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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

I have counted protein for ten years and total calories over five years now.

You keep learning and learning and it makes all the difference in the world. before I used anything hormonal I got big and built a good base by eating , lifting **** heavy weights (even more than I lift on certain lifts like squats and arms-my body was younger and could take it) That said, there is a quite a difference when on hormones and off in regards to nutrition. When guys comes off and go on; they need to keep this in mind and continually keep learning what works for you.

One of the reasons a person can get great pumps on low carbs on anabolics is the anabolics hormones make it easy to get a pump. For a natty because Ive done natural bodybuilding, no carbs= hard to get a pump-specially pre contest.

my past competition I came down from 225 to 205 and the average day was maybe 2200 on top of cardio and training. On average depending on that day 1900- 2700. the begin of the prep i was at 3,ooo calories starying the diet. I recomend everyone keep track on their offseason calorie count because there is a formula in Chris Acetos Championship Bodybuilding book so you know how many calories to start at contest prep , instead of second guessing- of course keep coming down as contest time approaches, if that is whats needed


my biggest learning this time around was for me to keep protein up to 2 grams of protein per lb, when dieting hard! 1.5 grams and low carbs I lost muscle, 2 grams kept it and even gained some.
 
live to lift said:
When doing lean gains following a cutting protocol you follow a -35% + 10% meaning on non workout days yo eat 35% below maintenance and on lifting days its 10% above maintance there is a huge thread on this not trying to be rude but have u even read it
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I haven't read it, thanks for letting me know because I have read the lean gains guide and a few other of things on LG.com and I couldn't for the life of me figure out where my calorie deficit needed to be. I'll try and find it. Whats the title of the thread?
 
Vipersg123 said:
I haven't read it, thanks for letting me know because I have read the lean gains guide and a few other of things on LG.com and I couldn't for the life of me figure out where my calorie deficit needed to be. I'll try and find it. Whats the title of the thread?
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Go to rippedbody.jp/2011/10/23/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/
 
live to lift said:
Go to rippedbody.jp/2011/10/23/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/
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Hey bro, nice find. I just bookmarked this for later, but from my initial scan it looks like a great piece of info for those thinking about to start or those tweaking their lean gains protocol.
 
John Smeton said:
my biggest learning this time around was for me to keep protein up to 2 grams of protein per lb, when dieting hard! 1.5 grams and low carbs I lost muscle, 2 grams kept it and even gained some.
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Agreed, your finding here is shared by many top pro nutritioninsts (like Skip, Shelby Starnes, drawing a blank now with this other guy I'm thinking about).
 
Starting a recovery month,1st completly off,then light cardio2nd,strongman type routine 3-4th.Im about 95%positive im overtrained as my workouts had me hitting overreaching by the end of a 3week cycle,anyway to many signs and so on.

Im getting alot of fatigue after i eat(even just protein)so my ? is would this diet plan work for me in this state ?Cortisol is screwed up from overtraining,seems pretty much easy to do not to many ??'s there want to still eat clean and so forth im already in high 7 low 8%b/f range got fat and more difined at the same time some how?
 
67nova said:
Starting a recovery month,1st completly off,then light cardio2nd,strongman type routine 3-4th.Im about 95%positive im overtrained as my workouts had me hitting overreaching by the end of a 3week cycle,anyway to many signs and so on.

Im getting alot of fatigue after i eat(even just protein)so my ? is would this diet plan work for me in this state ?Cortisol is screwed up from overtraining,seems pretty much easy to do not to many ??'s there want to still eat clean and so forth im already in high 7 low 8%b/f range got fat and more difined at the same time some how?
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Not real sure what your exact question is man, but yes, you can use IF/Leangains whenever you want - make it fit into your lifestyle. The basic part is fasting for 16+ hours with an 8 hour eating window. You can do 16/8, 17/7, 18/6 - whatever.

