The Ectomorph Workout

zodiiac523

zodiiac523

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
tried weighted pull ups close and wide grip, close ones i can handle weighted, did sets of 8 with 10 lbs close grip, but wide grips were a different story... think im just going to incorporate close grip in there for now and hoping the wide ones will come later, seem to work great for bicep tho..
 
kingk0ng

kingk0ng

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Was it pullups or chinups? If you're not strong enough for pullups chinups can help.

And I wanna see some squats in your routine.
 
zodiiac523

zodiiac523

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Deads and squats on the same day would kill me rite now, I planned on keeping it with leg presses for about a month then switching those out with squats..

and they were chin ups..
 
kingk0ng

kingk0ng

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Deads and squats on the same day would kill me rite now, I planned on keeping it with leg presses for about a month then switching those out with squats..

and they were chin ups..
You realize squats are the most useful mass building exercise and brings excellent hormonal benefits right? And that leg presses develop the quads and not the hamstrings; which can account for ACL injuries and keep your spine in a compressed position. Never replace squats with a leg press, that is not only counterproductive, but just crazy.

You're missing out on about 30% of your gains by not doing squats. I'm telling you.

Leg presses will not have carryover into a properly performed squat. Properly performed squats come from the posterior chain and glutes, which are not stretched and worked maximally due to no hip involvement with a leg press. You're going to damage your back, legs, weaken your core and basically train counterproductive by doing presses over squats.
 
suncloud

suncloud

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
the leg press is an acceptable alternative, but nothing beats good old squats for sheer mass.
 
zodiiac523

zodiiac523

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
You realize squats are the most useful mass building exercise and brings excellent hormonal benefits right? And that leg presses develop the quads and not the hamstrings; which can account for ACL injuries and keep your spine in a compressed position. Never replace squats with a leg press, that is not only counterproductive, but just crazy.

You're missing out on about 30% of your gains by not doing squats. I'm telling you.

Leg presses will not have carryover into a properly performed squat. Properly performed squats come from the posterior chain and glutes, which are not stretched and worked maximally due to no hip involvement with a leg press. You're going to damage your back, legs, weaken your core and basically train counterproductive by doing presses over squats.

I understand squats are important, but rite now i dont think i could do squats and deads on same day, simply because once my hammys start getting tired the knee i had surgery on starts buckling up on me..I may be able to start with squats and end with deads, that may be an adequate amount of time of rest for them, but ive been scared to finish any of my workouts with a leg exercise like that since i tweaked my knee about 3 months ago doing lunges at the end of a leg routine.. damn thing buckled up on me on the way down.
 
suncloud

suncloud

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
yeah, stick with the leg press for a while till you feel comfortable enough to do squats then. my left ACL got tweaked, so i feel your pain brotha. safety first - you'll never bulk if you get injured twice a year.
 
kingk0ng

kingk0ng

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
A person without an ACL should be able to squat much easier than leg press because a properly performed squat does not stress the ACL.

Zodiac the chances are you will never know just really how effective the squat is without reading the starting strength book. Leg presses can tear your ACL because they will develop the quads and neglect the hamstrings, which plays a huge roll in ACL injuries.

Here are some notes I took when reading the Starting Strength book, maybe this will change your mind.

Starting Strength Notes

Width of the feet placement tightens the hip at the bottom of a squat and narrowness of the feet disables the adductors from stretching and prevents the body from making its full range of motion.

During partial squats the hamstrings are not allowed their full and natural stretch and the result is most of the stress against the tibia being upwards and forwards from the quadriceps producing an anterior shear, forward directed sliding force on the knee with the tibia being pulled forward from the patellar tendon and without a balancing pull from the hamstrings.

Overactive quads and weak/underdeveloped hamstrings play a huge roll in anterior cruciate ligament tears, a properly performed squat perfectly balances the muscular activity in the legs and puts the acl under no stress.

Another problem is that because of the shorter ROM and the excessive loading to the spine from putting too much weight on your back than your stabilizer maturity has developed to handle.

