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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

Frank Reynolds said:
Basically when I would work out in the late afternoon I would consume pro/fat at 12pm, intra(3pm) a pro/carb drink(sometimes I just skipped this and had more in my post workout meal), post workout(5pm)pro/carb, and 8pm pro/fat. Off days I may have some carbs with my 5pm meal only, in a small amount.
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But u at least had greens on ur off days right? See I have some Celary and PB for my first meal (along with a chicken salad) on my Off days, rest of the day is pretty much chicken/turkey and green veggies like broccoli, asparagus, avocado (fats) and such, oils on my salad too
 
Red Dog said:
Well I lift 4x on a normal week (M/W/F/Sa), but occasionally when I'm feeling really amped (infrequently) I'll throw in an additional short session on either Tu/Th/Su.

I cheat on Saturday nights, but only take in ~400 additional calories on the other days I lift since I'm on a cut.
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Quick question Red Dog, what cardio are you doing along with this if any? Thanks!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
No I don't count them at all.
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Yeah I heard of ppl doing that ... I do, but if I go over 100-200 calories In a day and I know at least I had about that much from green veggies I don't stress it ... Guess if u don't count em, never do, and if u do, just keep doing it ...
 
I personally never count veggies as CARBs though, I do think about the calorie excess but dont add it to my macro countdown on the carbs since most of them are fibrous carbs. Besides the main benefit of veggies is that they help with micro-nutrients like vitamins and minerals, in a way they are beneficial for detox porpoises too, hence I don't stress on their carb weight , only if I see myself eating extra 300 kCals of veggies is where I worry and say...ok stop it on the veggies for today.
 
Vote4pedro said:
Yeah I heard of ppl doing that ... I do, but if I go over 100-200 calories In a day and I know at least I had about that much from green veggies I don't stress it ... Guess if u don't count em, never do, and if u do, just keep doing it ...
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yeah, doing it consistently one way or the other is all that really matters.
 
F355 said:
Do you guys think incorporating a TKD diet on a LG/IF routine is overkill? I'm on day 5 of TKD and for some reason, it's not as bad as when I tried to attempt this back in January. The whole point of LG is to regulate insulin and leptin, but when you're doing a TKD, you're only spiking insulin right before your workouts.

My eating window is from 3pm-11pm. I start to workout either at 3pm or 4pm, so I actually use 30g of Powerade mix during my eating window. Then after that, I have my one primary meal that consists of 1333cals (6 whole eggs, 56g cheese, 10oz chorizo). Then around 8 or 9pm, I have my last meal that is a shake consisting of two scoops of Muscle Milk and flaxmeal. I'm going to add in 1 tbsp of coconut oil just to hit total cals.

Overall, I take in 2300cals on rest days and 2500 on workout days. Also I don't take any carbs (Powerade) on rest days, so it's a full on keto, only trace carbs from veggies. I'm also using bulk bcaas during the fasting period and during workouts. I think I'm going to start taking one more serving after my primary meal.

Let me know how you guys feel about this.
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It really pisses me off... No just kidding, you can definitely do your TKD using the 16/8 window. Also the window does not have to be exact for it to be effective.
 
MrKleen73 said:
It really pisses me off... No just kidding, you can definitely do your TKD using the 16/8 window. Also the window does not have to be exact for it to be effective.
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I'm wondering how would the CKD work with this actually...Since its only fats and prot for the week and then a refeed on carbs for the weekend in a standard way of doing it. So mainly if a recomp protocol is on it would be just Prot/Fat/Veggies for the whole week cycling the kCals only with the +20%/-20% scheme and on the weekends like saturday and sunday injest like what? 600-800 grams of carbs between the 2 days? Would it be overkill be into so much Ketosis and fast oO? Or would this be good for a express cut if done with the standard +10/-35% kCals for a cut Oo!
 
