The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log
- Thread starter MrKleen73
- Start date
Milas
Board Sponsor
Not a good choice IMO.
MrKleen73
Legend
Definitely. I like it for it's simplicity / convenience and ease for me to follow and getting same effects i do on much stricter dieting if not better.
Well personally I would use the Mod GRF-1 instead of the DAC so it follows more natural pulse, although I know where you got that info from and respect his opinion also. This diet should actually be perfect for peptide use. Use of the peptides during the fasting phase will drastically increase lipolosis, it also increases protein synthesis so if taking luecine or aminos during the fast they will be sure to get used. If you take it 15-20 minutes before eating your fast breaking meal it will also increase your recovery and the levels of igf-1 will be peaking while you have that big meal in your system. Ideal for growth, recovery and repair of damaged tissue including injuries.
Follow along over here to see this in action. However yes this will work with a cycle. Many have done it. Remember things that work naturally are going to be amplified on cycle. It is things that you can get away with on cycle that you can't get away with when not on one. If you want to maximize muscle gain then just make sure to take aminos every 2 hours even on your non training days during the fast while on. That will at least take advantage of the increased protein synthesis going on while on cycle.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/175317-kleen-takes-bull.html
I wouldn't pulse H-Drol at all. Epi, Superdrol, Dymethazine, but not H-Drol it is just too slow acting to see much of a result off of unless running straight and for longer periods of time.
oufinny
Well-known member
I did this and I thought it worked extremely well. The fat loss is ramped up doing this even if you are bulking.
oufinny
Well-known member
I would pulse DMZ or Epi. If you get little sides from Superdrol, run that as you will only need 10mgs to get really favorable results.
Torobestia
Well-known member
What a truly refreshing review of some scientific literature! While I've read a lot on the LG site and have seen some of the points in this article reiterated in past posts, it's truly key for people to understand that the context of the experiment matters. The results are dependent on them, and when you change the context the results don't necessarily apply (think here about the countless supplements or supplement protocols based on studies done on the diseased, the elderly, or the fat and sedentary, and then turning around and saying a healthy, young athlete can have these same results). Anyways, I learned some new things about omega-3s I didn't know before (regarding their incorporation into cell membranes and possibly subsequent effects of that), and initial findings of the study are promising. I hope they do do a follow-up study addressing the concerns MB brought up so that we can draw conclusions whether n-3 supplementation leads to an increase in the absolute capacity for MPS after protein consumption or not for sure.
bigsexy74
Active member
so i have read up alot on the lg site, and wanted your guys opinions/experience. I've been seeing people who have some heavy cream in their coffee in the am before breaking the fast and some who say it ruins it. What have you all done? What are your thoughts. I've followed this for a couple weeks now and have dropped almost 10 lbs while having 4 tbsp of heavy cream in my am coffee.
freezito
Well-known member
I'll take ur word for it. I'll just stick with natty products
RickRock13
Well-known member
sounds like you answered your own question there bro. If you have had that great of results so far, then obviously it isnt hurting your progress, so no worries!!
Red Dog
Well-known member
I agree with RickRock -- keep truckin' with what you're doing now.
If, however, things begin to stall, you could consider switching to a low-calorie creamer or something similar to replace the heavy cream -- there are some pretty tasty ones out there!
Milas
Board Sponsor
That'll help you on the "lean" part, though I don't know about gains...
Good luck at the dentist!
SouthernLord
Member
I just broke my fast....
One whole rotisserie chicken, half a bag of frozen califlower (fake mashed potatoes), and some protein pudding.
What a ridiculous meal haha
I'll only eat one more time today.
One whole rotisserie chicken, half a bag of frozen califlower (fake mashed potatoes), and some protein pudding.
What a ridiculous meal haha
I'll only eat one more time today.
Milas
Board Sponsor
You missed my 3K calorie Indian Buffet in another thread. E-P-I-C! and only $6!
SouthernLord
Member
Milas
Board Sponsor
The first rule of Lean Gains is there are no cheat meals!
But yeah, I would classify it as that!
2 hyuge servings of Butter chicken
2 hyuge servings of Saag
2 Tandoori Chicken legs
3 Samosas
4 servings Naan
3 big servings curried vegetables
1 bowl rice dessert (forgot name)
5 Gulab Jamun balls w/loads of syrup
and when I got home I had a brownie, a glass of milk, and passed out for the evening (8PM)
I was at about 5600 calories for the day, a bit above my 4400 target (20% over maintenance)!
