THUNDERGOD'S "STICKING" IT TO THE WICKED INJECTABLE CYCLE--Prop/Cyp Combo

AZMIDLYF said:
Damn that chick is smoking hot!! Brunettes rock my world...

I don't know how you keep raising the bar TG but I guess that's just how you roll. I would be done after the quads. How you can still do SLDL is beyond me bubba.
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??? aware me
 
metroba said:
Maybe I'm just exhausted but did something happen to TG's back?
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Refering to having anything left in the tank after the brutal quad assault to tackle the SLDLs. I always leave the quads for the last movement because I am toast afterwards.
 
AZMIDLYF said:
Refering to having anything left in the tank after the brutal quad assault to tackle the SLDLs. I always leave the quads for the last movement because I am toast afterwards.
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I didn't know demigod's needed rest :scratchchin:
 
That was hilarious.

TG another awesome work out brother congratulations on the success of this cycle so far!
 
metroba said:
Maybe I'm just exhausted but did something happen to TG's back?
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Yes. It's experiencing ultra-high levels of hypertrophy!!

Quick.....somebody get me some larger shirts. :toofunny:
 

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AZMIDLYF said:
Refering to having anything left in the tank after the brutal quad assault to tackle the SLDLs. I always leave the quads for the last movement because I am toast afterwards.
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I actually prefer to hit up the SLDL's after nailing quads. I think doing the machine squats first warms up my lower back sufficiently to launch right into the SLDL's without reservation or apprehension.

Fearless and wreckless abandon are the order of the day!!! :twisted:
 
MAYHEM IN THE A.M.Invalid Link Removed

Nothing like some early morning physical exercise to wake you correctly. Now I feel as though I can face any challenge the day throws my way. "I'm more than a conqueror.....":hail:

20 Minutes of HIIT exertion on the Glider Machine. I love that little sadistic peice of :censored: LOL
330 Nonstop reps of ab annihilation comprised of seated machine crunches, leg raises, and kneeling rope crunches.

Sweet little session this morning. I may have to up the resistance some on the glider machine. I'm somewhat reluctant however. considering how strenuous it already is. ha ha But alright.....it's done. Upping the resistance for the next cardio onslaught!! :smite:

I'm getting alternative cardio sessions on top of these 3 usual workouts. Some of my older readers remember me talking about taking rather long walks in the evenings about 4 times per week. I still do that. I have always loved walking and talking to All-Father. It brings great peace.
And another source of "cardio" is all the sex I've been having because of this injectable Testosterone!! It really turns you into a sexual dynamo. This has to be my favorite side effect of all. LOL


It makes me look at stuff like this all day long.....
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Looking good man! What day are you on now btw? :)

//CC
 
Must spread reps... Inarius I owe you. That sh*t just about made me fall out of my chair laughing.
 
ConcreteConny said:
Looking good man! What day are you on now btw? :)

//CC
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Day 43 bro. And this cycle is the best I've ever done. Period. Nothing compares to how real Test makes you feel or perform.

So I'm 6 weeks in. The orals have been dropped as of today. Now I have 6 more weeks of injectables to finish up with. I'm up 9 lbs. from the beginning and it is for sure ALL LEAN!!! :head:

The best part of this cycle is yet to come seeing as how I just recently went from 600 mg of Test weekly, up to 750 mg. of Test each week. I may bump this up closer to a full gram before this run is over with!!! :twisted:
 
thundergod said:
I may bump this up closer to a full gram before this run is over with!!! :twisted:
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The rivers will run red with the blood of your enemies. :head:
 
Very curious to see what you feel when the orals have stopped.(no homo)
 
MIND OVER MATTER

Or as I have heard it quoted, "If you don't mind it (heavy weights) then it don't matter!!" Can't let the numbers effect your mental attitude. They're just numbers. It shouldn't matter whether it's 50 lbs. or 500 lbs on the bar. You just get your ass on down there and grab that freakin' bar and squeeze it hard as you can to let your muscles know that you mean fukkin' business!!

Now blast that sucker through its full range of motion with limitless power and strength!!

