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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

just discovered leangains a few days ago, and it's awesome! read almost the entire leangains website already!

here's a question, though, why does Berkham advocate a feeding window of 10 hrs for women (vs 8 hrs for men)? I can't find an explanation for that anywhere, neither the website, nor this thread, nor on the forum. Does anyone know?
 
Obviously because women are way more awesome than men.
 
CuriousYogurt said:
just discovered leangains a few days ago, and it's awesome! read almost the entire leangains website already!

here's a question, though, why does Berkham advocate a feeding window of 10 hrs for women (vs 8 hrs for men)? I can't find an explanation for that anywhere, neither the website, nor this thread, nor on the forum. Does anyone know?
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Martin is using his experience with training both female and male clients to make that recommendation. He feels that women typically adjust better to a 10 hour feeding window. This is not set in stone though and you can try 10 hours and then work your way to 8 hours if you want. I would recommend starting higher and then shortening your window to anyone male or female when you are first trying leangains.
 
If cortisol is a problem, should one consider leangains?
 
lonewolf0420 said:
Are you guys noticing more of a visual transformation than a change in the numbers on the scale, or both?
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Im seeing more definition upper body but abs are staying pretty similar atm. Different places lose fat easier i guess
 
inda11 said:
Im seeing more definition upper body but abs are staying pretty similar atm. Different places lose fat easier i guess
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Abs are usually the last place that you will see the fat come off and the first place it is stored as well
 
Abs are always the last place I lose...lower abs more specifically...pain in the A$$
 
TurningGreen said:
Abs are always the last place I lose...lower abs more specifically...pain in the A$$
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I dieted last summer and got an amazing 4 pack but just couldn't lose the fat off bottom two. That's why inn trying lean gains this summer
 
CuriousYogurt said:
just discovered leangains a few days ago, and it's awesome! read almost the entire leangains website already!

here's a question, though, why does Berkham advocate a feeding window of 10 hrs for women (vs 8 hrs for men)? I can't find an explanation for that anywhere, neither the website, nor this thread, nor on the forum. Does anyone know?
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Because some(many. Lol) women tend to get cranky/bitchy with longer fasts.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Because some(many. Lol) women tend to get cranky/bitchy with longer fasts.
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Reality is that they are that way during the whole fast.....and the whole feeding window as well...lol
 
I'm taking the week off gym because i have a couple minor injuries cropping up. Shall i stay at reduced calories of -35% until next gym session?
 
inda11 said:
I'm taking the week off gym because i have a couple minor injuries cropping up. Shall i stay at reduced calories of -35% until next gym session?
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Eat at maintenance to allow proper nutrient intake and recovery.just take a walk to get fresh air and relax and stay slightly active
 
inda11 said:
I'm taking the week off gym because i have a couple minor injuries cropping up. Shall i stay at reduced calories of -35% until next gym session?
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Injuries or not.. I just can't stay out of the gym for a week! When I attempt that I'll atleast sneak in a mid-week work out. Depending on the injuries I'd still recommend going in, maybe doing some core work, or a light full body, and include some HIIT cardio just to keep the metabolism boosted and burn some extra cals.
 
runner_79 said:
Eat at maintenance to allow proper nutrient intake and recovery.just take a walk to get fresh air and relax and stay slightly active
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x2 on this advice. And if you've got some nagging injuries, I'd say stay out of the gym for a week. Rest, recover, recharge and come back stronger.
 
sjm said:
Injuries or not.. I just can't stay out of the gym for a week! When I attempt that I'll atleast sneak in a mid-week work out. Depending on the injuries I'd still recommend going in, maybe doing some core work, or a light full body, and include some HIIT cardio just to keep the metabolism boosted and burn some extra cals.
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im the sme way, i dont see how liht weight woudl hurt you more......if anything i woudl think it woudl help recovery, et the blood flowin a little ya know
 
Hi AM! Noobie here and I have a few questions if someone wouldn't mind answering them. :)

I'm training for fat loss, usually in the evening (5-6 pm), so I'm eating below maintenance.
I wake up around 6 a.m. and since I train in the evening, is it recommended that I train fasted or eat a small meal as a pre-wo while I wait for my BCAA to arrive?
What would a pre-wo meal consist of?
Is this the schedule that I follow? And does the same eating routine apply for cardio/HIIT days?

