RickRock13
Well-known member
I'm gonna have to get some of that gum Milas. I had no idea they had dessert flavored gum....sounds good!
The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log
- Thread starter MrKleen73
- Start date
houstontexas
Well-known member
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Ill take this to go please...
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Milas
Board Sponsor
So far the mint chocolate chip holds the flavor the best, and the key lime pie the worst. I'd try a pack of each, they should be about $0.75 per pack at Wally World.
Milas
Board Sponsor
I have this for dinner a lot. I use the low carb tortillas that have tons of fiber and protein with only a few carbs, load it up with cheese and chicken or beef and melt it on a frying pan. I cover it with salsa and put a big dollop of plain fat free Greek Yogurt on it (tastes very much like sour cream but high in protein). I also gotta have a beer with it these days, LOL!
RickRock13
Well-known member
TurningGreen said:
Lol...nice!! BUT I WANT IT NOW!!!!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
I'm gonna Grill me a KILLER 1+Lb STEAK-ZILLA tomorrow for Dinner (my once a week mini-cheat) I still keep the steak a very lean cut, usually London Broil!
King of the Grilll Maaa!!!
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TurningGreen
Well-known member
ScottyDoc said:
I grilled up about 3lbs of steak, 3lbs of chicken and cooked 2 boxes of brown rice along with a LN Cheesecake. Just in case that hurricane blasted us I could still get my grub on.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Hold on... Map Questing directions to your house now, OMW, so I can get my Grub on...
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TurningGreen
Well-known member
ScottyDoc said:
Haha all are welcome!
houstontexas
Well-known member
I was reading through a thread where a guy was cutting using IF and CKD together. I believe he was doing IF style eating 5-6 days a week with 1-2 days non-IF to cram in the carb load. What is the general consensus on something like that? Would it be helpful in fat loss or would it be overkill?
RickRock13
Well-known member
Just made me up some more of the Layne Norton's cheesecake tonight, this time with some added vanilla protein powder. I'm looking forward to a slice on each workout day!:yumyum:
I love that stuff!
I love that stuff!
TurningGreen
Well-known member
RickRock13 said:
How much powder are you adding? Any extra liquid at all? I have some choc mint may be pretty good in it.
mattrag
Legend
Man dude I wish I had access to some fat free cream cheese.... japan ONLY has full fat cheeses...Skim milk is relatively a new thing too...
mattrag
Legend
Very true, just gotta get past the price tag... hahah. craft singles are like 8 for $3 here.
RickRock13
Well-known member
TurningGreen said:
I added 2 scoops of powder and 1/4 cup of skim milk extra, and that seemed to make the consistency just right. Its chillin in the fridge, so my first slice to find out how it is will be tomorrow
RickRock13
Well-known member
Yeh my weight fluctuates 2-3 lbs easily. It will be up after a workout day and be down after a cardio day. Pretty normal
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
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TurningGreen
Well-known member
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houstontexas
Well-known member
Ok I'm quoting my earlier question to see if anyone thinks this would be a viable approach. I know not everyone sticks to the exact outline given for recomp as far as feeding windows and macros so let me know if this could be a worthy option.
EasyEJL
Never enough
i guess it would, the question is why do it? overall a CKD doesn't give much advantage over a normal diet in my experience (and from studies). So you'd be adding complexity in for not much difference in return, and potentially somewhat lower gym performance.
houstontexas
Well-known member
Ya I figured it would not be worth it but wanted to hear some thoughts on it. Thanks for chiming in.
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Made some the other day with vanilla almond milk and 2 scoops of chocolate mint whey protein. Not a prominent taste difference, but it set up a lot thicker.
RickRock13
Well-known member
I made mine on Sunday with the 2 added scoops of Vanilla protein, and it came out great! It is a little thicker than it was the last time I made it (which I like), but it also added a decent amount to the taste. It is probably the way I will make it from now on......love that Layne Norton's cheesecake!
