The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

Thanks guys. I'm going to go back to what was working for me (training wise) and stick to the build & cut days as far as nutrition goes.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
If it was me I would cut calories, drop the 6lbs in the next 3-4 weeks, and then maintain with the typical +20/-20 until comp time.

At 1.5-2lbs a week you should not lose much strength at all, and that will give you a SOLID amount of time to adjust to the loss, and likely even progress on strength coming in.
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Yeah makes sense I suppose. I meant to say I have stalled for 3weeks not 3 months by the way, considering I have only been doing LG for 3 months
 
MrKleen73 said:
Frank, if you must do the refeeds then here is what I suggest, burn days nothing but aminos 10 grams every two hours until the end of the day, then have about 40 grams of protein, Lift days wake up and eat some protien if you dont do morning training. Keep eating protein and fats only until you lift. After lifting eat carbs and everything else and get in about 2500 cals. It is called ADF or Alternate day fasting.

Like everyone has mention the burn / build days are your carb cycling but if you do not want to do it that way and want to strip fat then do the way I suggested then have your 1 major refeed day without killing your progress. Everyone who has done major carb refeed with the lean gains protocol on a regular basis has stalled. I understand the desire to keep what you were doing before but it doesn't always work so you would be better off doing ADF in your case with an extreme goal..

To answer you question NO there is not any problem with lowering you protein below 200 or even 100 on a burn day as I suggested taking in 40-45 grams at night is fine... You do not even need to have any aminos either if growing muscle is not your goal right now. It sounds radical but has been proven over and over by people doing ADF. So if you want to push the envelope that is where you can do it to be done. Then do 2500 on lift days. You will burn fat like crazy and won't lose any muscle you just wont gain any muscle either. If you bump it up to 3000 cals on build days and do the aminos as suggested on burn days you may even gain a tiny bit of muscle.
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I think I just might try this actually. It might be the trick to shave that extra 1% BF off my body over the next 2-3 weeks on cycle. It looks manageable too.

And to support your quote that is in bold:

On cycle I have eaten way under maintenance and anywhere from 80-120g protein per day and have still put on 10lbs of mass. Now I'm sure alot of it is water, but I'd bet at least 1-2lbs of it is muscle which means you don't have to bring in ridiculous amounts of protein to maintain or grow for that matter.
 
mkretz said:
anyone have any success bulking with LG? and how woudl u structure it?
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Ive recently switched to lean bulking on lean gains and instead of doing +20%/-20% (build days/burn days) Ive pretty much switched it to +30%/-10% and so far out of the last month that I've switched to it I'm up around 1.5-2 lbs and bodyfat is the same, so you can bulk on this diet just fine. The weight gain is slow during the bulk though, but that is exactly what you want so the gains are lean compared to a traditional bulk where you get a lot of fat along with it.
 
RickRock13 said:
Ive recently switched to lean bulking on lean gains and instead of doing +20%/-20% (build days/burn days) Ive pretty much switched it to +30%/-10% and so far out of the last month that I've switched to it I'm up around 1.5-2 lbs and bodyfat is the same, so you can bulk on this diet just fine. The weight gain is slow during the bulk though, but that is exactly what you want so the gains are lean compared to a traditional bulk where you get a lot of fat along with it.
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Good stuff man. I know I am right around this most of the time now and put on 3 lbs this past month while on Endosurge. Now I move to Transaderm and see what it can do. Speaking of...

Consider yourselves invited to come and see what NTBM Transaderm can do for me with no specific changes to diet and only minor changes to training style.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/183516-kleen-satisfies-his.html#post3017401
 
RickRock13 said:
Ive recently switched to lean bulking on lean gains and instead of doing +20%/-20% (build days/burn days) Ive pretty much switched it to +30%/-10% and so far out of the last month that I've switched to it I'm up around 1.5-2 lbs and bodyfat is the same, so you can bulk on this diet just fine. The weight gain is slow during the bulk though, but that is exactly what you want so the gains are lean compared to a traditional bulk where you get a lot of fat along with it.
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what do ur macro breakdowns look like on w.o days and rest days? how many cals? also, do u ever have trouble gettin all that food down lol
 
mkretz said:
what do ur macro breakdowns look like on w.o days and rest days? how many cals? also, do u ever have trouble gettin all that food down lol
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Right now I'm between 3k-3200 on build days with around 250g protein and around 300g carbs.