If your knees go too far back behind your toes, you have to lean far forward to stay in balance. Knees too far forward produces too acute of a knee angle, throwing your weight on your toes and making hip drive out of the bottom inefficient by loosening up the hamstrings.

Adductors can function when the kneees are out. If the knees are together, as when they point forward and the thighs get parallel to each other, the groin muscles are in a position where they are already shortened without having to lift any weight forcing the quads to do all of the work, while the adductors have contribued nothing to the movement.

The squat is not a leg press, and pushing the floor with
the feet provides an inadequate cue for the hamstrings, adductors, and glutes to provide their power out of the bottom. Hip extension is the first part of the upward drive out of the bottom. When you think about raising your butt up out of the bottom, the nervous system has a simple, efficient way to fire the correct motor units to initiate hip extension. If you are having trouble with this movement, it will help to have a coach or training partner push down on your sacrum from above while you are in the bottom position, and then drive up against the pressure. If you can do this in balance you are driving up correctly.

you want the hips and shoulders to rise at the same pace.

Sets of five are a good number to learn with, not so many that fatigue affects form during the last reps, and enough to establish and practice the technique while handling enough weight to get strong.Sets of five are a good number to learn with, not so many that fatigue affects form during the last reps, and enough to establish and practice the technique while handling enough weight to get strong. Squatting in front of a mirror is a really bad idea. Many weight rooms have mirrors on all the walls, making it impossible to squat without a mirror there, within eyesight, giving you its bad feedback. A mirror is a bad tool because it provides information about only one plane, the frontal, and depth cannot be judged by looking in the mirror from the front. Some obliqueness of angle is required to see the relationship between patella and hip crease, but a mirror set at an oblique angle would produce a twisting of the neck. Cervical rotation under a heavy bar is just as bad an idea as cervical hyperextension under a heavy bar. But the best reason not to use a mirror in front of any multijoint exercise is that you should be developing kinesthetic sense of movement by paying attention to all the sensory input provided by proprioception, rather than focusing merely on visual input from a mirror. "Learn to feel it, not just see it."

However, as the squat approaches the bottom position, the necessary forward lean of the trunk has a tendency to make the lower back assume a flexed, "rounded" position. This is due to the hamstring anatomy. As the squat depth increases and the torso assumes a more forward tilt, the bottom of the pelvis (the origin point of the hamstrings), locked into the rigid spine, tilts away from the back of the knee (the insertion point of the hamstrings). As these what you do with the hamstrings, along with the glutes and adductors. The drive out of the bottom is hip extension, and the more efficiently you use hamstrings, adductors, and glutes, the more hip drive you have. This is another reason why good depth is important: the deeper you can squat with good form, the more the hamstrings are stretched, and the longer they are when they begin to contract the longer they can produce force during the contraction.

Squatting power is generated by the hips and legs and is transmitted up the rigid trunk
segment to the load resting on the shoulders. The spinal column is held rigid in its normal
anatomical position by the muscles of the back, sides, ribs and abs, so that the force may be safely transmitted to the load through the trunk. These muscles contract isometrically — that is, they stay in contraction but cause no movement to occur, and in doing so they permit no movement to occur. The pelvis articulates with the spine in the L5/S1 area of the lower back, the area above the tailbone. The muscles of the lower back — the erector spinae group — insert on the pelvis and at numerous points along the spinal column, so that when these muscles are in contraction the pelvis remains in a constant position relative to the lumbar vertebrae. The erector spinae serve to lock the pelvis and the lower back together, to fuse the pelvis and spine into a rigid structure, to protect the vertebral column from movement under load and to hold all these joints in normal anatomical position when lifting heavy loads so that the intervertebral discs are not damaged. These muscles, along with several ligaments and other connective tissue, act to keep the lower back in extension under a load. This area needs to stay "arched" to stay safe when lifiting. And this is why the pelvis tilts forward at the same angle as the lower back as we lean forward with the back locked in a safe extended position.