By-Odin, I'm ready for this struggle, for this confrontation, for this challenge, and for this battle!!!
:AR15firing::rocketwhore:

For Honor, For Glory, For Asgard!!!Invalid Link Removed
 
um imma gonna have to ask u to stop eating baby deer please. crazy man and now ur upping it .

its slow but watch it ...its def worth it ...way to go godzilla on expectations

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXCUBVS4kfQ"]YouTube- Bambi Meets Godzilla[/nomedia]
 
THUNDER'S TEMPEST

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I felt this storm brewing inside of me since yesterday. I've spent the last 24 hours visualizing how this destruction would evolve. Then 1 hour before the battle, I slipped into a state of self-induced hypnosis where I blocked out all negative thoughts and emotions. I've told many mortals that they can't let their emotions control them, but rather they must control their emotions. Use them to your advantage. The mind is the most powerful weapon in our arsenal.....put it to use!! :yup:

BACK

Behind The Neck Pulldowns--80X12, 140X10, Rest-Pause Set:240X11-6-4=21 total reps. Will increase the weights here next time. Immediate drop to 180X14. Got some other-worldly contractions on this drop set. I was squeezing my lats for all they are worth!! :yo:
Reverse-Grip Bentover EZ Bar Rows--115X12, 205X10, triple drop set:315X11>245X12>185X14. Now this was strenuous. All-out effort demanded here. This may be the heaviest I've ever went on Reverse-Grip Rows. I'll have to look back through lots of log books to see. Anywho....it was heavy!! :yikes: LOL
DB Pullovers--40X12, 70X10, 130X11, 115X12. Made my lats really flare out. After each set I was doing lat spread poses to really open them up.
SUPER-SET ACTION:
Standing Face Pulls--40X12, 60X10, 120X12, 120X12.
One-Arm Bentover Cable Rows--50X10, 70X10, 130X10, 130X10.
This was the first time I've ever done face pulls. I'll venture up to heavier weights next time. I just kept these slow and controlled to get the most out of them. Super-setting them with the cable rows was very intense.

BICEPS

Standing EZ Bar Wide-Grip Curls--75X12, 95X10, Rest-Pause Set:175X8-4-2=14 total reps. Will stay at this weight until the reps increase. This is pretty damn heavy as it is!! Immediate drop to 115X13. And these really forced the blood into my biceps. Veins were bulging and standing out in bold relief. Very cool to look at. ha ha :147:
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
One-Arm Cable Preacher Curls--30X12, 50X10, 75X12, 75X12.
Standing Close-Grip Cable Bar Curls--60X12, 100X10, 160X13, 160X13. Really strict on these 2 exercises. Making sure to get peak contractions on the one-arm preachers. Got to make these mountain peaks stand up and scrape the sky!! :head:
One-Arm Upper Pulley Hercules Curls--20X12, 50X15, 50X15. I love the way these really cramp up the biceps. Plus by now my biceps were absolutely gorged with blood.

FOREARMS
Standing DB Pinwheel Curls--40'sX12, 60'sX10, 90'sX12, 70'sX12. Just straight sets here. Putting the power to these bad boys!! Make 'em count!! :mischievous:

Incredible workout!! I was ripping through this session with less rest between sets than usual. I was watching the clock and trying to slow myself down a little to recover from the previous set. I just wanted to blast through this shit!!! To say that I was fired-up would be a gross understatement!! :firedevil:

FIGHT WITH FURY MY BERZERKER BROTHERS!!!! :aargh::duel::twisted:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rxvFzW4JLs"]YouTube- REO Speedwagon - Ridin' The Storm Out[/nomedia]
 
thundergod said:
THUNDER'S TEMPEST

Invalid Link Removed


I felt this storm brewing inside of me since yesterday. I've spent the last 24 hours visualizing how this destruction would evolve. Then 1 hour before the battle, I slipped into a state of self-induced hypnosis where I blocked out all negative thoughts and emotions. I've told many mortals that they can't let their emotions control them, but rather they must control their emotions. Use them to your advantage. The mind is the most powerful weapon in our arsenal.....put it to use!! :yup:

BACK

Behind The Neck Pulldowns--80X12, 140X10, Rest-Pause Set:240X11-6-4=21 total reps. Will increase the weights here next time. Immediate drop to 180X14. Got some other-worldly contractions on this drop set. I was squeezing my lats for all they are worth!! :yo:
Reverse-Grip Bentover EZ Bar Rows--115X12, 205X10, triple drop set:315X11>245X12>185X14. Now this was strenuous. All-out effort demanded here. This may be the heaviest I've ever went on Reverse-Grip Rows. I'll have to look back through lots of log books to see. Anywho....it was heavy!! :yikes: LOL
DB Pullovers--40X12, 70X10, 130X11, 115X12. Made my lats really flare out. After each set I was doing lat spread poses to really open them up.
SUPER-SET ACTION:
Standing Face Pulls--40X12, 60X10, 120X12, 120X12.
One-Arm Bentover Cable Rows--50X10, 70X10, 130X10, 130X10.
This was the first time I've ever done face pulls. I'll venture up to heavier weights next time. I just kept these slow and controlled to get the most out of them. Super-setting them with the cable rows was very intense.