This morning, cleared it ALL out before quads!
SouthernLord
Member
Awesome haha
I swear after eating a huge meal like this my metabolism goes crazy. I can feel my core temp rise shortly after eating.
I swear after eating a huge meal like this my metabolism goes crazy. I can feel my core temp rise shortly after eating.
Milas
Board Sponsor
Yes, I was dripping sweat, and not from the spices! I could feel myself slip into a carb coma though, insulin must've been crazy and not known what to do.
I had also taken 2 Glycobol before going. In hindsight, maybe I should've used 4-5!
Red Dog
Well-known member
Man I swear I can feel that process happening too. I had a real big meal with tons of baked sweet potato sticks and afterwards I was just wobbling around with my eyes half-closed, like this --> :boggled:
MrKleen73
Legend
Is baked sweet potato sticks another way to say french fries without sounding bad???? Yeah I get carb stupors sometime too. Especially if I don't have much fat with the meal.
I see about 90 grams of carbs there.
I get HOT after a big meal too. Speaking of, I need to go eat again so my stomach is not full for my second lift of the day. Dead lifts then another 1000 calories down the hatch!!!! Honestly I get hotter from eating large quantities of protein than any other nutrient.
Red Dog
Well-known member
haha I know it sounds like it! We use a little canola oil (just enough to prevent sticking) and fry them in a skillet for a few minutes till they brown a bit -- then throw them in the oven to bake for awhile. It really cuts back on the amount of fat in comparison to regular french fries, which are simply destructive.
Milas
Board Sponsor
haha I know it sounds like it! We use a little canola oil (just enough to prevent sticking) and fry them in a skillet for a few minutes till they brown a bit -- then throw them in the oven to bake for awhile. It really cuts back on the amount of fat in comparison to regular french fries, which are simply destructive.
I LOVE those sweet potato fries! I've had to cut back to baking them though, I was using too much oil. They still taste good baked with salt, pepper and lots of cinnamon (and I like to put syrup on them too, sometimes Walden Farms, sometimes the real stuff...).
MrKleen73
Legend
I like to steam them and then mash them with brown sugar or honey, cinnamon and crushed nuts. Sometimes I fore go the honey and just use splenda, I am sure stevia would be good too.
Another thing I like that probably sounds wierd is 1 cup fat free cottage cheese with a table spoon of splenda and cinnamon to taste. This is like dessert for me. As a matter of fact I am having this as part of my final meal of the night.
SouthernLord
Member
I can destroy some cottage cheese. Cottage cheese, sugar free preserves, and frozen mixed berries ftw!
Plain greek yogurt is good like this too.
Plain greek yogurt is good like this too.
Folkmetalhead
New member
Cottage cheese with bacon crumble.. Nomnomnom...
Red Dog
Well-known member
aw yeah, throw a little hot sauce in there on occasion as well.
xigotmailx
Well-known member
Right now i'm 180 and this was my current cutting diet, but now i'm looking to bulk up. I suppose it's pretty simple, I could just double what I eat now. This diet is going to be while on a cycle of AndroMass, then after a month of that going back to this with AndroLean. Can someone edit this up a little for me to get around 3500-4000 cals, if that would even be good while on cycle. And also as it states meal frequency doesn't matter, I would be able to eat another meal between 12-4pm
12PM (fast break): 687 cal, 87g pro, 66g carb (14g fiber), 11g fat
10oz tuna/chicken 333 cal, 73 pro, 0 carb, 4g fat
1 cup brocolli 54 cal, 4g pro, 12g carb (6g fiber), 1g fat
1 cup oats or sweet potato 300 cal, 10g pro, 54g carb (8g fiber), 6g fat
3PM Snack: 505 cal, 21g pro, 39g carb (7g fiber), 30.5g fat
1 banana 105 cal, 1g pro, 27g carb (3g fiber), .5g fat
4Tbsp Naturally More PB 400cal, 20g pro, 12g carb (4g fiber), 30g fat
PWO or 6PM Dinner: 654 cal, 76g pro, 82g carb (19g fiber), 7.5g fat
10oz chicken/extra lean beef/fish 275 cal, 57.5g pro, 0g carb, 6g fat
3 cups spinach 123 cal, 16g pro, 21g carb (13g fiber), 1.5g fat
8oz baked sweet potato 256 cal, 2.4g pro, 61g carb (6g fiber), 0g fat
7:30PM Dessert:
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
Totals: 1986 cal, 211g pro, 190g carb (40g fiber), 39g fat
Also I sort of believe since i'll be bulking while on cycle, couldn't a basically eat as much as I wanted, as long as it is going to be lean meats with veggies and some potatoes?