Celorza said:
I'm wondering how would the CKD work with this actually...Since its only fats and prot for the week and then a refeed on carbs for the weekend in a standard way of doing it. So mainly if a recomp protocol is on it would be just Prot/Fat/Veggies for the whole week cycling the kCals only with the +20%/-20% scheme and on the weekends like saturday and sunday injest like what? 600-800 grams of carbs between the 2 days? Would it be overkill be into so much Ketosis and fast oO? Or would this be good for a express cut if done with the standard +10/-35% kCals for a cut Oo!
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Ketosis is just when fat burning is up high enough to be measured via Ketones in the urine. So no there would be anything wrong with fasting and being in ketosis. Actually if anything that would accelerate the fat loss because the glucagon levels would be even higher making fat catabolism even more efficient.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Ketosis is just when fat burning is up high enough to be measured via Ketones in the urine. So no there would be nothing wrong with fasting and being in ketosis. Actually if anything that would accelerate the fat loss because the glucagon levels would be even higher making fat catabolism even more efficient.
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What I would be worried only , would be about the refeeds on the weekend :p What if they turn all to fat hahaha xD , but aw well nothing that pure fat and prot and veggies all week can't burn out :p!
 
Celorza said:
What I would be worried only , would be about the refeeds on the weekend :p What if they turn all to fat hahaha xD , but aw well nothing that pure fat and prot and veggies all week can't burn out :p!
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No, you weren't even talking about enough carbs to completely fill you up so no worries about gaining fat. Now if taking in 600-800 a day then yeah there may be the tiniest bit of fact accumulation but it will go away and then some during the caloric restriction part of the week.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
No I don't count them at all.
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Back after long break from AM. Just spent several days reading this entire thread. I laughed, I cried, I learned....you get the picture. WOW. Great thread. Was actually very interesting to see the concepts and how they evolved over all that time.

Frank, like I said I've read the whole thread and seems like you have done a lot of tweaking to your approach (within the constraints of not overthinking it). I could not agree with you more on the freedom of this program being what has grabbed my attention. I felt like I was a slave to ziploc, tupperware and the blender! I track everything and can stick to my diet easily as I believe you do and can.

I'm curious, what your current overall approach looks like. I know its not core Leangains, but I would be very interested in seeing what you are doing now.
 
Well right up until the last 3 weeks or so, it has been pretty strict LG. Meals at 12/5/8.

Right now the only thing I really changed is added a serving of eaa/fish oil at 9am. That or a serving of protein(egg/casein/whey blend) and some fish oil. Something light, easily digested, but able to supply some protein.

I am usually pretty dialed in as far as sticking to certain macros, but lately I have just been eating. I have been dieting long enough to know more or less what I need. I try and eat a large amount of protein first at each meal, then eat some carbs and fat until I am full. If it is a WO day I will eat less fat in those sittings, and stick more to carbs, and vice versa.

Once I am ready to cut down a few lbs I will get back a bit more structured.

At the moment I am just enjoying food. I pretty much eat whatever the hell I want, as long as I get a large amount of protein in. Workout days are more carb heavy, and higher in calories, off days lower carb(100g or so), and about 500 less calories. I usually still stick to pretty wholesome food but the occasional chipotle burrito, or neapolitan pizza is fine..lol

All my proteins, and fats are from what I consider clean sources. Carbs I eat whatever the **** I want/like. Jasmine rice, skinny cow ice cream sandwiches, low fat pop tarts, kids cereal, white pasta, low fat mac and cheese, oven baked french fries(very low fat), pretzel crisps, etc. I don't stress over the GI.


Right now my main goal is adding strength/mass. My BF is still in a good place(still can see abs, have vascularity in my legs, etc) And strength is climbing. Bodyweight is up to 210. :)

I should post some pics of my wifes LG transformation. ;)
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Well right up until the last 3 weeks or so, it has been pretty strict LG. Meals at 12/5/8.