Sample:
12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
 
Hey all,

I'm new to anabolicminds and stumbled upon it while Googling info on Leangains. I just read through every one of these posts (took forever) and I have to say that this is one of the most supportive and welcoming sites I've seen. Thank you all for the wealth of information and individual perspectives. You helped me finally settle the long-standing debate I've been having about whether to use BCAA's or not (not). Anyway, for what its worth, I'll throw my personal experience with IF into the mix.

Long story long, I've been playing around with IF for about 3 years now, using both Berkhan's 16 hour fasts and Pilon's 24 hour fasts, and it really is, hands down, the easiest way I have found to live life and keep weight under check long-term. I've always been pretty lean, but about 3 years ago I started a new job that is crazy stressful and over the course of 9 months put on about 15 lb of junk. Using IF, I quickly dropped the 15, plus another 5, in about 3 months and have maintained for 2 years now. For the past 2 years, the scale has remained the same, but my strength has skyrocketed and I notice a big difference in the mirror. Berkhan's "slow and steady" approach is no BS and has gotten me to stop obsessing about being fit for a specific vacation or event and start focusing on long-term, permanent gains.

The best part of IF, for me, is that I don't have to torment over macros if I don't want to, or worry about how clean everything is going in. If I want to indulge, I do, and use the fast to make up for it, rather than the treadmill. Put simply, IF has allowed me to live life and enjoy my family and friends more fully. It has freed me from always being the "fitness freak" of the group. Example, summer for me has historically been a very difficult time to maintain a healthy plan. Non-stop social gatherings such as BBQ's, pool parties, day-trips to the beach with the kids, etc., make dieting maddening. On top of that, I'm married to a woman with a super-human metabolism who can crush a basket of chicken wings with her favorite seasonal beer and loves her daily glass or two of red-wine. I also have three young kids who frequently need daddy's help polishing off their kids menu dinner or "fixing" their ice cream cone before its falls to the ground. Before IF, my approach was typically to succumb to temptation more than I'd like to, feel guilty about it, then make up for it all with intense cardio and super-strict dieting until the next mishap. Its really not a fun way to live. With IF, Berkhan and Pilon have taught me that I can enjoy some social eating with my friends and family without beating the $hit out of myself. Its just a matter of checks and balances.

Despite my personal success with IF, until very recently (this week), I have not comply to or even bothered with Berkhan's macronutrient suggestions. I really just focused on keeping my weekly (not daily) calories under check. So some days were feasts, while others were fasts. Now, I'm ready to see what some strict adherence will do to my physique. I estimate that I'm somewhere between 9-10% bf right now (the profile pic is very recent) and would love to see how low I can go. First I need to figure out my maintenance, which I've never done in my life. I'm guessing 2400 to start. If anyone thinks otherwise, please let me know. Here are some stats.

Height/Weight - 5"11/168lb
Activity - daily morning workout consisting of heavy weights 3-4 days per week and 20-30 min of either HIIT or slow steady cardio on "off days," lightly active desk job, chase kids around after work
Estimated Maintenance - 2400 calories (?)
Cut Plan - 1500 off days / 2700 training days (roughly -35/+10)

Again, though, I have no idea if 2400 is my actual maintenance. I guess I'll find out. If you've read this far and have any input on my maintenance, I'd love to hear it.

Thats it, I'll let you know how things go!
 
gokix811 said:
Hi AM! Noobie here and I have a few questions if someone wouldn't mind answering them. :)

I'm training for fat loss, usually in the evening (5-6 pm), so I'm eating below maintenance.
I wake up around 6 a.m. and since I train in the evening, is it recommended that I train fasted or eat a small meal as a pre-wo while I wait for my BCAA to arrive?
What would a pre-wo meal consist of?
Is this the schedule that I follow? And does the same eating routine apply for cardio/HIIT days?

