THUNDERGOD'S "STICKING" IT TO THE WICKED INJECTABLE CYCLE--Prop/Cyp Combo
- Thread starter thundergod
- Start date
oufinny
Well-known member
Don't smash my dreams about the hoverboard damn you!
You're telling me you can't get one??? Man I want to cry! :irked:
VolcomX311
Legend
Friendly inquisition in the Thunderhood. What are people's opinion on AppNuts DRIVE? I'm looking for a completely non-hormonal test boost (granted it would be minor), but I know Drive contains basic ingredients like Icariin and Foreslean. Any opinions? Thanks in advance :fest30:
SilentBob187
Well-known member
I like your moves! :swordfight:
thundergod
Well-known member
I likes deez titties.....and I likes dem a LOT!!
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
It's not wrong for me to like this.....is it??!! LMFAO
Inarius
Well-known member
I took drive a while back... I didn't notice many effects besides a pretty hefty libido boost... I have heard good things about Formadrol by LG tho.
VolcomX311
Legend
Me, too, but is it hormonal at all? I'm fresh off of an 8 week run of RESTORE by ALRI, so I need to stay off of anything other then herbals for just a little bit.
edwitt
Well-known member
might be a bit off topic
BUT Thundergod actually brought this to my attention so i did a little homework and thought id post it here aswell as my thread Invalid Link Removed and thx for subbing
Apologies to those of you that already aware of this protocol
GRAPEFRUIT JUICE
I will be adopting this protocol going forward, the studies i have read are very compelling, interested to hear from members personal experiences with this
This was brought to my attention this morning by a learned member, Thundergod, i have been doing some research and with the help of "copy and paste" i present to you
grapefruit inhibits the enzyme CYP3A4. This enzyme is responsible for breaking down substances through 6beta-hydroxylation. grapefruit only inhibits CYP3A4 in the small intestine. The enzyme is also found in the liver, but grapefruit does not affect it there. Less CYP3A4 in the small intestine means that a large group of substances is more easily absorbed by the body.
Between 17 and 46 percent of these hormones leave the body in the 6beta-hydroxylated form.
Basically, if you drink 250ml of grapefruit juice with your oral medications, it will increase their absorbtion, blood serum concentrations, etc...There was a study done specifically with some 17A drugs, but I decided not to copy it here. The article I did copy (below) is alot more reader-friendly and less technical.
If you are too lazy to read the article, here's the summary:
Drink 250ml of grapefruit juice (thats 8.4 ounces) with your oral steroids, and you just need to drink it once per day, even if you take your orals spread out throughout the day.
I've seen studies where absorbtion of some drugs was increased by up to 500%!
Also...before you ask about the effects of grapefruit juice on oral rec drugs the answer is YES, this applies to ALL ORAL MEDICATIONS/DRUGS.
Here's the article:
James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ
Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2
The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug–food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 — CYP3A4 — present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4
After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bioavailability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.
Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice–drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9
There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.
What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice–drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.
Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity.
BUT Thundergod actually brought this to my attention so i did a little homework and thought id post it here aswell as my thread Invalid Link Removed and thx for subbing
Apologies to those of you that already aware of this protocol
GRAPEFRUIT JUICE
I will be adopting this protocol going forward, the studies i have read are very compelling, interested to hear from members personal experiences with this
This was brought to my attention this morning by a learned member, Thundergod, i have been doing some research and with the help of "copy and paste" i present to you
grapefruit inhibits the enzyme CYP3A4. This enzyme is responsible for breaking down substances through 6beta-hydroxylation. grapefruit only inhibits CYP3A4 in the small intestine. The enzyme is also found in the liver, but grapefruit does not affect it there. Less CYP3A4 in the small intestine means that a large group of substances is more easily absorbed by the body.
Between 17 and 46 percent of these hormones leave the body in the 6beta-hydroxylated form.
Basically, if you drink 250ml of grapefruit juice with your oral medications, it will increase their absorbtion, blood serum concentrations, etc...There was a study done specifically with some 17A drugs, but I decided not to copy it here. The article I did copy (below) is alot more reader-friendly and less technical.
