Stuff is really heating up in the mideast...

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fbxdan

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Democracy is a system of government. The concept of democracy has nothing to do with religious or social restrictions or norms.
Yes you are right. Israel's "democracy" is not something I would like to support however. In fact if you want get down to it, Israel has many socialist leanings in its government. There is not free speech in Israel either.
 

jrkarp

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Many of our allies have strong socialist leanings and greater restrictions on freedom of speech.

See: Britain, France, etc.

We're actully quite unique in how liberal our society is (and I'm not saying politically liberal, as in Ted Kennedy). Hell, during the World Cup, there were several articles about how black players are treated in Europe, about how they have bananas thrown at them and all kinds of slurs shouted at them - the kinds of things we haven't seen much of in this country since the South in the 1960's. And this is happening in countries like France that consider themselves more enlightened than us.

The bottom line to me is that Israel, for all of its faults, has a popularly elected government. While there are marked differences, their system is not completely unlike our own, and they are an important ally in a very important part of the world where we are not well liked.
 

BioHazzard

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Israel it not a democracy. I think now you have to do your research. What democracies make it illegal for people of two different religions to marry? As for the statement Al Qaeda has a plan to world conquest at any means... This is true, and if given the chance they'd behead me for being an American. I have no sympathy for the islamic religion either. So if you have me pegged as a liberal you are completely and utterly wrong. I can continue arguing with you but it will accomplish nothing. Your and my views are completely different on this subject. I can see the faults of both sides, and you can only see the Israeli side.
No. I don't think of you as a liberal. It is just quite obvious that you are not well informed on the details. You lump a lot of things together and draw the wrong conclusion and implication, and derived the wrong lessons from them. I am just trying to help you here. But if you think you know enough already, then ok. Fine by me.
 

BioHazzard

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Many of our allies have strong socialist leanings and greater restrictions on freedom of speech.

See: Britain, France, etc.

We're actully quite unique in how liberal our society is (and I'm not saying politically liberal, as in Ted Kennedy). Hell, during the World Cup, there were several articles about how black players are treated in Europe, about how they have bananas thrown at them and all kinds of slurs shouted at them - the kinds of things we haven't seen much of in this country since the South in the 1960's. And this is happening in countries like France that consider themselves more enlightened than us.

The bottom line to me is that Israel, for all of its faults, has a popularly elected government. While there are marked differences, their system is not completely unlike our own, and they are an important ally in a very important part of the world where we are not well liked.
In many countries over there, if you deny the Holocaust, they can and will throw you in jail. So much for free speech.

I guess those democracies should be condemned too....
 
fbxdan

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In many countries over there, if you deny the Holocaust, they can and will throw you in jail. So much for free speech.

I guess those democracies should be condemned too....
Actually, yes they should be condemned. Free speech is free speech. There is no iffs, ands or butts. I truly believe in free speech. If someone wants to "deny the holocaust" they shouldn't be jailed for 5 years. That is what we call a thought crime, plain and simple. It is the most orwellian of all crimes.
 

BioHazzard

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Well I think it is BS too. But guess what? We are not breaking off diplomatic relationship with those European countries anytime soon.
 

delta314

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An American flag flew high over the ship for everyone to see when it was attacked. How is that friendly fire? Former Secretary of state Dean Rusk, and almost every senior member in American intelligence agree it was not an accident. Israel stated they attacked us because they mistook us for the egyptian "el quseir ship". However, the ship was in internationl waters away from fighting and flew a huge, bright new American flag. How can that be an accident?

I respect that both you kwyckemynd00 have done your research. But, my question to you (which i ask in all earnesty). Is why should America support Israel?
Why should America support America? If you've been in the US military during times of war, you'd know how many Americans have been killed by Americans....things look differrent when you're in a combat situation. You don't always see the flags or the colors when you're scared ****less. I'm not trying to give excuses, just a different view brother. You know how it feels when you're squating heavy for reps...your a**hole is tight and your legs are shakin...and you're just thinking let me get one more rep. Well, let me tell you, it aint SH*t compared to being somewhere where the lead is flyin and everybodys screamin and all you can think about is maybe seeing your wife or kid or any damn body again. I don't think Israel has ever "targeted" civilians or children. That can't be said for the Muslim terrorists they are fighting. Just my 02 cents...
 