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Im a big fan as well, Its always nice to have some dessert after I break my fast...you really cant beat it.
chedapalooza
Legend
What's up! So turns out my method/lifestyle isn't crazy after all! I've been living this lifestyle since I recovered from losing 90 pounds from anorexia 5 years ago... I kin of developed it on my own ( wasn't aware of it's existence) and I live it n love it... I like to stay as lean as possible year round... However, I have never really supplemented bcaa or any other form or protein / pre workout, and thus, I am obviously diminishing any GAINS in quality lean mass and definition...
I am interested in using a pre workout bcaa, but I should note that I gain fat/retain water easily... So my fear is ingesting anything that will break my fast and raise blood sugar prior to working out... I have tried xtend from scivation but experienced bloating/water retention... I have used samples of recovery pro post workout n that seemed to agree with me well... Would that be suitable for pre workout?
My workouts consist of 5-10 minutes of running at 8-9 mph followed by 20 mins of hiit at 9-10 mph and 4mph walking at one min intervals. Then I will lift. I hit each muscle twice a week except for shoulders (m, tues, thurs, fri) I do abs 4 days a week. That is followed by 10-15 more mins if low intensity cardio ellipt, tread, or stairmaster.
Workouts r in afternoon around 2-3. I rise at 8-9 most days n don't ingest anything until 5-6 with feeding ending about 1030-11 pm.
I guess the bulk concern is adding the bcaa which I feel will definitely help increase my quality muscle fullness n hardness n definition, I just don't want it raising my bloodsugar n halting fat burning during workouts...
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your advice!
Edit: I supplement with b vitamins, l carnitine, fat burner, test booster/ or anti estrogen depending on time of year, nitric oxide pills, multi v, will add vit d, tyrosine+5htp+Sam e (replaced anti depressant!!) , anabolic pump, big blend protein. I will be switching to a m,w,f full body hst variation I put together in October to really get some gains.
Stats- 5'7" 159-162lbs (on a recomp with erase) bf estimated at 10-11.. Maybe lower but lack of fullness hindering definition
I am interested in using a pre workout bcaa, but I should note that I gain fat/retain water easily... So my fear is ingesting anything that will break my fast and raise blood sugar prior to working out... I have tried xtend from scivation but experienced bloating/water retention... I have used samples of recovery pro post workout n that seemed to agree with me well... Would that be suitable for pre workout?
My workouts consist of 5-10 minutes of running at 8-9 mph followed by 20 mins of hiit at 9-10 mph and 4mph walking at one min intervals. Then I will lift. I hit each muscle twice a week except for shoulders (m, tues, thurs, fri) I do abs 4 days a week. That is followed by 10-15 more mins if low intensity cardio ellipt, tread, or stairmaster.
Workouts r in afternoon around 2-3. I rise at 8-9 most days n don't ingest anything until 5-6 with feeding ending about 1030-11 pm.
I guess the bulk concern is adding the bcaa which I feel will definitely help increase my quality muscle fullness n hardness n definition, I just don't want it raising my bloodsugar n halting fat burning during workouts...
Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your advice!
Edit: I supplement with b vitamins, l carnitine, fat burner, test booster/ or anti estrogen depending on time of year, nitric oxide pills, multi v, will add vit d, tyrosine+5htp+Sam e (replaced anti depressant!!) , anabolic pump, big blend protein. I will be switching to a m,w,f full body hst variation I put together in October to really get some gains.
Stats- 5'7" 159-162lbs (on a recomp with erase) bf estimated at 10-11.. Maybe lower but lack of fullness hindering definition
RickRock13
Well-known member
chedapalooza said:
I would definitely supplement with BCAA during your fast bro. Preworkout, postworkout and every 2 hours during the fast is how I do it and what Martin Berkhan(lean gains) recommends. It will help to keep protein synthesis going during the fast which can and will contribute to more muscle gained and retained.