Right now the only thing I really changed is added a serving of eaa/fish oil at 9am. That or a serving of protein(egg/casein/whey blend) and some fish oil. Something light, easily digested, but able to supply some protein.

I am usually pretty dialed in as far as sticking to certain macros, but lately I have just been eating. I have been dieting long enough to know more or less what I need. I try and eat a large amount of protein first at each meal, then eat some carbs and fat until I am full. If it is a WO day I will eat less fat in those sittings, and stick more to carbs, and vice versa.

Once I am ready to cut down a few lbs I will get back a bit more structured.

At the moment I am just enjoying food. I pretty much eat whatever the hell I want, as long as I get a large amount of protein in. Workout days are more carb heavy, and higher in calories, off days lower carb(100g or so), and about 500 less calories. I usually still stick to pretty wholesome food but the occasional chipotle burrito, or neapolitan pizza is fine..lol

All my proteins, and fats are from what I consider clean sources. Carbs I eat whatever the **** I want/like. Jasmine rice, skinny cow ice cream sandwiches, low fat pop tarts, kids cereal, oven baked french fries(very low fat), pretzel crisps, etc. I don't stress over the GI.

Right now my main goal is adding strength/mass. My BF is still in a good place(still can see abs, have vascularity in my legs, etc) And strength is climbing. Bodyweight is up to 210. :)

I should post some pics of my wifes LG transformation. ;)
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Thanks Frank. Sorry to lean on your so hard, but how are you breaking out your macros and cals on workout and non workout days? Pretty sure you are carb sensitive like I am so very interested in how you lay it out.

Glad to hear your wife is into being fit. My wife is a genetic freak. Envy the hell out of her. When we met she had never lifted a weight and had peaked biceps. She has been working out for quite a while now, but JUST had to start watching her diet a bit for the first time. Must be nice!
 
I'm changing up my routine a lil and just wanted some input ... Im switching back to a 4 day RPT Style split but with a lot of Isolating movements as well ...
Anyways for my calorie intake what I'm thinking of going BMR x 1.5 = around 2700 Cals ... Doing a 0/-25 for a lil while but main concern is strength gain ... But cut up a lil at the beginning ...
Shooting for December join the 3,4,5 club (BP 300, squat 400, DL 500)
Thought? Only on the Calorie intake part ... Don't worry about macros, current lifts, thats already on check and it's been for a while
My stats 5'11 190lbs 13% BF
 
Vote4pedro said:
I'm changing up my routine a lil and just wanted some input ... Im switching back to a 4 day RPT Style split but with a lot of Isolating movements as well ...
Anyways for my calorie intake what I'm thinking of going BMR x 1.5 = around 2700 Cals ... Doing a 0/-25 for a lil while but main concern is strength gain ... But cut up a lil at the beginning ...
Shooting for December join the 3,4,5 club (BP 300, squat 400, DL 500)
Thought? Only on the Calorie intake part ... Don't worry about macros, current lifts, thats already on check and it's been for a while
My stats 5'11 190lbs 13% BF
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Why not try the +10/-35%? for a cut I mean, because 0/-25% looks a bit like a cut...
 
Celorza said:
Why not try the +10/-35%? for a cut I mean, because 0/-25% looks a bit like a cut...
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It the exact same thing really ... The +10 will be burned in the -35 ... Leaving u with a deficit of -25% every 2 days ... And remember I work out 4 times a week ... In a week that would be +40/-105 leaving a total of -65 a week ... With 0/-25 I go on a -75 deficit a week ... So it's 1- not as painful on the deficit days, and 2- burn more weekly ... Ya dig? Lol

But my concern was not about my math rather more of my BMR x (1.5) <---- less or more? Considering I work out 4 times a week, 1.5-2hrs tops each day but my work life and general life style is not very active
 
I would just set calories somewhere and try it for a couple weeks. Then adjust to suit.