RenegadeRows

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(Reminded of the end of Independance Day where Jews and Muslims are fighting alongside eachother, verses the aliens...BV may be onto something...)
 
fbxdan

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Why should America support America? If you've been in the US military during times of war, you'd know how many Americans have been killed by Americans....things look differrent when you're in a combat situation. You don't always see the flags or the colors when you're scared ****less. I'm not trying to give excuses, just a different view brother. You know how it feels when you're squating heavy for reps...your a**hole is tight and your legs are shakin...and you're just thinking let me get one more rep. Well, let me tell you, it aint SH*t compared to being somewhere where the lead is flyin and everybodys screamin and all you can think about is maybe seeing your wife or kid or any damn body again. I don't think Israel has ever "targeted" civilians or children. That can't be said for the Muslim terrorists they are fighting. Just my 02 cents...
That is a good analogy. I don't know what its like to be in a combat situation like that, but I could imagine it is hell on earth. And you have my upmost respect for putting your balls to the wall and being in those situations. And I can imagine it is hard to see flags in the heat of the moment. I just think that whenever an American ship or soldier is attacked by one of our "allies" we should get all of the story without a doubt. It is just very hard for me to trust Israel when we have found their spies in the pentagon. The AIPAC is very powerfull in Washington and I worry that their interests can interfere with our own. Thats just my opinion I guess. And I can see exactly where you are coming from also.
 
fbxdan

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(Reminded of the end of Independance Day where Jews and Muslims are fighting alongside eachother, verses the aliens...BV may be onto something...)
The funny thing was I was just thinking about that yesterday. lol
 

delta314

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That is a good analogy. I don't know what its like to be in a combat situation like that, but I could imagine it is hell on earth. And you have my upmost respect for putting your balls to the wall and being in those situations. And I can imagine it is hard to see flags in the heat of the moment. I just think that whenever an American ship or soldier is attacked by one of our "allies" we should get all of the story without a doubt. It is just very hard for me to trust Israel when we have found their spies in the pentagon. The AIPAC is very powerfull in Washington and I worry that their interests can interfere with our own. Thats just my opinion I guess. And I can see exactly where you are coming from also.
I just want you to know I agree with you. Everybody has a right to believe and say what they feel. Sometimes you have to look through somebody elses eyes to see another view. Killing somebody is a something everybody thinks is easy and manly and you just do what you got to do. Its not easy, or manly, or any of that. Sometimes it is what you have to do to keep yourself our someone else alive. And sometimes when you have t do it, you get sick and you puke and you cry and you'll wonder if you'll ever get over it. And 20 years later you might still wake up and cry and think about it. Or maybe you won't. I hear guys tell all kinds of stories. Maybe I'm just a p***y. Or maybe they are a bunch of fuc**n liars....
 

delta314

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BTW fbxdan, you have a hell of a back in that picture bro. I wish I'd have started BB when I was your age. It gets tougher when you're older than dirt!
 
fbxdan

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BTW fbxdan, you have a hell of a back in that picture bro. I wish I'd have started BB when I was your age. It gets tougher when you're older than dirt!
Thanks bro. Thats not the best pic of my back though. I've put on some width and thickness since then :)
 
kwyckemynd00

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Thanks bro. Thats not the best pic of my back though. I've put on some width and thickness since then :)
:eek:
That's nuts man. You've gotta give us some stats and lifts...there aren't many 19yr olds as big as you around.
 
mp5man1

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I just want you to know I agree with you. Everybody has a right to believe and say what they feel. Sometimes you have to look through somebody elses eyes to see another view. Killing somebody is a something everybody thinks is easy and manly and you just do what you got to do. Its not easy, or manly, or any of that. Sometimes it is what you have to do to keep yourself our someone else alive. And sometimes when you have t do it, you get sick and you puke and you cry and you'll wonder if you'll ever get over it. And 20 years later you might still wake up and cry and think about it. Or maybe you won't. I hear guys tell all kinds of stories. Maybe I'm just a p***y. Or maybe they are a bunch of fuc**n liars....
What you just said is true. It’s not something to be bragged about or thought of as something cool you did at work. I think you and I are in the same line of work. I will say that living with something like that becomes easier with time but it never leaves you. I have some experience in this area if you want to PM me we can talk.
 

BioHazzard

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Empty threat of the year....

1. Lebanese Army threatened to fight IF the IDF invaded... :D That would be like the mosquitos in the Florida swamp threatening to halt the Space Shuttle launch. Besides, the Lebanese Army is more interested in fighting Hizballah.