Sample:
12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake.
4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal.
8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).
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Training fasted guarantees lower insulin levels, but also reduces performance some, and reduces EPOC (Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption). So its a tradeoff, best to try both ways, decide what feels better for you. A typical pre-workout meal would be low fat, high protein, moderate low glycemic index carbs.

the schedule looks good, and it should be a 7 days a week schedule. you can on non-workout days vary which is the largest meal
 
lonewolf0420 said:
Are you guys noticing more of a visual transformation than a change in the numbers on the scale, or both?
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At first, big changes in the scale (although, I was highly bloated), but not so much lately on the scale. Visually, however, the recomp has not stopped despite the fact that I'm still having some beer and eating less than optimal foods 3-4x/week. I started at about 235 and was down to 220 within 3 weeks, which was mainly water retention with a bit of fat loss. Right now, about 3 months after starting, I'm between 212-215 depending on the day, but the fat around my midsection has not stopped breaking up and strength is still climbing (my total has gone up 145 lbs since I started LG).
 
lonewolf0420 said:
Are you guys noticing more of a visual transformation than a change in the numbers on the scale, or both?
Click to expand...

i'm not seeing much of either - but I've just restarted going back to the gym after almost 6 weeks out, and i'm not particularly cautious on macros or total calories either. given that 4 weeks into that off period I went on vacation for a week to puerto rico and net total for the 6 weeks i'm about 2lbs heavier tells me a LOT. Last year, same vacation, eating + drinking about the same total (just spread all day last year) I gained 5lbs of flubber on the vacation week alone
 
EasyEJL said:
Training fasted guarantees lower insulin levels, but also reduces performance some, and reduces EPOC (Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption). So its a tradeoff, best to try both ways, decide what feels better for you. A typical pre-workout meal would be low fat, high protein, moderate low glycemic index carbs.

the schedule looks good, and it should be a 7 days a week schedule. you can on non-workout days vary which is the largest meal
Click to expand...

Sounds good. I've trained fasted before and my performance definitely takes a hit. I just wonder how it'll be affected once on IF for a few weeks. Usually I have greek yogurt/banana as a pre-wo. I'm thinking of consuming the majority of carbs at night, so should meal 1 be mostly high protein/low fat/low carb? Are cheat days/meals included on IF or are those off limit? Thanks!
 
gokix811 said:
Sounds good. I've trained fasted before and my performance definitely takes a hit. I just wonder how it'll be affected once on IF for a few weeks. Usually I have greek yogurt/banana as a pre-wo. I'm thinking of consuming the majority of carbs at night, so should meal 1 be mostly high protein/low fat/low carb? Are cheat days/meals included on IF or are those off limit? Thanks!
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I'd think making meal one mostly high protein, even including a significant fraction of your daily fats would work good.

In IF/Leangains there really isn't a big cheat day/meal concept, largely because you are a bit more open in terms of choices to begin with. Before I took my recent break in all seriousness hostess cupcakes were one of my primary carb sources. I was slowly gaining muscle while slowly losing fat at that time, reached my peak lean mass at that time. I hit around 206 at 12-13% bodyfat at that point.

If you look at the early studies done on all the health blood markers for intermittent fasting, it was based on ramadan fasting and they all see significant blood marker improvement on insulin sensitivity, cholesterol, growth hormone, etc. You know what some of their primary foods are for Ramadan? honey covered pastries like baklava - things that can get in a bunch of calories in a short time.

So try keeping it in not far out of your total macros on your cheat day, but don't particularly worry about the specific foods
 
EasyEJL said:
I'd think making meal one mostly high protein, even including a significant fraction of your daily fats would work good.

In IF/Leangains there really isn't a big cheat day/meal concept, largely because you are a bit more open in terms of choices to begin with. Before I took my recent break in all seriousness hostess cupcakes were one of my primary carb sources. I was slowly gaining muscle while slowly losing fat at that time, reached my peak lean mass at that time. I hit around 206 at 12-13% bodyfat at that point.