I would also prioritize. Do you want to cut a little, or do you want to just focus on strength gains. IMO the biggest trap people fall into is trying to "recomp" or serve two masters at once. Do one thing effectively, rather then 2 things at a snails pace IMO.

If you wanna diet, then smash a diet hard for 3-4 weeks, at 13% you should easily be able to hit single digits or close by then if you know what you are doing, and then work on hitting your strength goals. There will be no faster way to those strength goals than EATING.

JMO-
 
Vote4pedro said:
It the exact same thing really ... The +10 will be burned in the -35 ... Leaving u with a deficit of -25% every 2 days ... And remember I work out 4 times a week ... In a week that would be +40/-105 leaving a total of -65 a week ... With 0/-25 I go on a -75 deficit a week ... So it's 1- not as painful on the deficit days, and 2- burn more weekly ... Ya dig? Lol

But my concern was not about my math rather more of my BMR x (1.5) <---- less or more? Considering I work out 4 times a week, 1.5-2hrs tops each day but my work life and general life style is not very active
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Oh I see , not bad.

Frank Reynolds said:
I would just set calories somewhere and try it for a couple weeks. Then adjust to suit.

I would also prioritize. Do you want to cut a little, or do you want to just focus on strength gains. IMO the biggest trap people fall into is trying to "recomp" or serve two masters at once. Do one thing effectively, rather then 2 things at a snails pace IMO.

If you wanna diet, then smash a diet hard for 3-4 weeks, at 13% you should easily be able to hit single digits or close by then if you know what you are doing, and then work on hitting your strength goals. There will be no faster way to those strength goals than EATING.

JMO-
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Definetly agree with Frank , I tried the recomp style and was going slow for me , now I simply eat for a bulk and have been making a LOT of strength progress, sure gained a tiny bit of fat along the way , but still in single digits so no prob. The tricky thing is...cut up and keep the strength gains oO!!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I would just set calories somewhere and try it for a couple weeks. Then adjust to suit.

I would also prioritize. Do you want to cut a little, or do you want to just focus on strength gains. IMO the biggest trap people fall into is trying to "recomp" or serve two masters at once. Do one thing effectively, rather then 2 things at a snails pace IMO.

If you wanna diet, then smash a diet hard for 3-4 weeks, at 13% you should easily be able to hit single digits or close by then if you know what you are doing, and then work on hitting your strength goals. There will be no faster way to those strength goals than EATING.

JMO-
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Do agree and that was my idea, every time I start strengthening work outs, I drop all my weights so I wouldn't hit my max 1RM for a good 3-4 weeks and then it's when i actually start breaking past my strength pleatau ... So I would take advantage of those 4 weeks to use em as a cut and once I start breaking my PRs I would increase my calorie intake
 
Does anybody here only eat one meal for their IF diet? I was thinking about switching to one meal after working out as I'm really not hungry the rest of the day. Can someone help me with what macros I should be shooting for on workout vs rest days? I'm 220, 5'10 and want to get down to around 170.
 
thewolf49 said:
Does anybody here only eat one meal for their IF diet? I was thinking about switching to one meal after working out as I'm really not hungry the rest of the day. Can someone help me with what macros I should be shooting for on workout vs rest days? I'm 220, 5'10 and want to get down to around 170.
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The bmr formula is on one of the links on the first or second page read people arent going to do the work for you. Honestly i dont see how your going to eat all your macros at 1 meal and i think that goes against leangains fast for 16 eat for 8 hour window since you would only have one meal you would be fasting for 23 hours
 
well i use the one meal term loosely, it'd probably be getting all my calories in a 4 hour window after training or something like that. I'll hit up those links, thanks.
 