If you are recovering, I would suggest eating at least at maintenance. If your overtrained, your body needs food to help recovery - so don't skimp. Eating the proper amount of food in an 8 hour window instead of a 16 hour window is not going to slow your recovery. You need food and sleep.
 
audix2359 said:
Not real sure what your exact question is man, but yes, you can use IF/Leangains whenever you want - make it fit into your lifestyle. The basic part is fasting for 16+ hours with an 8 hour eating window. You can do 16/8, 17/7, 18/6 - whatever.

If you are recovering, I would suggest eating at least at maintenance. If your overtrained, your body needs food to help recovery - so don't skimp. Eating the proper amount of food in an 8 hour window instead of a 16 hour window is not going to slow your recovery. You need food and sleep.
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My ? is with the state im in(cortisol,heaviness,fatigue,ect...)will this diet help or hurt my recovery?
 
I'm sorry if this is answered in the thread already, but I was hoping to get some opinions on bcaa and glutamine use during fasting hours. Usually on a w/o day I will have 5g bcaa pre w/o at 445am, 5g during, 10g after at 630 with 5g glutamine. Then 10g 2 hours later at 830am, and another 10g 2 hours after that at around 1030am. Then I break my fast at noon.

Is the 180 cals in the bcaas and glutamine enough to compromise the benefits of the fast, or no?

I just started IF a couple weeks ago and absolutely LOVE it!!
 
67nova said:
My ? is with the state im in(cortisol,heaviness,fatigue,ect...)will this diet help or hurt my recovery?
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probably hurt, but its hard to say. its a significant change, which probably isn't the best idea for you dietarily at the moment. I'd be focusing on changing your workout
 
EasyEJL said:
probably hurt, but its hard to say. its a significant change, which probably isn't the best idea for you dietarily at the moment. I'd be focusing on changing your workout
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I wouldnt be that concerned but i wake up(changing this to later)@4:30am and by 5-5:15 my stomachs rumbling,let alone having to go for another 8+hours.Breakfast doesnt make me hungry life does!Mybe i'll give it ago when im in a better state(mentally/physically)and not training yet will really add to the waiting to eat.
 
live to lift said:
Go to rippedbody.jp/2011/10/23/how-to-calculate-leangains-macros/
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Probably best macro site for calculating kcal needs
 
ok fellas tell me if I have this right....
my macros are 200 protein 300 carbs and 100 fat...
I start my fast at midnight to 1200. drinking bcaa 60 g all day with 30 g glutamine.
after 1200 I eat start eating my protein and fat in small quantities till I work out... workouts are at 1500.. end at 1700... then I stuff all my cals in. till 2200? could I push it too 2300?
I have also another question... what if you were on peptides. could you still take them at pre post and night?
I was trying to find a cheap bcaas. I saw the bulk bcaas in nutraplanet. but its not flavored... any ideas on flavoring?
 
madds87 said:
ok fellas tell me if I have this right....
my macros are 200 protein 300 carbs and 100 fat...
I start my fast at midnight to 1200. drinking bcaa 60 g all day with 30 g glutamine.
after 1200 I eat start eating my protein and fat in small quantities till I work out... workouts are at 1500.. end at 1700... then I stuff all my cals in. till 2200? could I push it too 2300?
I have also another question... what if you were on peptides. could you still take them at pre post and night?
I was trying to find a cheap bcaas. I saw the bulk bcaas in nutraplanet. but its not flavored... any ideas on flavoring?
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Bulk modern bcaas come in flavors. Kilo for $25
 
madds87 said:
ok fellas tell me if I have this right....
my macros are 200 protein 300 carbs and 100 fat...
I start my fast at midnight to 1200. drinking bcaa 60 g all day with 30 g glutamine.
after 1200 I eat start eating my protein and fat in small quantities till I work out... workouts are at 1500.. end at 1700... then I stuff all my cals in. till 2200? could I push it too 2300?
I have also another question... what if you were on peptides. could you still take them at pre post and night?
I was trying to find a cheap bcaas. I saw the bulk bcaas in nutraplanet. but its not flavored... any ideas on flavoring?
Click to expand...