If you are too lazy to read the article, here's the summary:
Drink 250ml of grapefruit juice (thats 8.4 ounces) with your oral steroids, and you just need to drink it once per day, even if you take your orals spread out throughout the day.
I've seen studies where absorbtion of some drugs was increased by up to 500%!
Also...before you ask about the effects of grapefruit juice on oral rec drugs the answer is YES, this applies to ALL ORAL MEDICATIONS/DRUGS.
Here's the article:
James Maskalyk
Editorial Fellow, CMAJ
Grapefruit juice interacts with a number of medications. This unusual discovery was made serendipitously in 1989 during an experiment designed to test the effect of ethanol on a calcium-channel blocker.1 The observed response was later determined to be due to the grapefruit juice delivery vehicle rather than the alcohol. In the past decade, the list of drug interactions with grapefruit juice has expanded to include several classes of medication, precipitating a recent advisory from Health Canada.2
The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug–food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 — CYP3A4 — present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4
After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bioavailability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.
Individuals express CYP3A4 in different proportions, those with the highest intestinal concentration being most susceptible to grapefruit juice–drug interactions.5 An effect is seen with the whole fruit as well as its juice, so caution should be exercised with both.7 The precise chemical compound in grapefruit that causes the interaction has not been identified. There is no similar reaction with orange juice, although there is some suspicion that "sour oranges" such as the Seville variety, may have some effect.8 A recent study, however, that tested the known interference of grapefruit juice with cyclosporine showed no similar effect with Seville oranges.9
There is some interest in the potential therapeutic benefit of adding grapefruit juice to a drug regimen to increase oral bioavailability.3 The limitation is the individual variation in patient response. However, if the chemical that causes grapefruit's CYP3A4 inhibition is elucidated, there may be an opportunity to modulate that pathway in a controlled fashion.
What to do: Much of the data obtained on grapefruit juice–drug interactions involved measuring serum drug concentrations in small numbers of healthy volunteers. Because of the limited data and only occasional case reports,10 it is difficult to quantify the clinical significance for individual patients. One may assume that the interaction occurs primarily with oral medicines, and only with those that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, with the consequence being increased oral bioavailability, higher serum drug concentrations and associated adverse effects.
Physicians should review medication lists often, with the goal of warning patients about adverse interactions. A list of medicines with which patients should not consume grapefruit is provided in Table 1.3,11,12 In the case of several medications that share the CYP3A4 metabolism pathway, but for which a clinical effect has not been elucidated or is theoretical, patients should be advised to consume grapefruit cautiously and be monitored for toxicity.
Inarius
Well-known member
no it's not. I'm thinking of running it myself here in a few months.
VolcomX311
Legend
Hmmm.... I just ordered some straight bulk Icariin. I'm feeling rather low in the libido department after the RESTORE run, but I'm still on PRIME.
I'm currently in the infamous Formadol Blood Test thread and its got my curiosity peaked, too. I'm thinking its a must try by the end of the month myself.
Inarius
Well-known member
be sure to post up and let me know you like it man.
VolcomX311
Legend
I checked those out and it looks cool, but its an $80-$90 combo for a 20 day run if you go by the suggested dosing. That's a bit costly for me, but thanks for the suggestion.
VolcomX311
Legend
For sure. I'm doubtful I'll be running a log, but I'll be sure to keep you in mind and to send you a PM if thunder strikes.
Inarius
Well-known member
appreciate it man. :smite:
Sam I Am
Banned
PRIMAL-MALE alone would be ideal in this situation. That was what I meant, not MAN-UP. PM is great, and it is on sale.
thundergod
Well-known member
My tub of LG's Anadraulic State GTSE came in today and I remembered you asking about a non-hormonal test-boosting supp to take. Now I have one to advise you on. Really Volcom, this is an all-inclusive supplement. It's everything rolled into one nice product. There's test-boosters, P-Sarms, natty SERMs, and gh releasers also. Plus a great energy kick for your workouts.