So i've came out to about 2778 calories on workout days, and here are my macros:

66f, 320c, 226p

I'll probably aim for 1800 calories the other 4 days (cardio/rest days) by just lowering carbs

Seem about right ?
 
thewolf49 said:
So i've came out to about 2778 calories on workout days, and here are my macros:

66f, 320c, 226p

I'll probably aim for 1800 calories the other 4 days (cardio/rest days) by just lowering carbs

Seem about right ?
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Yea bro good on u. Looks solid now have fun with it
 
thewolf49 said:
So i've came out to about 2778 calories on workout days, and here are my macros:

66f, 320c, 226p

I'll probably aim for 1800 calories the other 4 days (cardio/rest days) by just lowering carbs

Seem about right ?
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You are doing the same scheme as I am lol , if you wanna cut , thats a fine macro layout , while if you are on a bulk I would recomend only around a pound to 1.25 g of protein per LB of BW , and fats to around .45 to .5 g per LB of BW , and the rest just carb it up.
 
Celorza said:
You are doing the same scheme as I am lol , if you wanna cut , thats a fine macro layout , while if you are on a bulk I would recomend only around a pound to 1.25 g of protein per LB of BW , and fats to around .45 to .5 g per LB of BW , and the rest just carb it up.
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Bro read his post he wants to lose weight god your always wanting to post every where talkin about how your a bada*** and you know it all and have sweet hookups and i believe in one post talkin about being shreaded ripped and waking up next to a hot azz chick news flash man that blow up doll aint no chick and your scrawny 130 lb azz doesnt know everything about bodybuilding shizt sorry but dam shut up and read a post before you spout off things that dont pertain to the subject
 
live to lift said:
Bro read his post he wants to lose weight god your always wanting to post every where talkin about how your a bada*** and you know it all and have sweet hookups and i believe in one post talkin about being shreaded ripped and waking up next to a hot azz chick news flash man that blow up doll aint no chick and your scrawny 130 lb azz doesnt know everything about bodybuilding shizt sorry but dam shut up and read a post before you spout off things that dont pertain to the subject
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I have woken up lately to chicks oO ****ing sweet when? Got me mixed up haha , if I mentioned that he has similar to mine its because it surprised me , we all got different goals and weights and BMRs so its kinda a lucky strike to see someone similar to you :p take a chill pill , if u even see a log of mine for once or anything you could see I know I am the big noob on this and I'm just trying to learn ;p!
 
Celorza said:
I have woken up lately to chicks oO ****ing sweet when? Got me mixed up haha , if I mentioned that he has similar to mine its because it surprised me , we all got different goals and weights and BMRs so its kinda a lucky strike to see someone similar to you :p take a chill pill , if u even see a log of mine for once or anything you could see I know I am the big noob on this and I'm just trying to learn ;p!
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Whatever bro sorry i blew up
 
Celorza said:
It happens to all of us ^^' , I rather not lose my temper now a days and just blow it all out in cardio or the gym X_X!
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Thanks for the neg celdousche nice sob story about your ex get over it life goes on once again stating things that dont pertain to the subject i wont give u sympathy
 
Frank Reynolds said:
lol.. Crikey. Apparently lean gains raises testosterone(or estrogen).
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ROFL ... So does milk! ... Milk!!???
Mmmhhhhh chocolate milk and fruit loops post work out? ... Dammit I better get to sleep and stop day dreaming of food
 
Vote4pedro said:
ROFL ... So does milk! ... Milk!!???
Mmmhhhhh chocolate milk and fruit loops post work out? ... Dammit I better get to sleep and stop day dreaming of food
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I often drink chocolate milk after an endurance race as my recovery drink.
 
Ok, couple of comments:

Jumped back on the Anabeta train.... GOD, that **** makes IF a mothereffer pain in the behind. I get STARVING by the time I'm supposed to eat comes around. Seriously, I've never felt this hungry with IF. I'm thinking of not taking one pill in the morning and instead taking two at lunch or something like that. Anyone else has had any experience with AB?

Also, second question:

Any point on taking Chromium Picolinate or R-ALA at all during the fasted period while taking my BCAAs?
 