2. Syrian military threatened to fight IF the IDF got near the Syrian/Lebanese border...:D Well, the IDF has been blasting around the border AND over the border into Syria. lol The last we heard was the Syrian pilots were sitting in the c@ckpits already... SO? What are they waiting for? :D Could it be they were wondering if they could do better than the last time they got into a fight with the IDF airforce? lol
 

BioHazzard

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In response to Iranian re-supplies to Hizballah via airlift to Syria, a US arms airlift began running to Israel Saturday.

Iranian opened an air corridor on July 19, landing supplies at Syria’s Abu Ad Duhur military airfield north of Homs. "..The deliveries for Hizballah include large quantities of new missiles, including the long-range Zelzal and Fajr 3 and Fajr 5 missiles, Katyusha rockets, anti-tank and anti-air missiles sent out from the RG HQ in Bandar Abbas on the Persian Gulf..

On July 21, Iran’s Revolutionary Guards commander Brig.-Gen Yahya Rahim Safavi assumed command of the Lebanon war from Hizballah’s leader Hassan Nasrallah......"

In response, the US is rushing delivery of precision-guided bombs, and other military supplies. This isn't an emergency resupply, but rather the expediting of previously ordered and requested orders.
 
kwyckemynd00

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On July 21, Iran’s Revolutionary Guards commander Brig.-Gen Yahya Rahim Safavi assumed command of the Lebanon war from Hizballah’s leader Hassan Nasrallah......"
can you like me to this? this is definitely interesting.
 

BioHazzard

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delta314

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What you just said is true. It’s not something to be bragged about or thought of as something cool you did at work. I think you and I are in the same line of work. I will say that living with something like that becomes easier with time but it never leaves you. I have some experience in this area if you want to PM me we can talk.
e-mail me bro. [email protected]
 

oswizzle

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If ya dont know...now u do

A small group of Lebanese militants, the Hezbollah, kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers in the hopes that they could use them to arrange an exchange with the Israeli government for at least some of the 2,000+ prisoners Israel has from Lebanon. Instead of entertaining exchange discussions, Israel retaliated with MASSIVE bombing over the entire southern region of Lebanon, where Hezbollah retains military control. Hezbollah, of course, then retaliated, sending bombs back to Israel, and the two have been embroiled in bitter war ever since. Israel is now amassing troops, tanks, etc. along their northern border and have, in small numbers, already begun small ground operations in Lebanon. The Lebanese government and it's military, though small, has promised that should Israel invade Lebanon, they will join with Hezbollah to protect their country.

Our government, via Tony Snow, the new media persona at the White House, said 2 days ago that "this isn't a war." Tell that to all of the Israeli and Lebanese refugees that have had to leave their homes for fear of their lives or those that have dies. Tell that to the Israeli newspapers, who, the day after the first bombings, declared war against Lebanon in it's newspaper headlines.

Now, what bothers me a bit about American coverage of these actions is the constant referrence to Hezbollah as a "terrorist organization" much the same as Al Queda, when in fact Hezbollah is nothing like Al Queda. They do not attack Israel due to just massively distorted fanatic religious beliefs. There are almost three decades of history between Israel and Hezbollah that most news agencies just seem to be glossing over.

This isn't the first time the two countries have been embroiled in war. Back in 1982, Israel invaded southern Lebanon. The Hezbollah was formed at that time to help combat the Israeli army, who despite continuously being labeled as the victim, has been actively trying to increase it's country's size and has been battling every neighbor around it since it's founding. So after Israel invaded Lebanon, Hezbollah was formed and it took them and the Lebanese military until 2000 to drive Israel out of it's country, and there have been constant actions from both sides since then. It's not like either side is completely innocent in this. Try warring with a country for 18 years and then expect everything to be nice and peaceful? Right..... Now Hezbollah is largely funded and armed by Syria and Iran, who of course, are on America's "axis of evil." But they are not an independent terrorist organization, they are a resistance army, and have been successful thus far in keeping Israel out of Lebanon up to this point. They are completely outmatched in manpower, equipment, and technology when up against Israel, but despite everything against them, their drive and determination, and knowledge of their own terrain, brought them success in defeating Israel and pushing them back out of their country. Israel invading Lebanon again is akin to the US re-invading Vietnam.