This is one product I feel confident in recommending to others. :thumbsup:
VolcomX311
Legend
LOL, will go look at NP now.
TheLastRonin
Active member
Can't wait for mine :AR15firing:
Silver3CSRT8
Well-known member
I was very happy with the 2 scoops prior to yesterday's workout. I have an indoor soccer game tonight at 10:30 (extra cardio) so I might take a scoop around 9PM to give me that extra rush. I don't want to be too wired though that I can't sleep.
thundergod
Well-known member
Yeah, Blue-Up is a solid product. I've used it maybe 3 times in the past for PCT's. I make my own test-boosters from bulk powders these days. Cheaper and I can control the dosages precisely.
He's taking 2 scoops of LG's Anadraulic State GTSE.
It's da bomb, big TomKat!!
:redeemerwhore:
thundergod
Well-known member
MY METHOD......MENTAL MADNESS!!!:crazy::Eyecrazy::stupid:
I'm sitting here slipping further into self-hypnosis. Imagining that I'm all-powerful, supremely confident, and totally capable of accomplishing the task set before me. NOTHING shall deter me from my goal this morning.
And that goal is: COMPLETE AND UTTER DOMINATION!!!:aargh::twisted:
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I'm sitting here slipping further into self-hypnosis. Imagining that I'm all-powerful, supremely confident, and totally capable of accomplishing the task set before me. NOTHING shall deter me from my goal this morning.
And that goal is: COMPLETE AND UTTER DOMINATION!!!:aargh::twisted:
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SilentBob187
Well-known member
Silver3CSRT8
Well-known member
2 scoops of Anadraulic State GT.
thundergod
Well-known member
DESTRUCTION AT DAWN!!Invalid Link Removed
1 hour before this workout I downed 3 scoops of the Anadraulic State GTSE along with 4 caps of Hemodraulix just for good measure. Then the fire was stoked. Aggression began welling up within me like a geyser longing to explode!! :zx11pissed:
The beast within was pulling fiercely at the psychological chains that seek to hold him at bay. He longed to be released and unleashed. I set the monster free!!!:twisted:
THE BREAKDOWN ON THE TAKEDOWN:
SHOULDERS
Machiine Shoulder Presses--100X12, 170X10, DC Rest-Pause: 270X10-5-3=18 total reps. Immediate drop to 200X14. Felt really strong on these. Pushing hard. :yup:
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
One-Arm DB Side Laterals--25X12, 50X12, immediate drop to 30X14.
One-Arm DB Presses--25X12, 50X12, immediae drop to 30X15. Once again these are done with no rest in between. I hit up a set of the laterals and without setting the DB down, I immediately cleaned it and went straight into the shoulder presses. Very intense stuff here. Not for the weak-of-heart. :nono2:
SUPER SET ACTION:
One-Arm Upper Pulley Rear Laterals--30X12, 60X12, immediate drop to 40X11.
One-Arm Cable Front Laterals--30X12, 60X12, immediate drop to 40X9. Of course being supersets, these are performed back to back with no rest in between. I did a set of the rear laterals and then immediately did a set of the front laterals. Then to make it even more intense, I dropped the weight immediately after the first set and went straight into the second drop set with no rest at all. My delts were ready to explode after these. This is in reality 4 work sets with no rest between any of them!! :saeek:
QUADS
2 sets of light leg extensions to warm up the quads. 100x15, 100x15.
Hack Squats--160X12, 250X10, 430X12, immediate drop to 350X14. I was exhorting myself to get on down deeper and take the pain. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. Man-up!! :drillsergeant:
Seated Leg Presses--200X15, 300X15, 700X14, immediate drop to 500X22. Wow. What gut-busting effort displayed here. I blocked out the pain and fatigue and pressed away like my very life depended on it. :yo:
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
Leg Extensions--80X15, 130X15, 200X14.