I've been doing IF for over a year, but never really calorie/carb cycled it. Been doing that for about 2 weeks now. On lift days I get 200-250 carbs then rest days 50 carbs. Man, I train in the morning fasted and not having hardly any carbs the day before drains my lifts. Will I get used to this?? And I get in the gym with about 2 cups of coffee, bcaas and scoop of craze in my system and I am walking zombie.
 
dallasboy22 said:
I've been doing IF for over a year, but never really calorie/carb cycled it. Been doing that for about 2 weeks now. On lift days I get 200-250 carbs then rest days 50 carbs. Man, I train in the morning fasted and not having hardly any carbs the day before drains my lifts. Will I get used to this?? And I get in the gym with about 2 cups of coffee, bcaas and scoop of craze in my system and I am walking zombie.
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I think ull get used to it ... I found my lifts and energy are better while I have a lil food in my stomach, like a protein smoothie or a protein bar, sometimes I'll make my own to get better macro splits
 
daniel11 said:
Does it really matter much if your macro split is hit for every meal as long as you hit it for the day?
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Honestly it doesn't make a huge difference. One way to do it, especially if you are cutting or recomping, is to eat all your carbs around workouts. So it would be something like this:

Meal 1: no carb
Meal 2: (pre workout) carb meal
Meal 3: (post workout) carb meal
Meal 4: no carb

Fasted training:
Workout
Meal 1: Carbs
Meal 2: carbs or no carbs
Meal 3: no carbs
Meal 4: no carbs.

Obviously you can tweak that, but if you diet in that way, you are essentially going 20 hours or more without carbs. So very little insulin, thus very little propensity to store fat.
 
Legacyfighter said:
Honestly it doesn't make a huge difference. One way to do it, especially if you are cutting or recomping, is to eat all your carbs around workouts. So it would be something like this:

Meal 1: no carb
Meal 2: (pre workout) carb meal
Meal 3: (post workout) carb meal
Meal 4: no carb

Fasted training:
Workout
Meal 1: Carbs
Meal 2: carbs or no carbs
Meal 3: no carbs
Meal 4: no carbs.

Obviously you can tweak that, but if you diet in that way, you are essentially going 20 hours or more without carbs. So very little insulin, thus very little propensity to store fat.
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Carbs in general including veggies or starch and longer glucose and fructose bonds like fruit also?
 
Im following the cutting protocol 2 meals preworkout and still havent seen the scale move from 185 however i am on an hdrol cycle im adjusting my activity a little more down due to my desk job it has me 2550 workout days 1500 rest days
 
runner_79 said:
Carbs in general including veggies or starch and longer glucose and fructose bonds like fruit also?
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The no carb meals could include green fibrous vegetables. They have a very low glycemic load, and thus a low insulin response. I would not include fruits in the no carb meal.
 
live to lift said:
Im following the cutting protocol 2 meals preworkout and still havent seen the scale move from 185 however i am on an hdrol cycle im adjusting my activity a little more down due to my desk job it has me 2550 workout days 1500 rest days
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Are you getting the macros right? And the %s?...Everyone I know got shredded in like 6-8 weeks of the cutting protocol. Here's a link:

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so...+10%/-35% kCals , high prot and cycle carbs for fats on workout/rest days...If you keep workouts to whole body and a 3x a week workout and make the other 4 days cardio days the caloric deficit is huge...and it spares muscle...maybe you are doing something wrong.
 
Celorza said:
Are you getting the macros right? And the %s?...Everyone I know got shredded in like 6-8 weeks of the cutting protocol. Here's a link:

Invalid Link Removed

so...+10%/-35% kCals , high prot and cycle carbs for fats on workout/rest days...If you keep workouts to whole body and a 3x a week workout and make the other 4 days cardio days the caloric deficit is huge...and it spares muscle...maybe you are doing something wrong.
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Well im cycling right now i am visually leaner yet weigh the same
 
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