The Ectomorph Workout

[GymRat7197]

First of all, this routine has a poor set up. Every muscle group in the body as GymRat reminds us should not be isolated. Isolations are intended to assist compounds in bringing up lagging parts, if EVERY muscle group in your body is lagging you have a deficiency in nutrition and/or your training principles all together.
6-12 reps isn't for hypertrophy. Weight is more important. I can do 6-12 reps with the bar all day long and not respond unless I apply weight. The way to reach the point of high weight in your compound exercises is by applying to progressive resistance using 4-6 repetitions. Once that base of strength is generated and you're capable of bench pressing 1.5 your bodyweight and/or deadlifting double your bodyweight then it's a reminder of being time to begin using the 6-12 reptition rule (if necessary).


When using 4-6 reps, your hypertrophy gains will plateau before your strength gains, when using 6-12 reps your strength gains will plateau before your hypertrophy gains; however, it is at this extent difficult to get any bigger unless you're adding weight.
If reps were more important to getting big than weight bodybuilders would have no reason at all to apply more resistance to the bar, yet they always do BECAUSE weight, stimulus AND reps apply to muscle building.

You pretend it's hard to get big, when it's not. Routine isn't the answer to gaining size as much as the nutrition in which you have posted very little content about. An ectomorphy has a deficieny in the ability to gain weight which should brilliantly portrary that it's the NUTRITION he needs educated in not an unnecessary split with useless rep ranges and exercises that aren't relevant to his goal. He is to decide which bodyparts need isolation, NOT you. You don't know him as well as he does, with that if he's a beginner he should just stick to compounds and once again apply to progressive resistance until he is ready to listen to his body and apply his own isolations.


Four factors dictate size.

1: make sure you're eating enough good quality food in order for your body to grow.

2: Make sure you're lifting weight with enough intensity to micro damage the muscle, Could be anywhere between 2-8 sets and between 15-40 total reps. Example: 3x5=15 or 4x10=40 The choices are endless...

3: Make sure you're progressing workout to workout. either more weight, more reps faster tempo, etc.. make sure your workout is more challenging than the previous one.

4: make sure your routine primarily consists of compound exercises such as squats, deads, cleans and presses. Isolations should be 0-10% max of your total exercises.

that's it... Implement those 4 things into your workout and you'll gain both size and strength.

Strong first post.

 

[Sk8erboy]

How are any of these ISOLATION movements?

legs - squats, hack squats, leg press, front squats
back - sumo deadlifts, suitcase deadlifts (deads with dumbells), romanian deadlifts
upper back (and biceps) - chins, reverse grip chins, pull ups, wide grip pull ups, bent over rows
chest - bench, incline bench, chest dips (head down, body forward, legs back)
triceps - close grip bench, dips (head up, body straight, legs straight), skullcrushers (while laying on a bench)
delts - military press, upright rows, clean and press, push press

ACTUALLY READ the OP

And again, it is assumed that you are using a weight with which it is difficult, but not impossible to complete each set. No one is saying to go in and bench the bar 6 times and call it a day!

For a beginner mastering the compounds movements is a good thing to do.
Why do variations of each main lift bench squat deadlift if you have yet to reap the benefits of the main lift.

It like saying you wanna run before youve yet to crawl.
Now all those movements you listed are not differentiate movements and some are a key and is a good idea to master before taking turns at variations

Such thins as incline, skulls crushers, upright rows (which I might may cause injury to the rotor cuff) suit case deadlifts hack squats leg presses front squats


Key movements such as squats deadlifts and bench are very good for beginners to start with that allow beginners to get used to the movements and master them and working out properly can build a very good foundation once a good foundation is built then you can chisel away with variations of the movements such as you listed they might not be isolations but are of much less use than the main movements themselve.

 

[GymRat7197]

Less is more with beginners.

 

[wophood]

They are accessory movements. If you're hitting the conventional back squat hard enough there's no way you should have the energy to return for more variations of that movement.