INTERESTING NOTE THEY WON'T TELL YOU ON THE NEWS:
The current state of Israel was founded in 1947. The ROTHSCHILDS, an international banking family, who claim to be jewish, funded it's founding and have funded most of the infrastructure to build Israel up to the advanced country it is today. Did you know that the US gives nearly $30 Billion to Israel every year? (just coincidentally about the same amount we cut from all non-military spending in our budget this year- benefits being taken from Americans) Do you know why the US states that Israel is our ally no matter what? Our government states that they are our ally simply because they are a democracy. Things are never what they seem, or what they tell you. The Rothschilds, who founded Israel and continue to back them, are also the LARGEST shareholders in the US's "un"Federal Reserve. Our Federal Reserve is a private entity that prints our money. Our government prepares a bond that they give to the Federal Reserve when they need money, promising to pay the money back, WITH INTEREST, back to the Federal Reserve. Every dollar you see is issued this way, under a debt-money system. Almost 20 percent of our federal budget annually pays the interest on our ever-growing national debt, over 8 trillion now.... That interest is paid to the Federal Reserve, who, in turn, distribute the profits to the shareholders of the Federal Reserve, 70 percent of which are foreign!

Did you think maybe our government backs Israel because over 80 percent of our nation is Christian, and the Bible says that we must support Israel? You would be wrong..... The Bible says that GOD will reinstate the nation of Israel when he returns to Earth. It does not state that Israel will be re-created when an international banker creates the state. Do you remember the ONLY time Jesus became violent in his life? This was when he overturned the tables in the marketplace in protest of the "moneylenders" or bankers because he did not agree with their debt-money system. He stated that money should never be given to your fellow man and expected to be repaid with interest. Thus, I have to dispute the Christian's claim (and I am a Christian, but perhaps I am the only one that has read my Bible?) that the current nation of Israel are the "chosen people." Yet, churches across America are preaching this to the sheep-herded masses. Every dollar bill we have, since 1957, has been printed with "In God We Trust" on it. However, since the formation of our Federal Reserve in 1913, every dollar printed has been a crime against God, because it is issued under a debt-money system.

This debt-money system perpetrated by our "un"Federal Reserve keeps America enslaved to the Rothschilds and other international bankers whims and demands. Major monetarists, including the current Federal Reserve chairman, Ben Bernanke, advocate that the Federal Reserve caused the last Great Depression of 1929 to happen, by decreasing the amount of money in circulation. Please understand that the Federal Reserve has the power to do this again at any time. They did it last time because the US did not want to enter into World War II. The Great Depression showed them that they did not have a choice in the matter. Money is power after all... and to control a nation's money is to control it's policies. Mayer Rothschild once said "If I control a nation's money, I care not who writes it's laws." Now the problem with much of the World today is that the Rothschilds and their cabal of international bankers now control the vast majority of ALL central banks in countries around the World.

Question: In 2001, which 8 countries did not have a Rothschild-controlled central bank?
Answer: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Iran, Syria, Sudan, Cuba, and North Korea.
Question: Who's left now?
Answer: Well, strike Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya off that list...they've either been conquered or bent over (Muammar), so now it's just Iran, North Korea, Syria, Cuba, Sudan.
Hmmmmmm...so that's what they mean by the "Axis of Evil."



You know what else I find amazing? The fact that Anderson Cooper has no problem going anywhere in Lebanon, even into Hezbollah territory to get a great story, and yet he has NEVER gone into Iraq (you know~ that silent war America is fighting every day)!

So why is the media and the likes of Newt Gingrich saying this is the beginning of World War III? Are they just conditioning us to what the international bankers have already determined is our future? The mainstream US media is owned by only 6 corporations, so most info fed through them is filtered by the higher ups. But let me lay out a likely scenario for you, so we can understand how truly close to World War III we may be....