Tight hamstrings cause most back position problems. A deterioration in kyphotic extension precedes the deterioration in lordotic extension, culminating in a round back at the bottom. This is due to the lack of extensibility in the hamstrings and the resultant ability to maintain a good pelvic tilt at depth, and the false perception of depth created by lowering just the bar.

The "Cat box position," a result of tight hamstrings. Knee and hip extension are limited by hamstring extensibility and the bar is then lowered by spinal flexion. This is an excellent way to produce a back injury.

Muscles reach the limit of their ability to stretch, they become tighter and begin to exert more pull on both the knee and their pelvic attachment. Merc is the source of the lower back problem: your back muscles attach at the top of your pelvis, and your hamstrings attach to the bottom. If your hamstrings lack sufficient extensibility, they will exert enough tension on the bottom of your pelvis to pull it out of its locked position in the lower back, breaking muscular tension in the erector spinae, and permitting your entire lower back to come out of extension into a "round" position. The back muscles and the hamstrings are competing for control of your pelvis, and the back

Merc is the source of the lower back problem: your back muscles attach at the top of your pelvis, and your hamstrings attach to the bottom. If your hamstrings lack sufficient extensibility, they will exert enough tension on the bottom of your pelvis to pull it out of its locked position in the lower back, breaking muscular tension in the erector spinae, and permitting your entire lower back to come out of extension into a "round" position.The back muscles and the hamstrings are competing for control of your pelvis, and the back muscles must win if your spine is to stay safe.

Your best power is achieved when your hips continue straight up out of the bottom, your tibias serving as anchors for your hamstrings, your hamstrings and adductors contracting against the pelvis to produce hip extension, your quads then producing knee extension and then your knees and hips locking out simultaneously at the top.

Driving chest up instead of hips up kills hamstring power in the middle of the squat.
Raising the chest pulls the knees forward, and when the knee angle closes the hamstring shortens. Any muscle that assumes a position of contraction without moving a
load during that contraction has not actively contributed to that movement. This phenomenon will be observed often throughout this examination of barbell training.

Remember: the pelvis is locked in position — in line with the spine — by the low back muscles, the hamstrings attach to the ischial tuberosity at the bottom of the pelvis, and the pelvis tilts forward with the torso as squat depth increases, thus stretching out the hamstrings and glutes.

The bounce at the b o t t om of the squat is merely the correct use of the stretch reflex — a muscle contraction enhanced by the proprioceptive detection of muscle elongation immediately prior to the contraction — inherent in any dynamic muscle contraction, added to the rebound provided by the viscoelastic energy stored in the stretched muscles and tendons.

The correct bottom position of the squat stretches the hamstrings and adductors, and the drive up utilizes that stretch. The contraction is evident as the muscles shorten during the ascent. The "bounce" is the stretch-shortening cycle applied to the elastic rebound that tight, stretched muscles and tendons provide at the bottom of the squat.
The problem with knees too far forward is not that it destroys the knees, but that it
has a detrimental effect on hip extension out of the bottom. A knees-forward position produces a more acute knee angle, and the resultant shortened hamstrings have less room to contract from the other end. This makes the already-contracted hamstring's contribution to hip extension much less efficient than a longer, stretched-out hamstring's would be.
I underlined a specific sentence. The best thing you can do is leave the leg press alone and get squatting. Your knees, core, posterior chain, spine, and endocrine system will thank you. :)
 
kingk0ng

kingk0ng

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I understand squats are important, but rite now i dont think i could do squats and deads on same day, simply because once my hammys start getting tired the knee i had surgery on starts buckling up on me..I may be able to start with squats and end with deads, that may be an adequate amount of time of rest for them, but ive been scared to finish any of my workouts with a leg exercise like that since i tweaked my knee about 3 months ago doing lunges at the end of a leg routine.. damn thing buckled up on me on the way down.
I gave you a few notes of mine from starting strength to teach you how to squat properly and the safety of the knees to a properly performed squat.

Yeah make sure there's an exercise between squats and deadlifts so that the energy in the hamstrings have time to recuperate and you can perform your deadlifts.