I would disagree here. And no, I'm not a newb... I'm a two time record holding, season powerlifter (who deadlifts over triple bodyweight). In every workout I've ever put together in my weightlifting career, I've always placed compound movements first, then moved on to more specific, isolated exercises. Not that it matters in this case though, because the idea of a routine like this is to stick with the basics. Once you're done with squats, you're done with legs. Then it's on to the next muscle group. Some of the exercises listed in this write up could be considered accessory movements. But for smaller muscle groups such as tri's like you mentioned earlier, just about any movement would be.

To be honest bro, I think you must of just had a bad day, and decided to get on AM and trash somebody's perfectly fine, well written thread.

 

[GymRat7197]

I would disagree here. And no, I'm not a newb... I'm a two time record holding, season powerlifter (who deadlifts over triple bodyweight). In every workout I've ever put together in my weightlifting career, I've always placed compound movements first, then moved on to more specific, isolated exercises. Not that it matters in this case though, because the idea of a routine like this is to stick with the basics. Once you're done with squats, you're done with legs. Then it's on to the next muscle group. Some of the exercises listed in this write up could be considered accessory movements. But for smaller muscle groups such as tri's like you mentioned earlier, just about any movement would be.

Conventional heavy back squats are PLENTY of work and all that is necessary to develop strong legs. If the persons goal would be hypertrophy the proper approach wouldn't be looking for a magical routine but increasing their calories and fixing up their diet seeing THAT is how hypertrophy is gained. All those variations of squats aren't necessary, a back squat would utilize the posterior chain, quads and back to full extent without adding in all those unnecessary variations.

As a beginner, you would master one variation of a movement before you go adding in other ones. If someone isn't growing from squats they should adjust their diet and/or gradually increase the intensity over time.

To be honest bro, I think you must of just had a bad day, and decided to get on AM and trash somebody's perfectly fine, well written thread.

I tell people when I think something is wrong, stop whining about it.

 

[Resolve]

Whether you care to admit it or not, variation is key. While Back Squats are Sufficient, rotating back squats with front Squats with Barbell Hack Squats (not machine hacks) will produce better results through providing a wider range of stimulus.

Pick ONE EACH WORKOUT and train it hard, Front Squats are just as taxing and beneficial as back squats

And yes, less is more with beginners - that is why a higher rep range can be beneficial - it allows a lighter load, at which one can better accustom oneself to weight lifting and cement proper form - LIKE I SAID.

 

[GymRat7197]

Whether you care to admit it or not, variation is key. While Back Squats are Sufficient, rotating back squats with front Squats with Barbell Hack Squats (not machine hacks) will produce better results through providing a wider range of stimulus.

If you plateau will back squats, the key would be breaking that plateau by increasing the weight, decreasing the reps, increasing the calories, etc. but adding another variation wouldn't be logical. I wouldn't have commented if Monday had back squats, Wednesday had front squats and Friday had hack squats. There would be nothing wrong with that. It wouldn't effect a beginners CNS since they essentially use too light of a weight.

Pick ONE EACH WORKOUT and train it hard, Front Squats are just as taxing and beneficial as back squats

Back squats overload the posterior chain more. Especially since utilization of hip drive is brought into playl.

And yes, less is more with beginners - that is why a higher rep range can be beneficial - it allows a lighter load, at which one can better accustom oneself to weight lifting and cement proper form - LIKE I SAID.

All a higher rep range would do for a beginner is not allow them to lift heavy and make the linear progress they're capable of making. They would need to begin using lower reps for sold foundation of strength, then start using the high repetitions and increasing the volume. But the base of strength is needed first.

 

[Sk8erboy]

I would disagree here. And no, I'm not a newb... I'm a two time record holding, season powerlifter (who deadlifts over triple bodyweight). In every workout I've ever put together in my weightlifting career, I've always placed compound movements first, then moved on to more specific, isolated exercises. Not that it matters in this case though, because the idea of a routine like this is to stick with the basics. Once you're done with squats, you're done with legs. Then it's on to the next muscle group. Some of the exercises listed in this write up could be considered accessory movements. But for smaller muscle groups such as tri's like you mentioned earlier, just about any movement would be.

