The Arachidonic Acid Help Guide

[Geoffr]

Yes my plan is to take it only on workout days, PRE workout. So I'll dose fish oil first thing upon waking.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

So should I avoid fish oil completely? Usually take it upon waking up and will workout 5+ hours after waking up? Is that enough time or should I just cut it out?

Your run will be more effective if you just don't take any omega 3 supplements through out the entire duration of it.

 

[Geoffr]

Your run will be more effective if you just don't take any omega 3 supplements through out the entire duration of it.

That's what I figured, the only reason I'm questioning it is because of my tendonitis in my right elbow (golfers elbow)

 

[NoAddedHmones]

That's what I figured, the only reason I'm questioning it is because of my tendonitis in my right elbow (golfers elbow)

Yeah gonna be very touch and go with how you fair with ARA then, fish oils likely won’t do chit

 

[nmendez]

I'll be doing the advanced cycle which is listed on the first page.
Anyone know if there are specific times I should be taking HCA or ABE ? Should I just follow the instructions on the bottles or do I have to these supplements at a specific time of the day? Do I have to take them a specific amount of time before or after i take the arachidonic acid? Thanks in advance

 

[Nickeriaan]

Is citrulline malate a good combination, because it helps decreasing the lactic acid in your muscle? And curcuma should also be taken 4 hours away?

 

[rrivers]

I posted this in a separate thread earlier today but thought I might get a better response moving my question here:

I just got a couple bottles of x-gels and have been doing a fair amount of research on how best to run it. I've got ALCAR and GMS to make sure I get the most out of the product and I know it is best used when taken fasted pre-workout. My question is, can I continue my normal peri-workout nutrition routine? I make a shake of 30g cyclic dextrin and 15g whey/casein protein to drink 15 mins prior to workout. Intra-workout I sip another shake of the same. Will the pre-workout carbs cause insulin to shuttle the ARA to adipose tissue and null its effects?

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[Wildcat528]

Is there a list of supplements that should not be taken near ARA dosing or during an ARA run in general? I know omega 3s/fish oil but curious what else to keep an eye out for.

 

[Geoffr]

Your run will be more effective if you just don't take any omega 3 supplements through out the entire duration of it.

Right on, so I cut out Omega 3s. I started the Xgels yesterday because my PCT starts next week. Should I avoid anything else with Xgels or around the same time frame as Xgels when taken PWO?

Two weeks into my PCT I'm going to throw in Epilogue (Epicatechin), DermaStrength Unleashed (Laxogen), Reduce XT, and Mtest. Would any of these conflict with Xgels?

 

[Urban Monk]

Is current best practices using GMS (glycergrow) or soy lecithin granules (now Foods)?

If so, how much of either?

 

[gnbbc]

Is current best practices using GMS (glycergrow) or soy lecithin granules (now Foods)?

If so, how much of either?

Both options are good, check 1st page of this thread for more info

 

[bigdavid]

You can get lecithin for super cheap at local stores like Walmart. I still haven’t found GMS anywhere locally but amazon has good prices on it. But lecithin usually comes capped already from what I’ve bought but gms does have the added benefit of being a volumizer. Can’t really go wrong with either, or neither lol

 

[Geoffr]

You can get lecithin for super cheap at local stores like Walmart. I still haven’t found GMS anywhere locally but amazon has good prices on it. But lecithin usually comes capped already from what I’ve bought but gms does have the added benefit of being a volumizer. Can’t really go wrong with either, or neither lol

Can someone explain the added benifit of adding those to with Xgels?

 

[bigdavid]

Can someone explain the added benifit of adding those to with Xgels?

The theory (used in the loose sense) is that lecithin or gms can act as an emulsifier and allow higher absorption of the ARA. The concept is similar to washing your hands with just water or washing your hands with water and soap. The soap emulsifiers the dirt and leaves your hands cleaner. So emulsifying the ARA should theoretically increase absorption as it essentially piggybacks on the emulsifying agent.

 

[Jiigzz]

The theory (used in the loose sense) is that lecithin or gms can act as an emulsifier and allow higher absorption of the ARA. The concept is similar to washing your hands with just water or washing your hands with water and soap. The soap emulsifiers the dirt and leaves your hands cleaner. So emulsifying the ARA should theoretically increase absorption as it essentially piggybacks on the emulsifying agent.