Zercher Squats--135X12, 155X10, 225X10. Sets done back to back with no rest between. And man oh man, what insanity this was. I was intending to do 2 of these pre-exhaust sets, but after that one heavy ass work set, I called the dogs in on this trip. Whew.....spent. ha ha Zerchers are freakin' brutal!! :aargh:
HAMSTRINGS
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
Lying Leg Curls--60X12, 90X10, 140X12, 140X12.
Stiff-Legged DB Deadlifts--30'sX12, 40'sX10, 80'sX10, 80'sX10. I knew that these 2 work sets would be all that I needed to pound them hammies into complete submission. No mercy!! :smite:
CALVES
Seated Calf Presses On Leg Press Machine--200X20, 400X24, 450X20. Straight sets here with slow and controlled reps to blast away at my stubborn calves. They have no option now but to recover and grow!!:fing02:
This was a very productive workout. One of those that you just know you did your best and that providing you rest and eat correctly, there's no way you can help but grow and get stronger from this type of intensity.
BATTLE ON MY WARRIOR BROTHERS!!
Invalid Link Removed
1 hour before this workout I downed 3 scoops of the Anadraulic State GTSE along with 4 caps of Hemodraulix just for good measure. Then the fire was stoked. Aggression began welling up within me like a geyser longing to explode!! :zx11pissed:
The beast within was pulling fiercely at the psychological chains that seek to hold him at bay. He longed to be released and unleashed. I set the monster free!!!:twisted:
THE BREAKDOWN ON THE TAKEDOWN:
SHOULDERS
Machiine Shoulder Presses--100X12, 170X10, DC Rest-Pause: 270X10-5-3=18 total reps. Immediate drop to 200X14. Felt really strong on these. Pushing hard. :yup:
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
One-Arm DB Side Laterals--25X12, 50X12, immediate drop to 30X14.
One-Arm DB Presses--25X12, 50X12, immediae drop to 30X15. Once again these are done with no rest in between. I hit up a set of the laterals and without setting the DB down, I immediately cleaned it and went straight into the shoulder presses. Very intense stuff here. Not for the weak-of-heart. :nono2:
SUPER SET ACTION:
One-Arm Upper Pulley Rear Laterals--30X12, 60X12, immediate drop to 40X11.
One-Arm Cable Front Laterals--30X12, 60X12, immediate drop to 40X9. Of course being supersets, these are performed back to back with no rest in between. I did a set of the rear laterals and then immediately did a set of the front laterals. Then to make it even more intense, I dropped the weight immediately after the first set and went straight into the second drop set with no rest at all. My delts were ready to explode after these. This is in reality 4 work sets with no rest between any of them!! :saeek:
QUADS
2 sets of light leg extensions to warm up the quads. 100x15, 100x15.
Hack Squats--160X12, 250X10, 430X12, immediate drop to 350X14. I was exhorting myself to get on down deeper and take the pain. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. Man-up!! :drillsergeant:
Seated Leg Presses--200X15, 300X15, 700X14, immediate drop to 500X22. Wow. What gut-busting effort displayed here. I blocked out the pain and fatigue and pressed away like my very life depended on it. :yo:
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
Leg Extensions--80X15, 130X15, 200X14.
Zercher Squats--135X12, 155X10, 225X10. Sets done back to back with no rest between. And man oh man, what insanity this was. I was intending to do 2 of these pre-exhaust sets, but after that one heavy ass work set, I called the dogs in on this trip. Whew.....spent. ha ha Zerchers are freakin' brutal!! :aargh:
HAMSTRINGS
PRE-EXHAUST ACTION:
Lying Leg Curls--60X12, 90X10, 140X12, 140X12.
Stiff-Legged DB Deadlifts--30'sX12, 40'sX10, 80'sX10, 80'sX10. I knew that these 2 work sets would be all that I needed to pound them hammies into complete submission. No mercy!! :smite:
CALVES
Seated Calf Presses On Leg Press Machine--200X20, 400X24, 450X20. Straight sets here with slow and controlled reps to blast away at my stubborn calves. They have no option now but to recover and grow!!:fing02:
This was a very productive workout. One of those that you just know you did your best and that providing you rest and eat correctly, there's no way you can help but grow and get stronger from this type of intensity.
