run.

 

[akboom87]

Leg ext
5 x 12

Leg curls
4 x 12

Adductor machine
4 x 20 - ascending weight

Back squats
5 x 135, 185, 225
10 x 135

Front squats
3 x 10 x 95

Cardio
Row - 2000m
Bike - 12 min

Notes
Weight 196.5
Heck of a time getting a barbell again today. But I wanted to go easy on that left foot anyways, it still a bit tender. Getting sweaty as hell towards the tail end of this all out sweat run.

Nice session, hopefully the foot heals soon! Even the All out pre I work up a heck of a sweat!!

 

[Dustin07]

Nice session, hopefully the foot heals soon! Even the All out pre I work up a heck of a sweat!!

thanks homie! it feels great when I have my sauconys on, it's mostly just in the work shoes right now. I had a session with my golf coach last night, no foot issues. today it was basically fine until my last set of light squats and then it was a little sore which is why I stuck with rowing and bike vs incline treadmill. I'm guessing a few more days and it will be good to go.

and hell yeah man I need to pack more clothes lol. I was sweating like a pig.

 

[Dustin07]

Bench
20 x bar
15 x 95
5 x 135
1 x 175, 205
2 x 230, 255
1 x 275, 290

SS
3 x 305

Spotto
3 x 5 x 230

Regular
15 x 185

Incline
10 x 95, 115, 135

Lying Skull crushers ez bar
3 x 10+ 60lb

Machine dips
3 x 13-15

LISS
Bike - 10min
Row - 2000m

 

[Hyde]

“Return of the Slingshot”

 

[MrKleen73]

“Return of the Slingshot”

Get em! LOL

I honestly think that using the slingshot if the lockout is not your weak point is an inefficient use of energy, and actually a form of ego lifting if not directly benefiting the effort of building a stronger bench. People get addicted to putting that extra weight on the bar, but if it isn't to correct a triceps / lockout weakness or for speed work I don't know of much other reason to use it besides injury prevention for some with bad shoulders. That being said if someone really enjoys them then have at them, just know you are doing it for enjoyment more than making progress.

 

[Dustin07]

after the last 18 months or so one thing I have noticed is that if I don't regularly hold heavy weight, heavy weight gets heavier. No amount of volume at lower weight has any meaningful carry over for me and the only thing that has consistently increased my top end numbers is training top end weight. Of course additional work like pauses and banded stuff seems to compliment it but with bench the one thing I have seen over and over again is that not training top end weight means falling backwards.

I haven't had my spotter available to me since he went on vacation around June 1st, and no safety pins available at my gym so it's been hard to get heavy work in consistently.

inefficient use of energy

this hasn't been my experience, I haven't found it to be exhaustive at all and typically back off sets are far better when I do sling shot work, the only reason I don't do more, or heavier, is a lack of spotters to be honest. yesterday I definitely would have preferred to go higher for a few more sets.

 

[MrKleen73]

after the last 18 months or so one thing I have noticed is that if I don't regularly hold heavy weight, heavy weight gets heavier. No amount of volume at lower weight has any meaningful carry over for me and the only thing that has consistently increased my top end numbers is training top end weight. Of course additional work like pauses and banded stuff seems to compliment it but with bench the one thing I have seen over and over again is that not training top end weight means falling backwards.

I haven't had my spotter available to me since he went on vacation around June 1st, and no safety pins available at my gym so it's been hard to get heavy work in consistently.



this hasn't been my experience, I haven't found it to be exhaustive at all and typically back off sets are far better when I do sling shot work, the only reason I don't do more, or heavier, is a lack of spotters to be honest. yesterday I definitely would have preferred to go higher for a few more sets.

You absolutely don't need a slingshot to do heavy top end work, you can just do unracks and holds. Otherwise your full ROM heavy top end work should be the result of pressing unassisted off of your chest so you are strengthening the bottom of the movement, especially since your lock out power has surpassed your pressing power. When the slingshot originally brought your bench up quickly you had a lockout weakness from triceps, but now after using it for so long you have more than corrected that problem. So it isn't going to give the same stimulus and results as before. The realityis that without the slingshot you would be working with 10-20lbs less weight but still actually be your unassisted top end heavy work, it would just be giving you the same amount of progress on your pecs as triceps.

As far as efficiency goes, I wasn't talking about how much it uses specifically. Just that using any energy that could be put toward your goal of improving bench that isn't being put toward a weakness or getting you better is an inefficient use of energy in my eyes. Not that it is a problem, as mentioned before if you just love doing them do them all the time. Just know you are doing them all the time out of love and not because they are the right tool for the job you are trying to accomplish. Since you have corrected your lock out strength issues, it just isn't really the right tool for the job.

All of that being said, 1 set at the end of your major work isn't going to hurt nobody.

So your gym doesn't have a power rack? That totally sucks! If they do, drag a bench over there and do your pressing in there if there is no one there to spot you. If there is even a 12 year old or 6o year old grandma you can get them to spot you as long as you don't need a lift off. They should only be lifting a very little bit of the weight if they have to touch the bar at all, unless you plan to do forced reps.

Edit: You can tell me to shut up, I am obviously very opinionated since starting the Proviron. I feel compelled to voice my opinions. LMAO, so shut me up if needed.

 

[Hyde]

after the last 18 months or so one thing I have noticed is that if I don't regularly hold heavy weight, heavy weight gets heavier. No amount of volume at lower weight has any meaningful carry over for me and the only thing that has consistently increased my top end numbers is training top end weight. Of course additional work like pauses and banded stuff seems to compliment it but with bench the one thing I have seen over and over again is that not training top end weight means falling backwards.