What's funny is, this is coming from an ectomorph too (myself). What's even more funny is I'm a powerlifter. My gains from squat develop came from a routine called push/pull/legs. I decided to try the routine after failing to add mass with routine splits such as this one that was contrary to my level of training as a beginner. The unnecessary variations of movements utilizing nothing more than the first intended movement exhausted my body behind failure. It involved horizonal and vertical pushes and pulls with squats and deadlifts and not all the weird variations. What would be wrong with trying something like that before throwing in variations to each movement? Heavy squats SHOULD overload a muscle group to the point of not being able to go much further with volume. Unless you're on performance enhancing drugs, GymRats argument and post was perfectly legit. There was no need for the bash "you had a bad day" which was completely off topic. Can you not express your views without breaking the rules of personal attacks? I saw nothing offensive in his post.

To be honest bro, I think you must of just had a bad day, and decided to get on AM and trash somebody's perfectly fine, well written thread.

Under what federation are these lifts recorded under? What federation you compete in ? I compete in the USAPL, non juicers, shitty league I know. But if you are a WORLD recorder holder I can check this claim to see it is valid. What is your name?

 

[Resolve]

If you plateau will back squats, the key would be breaking that plateau by increasing the weight, decreasing the reps, increasing the calories, etc. but adding another variation wouldn't be logical. I wouldn't have commented if Monday had back squats, Wednesday had front squats and Friday had hack squats. There would be nothing wrong with that. It wouldn't effect a beginners CNS since they essentially use too light of a weight.

That's exactly what this workout is!

Back squats overload the posterior chain more. Especially since utilization of hip drive is brought into playl.

Check this out:

“The Jan 2009 issue of the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research has a University of Florida study with this conclusion:

“The front squat was as effective as the back squat in terms of overall muscle recruitment, with significantly less compressive forces and extensor moments. The results suggest that front squats may be advantageous compared with back squats for individuals with knee problems such as meniscus tears, and for long-term joint health.”

The study also found that back squats had “significantly higher” spinal-compressive forces and greater torque on the knees. Another point for front squats is improved hip mobility. Since they force you to keep an upright position, you’re allowed to achieve a greater range of motion. This means your glutes, hams, and quads are working harder.”

All a higher rep range would do for a beginner is not allow them to lift heavy and make the linear progress they're capable of making. They would need to begin using lower reps for sold foundation of strength, then start using the high repetitions and increasing the volume. But the base of strength is needed first.

Sigh...as I said before, any weightlifting with sufficient load is going to ellicit an increase in strength for a beginner, regardless of rep range - it's just adaptation to a new stimulus, and whether that be 5reps or 12, a newb will see progress.

So will anyone though: always lifting in the 3-5range is hard on the joints, and mixing things up by incorporating various set/rep schemes and differing volume keeps the body guessing and reacting to a wider variety of stimulus.

 

[GymRat7197]

So will anyone though: always lifting in the 3-5range is hard on the joints, and mixing things up by incorporating various set/rep schemes and differing volume keeps the body guessing and reacting to a wider variety of stimulus.

I tried quoting that study you posted. While I agree with some of it I disagree that back squats are hard on the knees, if you're breaking parallel it shouldn't be. Also, remember that back squats shouldn't be treated like a leg press where you would push up using your feet because that WOULD put unnecessary tension on the knees. If you use hip drive then you are applying the dominant force of tension to the posterior chain and less utlization of the quadriceps are less relied on and it becomes essentially the posterior chain with knees being an issue.

As far as 3-5 reps being hard on the joints, simply not true. We're talking about BEGINNERS remember? They're not lifting heavy enough for it to necessarily be hard on the joints and the joints will be strengthened significantly as the muscle groups progress.

Yes, you can get stronger on 6-12 reps; however, you know as well as I know that you will get stronger using 4-6 reps than using 6-12 reps due to your body being used to working with a heavier workload and this makes the CNS more efficient. Which is a primary reason powerlifters can lift more weight than bodybuilders (usually), because they have a more efficient CNS. So if the beginner uses 4-6 reps, when he stops making linear gains on his big compounds he is not longer, IMO, considered a beginner.

My favorite variation of rep range for myself (I'm not a beginner though) is using this.
3 x 10 - until I plateau, then switch to 3 x 8 with same weight then add 5 lbs the following week
3 x 8 - until I plateau, same philosophy, then switch to 5 x 5
5 x 5- until I plateau, same philosophy, then switch to 3 x 5
3 x 5- until I plateau, same philosophy, then switch to 3 x 3
3 x 3- until I plateau, with a reverse principle of going back to 3 x 10 with the weight I plaeau with to start over with the sam strategy.