12PM (fast break): 687 cal, 87g pro, 66g carb (14g fiber), 11g fat
10oz tuna/chicken 333 cal, 73 pro, 0 carb, 4g fat
1 cup brocolli 54 cal, 4g pro, 12g carb (6g fiber), 1g fat
1 cup oats or sweet potato 300 cal, 10g pro, 54g carb (8g fiber), 6g fat
3PM Snack: 505 cal, 21g pro, 39g carb (7g fiber), 30.5g fat
1 banana 105 cal, 1g pro, 27g carb (3g fiber), .5g fat
4Tbsp Naturally More PB 400cal, 20g pro, 12g carb (4g fiber), 30g fat
PWO or 6PM Dinner: 654 cal, 76g pro, 82g carb (19g fiber), 7.5g fat
10oz chicken/extra lean beef/fish 275 cal, 57.5g pro, 0g carb, 6g fat
3 cups spinach 123 cal, 16g pro, 21g carb (13g fiber), 1.5g fat
8oz baked sweet potato 256 cal, 2.4g pro, 61g carb (6g fiber), 0g fat
7:30PM Dessert:
Protein Shake - 140 cal, 27 pro, 3 carb, 0 fat
Totals: 1986 cal, 211g pro, 190g carb (40g fiber), 39g fat
Also I sort of believe since i'll be bulking while on cycle, couldn't a basically eat as much as I wanted, as long as it is going to be lean meats with veggies and some potatoes?
JohnRock
Member
That depends a lot on how much you *want* to eat.
Milas
Board Sponsor
What is your BMR, and how many calories do you burn through exercise (weights and cardio)? This would be your maintenance calories. For bulking, shoot for 20% over maintenance.
When on anabolics, you can't eat however much you want, calories are calories whether they come from cake or chicken. If you eat 6K calories and only burn 3K, you'll get fat. That's why you only shoot for 20% over, so you have excess to build muscle but not so much that you add tons of fat.
I'm guessing you'll want to shoot for ~3500 calories, but you should calculate maintenance for yourself first. Check out livestrong.com and set up an account, it'll help for tracking calories daily too.
grippo
New member
Update: weight holding at 224, feeling lean AND keeping the weight on! I'll update with BF later today. I've been 'experimenting' on what I can/can't eat and found out I can eat pretty much anything in moderation (ice cream, pancakes, etc..). I'm typically very sensitive to carbs and had good results from a low carb/paleo diet, losing about 30 lbs in 3 months. I love being able to eat carbs again and I'm pretty sure this is why I've been able to keep my size after my last oral cycle.
MrKleen73
Legend
Not going to write up a diet here for you but recommendations. get in 100 grams or more of protein in the meal following your lift. Add another meal. Preferably MORE Post workout, if that means you ad a second post workout meal where you are having the dessert then that is where i would put it.
Also are you as lean as you actually want to be? If you are not then you should NOT be running a bulk. On top of that bulks in Lean Gains are saved for those in the single digits. So if you are not as lean as you want to be then I recommend you simply follow the Recomp plan posted in the first link of the second post in this thread. If the Andromass is working and doing it's thing you will gain plenty of muscle while you continue leaning up so that should be the goal. Then once you are as lean as you want to be then move the rest days up to maintenance and see how that works for you. However you really need to have an idea of what your maintenance is, or make a generalized assumption off of one of the various methods provided earlier in the thread and go with that. A pretty general one would be 13-14 times your body weight. For those with average metabolisms that is generally a good place to start unless you have an extremely active lifestyle.
Also consider this, cutting during PCT or just after is not recommended unless you are using non suppressive anabolics such as Osta or even S4. Otherwise you will lose a large amount of the muscle you just gained. So with summer coming you may want to actually get leaner than you intend to stay while on cycle so that the calories you are eating to maintain you once in PCT don't end up making you a little sloppy. IE give yourself some wiggle room. Now that is only a suggestion based off of aesthetics, but if you are simply concerned with size then don't give that a second thought.