BICEPS

Standing EZ Bar Wide-Grip Curls--75X12, 95X10, Rest-Pause Set:175X8-4-2=14 total reps. Will stay at this weight until the reps increase. This is pretty damn heavy as it is!! Immediate drop to 115X13. And these really forced the blood into my biceps. Veins were bulging and standing out in bold relief. Very cool to look at. ha ha :147:
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
One-Arm Cable Preacher Curls--30X12, 50X10, 75X12, 75X12.
Standing Close-Grip Cable Bar Curls--60X12, 100X10, 160X13, 160X13. Really strict on these 2 exercises. Making sure to get peak contractions on the one-arm preachers. Got to make these mountain peaks stand up and scrape the sky!! :head:
One-Arm Upper Pulley Hercules Curls--20X12, 50X15, 50X15. I love the way these really cramp up the biceps. Plus by now my biceps were absolutely gorged with blood.

FOREARMS
Standing DB Pinwheel Curls--40'sX12, 60'sX10, 90'sX12, 70'sX12. Just straight sets here. Putting the power to these bad boys!! Make 'em count!! :mischievous:

Incredible workout!! I was ripping through this session with less rest between sets than usual. I was watching the clock and trying to slow myself down a little to recover from the previous set. I just wanted to blast through this shit!!! To say that I was fired-up would be a gross understatement!! :firedevil:

FIGHT WITH FURY MY BERZERKER BROTHERS!!!! :aargh::duel::twisted:
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How long did this Herculean task take?
 
AZMIDLYF said:
Very curious to see what you feel when the orals have stopped.
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edwitt said:
X2 this is what I am most interested in :) this is the part I'm looking fwd too
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Of course this was the very first morning without the orals. But I felt no different. I felt a little better actually. I think 6 weeks on orals will take their toll on most individuals with their toxicity issues. You usally start to feel lethargic and then nauseous when your liver starts telling you to ease up. Your appetite dwindles and you feel less energetic.
Since I rarely encounter bad sides, I hadn't felt all this. But I could tell the orals had run their course and had provided me with all the assistance they normally contribute. I don't think it would help anything to continue on with them now that the injectables are for sure running at 100%. To do more orals would be like tossing small handfuls of sand into the Grand Canyon.
The injectables are doing far more for my lifting and my physique than any orals that I have used to date. And that is quite a list in and of itself!!!
 
Nice 9 lbs on a recomp. So here is my thinking TG since you are in love with excess as i am. However I don't get to play with the same toys or I would be a very single man. Yet, if I were a guy using Test I would notice some water gain as well that would somewhat hide some of the new definition. Now say being that person (you) and I had already run Natadrol and realized not only that it adds to anabolism and strength gains but also works excellently as a diuretic, I MIGHT run Natadrol the last 2-4 weeks of the run before taking those pics at the end. That way not only are you ripped and huge but very dry in your after pics.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Nice 9 lbs on a recomp. So here is my thinking TG since you are in love with excess as i am. However I don't get to play with the same toys or I would be a very single man. Yet, if I were a guy using Test I would notice some water gain as well that would somewhat hide some of the new definition. Now say being that person (you) and I had already run Natadrol and realized not only that it adds to anabolism and strength gains but also works excellently as a diuretic, I MIGHT run Natadrol the last 2-4 weeks of the run before taking those pics at the end. That way not only are you ripped and huge but very dry in your after pics.
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Mr kleen sounds like he has a good idea there. I for one second this notion.
 
hman85 said:
Mr kleen sounds like he has a good idea there. I for one second this notion.
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You know, it's not a bad idea.