Burn days its between 1800-2k and I'm usually at 200g protein and less than 75g carbs
 
mkretz said:
what do ur macro breakdowns look like on w.o days and rest days? how many cals? also, do u ever have trouble gettin all that food down lol
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I never have trouble getting food in at all. As a matter in fact I have to tell myself to stop eating on build days because I can easily take in 2k in one sitting. This diet will allow you to take in serious amounts of food at once after doing it for a while :food:
 
thoe are like the exact #'s i think im gonna shoot for....still dont like the idea of late night carbs but im gonna have to get over it lol
 
been doing som reading on Low carb/ketogenic diets.

ok here it goes,

T3 drops, reverse T3 rises. Not a good thing. Seems as though as little as 50g carbs can fix this problem. Seems as insulin has a positive impact on T3. Now interestingly enough,

Short term fast i believe in the 12-16 hour range doesnt dramatically lower t3, however can in some. Reason i assume for this is low leptin and high agouti related protein. This AgRP can lower metabolism. However its shown that OVERFEEDING increases T3 and drops Reverse t3 especially when the carbs are replaced with fats.

Interesting to note that Insuline has positive effect on the t3 levels HOWEVER over feeding with fat has a better outtake then carbs. Why? I assume its Gastric inhibitory polypeptide inducing insulin secretion,

I duno just a thought. maybe someone ridiculously smart will chime in. because it seems to be controversial to say the least.

Maybe you IFers should consider first OVERFEED period with protein and fats and the last with some carbs since in the LG referenjces it shows that carbs eaten later help make you leaner (probobaly due to increased leptin blunting hunger late into the day for the fating period)
 
bump.....woudl love to hear some opinions on this..............wonder what woudl happen if it was just alot of everythign, protein carbs fats lol
 
Read the entire thread and a little confused. My WO days calories are 3073. At a 50/30/20 p/c/f split that's 384g of protein on lift days. That can't be right or can it? I thought I read 50/30/20 on lift and 50/20/30 on burn
 
Invalid Link Removed
Shameless Plug! - RS-Transaderm LOG, thanks for checking it out!!
 
Well thats what I do. It's altogether more satisfying to me, too. Chicken, deer, cheese, avocado, usually a small baked potato, protein bars, veggies and fruits etc for first two meals then about 100-150g carbs on third meal for me. I try to keep fats modest on all three meals and just let protein be whatever it can. It works for me plus I get to eat stuff like pancakes and milk for my last meal which is just awesome. Granted, I have anabolics in the picture now but I've lost about 1-2% BF and have gained a total of 10lbs thus far.
 
fueledpassion said:
Well thats what I do. It's altogether more satisfying to me, too. Chicken, deer, cheese, avocado, usually a small baked potato, protein bars, veggies and fruits etc for first two meals then about 100-150g carbs on third meal for me. I try to keep fats modest on all three meals and just let protein be whatever it can. It works for me plus I get to eat stuff like pancakes and milk for my last meal which is just awesome. Granted, I have anabolics in the picture now but I've lost about 1-2% BF and have gained a total of 10lbs thus far.
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That is great bro! What cycle are you running if you don't mind me asking?
 
Ok a lot of you know I have been using Lean Gains for prep and I thought I would be able to take it all the way to the stage, but there does seem to be a point where you will have difficulty. I am pretty drained when fasted now and I guess it's just that I don't have any reserves. 16 days out now and it's time to switch to something more conventional. I am below 5% I would guess and pretty beat up... but I look fuggin good!!
 