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

The most important thing you can do though, is just not use Fish Oil around the same time

 

[Geoffr]

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

The most important thing you can do though, is just not use Fish Oil around the same time

I completely cut off fish oil because I was worried, unless their is some sort of time frame I can work in fish oils Without negatively impacting the Xgels?

 

[mbonheur]

I am wondering whether it is such a big deal anyways. I do not get the impression that people were getting less results with the advanced formula including fish oil by the other major ArA brand (MN).

I will soon run my new ArA, I hope it will be more successful this time. I will run 6 caps from the start

 

[Jiigzz]

I completely cut off fish oil because I was worried, unless their is some sort of time frame I can work in fish oils Without negatively impacting the Xgels?

It's best to just avoid them completely. It's only for like 50 days or so, and can be done without. If you absolutely need them, then the further away you can dose them is best. Id say 4 hours after training, to allow for 16 hours or so until the next session.

 

[Jiigzz]

I am wondering whether it is such a big deal anyways. I do not get the impression that people were getting less results with the advanced formula including fish oil by the other major ArA brand (MN).

I will soon run my new ArA, I hope it will be more successful this time. I will run 6 caps from the start

It absolutely is.

When MN used to sell X Factor, I would tell people either X gels or X Factor would work. Both are identical. But then for some odd reason they used omega 3 with an omega 6, neglecting the basics of omega interaction.

For example: Interactions of saturated, n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids to modulate arachidonic acid metabolism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2109031

In the inflammatory response, two other groups of dietary essential fatty acids form cascades that parallel and compete with the arachidonic acid cascade.

Then the below, taken from wikipedia because i'm lazy

Displacement[edit]
Dietary ω-3 decreases tissue concentrations of AA. Animal studies show that increased dietary ω-3 results in decreased AA in brain and other tissue,.[19] Linolenic acid (18:3 ω-3) contributes to this by displacing linoleic acid (18:2 ω-6) from the elongase and desaturase enzymes that produce AA. EPA inhibits phospholipase A2's release of AA from cell membrane.[20] Other mechanisms involving the transport of EFAs may also play a role.

The reverse is also true – high dietary linoleic acid decreases the body's conversion of α-linolenic acid to EPA. However, the effect is not as strong; the desaturase has a higher affinity for α-linolenic acid than it has for linoleic acid.[21]

Competitive Inhibition[edit]
DGLA and EPA compete with AA for access to the cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase enzymes. So the presence of DGLA and EPA in tissues lowers the output of AA's eicosanoids. For example, dietary GLA increases tissue DGLA and lowers TXB2.[22][23] Likewise, EPA inhibits the production of series-2 PG and TX.[17] Although DGLA forms no LTs, a DGLA derivative blocks the transformation of AA to LTs.[24]

Counteraction[edit]
Some DGLA and EPA derived eicosanoids counteract their AA derived counterparts. For example, DGLA yields PGE1, which powerfully counteracts PGE2.[25] EPA yields the antiaggregatory prostacyclin PGI3 [26] It also yields the leuokotriene LTB5 which vitiates the action of the AA-derived LTB4.[27]

 

[mbonheur]

It absolutely is.

When MN used to sell X Factor, I would tell people either X gels or X Factor would work. Both are identical. But then for some odd reason they used omega 3 with an omega 6, neglecting the basics of omega interaction.

For example: Interactions of saturated, n-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids to modulate arachidonic acid metabolism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2109031

In the inflammatory response, two other groups of dietary essential fatty acids form cascades that parallel and compete with the arachidonic acid cascade.

Then the below, taken from wikipedia because i'm lazy

Displacement[edit]
Dietary ω-3 decreases tissue concentrations of AA. Animal studies show that increased dietary ω-3 results in decreased AA in brain and other tissue,.[19] Linolenic acid (18:3 ω-3) contributes to this by displacing linoleic acid (18:2 ω-6) from the elongase and desaturase enzymes that produce AA. EPA inhibits phospholipase A2's release of AA from cell membrane.[20] Other mechanisms involving the transport of EFAs may also play a role.