Here is a map of the region:

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Now right now the conflicts in the region are as follows:
Israel/Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon
Israel/Palestine in the Gaza Strip
US in Iraq

Should Israel decide to invade Lebanon, the small Lebanese military will join Hezbollah in the fighting to protect their southern border. Should Israel accidentally or otherwise drop a single bomb on Syria, Lebanon's neighbor, Syria will become involved, and Iran has promised that if Syria is attacked by Israel, they will get involved. Should Syria and/or Iran enter the conflict, Israel, with a history of being unsuccessful in that region, will request the US's assistance and we will come running to their side. Should we enter the conflict, one can almost guarantee Iran will take this as a supreme threat over the entire region, and will bomb the oil fields of Iraq, Kuwait, Suadi Arabia, and will also possibly bomb our places in Afghanistan. Iran has long-reaching missiles and a battle-hardened LARGE standing military. Should they bomb the oil fields now protected by the US, we will likely see the rise of oil prices to some ungodly sum, like $1,000/barrel!!! Our economy is completely fragile right now and I do believe this would send us spiraling down into a fullscale crash, which would mean hard times for the US. It would mean, however, just as with the depression, higher enlistments in the US military....

This will mean the entire Middle Eastern region would be in all out full-scale conflict. This would mean Lebanon, Hezbollah, Iraqi insurgents, Al Queda, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Palestinians from Jordan, Pakistani radicals, all joining forces against the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia in the region. My guess is that Europe will largely sit on the sidelines, while Britain will lend small forces to the US's aid. The big question is how Russia and China will enter into said conflict. Both countries have large interests in the area and how they play may well determine how the US comes out in the end.

What worries me so much is that should the US become embroiled in this WWIII, besides the prospect of another depression, we definetly will not have seen the end of terrorist attacks in America. The radicals in the Middle Eastern region already hate us...and this would provide massive fuel to their already raging fires of contempt. Should the fall of our economy result in US riots, or in the event of another major terrorist attack, there are Executive Orders issued by the President in place that would allow him to take over ALL of the infrastructure of the United States, creating a police state where we are essentially in a fascist dictatorship, completing the trend we have been following for the last half a century. This would mean the complete end of FREEDOM in America......

And what is so scary is that all of this could happen and escalate so quickly, that this could all happen in a month or two month's time.......yet most of America is obliviously sitting on the sidelines with no idea nor any desire to know what is happening. The US conditioning system has worked so well......



Some beautiful quotes:

I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
~Helen Keller

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
~Dwight D. Eisenhower

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.
~Matthew 5:3

Do you want long life and happiness? Strive for peace with all your heart.
~Psalm 34:12,14

I don't do great things. I do small things with great love.
~Mother Teresa

The soul of our country needs to be awakened . . .When leaders act contrary to conscience, we must act contrary to leaders.
~Veterans Fast For Life

In 1989, thirteen nations comprising 1,695,000 people experienced nonviolent revolutions that succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations . . . If we add all the countries touched by major nonviolent actions in our century (the Philippines, South Africa . . . the independence movement in India . . .) the figure reaches 3,337,400,000, a staggering 65% of humanity! All this in the teeth of the assertion, endlessly repeated, that nonviolence doesn't work in the 'real' world.
~Walter Wink

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it's the only thing that ever has.
~Margaret Mead
 

BioHazzard

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I don't know where he got it from but it sure sounds credible. It has convinced me to buy stocks in the Federal Reserve. :lol: I am raking it in, babe!!

Oh yeah.. I think I am going to knock up one of those Rothschilds babes. He has enlightened me that I can marry money and control the world!! Watch out Batman!! There is a new Joker in town!! :bruce1:
 

BioHazzard

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Back to reality.....

Print

Opening a window on intelligence
By Yossi Melman

"...There was a personal reason for the excitement that grabbed the chief of Military Intelligence, General Amos Yadlin, last Wednesday, too. He was attending a family celebration in the center the country. But far away, in souther Beirut, another event was going on, in which Yadlin had a particular reason to take an interest. At exactly the same time, Israeli Air Force fighter jets were dropping 23 tons of explosives on the Hezbollah's so-called alternative bunker. Hidden under an innocent-looking mosque, the bunker had been built by Iranian engineers who specialized in the construction of protected subterranean building for their country's nuclear facilities.

Five days have passed since the bombing and its results are not yet known. Hezbollah, as part of the psychological warfare it is waging against Israel, has not made its losses public. Members of the movement's field security unit are carefully guarding the area around the damaged bunker, along with other important sites belonging to the organization, and preventing strangers from approaching.