Recoverpro is a good choice for servings vs cost. It is also a 4:1:1 ratio which is great for the added Luecine. I think you bloated from xtend probably because of the glutamine in it. It does have that effect on some people. Hope this helps you bro
chedapalooza
Legend
I would definitely supplement with BCAA during your fast bro. Preworkout, postworkout and every 2 hours during the fast is how I do it and what Martin Berkhan(lean gains) recommends. It will help to keep protein synthesis going during the fast which can and will contribute to more muscle gained and retained.
Recoverpro is a good choice for servings vs cost. It is also a 4:1:1 ratio which is great for the added Luecine. I think you bloated from xtend probably because of the glutamine in it. It does have that effect on some people. Hope this helps you bro
Yeaa it was the gluts one for sure .... I just ordered purple wraath actually bc it's geared for pre so I willtry that
Milas
Board Sponsor
I would definitely supplement with BCAA during your fast bro. Preworkout, postworkout and every 2 hours during the fast is how I do it and what Martin Berkhan(lean gains) recommends. It will help to keep protein synthesis going during the fast which can and will contribute to more muscle gained and retained.
Recoverpro is a good choice for servings vs cost. It is also a 4:1:1 ratio which is great for the added Luecine. I think you bloated from xtend probably because of the glutamine in it. It does have that effect on some people. Hope this helps you bro
Just wait, NTBM will be coming out with a flavored bulk BCAA product in 6-8 weeks or so (stuff always gets delayed it seems). I wonder how it will measure up!
ryox82
Member
Why don't you lay off the cardio for 2 weeks and see how you do? You are pretty damn lean if you look like you do in your avatar. I'm not saying let yourself turn into a fatty like me, but at least more calories could go to increasing lean mass. If you find you are uncomfortable with how things are progressing just bump the cardio back up. I lost 100 pounds once myself...not that way though....hot pockets and ephedra lmao. God I miss that stuff.
RickRock13
Well-known member
Milas said:
Yeh I heard about that yesterday. I can't wait for that! I'm always looking for a good, cost effective alternative to Recoverpro and xtend
fueledpassion
Well-known member
yeah it's alm fine and dandy with hunger control ubtil u get on cycle! Crap! I am getting uncontrollably hungry with the Test and SD in my system..geeze 2pm cant get here fast enough
gwls
Well-known member
RickRock13 said:I would definitely supplement with BCAA during your fast bro. Preworkout, postworkout and every 2 hours during the fast is how I do it and what Martin Berkhan(lean gains) recommends. It will help to keep protein synthesis going during the fast which can and will contribute to more muscle gained and retained.
Recoverpro is a good choice for servings vs cost. It is also a 4:1:1 ratio which is great for the added Luecine. I think you bloated from xtend probably because of the glutamine in it. It does have that effect on some people. Hope this helps you bro
Rick how much BCAA are you taking every two hrs?
gwls
Well-known member
chedapalooza said:
Ched - Just an opinion but few things spring to mind, if you want to add lean mass are you sure you're getting in enough calories? Particularly in such a short feeding window? Have you considered breaking fast earlier and then ensuring you get in a pre and post-workout meal? Also, I know myself and a lot of other guys would probably suggest lifting first and cardio afterwards, you might want to try that before actually stopping/reducing it (someone more intelligent than me can explain the science behind lifting first)
Just some additional ideas bro
mattrag
Legend
intriging... I might just hold off in ordering my usually bulk order from another online retailer to see what comes out of NTBM
ssbackwards
Well-known member
food for thought not sure if posted...
Invalid Link Removed
Interesting.
just tossing this out to everyone to read...
Insulin, as it rises, increases leptin. As you know thats fat in the white adipose tissue (which also harbors immune cells and inflamation markers), and regulates the way we disper energy. Leptin is in almost every cell of the body and there can be a resistance to this aswell. When this resistance occurs your bodys ability to use energy effeciently and properly burn fat contiues to be a hardship. This can be a reason why people who are seemingly overweight and dont eat much continue to gain weight.