The reverse is also true – high dietary linoleic acid decreases the body's conversion of α-linolenic acid to EPA. However, the effect is not as strong; the desaturase has a higher affinity for α-linolenic acid than it has for linoleic acid.[21]

Competitive Inhibition[edit]
DGLA and EPA compete with AA for access to the cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase enzymes. So the presence of DGLA and EPA in tissues lowers the output of AA's eicosanoids. For example, dietary GLA increases tissue DGLA and lowers TXB2.[22][23] Likewise, EPA inhibits the production of series-2 PG and TX.[17] Although DGLA forms no LTs, a DGLA derivative blocks the transformation of AA to LTs.[24]

Counteraction[edit]
Some DGLA and EPA derived eicosanoids counteract their AA derived counterparts. For example, DGLA yields PGE1, which powerfully counteracts PGE2.[25] EPA yields the antiaggregatory prostacyclin PGI3 [26] It also yields the leuokotriene LTB5 which vitiates the action of the AA-derived LTB4.[27]

I do think that I understand the science behind this, but is there actual user feedback saying that the advanced formula by MN is working less than the old one? I don't get the impression when I am looking for reviews.

I will always buy Sns anyways as they are better priced, but I am just wondering about this. Like if the lost benefit of ArA from using Fish oil is not slightly overstated in practical applications

 

[Jiigzz]

I do think that I understand the science behind this, but is there actual user feedback saying that the advanced formula by MN is working less than the old one? I don't get the impression when I am looking for reviews.

I will always buy Sns anyways as they are better priced, but I am just wondering about this. Like if the lost benefit of ArA from using Fish oil is not slightly overstated in practical applications

Based on user feedback? Prob not. But based on what is actually happening? You are significantly reducing the impact/ potential of the product.

User feedback is a terrible marker of what actually works. Amentoflavone for example has tremendous feedback, but has no % chance of doing anything, regardless of what people think.

 

[Urban Monk]

Based on user feedback? Prob not. But based on what is actually happening? You are significantly reducing the impact/ potential of the product.

User feedback is a terrible marker of what actually works. Amentoflavone for example has tremendous feedback, but has no % chance of doing anything, regardless of what people think.

Why do you say this re: amentoflavone?

 

[De__eB]

Why do you say this re: amentoflavone?

What about amentoflavone leads you to believe it *does* work?

 

[De__eB]

Why do you say this re: amentoflavone?

What about amentoflavone leads you to believe it *does* work?

 

[Wildcat528]

Should EGCG be avoided around taking x gels? I believe it has some anti inflammatory properties. Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[warbird01]

Should EGCG be avoided around taking x gels? I believe it has some anti inflammatory properties. Any insight would be appreciated!

I would just dose it away from ArA to be safe. Probably won't make a difference though.

 

[bigdavid]

There are so many compounds that have anti-inflammatory properties it will make your head spin trying to get rid of them all. Add that to the fact that some are included in preworkout drinks. The only compounds I’d worry about are ones that go against the ARA pathway specifically. So any fish/krill oil with EPA/DHA. And last any nsaid doses at normal-high levels (I’d say ibuprofen at 400-800 mg is what I’d avoid. baby aspirin is ok). Besides that I wouldn’t pick hairs

 

[Jiigzz]

There are so many compounds that have anti-inflammatory properties it will make your head spin trying to get rid of them all. Add that to the fact that some are included in preworkout drinks. The only compounds I’d worry about are ones that go against the ARA pathway specifically. So any fish/krill oil with EPA/DHA. And last any nsaid doses at normal-high levels (I’d say ibuprofen at 400-800 mg is what I’d avoid. baby aspirin is ok). Besides that I wouldn’t pick hairs

+1.

 

[jameschoi]

MN has a 100 cap bottle for $20.
350mg ARA Power (10% arachidonic acid) per capsule
As much ARA as 6 ounces of USDA Beef

Is this worth it.

 

[Jiigzz]

MN has a 100 cap bottle for $20.
350mg ARA Power (10% arachidonic acid) per capsule
As much ARA as 6 ounces of USDA Beef

Is this worth it.

Nah, that is only 35mg of Ara per cap (10% of 350mg). You need one that is 250mg ARA minimum.

 

[macwad]

Any BF sale on Xgels?

 

[Jbaggyballs]

I’m 2 weeks in to running X-gels and I’m definately feeling more sore. The only problem is dosing and working out on an empty stomach is killing my energy levels in the gym! Say I have my lunchtime meal of oats, chicken and potato’s (1300 cals) what’s the best protocol for me to follow?