BATTLE ON MY WARRIOR BROTHERS!!
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thundergod
Well-known member
CYCLE DAY 36
5 weeks into this cycle now. Everything is going better than I even anticipated. Up 8lbs. in lean muscle mass.
Strength: Significant increase. Getting stronger from workout to workout. Time to keep adding the weight.
Libido: Very high. Injectable Test is everything I had heard it was in this department. Horn-dog overdrive!!:drive:
Well-Being: Mood has never been better. Confident and assured. Very warrior-dominant. I know that alpha-male gets overused, so I use this term. I like it better anyway.
Appetite: High. I have to keep the reigns pulled tightly on this. I just keep pounding down the protein to satisfy the hunger pangs.
Recovery: Sky-high. Seems almost instantaneous. I can't wait until the next workout to finally roll around. I'm psyched and ready for each and every one.
Stamina: Very high. I didn't expect such endurance from Test. And the pumps are ridiculous. I'm guessing from an increase in RBC or red blood cell count. More blood being forced into the muscles resulting in gi-normous pumps!
No bad sides to report. Unless you consider a little back and shoulder acne a bad thing. I don't mind it. Skin's a little oily as well. Signs of test increases.
I wouldn't change a thing with this cycle. I planned this one out for a very long time.
I hope this whetted your appetite for answers bro. This is one awesome ride!! And it's only half way into the cycle too :fing02:
edwitt
Well-known member
Hell yea!!!!!!!! Wet like a biiich on heat
VolcomX311
Legend
Very enthusiastic report. Sounds like you're having a fricken blast.
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thundergod
Well-known member
All dat and da proverbial bag o chips, bro. Fo rizzle.....:yup:
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VolcomX311
Legend
I wished I could have chips right now.... I'm cutting right now and my low, low carb diet is making me feel like a bitch at the gym. I haven't dead lifted since my cut yet, but I'm thinking about carbing up before that venture. What do you think? Or maybe just an intra gatoraid or protein w/carbs shake.
Inarius
Well-known member
I think you should look into carb cycling. Justin Harris swears by it.... oh yeah and I vote for the carb up.
MrKleen73
Legend
First TG, FUGGIN PHENOMINAL WORKOUT BROTHER!!!!!!
How long have you been low carbing it for? If not for 3 weeks then definitely do not do the carb up... It takes about 2-3 weeks for the body to make the switch over to fats as energy. Any carb ups you do before your body has completed the shift will prolong it, prolonging the feelings of lethargy and weakness. Try getting some EVCO or straight MCT Oil to use for fuel before you rworkouts. It is easier for the body to use MCT's for energy than any other kind of fat. It will also help you complete the shift to fat burning more.
After that incorporate your carb up days.
How long have you been low carbing it for? If not for 3 weeks then definitely do not do the carb up... It takes about 2-3 weeks for the body to make the switch over to fats as energy. Any carb ups you do before your body has completed the shift will prolong it, prolonging the feelings of lethargy and weakness. Try getting some EVCO or straight MCT Oil to use for fuel before you rworkouts. It is easier for the body to use MCT's for energy than any other kind of fat. It will also help you complete the shift to fat burning more.
After that incorporate your carb up days.
VolcomX311
Legend
Thanks for the tip Kleen. I'm only two weeks in, so I'll just deal and I'm all over the oils. Fish, Sesamin and Conjugated Linoleic Acid.
MrKleen73
Legend
One of the best things about lower carb diets is the predictability of them. Everyone handles carbs so much differently that predicability is not there. That and they are convenient to follow and never leave you feeling bloated.
hman85
Well-known member
Low carbs makes me so weak it's ridiculous.
Silver3CSRT8
Well-known member
I thought I read that Coconut Oil with drop you out of ketosis. Is that not the case?