Sigh...you could save a lot of money by only using the BCAAs when training fasted, and every 2 hours until your first real meal. On non workout days they are not needed. If your training in the middle of your feeding window your don't need them at all.
 
Distilled Water said:
After my carb rebound phase (post contest) I'm going to give this a try on a bulk. Still trying to rap my mind of determining calories, for each day and workout splits.
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I know we have been talking on another post destilled... but this is the diet I have actually been following... I was wondering what other diets yall do in the other post... but I taking your macros recommendation but following the cbl diet... tomohawk has a log about it.... hes been talking me through the diet.... its a sweet diet... been doing it for three months now...
 
madds87 said:
I know we have been talking on another post destilled... but this is the diet I have actually been following... I was wondering what other diets yall do in the other post... but I taking your macros recommendation but following the cbl diet... tomohawk has a log about it.... hes been talking me through the diet.... its a sweet diet... been doing it for three months now...
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You're the one who sparked my interest about it.

It's similar to what DC diet principles are I guess. At least when I follow my DC routine (not this past winter, went heavier on carbs & not good)

I don't know if I would follow it for cutting. I just can't get past my "old school dieting" mental block but if it's working well for you, by all means, keep at it! Who knows, maybe next prep I'll use it....
 
im givimg it a little longer... see if my scale drops any... I gotta get down too 163.... ive been taking out carbs but nothing is moving... im getting more trim in the waist... but no weight changes.... makes me scratch my head a little lol
 
madds87 said:
im givimg it a little longer... see if my scale drops any... I gotta get down too 163.... ive been taking out carbs but nothing is moving... im getting more trim in the waist... but no weight changes.... makes me scratch my head a little lol
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Recomping most likely.
Use mirror not scale
 
I'm about to start this IF tomorrow, and I have a quick question..... I know anything over 50 calories would be c onsidered breaking the fast, so would it be ok for me to have a serving of Orange Oxi Omega Greens (15 cals) with two Oximega fish oils (18cals) first thing in the morning? Thanks!
 
dfrancin said:
I'm about to start this IF tomorrow, and I have a quick question..... I know anything over 50 calories would be c onsidered breaking the fast, so would it be ok for me to have a serving of Orange Oxi Omega Greens (15 cals) with two Oximega fish oils (18cals) first thing in the morning? Thanks!
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It's ok.
Fish oil pre training? Take with 2g alcar.
 
I'm doing a recomp. I started doing Lean Gains/IF about 2 weeks ago and already love it. Was thinking about posting a log, but Im not sure at this point.

Ive had to lose weight to make in weigh in as far back as pop Warner football. So I've worked a lot w my diet from a young age. This by far, has to be the easiest and most efficient. Also, it just makes sense.

The reason I really like it is because often in life, we find ourselves in social situations where it is difficult to pass on food or drink without someone giving you the business. Holidays, bdays, cookouts, visits, weddings, travel, so forth. I hated working so hard to stick to my diet only to have a "cheat day or cheat weekend"

With lean gains I simply follow my macros, limit my calories to 1800-2000 per day, and if I have to, I shift my fasting window to suit a meal I know is scheduled at an event. Had a wedding in lake placid this weekend, and it was easy to fast until rehearsal or wedding dinner knowing I'd be taking on the majority of my caloric intake in those meals. Still lost 3 pounds this weekend and didn't eat clean.

Seems to be working so far. But everybody knows its easy to shed weight in the beginning. I'll let you guys know how it goes when e losses don't come so easy.
 
Sigh...you could save a lot of money by only using the BCAAs when training fasted, and every 2 hours until your first real meal. On non workout days they are not needed. If your training in the middle of your feeding window your don't need them at all.
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people (including me) are so used to eating every few hours... We get nervous....
 