If you look at the early studies done on all the health blood markers for intermittent fasting, it was based on ramadan fasting and they all see significant blood marker improvement on insulin sensitivity, cholesterol, growth hormone, etc. You know what some of their primary foods are for Ramadan? honey covered pastries like baklava - things that can get in a bunch of calories in a short time.

So try keeping it in not far out of your total macros on your cheat day, but don't particularly worry about the specific foods
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I don't remember the last time I had a Hostess cupcake! I like that my food choice isn't severely limited as far as meal 3 is concerned. Very good info that I will be putting in practice, thanks for the feedback Easy! :)
 
mind you i'm not suggesting the cupcakes :D but it does show that you don't have to be as concerned. Better to stick to cleaner eating as much as you can, but then don't stress over a cheat meal or day when convenience trumps clean eating
 
Its biggest plus is that if you end up at someone's birthday party, you don't have to turn down the cake, or feel tortured and do an extra hour of cardio or something crazy like that the next day as you'll still see good results
 
I personally incorporate large refeeds /cheat days when dieting on if. Not so much when I'm worried about growing, mostly because lately everyday is a cheat day.. Lol
 
EasyEJL said:
Its biggest plus is that if you end up at someone's birthday party, you don't have to turn down the cake, or feel tortured and do an extra hour of cardio or something crazy like that the next day as you'll still see good results
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Agree 100% Easy...and with three kids under 7, birthday parties seem to make up a large % of my social life now!
 
This has been great for me regarding being able to live a more normal life. Things like eating at parties, enjoying something out with my son and whats not are really the deal breaker for me.

I still will eat pretty bro during week cause its easiest for me. but on weekends i am all about iifym for most of the day. I have even pushed fasts to 18/19 hours and its been pretty easy. I do want to try to push a fast to 24 hours just to see if i can do it! :) I still loosely log cals on Sundays and Sat is as accurate as I can make it.

I do also include a weekly cheat cause frankly i enjoy that too. I dont binge like I used to but I will have some things I like during a period and just note the things I ate.

normally Sunday is my high eats day. Something I do on Mondays which I try to make and off day, is bring my cals as low as I can to sort of clean up after the weekend.

I noticed I am running around 1800 on off days and around 2400 on days with Saturdays and Sundays each about 3k with a cheat not included. This past weekend I would guess Sunday was prob 4-4.5k cals. I am pushing my off days to go a bit lower to about 1600 which I have 2 off days right now.

in the end I am losing about 2.5 lbs a week but still very high in BF sitting anywhere from 221-223 lbs last week. Figure I need to hit about 200 lbs to be happy. Going to kick it up a notch next week. I will do a deload week and going to try to pretty much eat all low days and take the weekend and eat at my maint, about 3k.

Again, great thread and great concept.
 
Been using a concept that I created for IF. Been working. I am down 10 lbs and have been hitting personal bests in the gym.
 
I think you were eating too low in calories...possibly. Also your cheat days were way too high. Make the cheat about you...not an excuse to gorge yourself. If you are fat then do you really need a cheat that high?

tjwoody said:
This has been great for me regarding being able to live a more normal life. Things like eating at parties, enjoying something out with my son and whats not are really the deal breaker for me.

I still will eat pretty bro during week cause its easiest for me. but on weekends i am all about iifym for most of the day. I have even pushed fasts to 18/19 hours and its been pretty easy. I do want to try to push a fast to 24 hours just to see if i can do it! :) I still loosely log cals on Sundays and Sat is as accurate as I can make it.

I do also include a weekly cheat cause frankly i enjoy that too. I dont binge like I used to but I will have some things I like during a period and just note the things I ate.

normally Sunday is my high eats day. Something I do on Mondays which I try to make and off day, is bring my cals as low as I can to sort of clean up after the weekend.

