The Arachidonic Acid Help Guide

[sns8778]

Just started X-Gels for the first time and then found this thread. So, my Pre had consisted of 8g Citrulline Malate, 2g L-Carnitine Tartrate, 600mg VAS06 as a base ... currently taking Mitoburn & Recomp20, as well. I had been taking it with like 20g of carbs (for Carnitine). I am planning on adding the X-Gels at the same time, but then I found this thread with taking them fasted.

So, should I just ditch the carbs while taking X-Gels? I'm more interested in the possible androgen receptor effect of Carnitine than anything.

When I've used X-Gels, I personally did not take them fasted. I've taken them with and without carbs pre-workout.

I think that just as some people find that fasting helps them and others find that pre-workout carbs helps them, it is likely that some may find that taking X-Gels fasted may help but for others it may not make a difference.

Basically, I don't think there's a concrete answer as to what's going to work best for everyone. Just my opinion.

 

[aaronuconn]

When I've used X-Gels, I personally did not take them fasted. I've taken them with and without carbs pre-workout.

I think that just as some people find that fasting helps them and others find that pre-workout carbs helps them, it is likely that some may find that taking X-Gels fasted may help but for others it may not make a difference.

Basically, I don't think there's a concrete answer as to what's going to work best for everyone. Just my opinion.

Yep. For me, I’d avoid with carbs, but that doesn’t mean I’m necessarily correct. Just from my own research, that’s what I decided to do

 

[JohnnieFreeze]

But why the headaches? I remember when I took it before I had flare ups in my lower back pain and got tendonitis in my forearms

I tried X-Factor once 20 years ago and had to stop after just a few days due to MASSIVE headaches. Drinking extra water helped a little but since I'm prone to headaches as it is, it didn't help enough. Although I didn't take long enough to see if joints and connective tissue would be affected, my assumption was, if it hurts my head, it'll hurt my joints.

As a side note, Predator Nutrition has an interesting write up on X-Gels stating it can be taken as long as 16 weeks.

 

[aaronuconn]

I tried X-Factor once 20 years ago and had to stop after just a few days due to MASSIVE headaches. Drinking extra water helped a little but since I'm prone to headaches as it is, it didn't help enough. Although I didn't take long enough to see if joints and connective tissue would be affected, my assumption was, if it hurts my head, it'll hurt my joints.

As a side note, Predator Nutrition has an interesting write up on X-Gels stating it can be taken as long as 16 weeks.

I think the most I ever did was 2 bottles at 1.5g pre-workout only (training ~5x a week)

 

[Madevilz]

New study on ARA

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15502783.2022.2164209?src=

 

[chainsaw]

New study on ARA

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15502783.2022.2164209?src=

"thus revealing potential deleterious effects of AA on human skeletal muscle cell health and viability."

Can anyone explain this study. Conclusion said it causes damage to muscle cell health?

 

[Jeremyk1]

"thus revealing potential deleterious effects of AA on human skeletal muscle cell health and viability."

Can anyone explain this study. Conclusion said it causes damage to muscle cell health?

From a first glance, it’s not that bad.

“We found that high concentrations of AA (50 µM and 25 µM) reduced myoblast viability by 85% and 32%, respectively (p < 0.001) (Figure 2A) and increased the number of dead cells (Figure 2B). On the other hand, low concentrations (12.5–1.56 µM AA) caused increased myoblast proliferation (p < 0.001) (Figure 2).”

Using too much caused excess inflammation which was bad. Using lower concentrations was not bad. The cell viability actually looks slightly higher in some of the low dose groups in one of the charts in that study.

 

[Irishobrien]

"thus revealing potential deleterious effects of AA on human skeletal muscle cell health and viability."

Can anyone explain this study. Conclusion said it causes damage to muscle cell health?

the authors:

“However, our findings that supraphysiological doses of AA are detrimental to skeletal muscle are not parallel to any study in humans.”

this is a “test tube” study of human skeletal muscle cell *myogenesis tested against ArA. The doses were purposely supraphysiological to increase the “signal to noise” ratio. The results, even at low (applied quantifier; not supplemented) doses were the reverse of those seen when tested against mouse and bovine skeletal muscle.

take always:
1) the concentration of ArA that reaches skeletal muscle after supplementation is completely unknown

“…since it is unknown what this translates to in current human papers but covers a broad spectrum of doses.”

2) adult myogenesis certainly occurs in adults but is of much lesser importance then late embryonic development

3) the study results were the opposite of what was anticipated and ha not been replicated. The methods the authors used were also different then previous authors

“It is unclear whether our results are due to the unique experimental conditions and cell lines used compared to others.”