Yes, mixing reps up can benefit people, since with 5 x 5 you'll gain both strength and hypertrophy BUT the hypertrophy gains plateau before the strength gains do, 3 x 10 the same thing except strength plateaus before hypertrophy does and at this extent it's harder to get bigger without increasing the intensity; however, gaining HYPERTROPHY is MORE in the nutrition and less in the reps and routine. I'm just saying that beginners should stick to 4-6 reps, train like a powerlifter until they reach a solid foundation of strength.

I think someone would better benefit from SS, push/pull/legs or Bill Starrs routine over this, in terms of beginners.

 

[wophood]

Conventional heavy back squats are PLENTY of work and all that is necessary to develop strong legs. If the persons goal would be hypertrophy the proper approach wouldn't be looking for a magical routine but increasing their calories and fixing up their diet seeing THAT is how hypertrophy is gained. All those variations of squats aren't necessary, a back squat would utilize the posterior chain, quads and back to full extent without adding in all those unnecessary variations.

As a beginner, you would master one variation of a movement before you go adding in other ones. If someone isn't growing from squats they should adjust their diet and/or gradually increase the intensity over time.

If you'd bother to take the time and ACTUALLY READ the routine, you'd realize that you're suppose to pick ONE of the exercises given PER MUSCLE GROUP... PER WORKOUT. And as far as changing it up from workout to workout, it's a must! Variation is the key element to any routine, no matter what the goal.

I tell people when I think something is wrong, stop whining about it.

Whining? Hardly. I just like to take the time to actually understand what it is I'm reading before critiquing it. So before you go and start insulting people, pull your head outta your ar$, and educate yourself. Half the things you've said thus far were points others have already made, and the rest merely dumbfound comments produced by the wake of your neglect for thoroughly reading the program. :goodpost:

If you personally think you've got a better "ecto program" by all means start a new thread. I'd be happy to read, critique, and talk smack (LMAO) there. I respect SC and his hard work too much to do it here. Grow up, this isn't a measuring contest.

 

[GymRat7197]

edited*

 

[wophood]

I believe someone from above asked you to prove yourself as a "world record holder" with that. Dickhead.

http://www.apa-wpa.com/2008WorldsResults.htm

These are the results from the last meet I attended. I'm Joseph Pallante. Like I said, if you'd like to continue this trash talk jargon of yours, PM me. I'll gladly take any questions or comments there.

 

[GymRat7197]

http://www.apa-wpa.com/2008WorldsResults.htm

These are the results from the from the last meet where this record was broken. I'm Joseph Pallante. Like I said, if you'd like to continue this trash talk jargon of yours, PM me. I'll gladly take any questions or comments there.

Alright. I'll give credit that those are impressive lifts.

Google starting strength, as a powerlifter you've probably heard of it. That's my favorite beginner program.

 

[GymRat7197]

legs - squats, hack squats, leg press, front squats
back - sumo deadlifts, suitcase deadlifts (deads with dumbells), romanian deadlifts
upper back (and biceps) - chins, reverse grip chins, pull ups, wide grip pull ups, bent over rows
chest - bench, incline bench, chest dips (head down, body forward, legs back)
triceps - close grip bench, dips (head up, body straight, legs straight), skullcrushers (while laying on a bench)
delts - military press, upright rows, clean and press, push press[/B]

After going back and reviewing, CHOOSING one of these movements per body part is a good set up. My apologies. I read it the first time but didn't get that.

The biggest thing I've had against it though is the 6-12 reps for hypertrophy. That was my main argument. It's a good set up though by choosing one movement.

My apologies to the OP.

 

[Jotan]

When is an ectomorph not an ectomorph?

Interesting read, thanks.

Q. Suncloud, you now weigh 201bs. I wouldn't class you as an ecto anymore. Do you still eat/train like an ecto?

I've gained 20lbs in the last 4 months (2 months natty with a new diet, 6 weeks on 1t-t for the rest) and I'm wondering will it all fall off if I change my routine back to strength (5x5 style) rather than hypertrophy (4 day split) but keep my new diet in check (which worked to gain weight)...