From this point doctors look now at the thyroid as underlying problem when what in essence happens is leptin is what is causing the bodys TSH level to rise as well as reverse t3. These are important number as when TSH and Reverse t3 is high it basically tells your body your starving and you store much easier.
The cool thing about all this is now the pancreas. Since we know it has 2 initial bouts of insulin release (upon eating and then 30 minutes later) it is detremental for optimal food timing to correct this leptin resistance problem. If it takes 3 hours for insulin levels to return back to baseline then why do we recommend snacking? it forces the pancreas to over produce this insulin (to get ready for the food coming in). Obviously this is different in trained individuals.
This got me thinking even more Wondering about how Gastric inhibitory peptide works in relation to dieting (mainlyketosis) ,Agouti, Leptin, NPY, and insulin.
Its proposed that GIP is stimulated via fat AND carbohydrate intake which increases insulin production. In theory that would mean that NPY and agouti drop ( lowering hunger) but leptin and insulin increase. How would this work in relation to a either caloric restricted diet or ketogenic diet. i just read a study A ketogenic diet impairs energy and glucose homeostasis by the attenuation of hypothalamic leptin signaling and hepatic insulin signaling in a rat model of non-obese type 2 diabetes the conclusion to this was essentially ketogenic diets mess up glucose metabolism by causing IR more then likely from increase GIP causing insulin secretion and leptin secretion. However this is in diabetic rat model in ketosis where as the the this article Gastric inhibitory polypeptide (GIP) dose-dependently stimulates glucagon secretion in healthy human subjects at euglycaemia is in euglycemics where GIP causes glucagon release. so in the study above it was harvesting leptin resistance in the brain.
Since in Ketogenic diets fat intake is high which means GIP stimulates insulin and leptin which aid in fat storage. So how is it that the ketogenic diet still works. I saw a study (Gastric inhibitory polypeptide (GIP) dose-dependently stimulates glucagon secretion in healthy human subjects at euglycaemia) saying that euglycemics it stimulates glucagon production which would mean GH rises and fat is burned. But how does that happen since the science shows that GIP increases insulin and thus leptin in a high fat meal. And if those are true the increase in NPY and agouti is decreased. It all seems contradictory.
Another thing is that supposedly n-3 and n-9 fats increase insulin sensitivity but if these fats increase IS then how can high fat cause insulin release and damage the pancreas by GIP secretion. Im a little confused and thus the contiuation of my research.
One thing that i do find interesting about GIP is that If in hyperglycemic state fat induced expression of this is significantly decreased. Its all so strange and so interesting at the same time.
Also in relation to GLP-1 and DPP-4 inhibitors (byetta, sitagliptin), how is it that they are diabetic agents if they increase GIP thus insulin and leptin causing hyperinsulinemia in DM2? Also if taking something like that wouldnt a pancreatin be proposed for additional treatment to reduce non glucose stimulated insulin release? So why would we have these drugs if they arent really fixing the root of all problems.
but how does all this relate to IF diet, and the link i posted above?
Invalid Link Removed
Interesting.
just tossing this out to everyone to read...
Insulin, as it rises, increases leptin. As you know thats fat in the white adipose tissue (which also harbors immune cells and inflamation markers), and regulates the way we disper energy. Leptin is in almost every cell of the body and there can be a resistance to this aswell. When this resistance occurs your bodys ability to use energy effeciently and properly burn fat contiues to be a hardship. This can be a reason why people who are seemingly overweight and dont eat much continue to gain weight.
From this point doctors look now at the thyroid as underlying problem when what in essence happens is leptin is what is causing the bodys TSH level to rise as well as reverse t3. These are important number as when TSH and Reverse t3 is high it basically tells your body your starving and you store much easier.