DreamWeaver said:
Ok a lot of you know I have been using Lean Gains for prep and I thought I would be able to take it all the way to the stage, but there does seem to be a point where you will have difficulty. I am pretty drained when fasted now and I guess it's just that I don't have any reserves. 16 days out now and it's time to switch to something more conventional. I am below 5% I would guess and pretty beat up... but I look fuggin good!!
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modify it to work. Thats the great thing about this diet. Customize it.
 
RickRock13 said:
That is great bro! What cycle are you running if you don't mind me asking?
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I assume u r asking what compounds I am taking? If so, I'm running a cutting cycle, or at least I have tried to do a cut lol w/
a bridge between SD and Trenazone with a Test Prop base. Granted, I'm currently running about 700mg/wk of Test. I have a log in the cycle info section. Look up "Test-C and Trenazone plus Triptorelin PCT"..
 
fueledpassion said:
I assume u r asking what compounds I am taking? If so, I'm running a cutting cycle, or at least I have tried to do a cut lol w/
a bridge between SD and Trenazone with a Test Prop base. Granted, I'm currently running about 700mg/wk of Test. I have a log in the cycle info section. Look up "Test-C and Trenazone plus Triptorelin PCT"..
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Sounds great bro. Obviously having great results so far I see!
 
wesg49 said:
So were my calculations and macros right?
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It seemed pretty off to me. On a 3k day my protein usually falls around 250-300 but my carbs are higher also (usually around 250-300g) so I know my ratios are probably closer to 40/40/20
 
That's more like it. I was going to say lol. I will start with 40/40/20 for lift days. How does your burn day macros look Rick
 
fueledpassion said:
modify it to work. Thats the great thing about this diet. Customize it.
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well the modification makes it sort of not lean gains, I have to break my fast about 3 hours early. I am sub 5% body fat right now so it's really hard to function fasted. I don't want to be on stims all the time and they are murder on an empty stomach.
 
wesg49 said:
That's more like it. I was going to say lol. I will start with 40/40/20 for lift days. How does your burn day macros look Rick
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The macros on burn days are closer to 50/20/30 usually. My carbs are usually between 50-75g and protein at around 200g and my Cal target is around 1800
 
Ok re looked at my plan. My p/c/f is different for each day. I did 40/40/20 on lift days and 50/20/30 on burn days and came up with these numbers

WO days: 3100 cals 312g pro, 312g carbs, 69g f
Burn days: 2100 cals 260g, 104g, 69g f

That's just a general guideline. Does this look ok? My question is how to ingest that much pro on lift days but only that much fat. I'm guessing only lean cuts of meat. Like 93/7?
 
DreamWeaver said:
well the modification makes it sort of not lean gains, I have to break my fast about 3 hours early. I am sub 5% body fat right now so it's really hard to function fasted. I don't want to be on stims all the time and they are murder on an empty stomach.
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I have the exact opposite problem. I went back to eating 6 meals a day, a couple weeks back and it was BRUTAL at my current calorie level.

I can see maybe 4 larger meals a day, would be doable, and that was my next step, but ended back up on IF for the time being.

What do you plan on doing?
 
Anyone have experience of running clen on LG? Am thinking of starting an Erase stack with a t-booster and throwing in a bit of clen. I used leviathan reloaded a while back and it was good for a few lbs so can only imagine what clen would be like. Especially with an empty stomach for half the day
 
SemiBulimic said:
Anyone have experience of running clen on LG? Am thinking of starting an Erase stack with a t-booster and throwing in a bit of clen. I used leviathan reloaded a while back and it was good for a few lbs so can only imagine what clen would be like. Especially with an empty stomach for half the day
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What do you want to know exactly?
 
Whether LG will increase the effectiveness of clen and I particularly want to hear from anyone who has used clen whilst on another nutritional plan and then again on LG and how the experiences compared regards fat loss and strength and muscle maintenance. For starters....
 