 

[suncloud]

After going back and reviewing, CHOOSING one of these movements per body part is a good set up. My apologies. I read it the first time but didn't get that.

The biggest thing I've had against it though is the 6-12 reps for hypertrophy. That was my main argument. It's a good set up though by choosing one movement.

My apologies to the OP.

its all good brotha everyone is different in this aspect, though i think its hard to increase weights on a routine basis without having a strength day, hence the 6 rep day.

Interesting read, thanks.

Q. Suncloud, you now weigh 201bs. I wouldn't class you as an ecto anymore. Do you still eat/train like an ecto?

i still eat like an ecto - 3800 calories was my recomp diet. when i started hitting the gym twice a day (over the summer), i bumped my calories up to 4700 and maintained weight. being an ecto never changes. the good news is once you build a foundation (25-40 pounds over your "base" weight) moving on to other workout routines becomes more productive. the initial theory behind my workout, and why i used it, is gaining initial mass is almost impossible without the main core lifts, and working on that 3x per week catapulted my growth. before that, i was on the same diet, but a 5 day routine and didn't have the gains i did when switching over to total body workouts. after hitting 175 pounds from a base weight of 125 (or so), i finally had the foundation to make gains from a 5 day routine.

I've gained 20lbs in the last 4 months (2 months natty with a new diet, 6 weeks on 1t-t for the rest) and I'm wondering will it all fall off if I change my routine back to strength (5x5 style) rather than hypertrophy (4 day split) but keep my new diet in check (which worked to gain weight)...

with regards to coming off cycle, i'll say that you have to work harder in PCT to maintain your gains, so keep pushing yourself with your current routine, watch the scale like a hawk, and then decide what to switch your routine to. 5x5 makes mass gains very difficult, and i suspect will make maintaining mass in PCT very difficult as well.

 

[hollifield55]

This looks like an awesome workout. I have recently got back into the gym after about two years and I may try this. How would you say this compares to starting strength?

 

[suncloud]

starting strength is a more strength oriented workout, much like powerlifting. this is more of a bulking styled workout geared towards hardgainers.

 

[DavidCopafeel]

Maybe you are an animorph

 

[DavidCopafeel]

Sometimes I don't look at which page I'm posting on. I'm a doofus

 

[DavidCopafeel]

I'm probably more like ecto-meso. Does that make a difference?

 

[suncloud]

ecto/meso's have more training options than a straight up ecto. if your training program isn't helping you bulk, this may be what you're looking for.

 

[mxer657]

helpful for my tiny ass

 

[suncloud]

at 128, i can guarantee this will pack some size on.

 

[DerickVonD]

How much different is meso ecto compared to straight meso, in terms of how ones diet and training should be. I'm not sure if I'm straight meso or meso ecto. All I know is if I get 4 or 5 meals a day I can build muscle well, as long as I have a good routine going, and I am definitely not straight ecto or ecto meso. Also I don't gain too much fat at a time. I mean I can gain fat if I'm not working out or doing cardio I can maybe gain like 5kg in 3 months and then stay around the same weight for awhile, until I start working out and then I gain muscle quickly.

 

[suncloud]

it really depends on if your body leans more towards the meso side of things or ecto side. in my opinion, you should try meso training, then ecto training, and figure out which one gives YOU the best results.

 

[DerickVonD]

it really depends on if your body leans more towards the meso side of things or ecto side. in my opinion, you should try meso training, then ecto training, and figure out which one gives YOU the best results.

My arms are kind of lean, not real skinny though average I'd say, have medium size bones and my chest and quads develop very fast. Actually come to think of it when I was doing the stronglift 5x5 program sometimes I would go jogging on off days, but yet could still squat the next day, however I couldn't go as intense on my workout days, when I did this and stopped jogging. I was only on the program for 4 or 5 months, I didn't make a lot of gains with my shoulders, but I made great gains with my legs and decent gains with my chest.

 

[suncloud]

i'd stick with a push/pull split in your case -

M - push (chest/tri's/front and mid delts

W - pull (back/bicep/rear delts

F - legs

or a more intense version
M - push
T - pull
W - off
Th - legs
F - push

or some variation of the above.