I noticed I am running around 1800 on off days and around 2400 on days with Saturdays and Sundays each about 3k with a cheat not included. This past weekend I would guess Sunday was prob 4-4.5k cals. I am pushing my off days to go a bit lower to about 1600 which I have 2 off days right now.

in the end I am losing about 2.5 lbs a week but still very high in BF sitting anywhere from 221-223 lbs last week. Figure I need to hit about 200 lbs to be happy. Going to kick it up a notch next week. I will do a deload week and going to try to pretty much eat all low days and take the weekend and eat at my maint, about 3k.

Again, great thread and great concept.
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Future said:
I think you were eating too low in calories...possibly. Also your cheat days were way too high. Make the cheat about you...not an excuse to gorge yourself. If you are fat then do you really need a cheat that high?
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well i am losing each week so will adjust as needed. I eat a bit lower on some days allowing me a bit more other days. Days I do eat more I plan them around weights days. But in the end I should reduce those cheats sure.
 
tjwoody said:
well i am losing each week so will adjust as needed. I eat a bit lower on some days allowing me a bit more other days. Days I do eat more I plan them around weights days. But in the end I should reduce those cheats sure.
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i'd agree with him the 1600/2400 variance is ok, but the 1600-3000 seems a bit much. Cycling the calories is not a bad thing, but you have to figure with that much variance you are likely either adding fat on the 3000 days, or catabolizing muscle on the 1600 days.
 
ill work on fixing it. maybe I will push the fast more on weekends so I can fit in what I want. I used to stick to mostly pro when I knew I was going to have a big carb meal. I will stick with 1600/2400 for now. Well, July 4th I dont know about. lol.
 
Future said:
I am 3800/3300.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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Yea but ur a huge dude mr complete nutrition why are all of you guys jacked that work at that store lol it saddens me when i go in
 
Future said:
I am 3800/3300.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
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Someday I hope to be there too! As I lose weight I may slow the cutting down. Going to go like 1700/2400, give or take for now and see how things go. Will remove cheats after this week. Got a 4th party to hit but will do my best. Prob push the fast to like 18 hours to help.

My issue is balancing the macros right now. I used to be scared of carbs but doing better. I shoot for ~125g on off days and ~225 on days. I would go lower on off days but try to hit some fruit. At least blueberries and strawberries and my carbs numbers include everything, greens and fibers. I shoot for a salad and a few servings of greens and hit least 30g fiber most days.

So far going well. Im past the part of being hungry during the fast.
 
live to lift said:
Yea but ur a huge dude mr complete nutrition why are all of you guys jacked that work at that store lol it saddens me when i go in
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Live to Lift, what are your maintenance and daily goals (on/off days)? You're pretty close to my size...I'm wondering if my 1500/2700 is too low. I know it varies greatly depending on the individual, but I'm curious to see if I'm in the right ball park with my numbers.
 
awebs said:
Live to Lift, what are your maintenance and daily goals (on/off days)? You're pretty close to my size...I'm wondering if my 1500/2700 is too low. I know it varies greatly depending on the individual, but I'm curious to see if I'm in the right ball park with my numbers.
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Yea bro id say thats about what mine is at i eat 1500 and 2600
 
1000 calorie difference is an ok goal to shoot for between your build and burn days, so to speak.
 
Torobestia said:
1000 calorie difference is an ok goal to shoot for between your build and burn days, so to speak.
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thats about as far I see pushing it makes sense. Its not even quite about the difference, but about how far below maintenance the low day is. if your bmr has you at 2400, going much lower than 1800 doesn't make sense in that you are more likely to catabolize muscle at that point. I really think 30% below maintenance is the lowest people should hit. I suppose it also matters whether you are 3 workout days/4 off days vs 5 workout days/2 off days.
 
EasyEJL said:
thats about as far I see pushing it makes sense. Its not even quite about the difference, but about how far below maintenance the low day is. if your bmr has you at 2400, going much lower than 1800 doesn't make sense in that you are more likely to catabolize muscle at that point. I really think 30% below maintenance is the lowest people should hit. I suppose it also matters whether you are 3 workout days/4 off days vs 5 workout days/2 off days.
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Absolutely. Yeah, I was just going off of the -20/+20 and using 2400 as maintenance and doing some head calculations.
 
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