DreamWeaver
Legend
If your going to blow it, blow it with high protein.. which apprently takes much more energy to convert to fat...
MrKleen73
Legend
MMMMMM!!!!!! It isn't blow until you choose to continue to eat that way. You could easily stop eating now and I bet you don't come close to your off day cals. So hold off and have a small dinner. That is what I do when I overstep during a meal. Just adjust the rest of the day.
That and the thermic effect of protein is just higher than carbs or fats. So they require more calories just to turn them into energy that can be used.
EasyEJL
Never enough
effectively thats my plan, dinner will just be an oversized chicken breast with salad greens.
Red Dog
Well-known member
I totally agree with your post and especially the concept above -- it's relatively easy to stay lean once you get there with LG/IF, so I definitely concur that you want to get to your ideal leanness goal before bulking with extra calories. This allows for you fine tune your intake to pinpoint that narrow calorie range where you're eating an optimal surplus to slowly build muscle with minimal fat gain.
xigotmailx, I would look into continuing your cut until you reach your desired leanness and then using the AndroMass to help add a few lean pounds once you're there. Actually, if you just switch the AndroMass and AndroLean layout you described above and run AndroLean with an LG fat loss protocol first it could help you progress your current cut before switching back to focusing on adding muscle. But it's ultimately up to you!
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah I do that too, better still if I want to eat extra I just do enough cardio to cover my caloric intake ahead of time. Pay for it before I eat it... I have done cardio the next morning for some slight overeating on a Friday night. Nothing too drastic though.
EasyEJL
Never enough
DreamWeaver
Legend
Good to know, after contest I can just lean bulk no problem and still remain very lean during the off season. This is a total change of lifestyle and I like it!!!
Milas
Board Sponsor
I'd have to be doing some cardio already to be able to do extra
WELL DONE SIR!
I am jealous now...
MrKleen73
Legend
Although I just really don't think on meal, or one day is any kind of deal breaker with IF. I would definitely NOT DO EXTRA CARDIO to make up for anything. That is just me. If I was getting ready for a contest or something maybe but then again if getting ready for a contest I would not have blown the day so where is the urgency to burn them off.
If in general just trying to make improvements the quality of your life should be as minimally affected as possible. Me taking an extra 30 minutes of unplanned cardio time to make up for really enjoying myself on occasion would just be silly, and needlessly obsessive to me. Adjusting the intake later is minimal impact, and or just saying damn that was good and moving on with the day like nothing happened are the only options I would take. Of course I am all about proving that it doesn't have to be so black and white or so obsessive. I tried to do the counting thing again but honestly just keeping track of estimations is working well for me right now. I know when I mess up, I know because I make a conscious decision that it is worth it to me at that moment. Of course when fat loss slows or muscle mass increases stop then I look and say well I have had 4 questionable meals this week no wonder I am not losing, or look I know I didn't get enough calories on 2 of my lift days no wonder my LBM is not reacting the way I want it to. I am leaning up rapidly still recomping and totally enjoying life this way.
Of course I have mentioned it a few times that even with me being "loose" in my logging of food I know basically what I have eaten throughout the day. I have a running tally of my estimations and several of my meals are permanet fixtures in my diet so I look at them and know OKay 780 cals there 100 pro, 65 carbs yada yada just automatically.
I guess the message here is don't be too obsessed with the "perfect" ratios, or the exact amount of calories. A good ball park estimate if you are familiar enough with food should be just fine. We will see how much more detail I need to put into it as I go below 9% which should be within the next week or two. I think closer to 7% I may have to pay more attention but we will see.
My goal with eating, and training progress is, How easy and simplified can we make it and still get great results. So that is why it seems I am anti- micromanaging when it comes to diet. It is definitely the MOST INCONVENIENT part of the lifting game. I am just trying to push that envelope regarding how far i can take it with estimates and a few true up type checks along the way.