OR, if you really want to get dry, eat some var. you know, for breakfast and a late lunch ED. In the 60-100mg range.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Nice 9 lbs on a recomp. So here is my thinking TG since you are in love with excess as i am. However I don't get to play with the same toys or I would be a very single man. Yet, if I were a guy using Test I would notice some water gain as well that would somewhat hide some of the new definition. Now say being that person (you) and I had already run Natadrol and realized not only that it adds to anabolism and strength gains but also works excellently as a diuretic, I MIGHT run Natadrol the last 2-4 weeks of the run before taking those pics at the end. That way not only are you ripped and huge but very dry in your after pics.
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What has been keeping me dry thus far is the D-Plex that I've been running. It's a DHT precursor but it acts much more like Proviron than it does Methyl-DHT or any of the Stano clones out there. It has lowered my SHBG allowing more free test to flow through my system and it's anti-aromatase activity has kept estrogen low so far. What I will do now that I have dropped the D-Plex (due to the methylation) is to substitute it with high dose Avena Sativa for the rest of this cycle to act the same as the D-Plex or Proviron. I'll be using 2 full grams of the Avena Sativa split up over 2 doses of 1 gram each mornings and evenings.

I also will re-instate the Transdermal Formestane for the last 2 or 3 weeks to further help dry me out and harden up the muscles to their maximum.


Here's an article to back my decision of substituting the Avena Sativa:

The main downside of Proviron is that since it contains no anabolic properties, it will not result in much muscle growth if used alone. It truly is a “kicker” to other steroids, most notably testosterone. And although it doesn’t cause water retention, it can increase blood pressure. DHT can also increase irritability if duration exceeds more than a few weeks.

There have recently been advances in natural alternatives to Proviron. Avenacosides (Avena Sativa) have been shown to lower SHBG and to raise free testosterone by as much as 20%. Since Proviron is used mostly as an ancillary substance and does not have much of an effect of actual growth, more and more people are opting to go the natural route. Although Avenacosides (Avena Sativa) won’t work quite as well, they are effective and can be used in conjunction with a lower dose of Proviron for an even more powerful muscle hardening/libido enhancing effect.
 
MrBigPR said:
U fully out of d plex?
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No. By no means. I have more D-Plex in stash.
It's just that after 6 weeks on orals (methylated ones too: Epi, Phera, and D-Plex) I feel it's more prudent to drop them and to substitute the Avena Sativa for its Proviron like effects mainly for safety/toxicity concerns. I have more D-Plex for future runs, but I fail to see the wisdom in further stressing my liver on this cycle. The increased dosages on the injectables will more than suffice for the lack of orals from here on out.

And as I stated earlier I will bring back the TD Form for the last 2 or 3 weeks of the cycle to keep estrogen low and to keep the muscles dry and hard. :thumbsup:
 
newbie2bb said:
TG....

where did u get ur knowlege at ..a boook site on the web?
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Years of reading and studying. And I feel as though I've only scratched the proverbial surface!! One never stops learning. :type::study:

If I could give everyone some sound advice it would be to stop being spoon-fed knowledge from the professors of "Bro-Science University" and to study for themselves to find the facts.
 
thundergod said:
Years of reading and studying. And I feel as though I've only scratched the proverbial surface!! One never stops learning. :type::study:

If I could give everyone some sound advice it would be to stop being spoon-fed knowledge from the professors of "Bro-Science University" and to study for themselves to find the facts.
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i do ...no one likes a leech ..but wondering if a specific site or anywhere. but i have learned tons thus far . so didn't know ...Thanks . :fest30:
 
Ur gonna have some estro rebound, I'd introduce a small AI dose and work up to desired dose then taper normally as you wish. Keep an eye on on it. You've got everything on hand that u need (I believe). Cycle has been money so far!!!!
 
newbie2bb said:
i do ...no one likes a leech ..but wondering if a specific site or anywhere. but i have learned tons thus far . so didn't know ...Thanks . :fest30:
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You'll learn alot reading some of the veteran members' past logs. Tons of info.

Another good resource are getting to know the ingredients of the supplements you want to take. Knowing mechanism of actions, half life and other possible interactions will aid you in being able to pick an choose exactly what you want without second guessing yourself.
 
thundergod said:
If I could give everyone some sound advice it would be to stop being spoon-fed knowledge from the professors of "Bro-Science University" and to study for themselves to find the facts.
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WTF man?! I'm still paying off my student loans to BSU! I had to pay for those profs food and gym memberships for a year and a half!!! :censored: :aargh:
 
MrBigPR said:
Ur gonna have some estro rebound, I'd introduce a small AI dose and work up to desired dose then taper normally as you wish. Keep an eye on on it. You've got everything on hand that u need (I believe). Cycle has been money so far!!!!
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I have plenty on hand. A-Dex, ATD, Formestane, Trione, and Resveratrol (ellagic acid). I was already planning on implementing some ATD@25mg. every other night to keep the estro from rebounding on me. I may up it to 25mg. every night if I feel the need to. Then taper off and discontinue it when I re-introduce the TD Form back into the equation.