I haven't had my spotter available to me since he went on vacation around June 1st, and no safety pins available at my gym so it's been hard to get heavy work in consistently.



this hasn't been my experience, I haven't found it to be exhaustive at all and typically back off sets are far better when I do sling shot work, the only reason I don't do more, or heavier, is a lack of spotters to be honest. yesterday I definitely would have preferred to go higher for a few more sets.

No man, he’s right.

Keeping heavy weight in your hands is good for HONING the skill of handling big weights for you. If you want to be able to lift heavy, you will lift the most if you frequently practice this. However, that is all energy/recovery you must spend that could instead go to expanding your strength & size BASE. I wasn’t doing the 25 rep wide grip bench because I care what my combine bench is - I was doing it because combined with a caloric surplus it was blowing up my pecs and front delts for benching, and I had my 80% day for the higher impact strength work.

This is why you keep lifting around 300lbs.

You think Dan Green was always handling 500lbs to bench that at peak? The answer (that you can easily Google old articles) is no, he did most of his training between 65-80% for plenty of volume that tapered down as intensity rose towards a meet, then he would add a Slingshot around a month out and start practicing heavy raw & slanger doubles & singles. Most great raw benchers need to do a lot of benching, whether they accrue total weekly volume over 2 or even 3-4 weekly exposures to variants - it’s a lot of reps.

Even in a conjugate approach, besides the max effort method, the repetition effort work is VERY important. After a quick heavy single, you are usually looking at a hard 3x5-8 on a bench variation then things like volume db bench, dips, ohp, lots of extensions, pushups etc.

As mentioned, if you just wanna do it - that’s a very pure thing, doing what you love in the gym for the sake of it. But maintaining a max is not really how you build a greater max.

 

[Hyde]

And I just say that because I want to see you hit your goals. If you are happier doing things X way and don’t care as much about the destination or timeline, I respect the hell out of that.

But I want you to know that before all of the new bench PRs I ever had, there was significant focus on accumulation phases, usually months where I wasn’t touching even 90% of whatever my daily 1RM was at the moment. It takes less time to acclimate to heavy loads than you think; that’s why most peaking blocks are 6 weeks or less.

 

[MrKleen73]

And I just say that because I want to see you hit your goals. If you are happier doing things X way and don’t care as much about the destination or timeline, I respect the hell out of that.

But I want you to know that before all of the new bench PRs I ever had, there was significant focus on accumulation phases, usually months where I wasn’t touching even 90% of whatever my daily 1RM was at the moment. It takes less time to acclimate to heavy loads than you think; that’s why most peaking blocks are 6 weeks or less.

Agreed, that is all neural training, increasing neural capacity to fire as many of your muscle fibers as hard as possible all at once. Yes you will lose some top end strength temporarily but then you said 4-6 weeks after putting the hammer down on strength training you will more than likely be hitting even better numbers, not just getting back to your old max. Think of it like seasons in the PNY @Dustin07 you have to go through the long sunless days to get to the long sun out days you desire. The drudgery and work is like the long dark season, and the realization of growth and work gives you a new PR similar to the beauty you get to experience around you in those months with longer days. You have to go through those what feel like not so light filled days to get to the reward after.

 

[Resolve10]

I think everyone is just trying to point you in the right direction so you don't waste time doing things that aren't directly related to your goals. Not everything needs to always be insanely related to your goal, but I think people see how you seemingly are so hyper focused on your bench, yet seem to not be focusing within those bench sections with a logical direction.

I feel you have the slingshot mentality backwards. You had someone tell you before you even used it that for raw benchers it can maybe be slightly helpful for those who feel they need to hold heavy weights to get used to them, but now it is almost like instead of helping it has become a crutch. Instead of feeling the heavy weights help you to progress it seems you feel if you don't feel the heavy weights you won't progress, like you need them. There are tradeoffs with everything and while your slingshot work isn't really hypertrophy based at the high weight low rep and low set amounts you tend to do anyways the slingshot itself decreases growth potential in many of the prime movers on a bench by decreasing the stretch response in the most stretched position of the lift, so if there aren't other things working that specific area a ton it is going to become a weak area and underworked.

I was glad you took Hyde's advice to hit up P's chart for the Spotos presses because I feel there is this large gap in a lot of your benching. You seem to daily hit a max then drop super far back and blast away at super high reps. Doesn't mean that that work can't be helpful and it may help build some hypertrophy, but I just get the feeling it leaves you missing a lot of work between 3-8 reps. You also mention you can't go heavy because you don't have a spot, but doing lots of this work shouldn't be maximal you shouldn't need a spot very often when working in some of those ranges, tons of people build huge lifts with submax work like that.

 

[Resolve10]

Most great raw benchers need to do a lot of benching, whether they accrue total weekly volume over 2 or even 3-4 weekly exposures to variants - it’s a lot of reps.

As mentioned, if you just wanna do it - that’s a very pure thing, doing what you love in the gym for the sake of it. But maintaining a max is not really how you build a greater max.

Not that the stuff I deleted also didn't really matter too, but these two lines I think sum up what i was trying to say. All the guys I know who have built massive benches slug away like the top line. Lots of reps also doesn't even mean per set, but just like accumulating a ton over the session to over the whole week.

The second keeps making me think of the adage of training vs testing. Some things are better for expressing our strength and some methods are better for building them, even when we don't want to.