I am about 3 weeks in to LG. First 2 weeks I was cycling carbs on workout(higher) and non workout days (lower) each day at about maintenance. Since this weekend I have been doing that on top of much lower calories total on non workout days. I haven't lost a pound, but everyone is asking if I am losing weight and that I look good. Pretty sweet, although I think after this week I will begin to drop now that calories are low on non w/o days. Just an update :)
 
I know how you feel. I have not lost a pound since starting LG. been doing it for several weeks. But when I look in the mirror I can see subtle differences.
 
Vipersg123 said:
I am about 3 weeks in to LG. First 2 weeks I was cycling carbs on workout(higher) and non workout days (lower) each day at about maintenance. Since this weekend I have been doing that on top of much lower calories total on non workout days. I haven't lost a pound, but everyone is asking if I am losing weight and that I look good. Pretty sweet, although I think after this week I will begin to drop now that calories are low on non w/o days. Just an update :)
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how has your streng been?
 
Speaking of fasted workouts and low cal diets...

Check this sh!t out

Invalid Link Removed

Thought all you IF folks would like this.

"Flies on the low-calorie diet showed a 100 percent increase in the release of brain chemicals, which are called neurotransmitters, from their neurons. These chemicals carry signals from one nerve cell to another across gaps called synapses."

"Diet restriction increased the neurotransmitters released at synapses called neuromuscular junctions"
 
Just a quick question, maybe someone can steer me in the right direction.

I'm shooting for about 3000 cals on workout days and confused over fat intake.

I understand fat intake should be low, but how low? In the sample diet iv been working on its around 80grams, is that too high? I have a feeling it is.
 
I usually shoot for 50-60. And I'm consuming right about 3000 cals on w/o days as well. I can hardly handle all the calories left over from that as that's only about 450-540 calories from fat. So that still leaves you with about 2500 left in just protein and carbs. At 500 cals from fats that's roughly 17% of cals from fat. That leaves plenty of room for your carbs and protein. And like I said before, sometimes on days where I'm busy, I just can't get all my cals in. So there is still plenty of room for your other macros. I think 80 might be on the high end. But I know the keto guys most likely consume at least that much.

Since there is more caloric weight carried along with fats, it will be easier to reach your calorie goal with less pure volume of food.
 
jswain34 said:
I usually shoot for 50-60. And I'm consuming right about 3000 cals on w/o days as well. I can hardly handle all the calories left over from that as that's only about 450-540 calories from fat. So that still leaves you with about 2500 left in just protein and carbs. At 500 cals from fats that's roughly 17% of cals from fat. That leaves plenty of room for your carbs and protein. And like I said before, sometimes on days where I'm busy, I just can't get all my cals in. So there is still plenty of room for your other macros. I think 80 might be on the high end. But I know the keto guys most likely consume at least that much.

Since there is more caloric weight carried along with fats, it will be easier to reach your calorie goal with less pure volume of food.
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Thats for your response, I played around with foods some in my calculator and got fat down to about 60grams right now, will try for 50, but think 60 will be fine.
 
is the recomp -20 rest days/+20 w/o days meant for weight loss ? or would a -30/-10 plan be better for that ? also how can you loose weight on the recomp plan if your doing +20 on maintenance calories..don't you have to be in a calorie deficit ? thanks
 
What I'm wondering is how the heck you guys are getting 60% of your cals in that 6hr post workout meal?!?!? Keeping fat that low, just throwing my aloof. I know guys drink their carbs, to me, that's no fun.

I also know most of you guys are cutting also so getting in 2,000 calories is your daily total, that's going to be my post workout meal 4x's/week.
 
Distilled Water said:
What I'm wondering is how the heck you guys are getting 60% of your cals in that 6hr post workout meal?!?!? Keeping fat that low, just throwing my aloof. I know guys drink their carbs, to me, that's no fun.