 

[DerickVonD]

i'd stick with a push/pull split in your case -

M - push (chest/tri's/front and mid delts

W - pull (back/bicep/rear delts

F - legs

or a more intense version
M - push
T - pull
W - off
Th - legs
F - push

or some variation of the above.

I was going to do this routine

Set 1 - Chest and Tris

Incline Bench (2 sets)
DB press (2 sets)
DB flyes (1 set)
Skull Crushers (2 set)
overhead DB extension (1 sets)


Set 2 - Back and Bis
chinups
Barbell Row or One Arm Rows (2 sets)
Deadlift or Stiff leg deadlift (3 sets)
BB curl (1 set)
Hammer curls (1 set)
DB Wrist Curl (1 set)
Reverse DB Wrist Curl (1 set)



Set 3 - Legs

Squats or Front Squats(3 sets)
leg curls (2 sets)
calf raises (2 sets)


Set 4 - Shoulders

Military Press (3 sets)
Lateral Raise (1 set)
Upright row (2 sets)
BB Shrugs (3 sets)
DB Shrugs (2 sets)

Was talking to another member on the forum, you can find the discussion here http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/143692-wrist-hurting-off.html

Do I sound Meso though?

 

[suncloud]

if you develop fast and have medium sized bones you lean more towards the meso side IMO.

i'd add in dips and reverse grip tri pulldowns on chest day - same amount of exercises as back/bi day, add SLDL on leg day as well as leg extensions. face pulls or rear delt raises need to go into your shoulder day, and i think you're good to go.

wish i knew anything about tendonitis, can't help you at all with your wrist. sorry about that. a while ago, hman85 suggested i split my shoulder routine up, and do front and mid delts with my chest and tri's, and rear delts with back day, and i've never been happier with my results. that gave me another day to hit my back twice a week, so its been working pretty good. just food for thought since it has helped me quite a bit.

 

[DerickVonD]

if you develop fast and have medium sized bones you lean more towards the meso side IMO.

i'd add in dips and reverse grip tri pulldowns on chest day - same amount of exercises as back/bi day, add SLDL on leg day as well as leg extensions. face pulls or rear delt raises need to go into your shoulder day, and i think you're good to go.

wish i knew anything about tendonitis, can't help you at all with your wrist. sorry about that. a while ago, hman85 suggested i split my shoulder routine up, and do front and mid delts with my chest and tri's, and rear delts with back day, and i've never been happier with my results. that gave me another day to hit my back twice a week, so its been working pretty good. just food for thought since it has helped me quite a bit.

Okay I'd only be able to add rear delt raises, since I'm limited to equipment and can't join a gyn since I have no car. How many sets would you recommend for rear delt raises? Also I was going to do this as far as rep ranges, 6-8 reps for 3 sets, 8-12 reps for 2 sets, 12 reps for 1 set. However I wasn't 100% on if I should do something like 6-8 reps for my 2 set exercises or do 8-12 reps. I would be in good shape now, but see I always over trained, especially when it came to isolation exercises, because until I found this site I had no clue what I was doing, however when I first started bench pressing my chest grew like crazy and has been very defined ever since.

 

[suncloud]

ah, no gym. alrighty. you could target your rear tri's by doing reverse grip skullcrushers (it'll feel like you're going to drop the weight on your forehead). SLDL for legs is stiff legged deadlifts (your hams will give out way before your lower back).

maybe doing a DC rest pause for your sets? 8-12, 30 second break, 4-6 reps, 30 second break, 2-3 reps - done. you could also do a set of 8-12, work up to your heavy set of 6 reps, and do the "thundergod" back off set using lighter than your 8-12 rep weights till you hit failure somewhere between 15-20 reps. it builds the nastiest pump you've ever had.

for example (since i can't understand what i wrote), i bench 225 for 8 reps, 245 for 6, then my back off set with 185 for 15-20 reps. its terribly intense.