SemiBulimic said:
Whether LG will increase the effectiveness of clen and I particularly want to hear from anyone who has used clen whilst on another nutritional plan and then again on LG and how the experiences compared regards fat loss and strength and muscle maintenance. For starters....
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I just don't see why it would matter one way or another. Clen is Clen. It will be just as effective on LG as any other calorie restricted diet. Muscle preservation is going to depend on a lot of factors, like any other diet. AAS, t3 use, how far below maint, bf%, etc, etc.

I have used Helios on LG, and plan to add them back in, with a second dose of regular clen this week. It works as expected, no better or worse.IMO

I have been just running EC-Alpha Y for the past few weeks and it has worked quite well, and I am really only adding clen for a week or two in hopes of getting the last stubborn fat off.
 
I just had the idea that perhaps with having an empty stomach for longer the clen would be quicker to kick in and more effective, especially on burn days, as I have found this to be the case with other fat burners but cheers for the pointers
 
Honestly, I am giving helios/clen one week, and if I don't see much of an increase over ECY, I will just go back to that, as it was treating me very well.
 
Sounds good. I wanted to try clen as Ephedrine, although effective for me, really affects me badly psychologically so I want to stay clear
 
SemiBulimic said:
Sounds good. I wanted to try clen as Ephedrine, although effective for me, really affects me badly psychologically so I want to stay clear
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Even the HCL? I stayed away from it for years because back in the day the Alkaloids made me feel like absolute hell. I decided to give HCL a try and it was like nothing. I mean I feel better on EC then most pre-wo's.
 
Hcl is basically ephedra right? I am in the UK so Ephedrine is illegal but I have taken that and ephedra and ephedra affected me nowhere as much. Ephedrine made me depressed as hell and very temperamental
 
I ventured away from LG after being on it for about 2 months. I will be going back starting tomorrow b/c I don't like the way I feel eating breakfast, morning snacks, etc. It keeps me feeling sluggish and tired compared to when I haven't eaten yet. My lunch on a normal diet also makes me extremely sluggish and tired whereas my 1st meal (lunch) on LG doesn't do that as often even though it is a large meal. Anyone else notice that personally? Oh and I got a UTI on Ephedra lol. I will never do that shizz again...
 
houstontexas said:
I ventured away from LG after being on it for about 2 months. I will be going back starting tomorrow b/c I don't like the way I feel eating breakfast, morning snacks, etc. It keeps me feeling sluggish and tired compared to when I haven't eaten yet. My lunch on a normal diet also makes me extremely sluggish and tired whereas my 1st meal (lunch) on LG doesn't do that as often even though it is a large meal. Anyone else notice that personally? Oh and I got a UTI on Ephedra lol. I will never do that shizz again...
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i wouldnt say the UTI is from ephedra altho if sexually active and not pissing after you cum can cause an issue

but even on LG after my first meal i take a nap. i have to

i am eating 2400 calories per day (gotta drop 18 lbs for a fight in 6 weeks and 15 for a photo shoot in 4) im eating most of my calories post workout and im still hungry. One draw back from going from this diet to another is stomach stretching i believe. im still hungry after 1900 calories for meal 1!!!!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Honestly, I am giving helios/clen one week, and if I don't see much of an increase over ECY, I will just go back to that, as it was treating me very well.
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Never ****ed with helios was always worried id be lopsided looking if i injected in one spot too much and not the others.
 
Good stuff in here. Rick you are becoming quite the guru Sir! I love Lean Gains well any intermittent fasting protocol I have tried, remember guys use your own macros. What works for one is not what works for another. Some may do well on 50p-30c-20f, while others may do well on 40-40-20, and many others 30-40-30 for build days. Lean Gains is about knowing yourself. It is simply an Intermittent Fasting Protocol, not a diet. Macros are not decided for you, you decide them based on you and your knowledge of what works. Sure there are some basic guidelines to start from but even those vary widely from person to person.