4) study reinforced the need to stay away from COX2 inhibitors

“these data and our recent findings indicating a COX-2 inhibitor (i.e. celecoxib), but not a COX-1 inhibitor (NS-398), is detrimental to skeletal muscle cells are the rationale for not testing a COX-1 inhibitor in tandem with AA”

anyway, the new research on the SM hypertrophic mechanisms of ArA appear to be largely mediated through its downstream, LOX derived, products, rather than prostaglandins

 

[aaronuconn]

Nothing meaningful to add on top of irishobrien, but, hoping we see more research on ArA from Brandon Roberts and the people he frequently collaborates with. We’ve probably all come along his research before. He was on that systematic review showing no significant effects from HMB, nutritional recs for physique athletes w/Helms & Trexler, metabolic adaptations to weight loss… he’s done a lot for moving sports/exercise science forward

 

[SuppDude84]

I have been out of the game for a while and used to just lurk. I've noticed there haven't been any threads on ArA the last few years after a quick search. I just bought some X gels and was wondering what the latest dosing scheme and recommended stacking was? I remember back in the day people talking about maybe stacking it with GMS and baby aspirin? 'preciate any help! (I tried to post this as a new thread but can't for some reason. Maybe because my new account)

 

[chainsaw]

I have been out of the game for a while and used to just lurk. I've noticed there haven't been any threads on ArA the last few years after a quick search. I just bought some X gels and was wondering what the latest dosing scheme and recommended stacking was? I remember back in the day people talking about maybe stacking it with GMS and baby aspirin? 'preciate any help! (I tried to post this as a new thread but can't for some reason. Maybe because my new account)

I still take baby asprin with it. 6 caps a day. Most preworkouts have gms in it. Also I take PA with it. But I don't think any of those make or break it. Maybe it's just minutia.

 

[sns8778]

I have been out of the game for a while and used to just lurk. I've noticed there haven't been any threads on ArA the last few years after a quick search. I just bought some X gels and was wondering what the latest dosing scheme and recommended stacking was? I remember back in the day people talking about maybe stacking it with GMS and baby aspirin? 'preciate any help! (I tried to post this as a new thread but can't for some reason. Maybe because my new account)

I take a baby aspirin everyday for health purposes, but not having anything to do with ARA.

A very common stack now days is X-Gels and Phosphatidic Acid XT, as they go great together.

GMS (Glycerol Monostearate) you rarely ever see available anymore because better options have come along that have a higher % of glycerol and don't cause the stomach upset that some people got from GMS.

We offer GlycerPump capsules as a convenient option and in the write up, it goes into a bit of a comparison percentage wise to GMS with some other details, but a simple comparison is:

• GlycerPump is 65% glycerol
• GMS is between 10% and 25% glycerol
• Mg. of glycerol per 1 gram:
  • 100 to 250 mg. from GMS
  • 650 mg. from GlycerPump

So, 4 capsules of GlycerPump would give you 2,000 mg. GlycerPump for 1,300 mg. actual Glycerol - which you would have to use 6 to 12 grams of old school GMS to get.

Plus, GlycerPump is cheap so its really win win if looking for a glycerol source to stack with X-Gels.

GlycerPump - 120 caps | Serious Nutrition Solutions

GlycerPump is a branded form of Glycerol that supports improvements in lean muscle, strength, endurance, muscle fullness, pumps, & hydration! Convenient capsule form.

seriousnutritionsolutions.com

 

[Urban Monk]

So - todays best protocols are basically 30-45 min pre workout:

1. X-gels
2. PA
3. Carnitine
4. Glycerol


Optional: Forskolin, epicatechin, anything else I’m missing?

 

[mechka_grizli]

So - todays best protocols are basically 30-45 min pre workout:

1. X-gels
2. PA
3. Carnitine
4. Glycerol


Optional: Forskolin, epicatechin, anything else I’m missing?

People call it the best protocol but at the end of the day, the study at the University of Tampa didn’t include any of that stuff.

Everything above is optional, not needed nor necessary for ARA to be effective.

 

[sns8778]

So - todays best protocols are basically 30-45 min pre workout:

1. X-gels
2. PA
3. Carnitine
4. Glycerol

Optional: Forskolin, epicatechin, anything else I’m missing?

I think it really depends on what someone considers the best.

I think it definitely stacks well with Phosphatidic Acid XT and GlycerPump.

I think that Forskolin XT and Epi-Plex stack great with almost anything.

We very commonly see X-Gels stacked with the following:

• Anabolic XT
• Anabolic Effect
• Phosphatidic Acid XT
• Pepti-Plex
• Recomp20
• Anacyclus XT
• Ecdy-Plex
• Prime XT (just released so we haven't seen it done yet, but a lot of people are talking about it)

We are also releasing something new in the next 6 to 8 weeks that method of action wise, should be phenomenal with it - from a complimentary method of action standpoint.