I also know most of you guys are cutting also so getting in 2,000 calories is your daily total, that's going to be my post workout meal 4x's/week.
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I question this too, my fat always ends up higher
 
Distilled Water said:
What I'm wondering is how the heck you guys are getting 60% of your cals in that 6hr post workout meal?!?!? Keeping fat that low, just throwing my aloof. I know guys drink their carbs, to me, that's no fun.

I also know most of you guys are cutting also so getting in 2,000 calories is your daily total, that's going to be my post workout meal 4x's/week.
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1lb chicken 1 serving low fat shredded cheese and 3 tbsp low fat sour creme mmmmmm nom nom nom
 
Distilled Water said:
What I'm wondering is how the heck you guys are getting 60% of your cals in that 6hr post workout meal?!?!? Keeping fat that low, just throwing my aloof. I know guys drink their carbs, to me, that's no fun.

I also know most of you guys are cutting also so getting in 2,000 calories is your daily total, that's going to be my post workout meal 4x's/week.
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I'm not sure Im reading ur post correctly. Are you saying that your post workout meal alone is 2k cals?

High calorie clean diets require a lot of eating. If you are really trying to stick to your macros and keep it clean, you basically have to force feed yourself. No way around gettingIf you aren't as concerned with keeping it clean, olive oil is a very very easy way to add calories to almost everything. Tons of fat in it though.

Pasta, rice, potatoes are all high calorie low fat food. And you get to eat not drink your carbs.
 
Should you say drinking your carbs is bad? What about a liquid fast for a day? Protein shakes. Fruit juices and oils such as extra virgin and fish oil. Would still hit my macros through it or is that bad?
 
LG doesn't prmote drinking your carbs, it says you should eat them whenever possible. Load up on calorie dense foods in the PWO window. It doesn't always have to be super clean either, one example on the LG site of someones post workout nutrition was three giant bowls of some fruity cereal and some protein shakes and the guy was ripped.
 
Omg... I can eat cereal again????

Sent from my Thunderbolt using AM for Android!
 
live to lift said:
1lb chicken 1 serving low fat shredded cheese and 3 tbsp low fat sour creme mmmmmm nom nom nom
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Lol, you have no idea how good that sounds right now! I was thinking BBQ chicken sandwiches on Ezekiel buns.



Johnnyboy004 said:
I'm not sure Im reading ur post correctly. Are you saying that your post workout meal alone is 2k cals?

High calorie clean diets require a lot of eating. If you are really trying to stick to your macros and keep it clean, you basically have to force feed yourself. No way around gettingIf you aren't as concerned with keeping it clean, olive oil is a very very easy way to add calories to almost everything. Tons of fat in it though.

Pasta, rice, potatoes are all high calorie low fat food. And you get to eat not drink your carbs.
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Yes sir, 2k is correct. Keeping fat down would be my concern. Trying to get 2k with under 25gr fat is a lot of clean food. Guess I'll just have to keep playin with recipes.
 
what do you all think of Layne's new research findings...
CANT POST LINKS BC OF LACK OF POSTS ON THIS FORUM, BUT CHECK OUT YOUTUBE: "Layne Norton 2012 ISSN Research Poster Presentation"

For those who don't wanna watch the video: he explains the results of an 11 week study on rats, eating the same calories/macronutrients with only difference between 2 of 3 groups (1 control group) being the total protein % in the meals. in group 2 the meals were all the same %. In group 3, the meals were 15%, 15% and 70%. (similar to our IF diets)

The results show that total protein synthesis for the day was much lower in the low, low, high group than in the evenly distributed group.
The large protein meal at the end of the day did add up to the same total nitrogen as the evenly distributed meals, but did not provide a larger protein synthetic response compared to a smaller protein meal.

My take on this: I think he's basically saying, the myth of "you cant digest more than 30g of protein" isnt true per say, but its prolly somewhat close to the truth. I mean not the 30g bit, but eating a 150g at a time, seems to not make much of a difference when compared to a meal half the size. :( FML I'm trying to bulk w/ IF right now....
 
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