The cool thing about all this is now the pancreas. Since we know it has 2 initial bouts of insulin release (upon eating and then 30 minutes later) it is detremental for optimal food timing to correct this leptin resistance problem. If it takes 3 hours for insulin levels to return back to baseline then why do we recommend snacking? it forces the pancreas to over produce this insulin (to get ready for the food coming in). Obviously this is different in trained individuals.
This got me thinking even more Wondering about how Gastric inhibitory peptide works in relation to dieting (mainlyketosis) ,Agouti, Leptin, NPY, and insulin.
Its proposed that GIP is stimulated via fat AND carbohydrate intake which increases insulin production. In theory that would mean that NPY and agouti drop ( lowering hunger) but leptin and insulin increase. How would this work in relation to a either caloric restricted diet or ketogenic diet. i just read a study A ketogenic diet impairs energy and glucose homeostasis by the attenuation of hypothalamic leptin signaling and hepatic insulin signaling in a rat model of non-obese type 2 diabetes the conclusion to this was essentially ketogenic diets mess up glucose metabolism by causing IR more then likely from increase GIP causing insulin secretion and leptin secretion. However this is in diabetic rat model in ketosis where as the the this article Gastric inhibitory polypeptide (GIP) dose-dependently stimulates glucagon secretion in healthy human subjects at euglycaemia is in euglycemics where GIP causes glucagon release. so in the study above it was harvesting leptin resistance in the brain.
Since in Ketogenic diets fat intake is high which means GIP stimulates insulin and leptin which aid in fat storage. So how is it that the ketogenic diet still works. I saw a study (Gastric inhibitory polypeptide (GIP) dose-dependently stimulates glucagon secretion in healthy human subjects at euglycaemia) saying that euglycemics it stimulates glucagon production which would mean GH rises and fat is burned. But how does that happen since the science shows that GIP increases insulin and thus leptin in a high fat meal. And if those are true the increase in NPY and agouti is decreased. It all seems contradictory.
Another thing is that supposedly n-3 and n-9 fats increase insulin sensitivity but if these fats increase IS then how can high fat cause insulin release and damage the pancreas by GIP secretion. Im a little confused and thus the contiuation of my research.
One thing that i do find interesting about GIP is that If in hyperglycemic state fat induced expression of this is significantly decreased. Its all so strange and so interesting at the same time.
Also in relation to GLP-1 and DPP-4 inhibitors (byetta, sitagliptin), how is it that they are diabetic agents if they increase GIP thus insulin and leptin causing hyperinsulinemia in DM2? Also if taking something like that wouldnt a pancreatin be proposed for additional treatment to reduce non glucose stimulated insulin release? So why would we have these drugs if they arent really fixing the root of all problems.
but how does all this relate to IF diet, and the link i posted above?
Milas
Board Sponsor
It's a good 6-8 weeks out, if you can wait then cool, but there's also the possibility of delays as well. Just trying to watch out for you.
RickRock13
Well-known member
gwls said:
I take around 8g every 2 hours of the fast. I also take 8g pre and post workout too.
EasyEJL
Never enough
So much if it though is taking measurements of one or two hormones and basing what you expect results to be on that alone. There are numerous effects in the body of any dietary strategy, making it very difficult to base choices on one or two metabolic facets.
Keep in mind too even if insulin is raised and less lipolysis is happening doesn't mean that free fatty acids already in bloodstream aren't being used for fuel. So a short term reduction of lipolysis may very well be offset by other effects.
DreamWeaver
Legend
I forgot to mention that there are quite a few people here at work that are starting lean gains, 2 have said they really love it and another I talked to is just starting. They want what the old fugger's got!! lol
TurningGreen
Well-known member
Because the Old Fugg is jacked diesel! Im with ya on that DW setting trends over here with Lean Gains...I think at least 3 people at my gym are LG soldiers now.
ssbackwards
Well-known member
If there are free fatty acids and insulin rises it gets repackaged to a certain degree But there's not just one or 2 things its NPY, Agouti, GIP, Thyroid, leptin, insulin, glucagon,