I prefer to save the A-Dex for something wetter in the future. Everyone needs to remember why I included the Test Propionate in the first place. Very little water-bloat.

I still believe that we shouldn't attempt to totally crush estrogen levels while on-cycle. There's plenty of good benefits to be reaped from healthy estrogen levels in regards to well-lubed joints, a healthy libido, and increased muscle gains.



Aromatizable Androgens and Anabolism:
The Role of Estrogen in Muscle Growth
by William Llewellyn

Can estrogen work to augment muscle growth? Is this hormone always unwanted when we are taking anabolic steroids? Anecdotal reports from athletes suggest that the use of estrogen maintenance drugs such as tamoxifen (anti-estrogen) or aminoglutethimide (anti-aromatase) may slightly hinder muscle mass gains during steroid therapy. An explanation or even clarification for this observation has not been easy to come by. Here I would like to take a look at the comparative effectiveness of certain aromatizable and non-aromatizable drugs, as well as the possible mechanism in which estrogen can play a beneficial role to the athlete.

The Androgen Receptor
All anabolic/androgenic steroids promote muscle growth primarily via the cellular androgen receptor (abbreviated as AR in this article). The steroid attaches to and activates the androgen receptor, which ultimately gives the cell an order to increase protein synthesis. This process is well understood. But it has been suggested that other mechanisms may foster muscle growth during steroid therapy as well, which lie outside of the androgen receptor. One way this is evidenced is by the fact that steroids displaying a high affinity for the AR in muscle tissue do not always promote an equally high level of muscle growth. In other words, anabolic potency does not always correspond perfectly to receptor affinity. Clearly there are some disparities that lead into question whether or not the androgen receptor is the only thing at work concerning growth.

Testosterone, Nandrolone and Methenolone
Testosterone is without question one of the most effective steroids for building muscle mass available to athletes. However it does not have the highest affinity for the androgen receptor compared to some other steroids. For example, it has been shown that by eliminating the 19-methyl group (nandrolone) the affinity of the steroid for the androgen receptor is greatly enhanced. Nandrolone thus displays approximately 2-3 times greater affinity for the androgen receptor compared to testosterone, yet its ability to promote muscle growth seems to be considerably lower than testosterone at an equal dosage. One discussed possibility for this occurrence is the reduced androgenic potency of nandrolone. While testosterone converts to the more active steroid dihydrotestosterone (3-4 times greater AR affinity) upon interaction with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme in various androgenic target tissues such as the skin, scalp, prostate, CNS and liver, nandrolone drops to a third of its original potency by converting to the weak steroid dihydronandrolone[ii]. However this action is very site specific, and in muscle tissue nandrolone dominates as the active form of the steroid. Therefore this explanation may not suffice.

Nandrolone also differs from testosterone in its ability to be converted by the aromatase enzyme to estradiol (an active estrogen). In comparison, nandrolone aromatizes at approximately 20% of the rate testosterone does, and as such is not known as a very estrogenic steroid. It is likewise favored when reduced estrogenic side effects such as water retention, fat deposition and gynecomastia are desired. However athletes know that there is a trade off with the reduced tendency for nandrolone to promote side effects, in that it is a less anabolic steroid. With its known high affinity for the AR in muscle tissue, could this suggest that estrogen may also be a key mediator of muscle growth?

When we look at Primobolan® (methenolone) we see a similar trend. Methenolone is at least as good a binder of the androgen receptor as testosterone. By some accounts it is on par with nandrolone[iii]. However it is known to be much weaker than both steroids at promoting muscle growth. We know that methenolone does not interact with 5-alpha reductase, and as such its affinity for the AR does not increase or decrease in androgen target tissues. This would logically seem like a more favorable trait for anabolism over the weakening we see with nandrolone. However methenolone is a markedly weaker anabolic, and requires relatively high doses to promote growth. This also brings into question the role of 5-alpha reductase in promoting an anabolic state. Perhaps the fact that Primobolan® is a non-aromatizable steroid is more relevant.