Israel, which decided very late in the game to respond with psychological warfare, has also refrained from releasing any information on the incident - although the chief of staff did hint at a press conference on Friday night that Israel knows the identities of some of those killed in the bombing, but prefers that Hezbollah will publicize their names. In this way, Israel is letting Hezbollah grope in the dark with respect to what Israel actually knows and its intelligence capabilities.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz authorized the attack, based on intelligence assessments that Hezbollah leaders including Hassan Nasrallah and his deputy Imad Mughniyah - a well-known terrorist wanted by the Mossad, the CIA and in fact just about every Western intelligence agency, who is considered to be Hezbollah's "chief of staff" were supposed to be in the bunker. The aim of the attack was also to hit Mughniyah's deputy, Talal Hamia, and other commanders.

Nasrallah was not harmed in the attack because he wasn't in the bunker at the time, but it is possible that other members of the organization's leadership were wounded.

Connecting to the target

The bombing and lack of clarity surrounding the results of this incident open a window, albeit a very narrow one, on a hidden element of the war: the part played in it by Israel's intelligence. And it is not an inconsiderable element. This intelligence is what makes it possible to connect the bomber jet with its target.

The Mossad can take credit for a number of operational units involved in locating, recruiting and running agents. In Israel Defense Forces' Military Intelligence, the credit goes to the terrorism experts in its Research Division, to Unit 504 - which is involved in running agents and also in offensive intelligence operations in southern Lebanon - and, to a certain extent, to SIGINT (signals intelligence) Unit 8200.

What are Israel's intelligence achievements? Some information about this was intimated by the previous chief of staff, Moshe Ya'alon, who is currently in the United States. At a lecture he gave in Washington, he said: "Hezbollah has built special rooms inside ordinary residential buildings used to launch rockets, but they didn't know that we know that, and were surprised."

For years, and while carefully maintaining strict compartmentalization, Hezbollah built up a dense system of "secret houses," in which rockets and missiles aimed at numerous Israeli targets were hidden. About a year ago, Nasrallah boasted that he would "set northern Palestine ablaze." Israel's north is indeed being hit very hard by Katyusha rockets and missiles, so far more than 2,000 have been fired, but it is not burning. As of yesterday, only 5 percent of the rockets and missiles fired hit precise targets, causing the deaths of around 20 people and damage to dozens of buildings.

The hidden missiles, especially the long-range Zelzal ones, were the Hezbollah's strategic weapons. This capability has been severely undermined. The IAF - equipped with precise information that has been gathered, examined and meticulously prepared by intelligence experts - knows exactly where many of these concealed storerooms are and has destroyed them. Contributing to this is AIF intelligence, which knows very well how to translate the material gathered by the Mossad and Unit 504, and processed by terrorism experts in the MI Research Division, in order to turn the resulting data into targets for attack.

According to various estimates, about 40 percent of the missiles and rockets belonging to the Hezbollah have already been hit. The firepower remaining in its hands should not be taken lightly: It can still launch rockets and missiles and in large numbers. Nor is there any doubt that Nasrallah will try to make wise use of his residual capability; he may be saving up part of it for a dramatic finale. However, the accomplishments of Israeli intelligence in undermining his missile and rocket capability are indeed noteworthy. They are mainly thanks to the work of HUMINT - human intelligence - based on locating, recruiting and running agents. This is also the specialty of the Mossad and of Unit 504, whose most important contribution has been on the tactical level near the border.

Unit 8200 has also contributed its part to attaining an intelligence picture of Hezbollah, but its members, who were aware that they were being listened to, carefully maintained communications security by means of their field security and espionage services. These members, especially the military command, spoke on the telephone as little as possible. They preferred to send their orders and instructions by means of couriers and held their meetings in rooms impenetrable to listening devices that were especially built in Hezbollah's "security square" in Dahiya. This command post also featured communications centers, as well as Hezbollah's command and control.

Disruption of function

The destruction of that compound contributed a great deal to the disruption of the organization's ability to function, but Hezbollah prepared for this eventuality as well. The field commanders received instructions to act according to their own discretion in the absence of clear command orders or an attack on their communications and computer systems.

Intelligence coverage made it possible for the Mossad to preclude the implementation of Hezbollah's future plans; the agency even prevented the movement's international apparatus from repeating the success of the bombing of the Israeli embassy in Argentina in 1992, and two years later, of the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires.

Guided by Iranian intelligence, Hezbollah set up over a number of years a system of sleeper cells in Europe, South America and Southeast Asia, with the intention of - waking them up - when the time came. This just may be that time, and preparations should be made for the possibility that the organization will try to use the cells to take revenge. But the decision concerning that scenario is not in Nasrallah's hands, rather in the hands of the Iranian leadership.