 

[DerickVonD]

ah, no gym. alrighty. you could target your rear tri's by doing reverse grip skullcrushers (it'll feel like you're going to drop the weight on your forehead). SLDL for legs is stiff legged deadlifts (your hams will give out way before your lower back).

maybe doing a DC rest pause for your sets? 8-12, 30 second break, 4-6 reps, 30 second break, 2-3 reps - done. you could also do a set of 8-12, work up to your heavy set of 6 reps, and do the "thundergod" back off set using lighter than your 8-12 rep weights till you hit failure somewhere between 15-20 reps. it builds the nastiest pump you've ever had.

for example (since i can't understand what i wrote), i bench 225 for 8 reps, 245 for 6, then my back off set with 185 for 15-20 reps. its terribly intense.

Okay, so if I do reverse grip skull crushes, is there a need to do skull crushers with a normal grip? Also, is reverse grip with palms towards you or palms facing away?

 

[suncloud]

yes, you have to do both grips. to target all 3 heads, you use an overhand, underhand and parallel grip. the underhand grip is much harder (and very few people train it), but it completes the horseshoe shape of the tricep. its also a massive portion of your arm, and distinctly worth training.

if you're lying down doing skullcrushers with an EZ bar, reverse grip is where your palms are facing you. for safety reasons, go light the first few times you try this.

 

[DerickVonD]

yes, you have to do both grips. to target all 3 heads, you use an overhand, underhand and parallel grip. the underhand grip is much harder (and very few people train it), but it completes the horseshoe shape of the tricep. its also a massive portion of your arm, and distinctly worth training.

if you're lying down doing skullcrushers with an EZ bar, reverse grip is where your palms are facing you. for safety reasons, go light the first few times you try this.

I just have a flat bar and dumbbells, but I guess the straight bar will work. Okay how should I adjust my routine here is what I have so far. THis is my whole routine I was set on doing.
Set 1 - Chest and Tris

Incline Bench (2 sets)
DB press (2 sets)
DB flyes (1 set)
Skull Crushers (2 set)
Reverse grip Skull Crushers (2 set)
overhead DB extension (1 sets)


Set 2 - Back and Bis Deadlift
chinups
Alt Barbell Row or One Arm Rows (2 sets)
Deadlift (3 sets)
BB curl (1 set)
Hammer curls (1 set)
DB Wrist Curl (1 set)
Reverse DB Wrist Curl (1 set)



Set 3 - Legs

Squats or Front Squats (3 sets)
Stiff leg deadlift (3 set)
leg curls (2 sets)
calf raises (2 sets)


Set 4 - Shoulders

Military Press (3 sets)
Lateral Raise (1 set)
rear delt raises (1 set)
Upright row (2 sets)
BB Shrugs (3 sets)
DB Shrugs (2 sets)


Day 1: chest and tris
Day 2: off
Day 3 back and bi's
Day 4: off
Day 5: Legs
day 6: Shoulders
day 7 off
day 8 off

 

[suncloud]

i like the routine


based on recovery, you could also do :

day 1 - chest/tri's
day 2 - back/bi's
day 3 - off
day 4 - legs
day 5 - shoulders
day 6 - off
day 7 - off

 

[DerickVonD]

i like the routine


based on recovery, you could also do :

day 1 - chest/tri's
day 2 - back/bi's
day 3 - off
day 4 - legs
day 5 - shoulders
day 6 - off
day 7 - off

Okay when I was on my old routine it took me 2-3 days to recovery fully from my back days doing deads before I could work on my legs again and do squats. This routine will probably hold different results. I was doing this just before I got injured.
Set 1 - Back and Bis
chinups
One Arm Rows (2 sets)

Deadlift (3 sets)

BB curl (1 set)

Hammer curls (1 set)


DB Wrist Curl (1 set)


Reverse DB Wrist Curl (1 set)


Set 2 - Chest and Tris

Bench (3sets)

DB flyes ss DB press (2 sets)

overhead DB extension (1 sets)

Close grip bench press (2 sets)



Set 3 - Legs

Front Squat or squats (3 sets)



Stiffleg deadlift (3 sets)


calf raises (2 sets, high reps)


Set 5 - Shoulders

Military Press (3 sets)

BB Shrugs (3 sets)

Upright row (2 sets)

DB Shrugs (2 sets)

Lateral Raise (1 set)



For the main exercises keep between 6 and 8 reps per set. When you get 24 total then up the weight.
For the secondaries (2 sets) keep between 8 and 12 reps. When you get 24 total then up the weight.