Estrogen and GH/IGF-1
To date the most common explanation for why anti-estrogens may be slightly counterproductive to growth in the sports literature has been the suggestion that estrogen plays a role in the production of growth hormone and IGF-1. IGF-1 (insulin like growth factor 1, formerly known as somatomedin C) is of course an anabolic product released primarily in the liver via GH stimulus. IGF-1 is responsible for the growth promoting effects (increased nitrogen retention, cell proliferation) we associate with growth hormone therapy. We do know that women have higher levels of growth hormone than men, and also that GH secretion varies over the course of the menstrual cycle in direct correlation with estrogen levels[iv]. Estrogen is likewise often looked at as a key trigger in the release of GH in women under normal physiological situations.

It is also suggested that the aromatization of androgens to estrogens in men plays an important role in the release and production of GH and IGF-1. This was evidenced by a 1993 study of hypogonadal men, comparing the effects of testosterone replacement therapy on GH and IGF-1 levels with and without the addition of tamoxifen[v]. When the anti-estrogen tamoxifen was given, GH and IGF-1 levels were notably suppressed, while both values were elevated with the administration of testosterone enanthate alone. Another study has shown 300mg of testosterone enanthate weekly (which elevated estradiol levels) to cause a slight IGF-1 increase in normal men, whereas 300mg weekly of nandrolone decanoate (a poor substrate for aromatase that caused a lowering of estradiol levels in this study) would not elevate IGF-1 levels[vi]. Yet another study shows that GH and IGF-1 secretion is increased with testosterone administration on males with delayed puberty, while dihydrotestosterone (non-aromatizable) seems to suppress GH and IGF-1 secretion, presumably due to its strong anti-estrogenic/gonadotropin suppressing action[vii]. All of these studies seem to support a direct, estrogen-dependant mechanism for GH and/or IGF-1 release in men. It is difficult to say at this point just how important estrogen is to IGF-1 production as it relates to the promotion of anabolism in the steroid using athlete, however it remains an interesting subject to investigate.

Glucose Utilization and Estrogen
Estrogen may play an even more vital role in promoting an anabolic state by affecting glucose utilization in muscle tissue. This occurs via an altering the level of available glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase. G6PD is an important enzyme in the support anabolism, as it is directly tied to the use of glucose for muscle growth and recuperation[viii] [ix]. During the period of regeneration after skeletal muscle damage, levels of G6PD are shown to rise dramatically. G6PD enzyme plays a vital role in what is known as the pentose phosphate pathway, and as such this rise is believed to enhance the PPP related process in which nucleic acids and lipids are synthesized in cells; fostering the repair of muscle tissue.

A 1980 study at the University of Maryland has shown that levels of glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase rise after administration of testosterone propionate, and further that the aromatization of testosterone to estradiol is directly responsible for this increase.[x] In this study neither dihydrotestosterone nor fluoxymesterone could mimic the affect of testosterone propionate on levels of G6PD, an affect that was also blocked by the addition of the potent anti-aromatase 4-hydroxyandrostenedione to testosterone. 17-beta estradiol administration caused a similar increase in G6PD, which was not noticed when its inactive estrogen isomer 17-alpha estradiol (unable to bind the estrogen receptor) was given. An anti-androgen could also not block the positive action of testosterone. This study provides one of the first palatable explanations for a direct and positive effect of estrogen on muscle tissue.

What does this all mean?
It is a long held belief among athletes that estrogen maintenance drugs can slightly hinder muscle gains during steroid therapy with a strong aromatizable steroid such as testosterone. Whether or not we have plausibly explained this remains to be seen, however the above evidence certainly does provide strong support for a direct and positive affect of estrogen on growth. Does this mean we should abandon estrogen maintenance drugs? I don’t think that should be the case. It is important to remember that estrogen can deliver many unwanted effects such as increased water retention, fat deposition and the development of female breast tissue when it becomes too active in the male body. Clearly if we plan a high-dose cycle with an aromatizable steroid, anti-estrogens will be an important inclusion. However we cannot ignore the suggestion of using estrogen maintenance drugs only when they are necessary to combat visible side effects during mild to moderately dosed cycles,especially if bulk is the ultimate goal of the athlete.
 
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