I’m currently dosing 4 hours after that meal about 20mins preworkout. Is waiting 4 hours overkill?

 

[warbird01]

I’m 2 weeks in to running X-gels and I’m definately feeling more sore. The only problem is dosing and working out on an empty stomach is killing my energy levels in the gym! Say I have my lunchtime meal of oats, chicken and potato’s (1300 cals) what’s the best protocol for me to follow?

I’m currently dosing 4 hours after that meal about 20mins preworkout. Is waiting 4 hours overkill?

If it's killing your workout it's overkill. Workout>supplements. I would eat 2-3 hours before then take the ArA after you finish your first warm up set (in the gym).

 

[Jiigzz]

If it's killing your workout it's overkill. Workout>supplements. I would eat 2-3 hours before then take the ArA after you finish your first warm up set (in the gym).

This, definitely.

Get a small warm up going then pop the pills if your workouts are suffering because you aren't eating prior

 

[Urban Monk]

Does anyone know of any contraindications with Ubiquinol (coq10) or pqq with ARA?

 

[Jiigzz]

Does anyone know of any contraindications with Ubiquinol (coq10) or pqq with ARA?

Just dose them separate. Otherwise, no big deal using both

 

[mbonheur]

What about Evening Primrose Oil?

 

[Darkhorse192]

been out of the ARA loop / game for a "minute"

best ARA option out there?

XGels?

 

[Jiigzz]

been out of the ARA loop / game for a "minute"

best ARA option out there?

XGels?

Xgels is solid, but so is anything that yields 250mg of active per cap (note that this is not just 250mg of Ara oil, but actually 250mg ARA)

 

[Jiigzz]

What about Evening Primrose Oil?

Dose away from Ara as much as possible

 

[mbonheur]

Dose away from Ara as much as possible

Thank you

 

[wesb2387]

So help me out guys...

First time using xgels, started this past Saturday. Dosing with 6g GMS and 2g LCLT about 45 minutes preworkout fasted first thing in the morning. No fish oils throughout the day.

I won’t lie, I haven’t noticed much. I feel like I get better pumps from a scoop of whey preworkout then this. Does it take a week or two to build up in my system or am I just doing something wrong?

I’ve dosed from 1g-2g and no real difference also.

 

[bb333]

So help me out guys...

First time using xgels, started this past Saturday. Dosing with 6g GMS and 2g LCLT about 45 minutes preworkout fasted first thing in the morning. No fish oils throughout the day.

I won’t lie, I haven’t noticed much. I feel like I get better pumps from a scoop of whey preworkout then this. Does it take a week or two to build up in my system or am I just doing something wrong?

I’ve dosed from 1g-2g and no real difference also.

Have faith! Keep it up.

 

[Jiigzz]

So help me out guys...

First time using xgels, started this past Saturday. Dosing with 6g GMS and 2g LCLT about 45 minutes preworkout fasted first thing in the morning. No fish oils throughout the day.

I won’t lie, I haven’t noticed much. I feel like I get better pumps from a scoop of whey preworkout then this. Does it take a week or two to build up in my system or am I just doing something wrong?

I’ve dosed from 1g-2g and no real difference also.

Definitely need longer to notice much from it. Give it about 2 weeks or so, then report back

 

[john.patterson]

I'm sure this was asked somewhere at some point, but how long is the recommended time off ArA? I recently finished up a 50 day cycle and I'm looking to run X-Gels again. Joints definitely feel a little sore so I want to give it a few weeks, but what is the recommended "cycle off" time? Give it 4 weeks?

 

[Swindler]

should ArA even be dosed on non training days..

 

[Jiigzz]

I'm sure this was asked somewhere at some point, but how long is the recommended time off ArA? I recently finished up a 50 day cycle and I'm looking to run X-Gels again. Joints definitely feel a little sore so I want to give it a few weeks, but what is the recommended "cycle off" time? Give it 4 weeks?

Yeah 4 weeks would be plenty of time off between runs!

 

[Jiigzz]

should ArA even be dosed on non training days..

It can be, but isn't needed

 

[bb333]

ARA can make insulin sensitivity worse?

 

[warbird01]

ARA can make insulin sensitivity worse?

I've never heard of it doing that.