If in general just trying to make improvements the quality of your life should be as minimally affected as possible. Me taking an extra 30 minutes of unplanned cardio time to make up for really enjoying myself on occasion would just be silly, and needlessly obsessive to me. Adjusting the intake later is minimal impact, and or just saying damn that was good and moving on with the day like nothing happened are the only options I would take. Of course I am all about proving that it doesn't have to be so black and white or so obsessive. I tried to do the counting thing again but honestly just keeping track of estimations is working well for me right now. I know when I mess up, I know because I make a conscious decision that it is worth it to me at that moment. Of course when fat loss slows or muscle mass increases stop then I look and say well I have had 4 questionable meals this week no wonder I am not losing, or look I know I didn't get enough calories on 2 of my lift days no wonder my LBM is not reacting the way I want it to. I am leaning up rapidly still recomping and totally enjoying life this way.
Of course I have mentioned it a few times that even with me being "loose" in my logging of food I know basically what I have eaten throughout the day. I have a running tally of my estimations and several of my meals are permanet fixtures in my diet so I look at them and know OKay 780 cals there 100 pro, 65 carbs yada yada just automatically.
I guess the message here is don't be too obsessed with the "perfect" ratios, or the exact amount of calories. A good ball park estimate if you are familiar enough with food should be just fine. We will see how much more detail I need to put into it as I go below 9% which should be within the next week or two. I think closer to 7% I may have to pay more attention but we will see.
My goal with eating, and training progress is, How easy and simplified can we make it and still get great results. So that is why it seems I am anti- micromanaging when it comes to diet. It is definitely the MOST INCONVENIENT part of the lifting game. I am just trying to push that envelope regarding how far i can take it with estimates and a few true up type checks along the way.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Yah I have a prep right around the corner and I enjoy being on top of things, I am obsessive so I am pretty comfortable with it, but I do like the idea that I can relax a bit come the off season after my contest. As long as it does not become habit forming. Another reason for my micro-management is the fact that I am still trying to guage my body's reaction and the more I know the more I can relax, if that makes sense.
MrKleen73
Legend
Completely, I am sure you remember me being allover the place with this. Testing things. I imagine if I count every little thing I would make better progress but for now the progress is mind boggling with the effort and time I put into diet. I have never has such a successful recomp.
I don't expect most people to fall into the category I have put myself in. At least at our level. We got here by being meticulous about diet. I don't currently have anything looming so I have no pressure and can really just test what is possible with minimal attention to the details. Like say right now I have not broken my fast as of yet. It is a cardio day. Now I am gonna go walk for an hour and come back and IF I feel like it is time for me to eat I will. If not hungry I will ride it out until later or even this evening and have a big meal. I found 2 nice sized big meals feel great to me on cardio days and still allows me to have a good bit of freedom in my choices. If I only want to go to say 150 grams of carbs that leaves me 75 per meal or 100 in my fast breaker and 50 in my last meal. However I feel like breaking it up really.
I don't expect most people to fall into the category I have put myself in. At least at our level. We got here by being meticulous about diet. I don't currently have anything looming so I have no pressure and can really just test what is possible with minimal attention to the details. Like say right now I have not broken my fast as of yet. It is a cardio day. Now I am gonna go walk for an hour and come back and IF I feel like it is time for me to eat I will. If not hungry I will ride it out until later or even this evening and have a big meal. I found 2 nice sized big meals feel great to me on cardio days and still allows me to have a good bit of freedom in my choices. If I only want to go to say 150 grams of carbs that leaves me 75 per meal or 100 in my fast breaker and 50 in my last meal. However I feel like breaking it up really.
DreamWeaver
Legend
Completely, I am sure you remember me being allover the place with this. Testing things. I imagine if I count every little thing I would make better progress but for now the progress is mind boggling with the effort and time I put into diet. I have never has such a successful recomp.
I don't expect most people to fall into the category I have put myself in. At least at our level. We got here by being meticulous about diet. I don't currently have anything looming so I have no pressure and can really just test what is possible with minimal attention to the details. Like say right now I have not broken my fast as of yet. It is a cardio day. Now I am gonna go walk for an hour and come back and IF I feel like it is time for me to eat I will. If not hungry I will ride it out until later or even this evening and have a big meal. I found 2 nice sized big meals feel great to me on cardio days and still allows me to have a good bit of freedom in my choices. If I only want to go to say 150 grams of carbs that leaves me 75 per meal or 100 in my fast breaker and 50 in my last meal. However I feel like breaking it up really.
Hah that's what I have been thinking .. extending my fast on off days to increase my satisfaction when I reduce calories further. I will be going down to 2100 on off days and I don't want to spread that over 3 meals... I will be much more satisfied waiting till 5pm and gorging a bit...