Day 1: Back and Biceps
Day 2: Chest and Triceps
Day 3 off
Day 4: off
Day 5: Legs
day 6: Shoulders
day 7 off
day 8 off

For the main exercises keep between 6 and 8 reps per set. When you get 24 total then up the weight.
For the secondaries (2 sets) keep between 8 and 12 reps. When you get 24 total then up the weight.

Do one set of flyes and reach failure between 8 and 12 reps then immediately do presses until failure using the same dumbbells. Its a super set so flyes + presses = one set. Rest 2-3 min and then do it again. Once you can do more than 40 total reps I'd up the weight.

Pick a weight that you can do between 18 and 22 resp with it. When you can do 25 up the weight.
(single sets)

 

[suncloud]

how about using the routine from post 86 using this split

M - back/bi's
T - chest/tri's
W - off
Th - legs
F - shoulders
S - off
Sun - off

 

[DerickVonD]

how about using the routine from post 86 using this split

M - back/bi's
T - chest/tri's
W - off
Th - legs
F - shoulders
S - off
Sun - off

One final question. How much cardio do you recommend?

 

[suncloud]

completely on an individual basis. 20 minutes a week for the cardio benefits - more than that will chew away at calories, and its hard to bulk without them. you can obviously do more cardio if you feel the need.

 

[DerickVonD]

completely on an individual basis. 20 minutes a week for the cardio benefits - more than that will chew away at calories, and its hard to bulk without them. you can obviously do more cardio if you feel the need.

cool thanks alot for all the help

 

[suncloud]

that's what we're here for brotha

 

[hollifield55]

I did the ecto workout for the first time two days ago... still sore. Suncloud, you weren't kidding when you said this will beat you senseless. I am liking the idea of training full body in one workout though because my work schedule is kinda crazy. Today will be my second ecto workout. I'm pumped.

 

[suncloud]

awesome my brotha. ease into it - maybe 2-3 sets instead, until your body starts recovering quicker. it put a good 30% to my body mass before i had to switch out routines, so i hope it takes you as far or beyond.

 

[kingk0ng]

Good write up.

 

[zodiiac523]

just started this, as recommended by kingk0ng above... had my first session just couple hours ago and it was awesome...


how does this look?

sat- ecto 1/cardio
sun- abs/cardio
mon- off
tue- ecto 2/cardio
wed- abs/cardio
thu- ecto 3/cardio
fri- off

Ecto 1
Squats
Bent over rows
Close Grip Bench
Military Presses
Weighted Chest Dips

Ecto 2
Flat Bench
Deadlifts
DB Presses
Leg Presses
Bent Rows
Weighted Tricep Dips

Ecto 3
Flat Bench (maybe Incline?)
Deadlifts
DB Presses
Weighted Pull Ups
Leg Presses
Weighted Tricep Dips

Im still trying to get rid of about 4% more bodyfat is the reason for all the cardio, but any suggestions on what to do on the ab days? besides calves and forearms, im thinking of maybe adding a bicep exercise or 2 on one of them because im pretty sure my weighted pull ups are going to suck at first, and i dont think the bent rows are enuff for bicep.. idk though thats why im asking haha

 

[suncloud]

personally i'd keep all 3 of the workouts the same, just work on upgrading the reps, and of course the weight on a weekly basis. with regards to biceps, try doing weighted chins for your upper back exercise. if that doesn't build a wicked pump, something is wrong.

 

[zodiiac523]

Alright Dude sounds good.. ill roll with this then

Deadlifts
Flat Bench
Leg Presses
Dumb Bell Presses
Weighted Tricep Dips
Weighted chins


only thing is im not sure sure how effectively i can do the weighted chin ups, i have never tried them with weight before, i can do 8-10 without added weight..

and what would you recommend do on the ab days? Maybe some traps, calves, forearms spread amongst the 2 ab days?

 

[suncloud]

try rack chins then they're easier to go up in weight on, and a solid variation.


[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCbSI4bNekM"]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]


EDIT : did i loose my video posting privilidges, or is this an across the board thing? i can't embed for the life of me anymore.