In 1992, Fuad Mughniyah, brother of Imad Mughniyah, was murdered in south Beirut by a car bomb. So far, media assessments have taken the view that Imad was the real target of the bomb - that he was supposed to be visiting his brother, but was late for the meeting. Now, however, based on an analysis of the incident as it was reported in the foreign media, it may be concluded that the target was in fact Fuad Mughniyah himself, who was a junior partner to his brother's terror activities. In that year, thanks to precise intelligence, Israel used missiles fired from helicopters to kill Abbas Musawi, the secretary general of Hezbollah. Since then, a number of mid-level Hezbollah commanders have been killed in operations that the Lebanese media has attributed to Israeli intelligence. A few months ago, a network that was involved in the assassination of Raleb Awali, a Palestinian active in Hezbollah, was apprehended.

It is clear that the chief target, Nasrallah, is still alive today, and so apparently is Imad Mughniyah. From this standpoint, the situation can be described as a failure. An additional colossal intelligence failure concerns the recent missile attack on the Israeli naval destroyer. Navy intelligence knew and was familiar with the Iranian missile that hit the ship, and it should have been assumed that the Hezbollah possessed it.

The problem of intelligence capabilities intensifies further with the outbreak of war. When the intelligence that is gathered is realized, a great deal of what has been built up meticulously over years goes up in smoke. The "bank of targets" that has been prepared diminishes after the first wave of attacks. There is a tactical intelligence difficulty in pinpointing new targets during the fighting. Moreover, it is especially different to run agents: Communications with them, even if they are equipped with state-of-the-art devices, break down because of a lack of contact. Suspicions grow and the dangers posed to the agents increase. This is even more true for agents involved in the more basic aspects of intelligence operations.

Still, the information that has been gathered and stored during the years preceding the fighting form the basis for the IDF's operations of air and land capabilities, in addition to the activities of special forces on the enemy's home front, whose role, among other things, is to close the intelligence gaps - and especially to locate new missile and rocket launching sites created since the outbreak of the war. ..."
 

BioHazzard

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From the words of the UN humanitarian chief ...


UN official accuses Hezbollah of 'cowardly blending' among civilians - Haaretz - Israel News

Last update - 08:38 25/07/2006
UN official accuses Hezbollah of 'cowardly blending' among civilians
By The Associated Press

LARNACA, Cyprus - The UN humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah of "cowardly blending" among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel.

The militant group has built bunkers and tunnels near the Israeli border to shelter weapons and fighters, and its members easily blend in among civilians.

Jan Egeland spoke with reporters at the Larnaca airport in Cyprus late Monday after a visit to Lebanon on his mission to coordinate an international aid effort. On Sunday he had toured the rubble of Beirut's southern suburbs, a once-teeming Shiite district where Hezbollah had its headquarters.

During that visit he condemned the killing and wounding of civilians by both sides, and called Israel's offensive "disproportionate" and "a violation of international humanitarian law."

On Monday he had strong words for Hezbollah, which crossed into Israel and captured two Israel Defense Forces soldiers on July 12, triggering fierce fighting from both sides.

"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men.
"We need a cessation of hostilities because this is a war where civilians are paying the price," said Egeland, before flying to Israel.

At Ben-Gurion airport, Egeland told reporters he would negotiate over a corridor for humanitarian aid inside Lebanon. "I'm here to work on the humanitarian crisis," he said, noting he will also visit Nahariya, hit hard by Hezbollah rockets.

At least 600,000 Lebanese have fled their homes since Hezbollah abducted two IDF soldiers onJuly 12, according to the World Health Organization. One estimate by Lebanon's finance minister putting the number at 750,000, nearly 20 percent of the population.

Israel's death toll is at least 40, with 17 people killed by Hezbollah rockets and 23 soldiers killed in the fighting, authorities said.

During his visit to Lebanon, Egeland issued an urgent call for $150 million to help Lebanon through the next three months.

He said the first large UN convoy of humanitarian aid is expected to depart Beirut on Wednesday for the southern city of Tyre. Similar convoys will be scheduled every second day after that.
 

judge-mental

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Yes you are right. Israel's "democracy" is not something I would like to support however. In fact if you want get down to it, Israel has many socialist leanings in its government. There is not free speech in Israel either.

what is this bullcrap? no free speach... where did you get that?
Israel does not allow different religeons to marry?
I'm Israelly and my parents are of different religeons. where did you get this, genious?