If you are very carb tolerant start here - build day 35p-40c-25f, burn day 40p-30c-30f

If you are very carb sensitive start here build day 40p - 30c - 30f burn day 40p-20c-40f

Adjust as needed.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Good stuff in here. Rick you are becoming quite the guru Sir! I love Lean Gains well any intermittent fasting protocol I have tried, remember guys use your own macros. What works for one is not what works for another. Some may do well on 50p-30c-20f, while others may do well on 40-40-20, and many others 30-40-30 for build days. Lean Gains is about knowing yourself. It is simply an Intermittent Fasting Protocol, not a diet. Macros are not decided for you, you decide them based on you and your knowledge of what works. Sure there are some basic guidelines to start from but even those vary widely from person to person.

If you are very carb tolerant start here - build day 35p-40c-25f, burn day 40p-30c-30f

If you are very carb sensitive start here build day 40p - 30c - 30f burn day 40p-20c-40f

Adjust as needed.
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People need to remember guidelines are just that... guidelines.

For me i know for build days i need 335 protein 130g fat.
Maintence i need 285 protein 105g fat.
burn day i need 275 protein 85g fat

I do it all on keto. if i dont do keto on build days then i drop my protein 50g and add 150g carbs and drop fat 20g
 
ssbackwards said:
i wouldnt say the UTI is from ephedra altho if sexually active and not pissing after you cum can cause an issue

but even on LG after my first meal i take a nap. i have to

i am eating 2400 calories per day (gotta drop 18 lbs for a fight in 6 weeks and 15 for a photo shoot in 4) im eating most of my calories post workout and im still hungry. One draw back from going from this diet to another is stomach stretching i believe. im still hungry after 1900 calories for meal 1!!!!
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i def. have to fight the urge to nap after breaking fast....so much food makes me want to sleep hardcore
 
MrKleen73 said:
Good stuff in here. Rick you are becoming quite the guru Sir! I love Lean Gains well any intermittent fasting protocol I have tried, remember guys use your own macros. What works for one is not what works for another. Some may do well on 50p-30c-20f, while others may do well on 40-40-20, and many others 30-40-30 for build days. Lean Gains is about knowing yourself. It is simply an Intermittent Fasting Protocol, not a diet. Macros are not decided for you, you decide them based on you and your knowledge of what works. Sure there are some basic guidelines to start from but even those vary widely from person to person.

If you are very carb tolerant start here - build day 35p-40c-25f, burn day 40p-30c-30f

If you are very carb sensitive start here build day 40p - 30c - 30f burn day 40p-20c-40f

Adjust as needed.
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Yeh man I agree. You definitely have to do what works for you. I have certainly learned more about what works best for me dietwise since starting lean gains than ever. It really helps you learn yourself, and how you react to certain Carb and Cal levels along with the changes from surpluses and defecits. I am enjoying the hell out of it, and learning as much as I can. I'm constantly changing things it seems based on what I see in the mirror and that seems to work pretty well. One week I may only have two burn days and all the rest build days. Then the next week go back to 3-4 burn days to clean up. I love the versatility :)
 
Well big refeed some good sleep and I am back on lean gains. Had very low burn day yesterday 1400 cals... I have a bag of large flake oats on hand if things get too rough. I am really fuggin hungry today but not feeling light headed.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
haha.. welcome back!

I tried to go back to and it was just not happening.
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I lasted one day... but this late in prep I have to be careful when I get light headed as I am sub 5% and have no reserves... I am going to be ready just in case I need to feed early... I ate at 6pm last night so technically I could break my fast at 10 am if need be but I am going to try and gut it out till noon.. I am fuggin hungry but not light headed...
 
DreamWeaver said:
I lasted one day... but this late in prep I have to be careful when I get light headed as I am sub 5% and have no reserves... I am going to be ready just in case I need to feed early... I ate at 6pm last night so technically I could break my fast at 10 am if need be but I am going to try and gut it out till noon.. I am fuggin hungry but not light headed...
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I hear that man.

How much longer do you have until show time?
 
DreamWeaver said:
Well big refeed some good sleep and I am back on lean gains. Had very low burn day yesterday 1400 cals... I have a bag of large flake oats on hand if things get too rough. I am really fuggin hungry today but not feeling light headed.
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I knew you couldn't stay away long DW. This is an addictive lifestyle we live!
 
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