Something like this:

1) Squat
2) Bench
3) Deadlift
4) BB Row

If your hamstrings get tight when squatting it is just how you're new to squatting. Follow up the next week after the soreness and the feel of the muscle being "pulled" goes away and you can squat again and you shouldn't have this same pain. I've experienced it before, too.

Never do a quad movement like a leg press, which is bad for the spine and core anyway, over squats even if you have knee problems. Squats balance the muscles surrounding the femur and patella while leg presses develop the muscle more than any other in the leg that is known for causing ACL injuries.
 
zodiiac523

zodiiac523

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
Ill try it out tonight, assuming i can make it, snowed again all night and my car sucks in the snow (1989 camaro rear wheel drive)... but assuming i make it ill try this

Squats
Flat Bench
Deadlifts
Military Presses
Weighted Chin Ups
Weighted Tricep Dips
 
suncloud

suncloud

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Squats
Flat Bench
Deadlifts
Military Presses
Weighted Chin Ups
Weighted Tricep Dips
that's the king of the compound movements IMO. those 6 are unbelievable for all out mass, and functional strength :)
 
kingk0ng

kingk0ng

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
I would take out the dips and add bent over barbell rows. Rows are needed to keep the retractors of the scapulae developed and the shoulders external rotators. Without them you'll be much more prone to rotator cuff injuries.

You don't even really have to take out the weighted dips if you enjoy doing them, but you need rows definitely.
 
zodiiac523

zodiiac523

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
been on this for about 3 weeks now, this **** has helped me so much already, definitely already seeing gains.. question though, how much should i be increasing the weight per week, say i do 205 and rep it 8 times all 4 sets, one week, i would assume i need to increase the weight but how much is significant enuff, maybe add 10 lbs on it the next week, also if i dont rep something out all the way, say i fail on a lift only getting 8 reps on first 2 sets then barely getting 6 on last 2 or something, im guessing i stay at the weight i failed on until I rep it out every set?
 
suncloud

suncloud

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
been on this for about 3 weeks now, this **** has helped me so much already, definitely already seeing gains.. question though, how much should i be increasing the weight per week, say i do 205 and rep it 8 times all 4 sets, one week, i would assume i need to increase the weight but how much is significant enuff, maybe add 10 lbs on it the next week, also if i dont rep something out all the way, say i fail on a lift only getting 8 reps on first 2 sets then barely getting 6 on last 2 or something, im guessing i stay at the weight i failed on until I rep it out every set?
use the 2.5 pound plates :) if you can do 205 for sets of 10 you should be able to hit 210 for sets of 6. if you fail on the last two reps, i'd stay there for another week till you get the last two reps. if you can't make that happen in two weeks, switch out the exercise.
 
zodiiac523

zodiiac523

Active member
Awards
1
  • Established
use the 2.5 pound plates :) if you can do 205 for sets of 10 you should be able to hit 210 for sets of 6. if you fail on the last two reps, i'd stay there for another week till you get the last two reps. if you can't make that happen in two weeks, switch out the exercise.
aight bro, ill break those big 2 1/2's out.. appreciate all the help man..
 

Lukeman1984

New member
Awards
0
Suncloud you're an inspiration to me. I am gonna get a gym membership this May and do it for 3 months at first. I am so sick of being a skinny 6'1 145 lb ectomorph. I developed gluten intolerance 2 years ago which dropped by weight from 160 down to what I am. I've had to eat gluten free the last year and avoid dairy so I can heal. It's been a pain in the ass not seeing ANY results from my workouts and I was doing a 3 day upper/lower with no results because my body is not absorbing nutrients from my food. I saw this post while google searching for legit ectomorph workouts wihtout the stupid 3 day splits that have you hit muscle groups once a week. I did that 2 yrs ago and made no gains. It it wasn't for finding this article and joining this site, I would have gave up on my muscle building passion and resorted to taking dianob or other steroids. I almost lost all hope.

If I got up to 170-190 I'd feel so much better about my body. God I hope I make amazing muscle gains this year following your 3 day full body program bro.
 

Similar threads


Top