The only think I can think of is that Israel doesn not allow west bank arabs to enter Israel under a cover of "marriage" to Israelly arabs - because such individuals performed and aided in suicide bombing. sorry for defending ourselves, I guess that makes us undemocratic.:blink:
 

judge-mental

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OSWizzle that is the worst crap of missquotes, lies and unbacked stupidity. you are just looking for evidence that confirm your view, like most people. shortsighted.

Delta, that was a great point on friendly fire, in fact we had 4 friendly fire deaths yesturday, and wehn I was in Lebanon myself back in 94-96 we had some nasty incidents, even without air force compounding that issue.
 
kwyckemynd00

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Don't bother talking to that guy, he's got the IQ of a tapeworm. OSwizzle can't contribute anything reasonable because he can't listen very well.

I mean, come on! Hezbollah...not a terrorist organization? LOL. 'nuff said. Just because they have a humanitarian wing so they can win seats in their government doesn't void them from terrorist status.
 

BioHazzard

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I think they qualify as war criminals. Using civilians as human shield. Firing from inside civilian midst. Firing anti personnel rockets into civilian centers.....
 
kwyckemynd00

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I think they qualify as war criminals. Using civilians as human shield. Firing from inside civilian midst. Firing anti personnel rockets into civilian centers.....
Noooo! Never! You can't be a war criminal unless you're from a privileged state, such as the US. Otherwise, its the privileged world's fault that you act the way you do...DUH!
 
kwyckemynd00

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> "A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all Americans who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you really need. Here we go.
>
> The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention.
>
> Before the Israelis won the land in the 1967 war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians." As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."
>
> So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" anymore to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths, until someone points out they're being taped.
>
>
> Instead, let's call them what they are:
> "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."
>
> I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN.
> How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David but if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living.
>
> That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where the real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.
>
> Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth . .. . you know that's really saying something.
>
> It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim MiddleEast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.
>
>
> Chew this around & spit it out: 500 million Arabs; 5 million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it.
> And now these same folks swear that, if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals.
>
> Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea?
> Oh, that? We were just kidding.
>
> My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the Numbers.
> Imagine 500 million Jews and 5 million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it .Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children?.
>
> No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.
>
> Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that, with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a roomful of super models who've just had their drugs taken away.
>
> However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of losing moral weight. We've already lost some. After September 11th, our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the countries that supported them.
> Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day), start to do the same thing we did, and we tell them to show restraint.
>
> If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and east of the Jordan".
Dennis Miller is great :D
 
jmh80

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BigV - the only thing heatin' up right now is my underwear thinking about you and those new, defined abs Anagen+LipidFX hath given you!
:djparty:
 

MarcusG

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what is this bullcrap? no free speach... where did you get that?
Israel does not allow different religeons to marry?
I'm Israelly and my parents are of different religeons. where did you get this, genious?

The only think I can think of is that Israel doesn not allow west bank arabs to enter Israel under a cover of "marriage" to Israelly arabs - because such individuals performed and aided in suicide bombing. sorry for defending ourselves, I guess that makes us undemocratic.:blink:
Well that law assumes that all West Bank Arabs are terrorists.
 

BioHazzard

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"...They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David but if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living...."

That is the real Palestinian tragedy. They don't think in terms of making life better for their children. Rabin, Perez and Barak offered them their own country. But they refused to compromise on the Right of Return and Jerusalem....
 

judge-mental

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Well that law assumes that all West Bank Arabs are terrorists.
no it doens't. marriage is allowed. let them live in the west bank under the rule of their sweet leaders.
 

judge-mental

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As I said, the right to defend ourselves comes before any right to "love". we were ok with those reunions until those people started exploding in our busses. well guess what buddy, ain't gonna happen.

And, the west bank is not udner occupation BTW. get your facts right. they have a self rule there (although not a country, thank god, otherwise I in tel aviv would suffering rocket attacks too)
 

MarcusG

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"...They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David but if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living...."

That is the real Palestinian tragedy. They don't think in terms of making life better for their children. Rabin, Perez and Barak offered them their own country. But they refused to compromise on the Right of Return and Jerusalem....
The real tragedy is that the media never reports the Palestinian issue in the context of the occupation and always portrays the Israeli's as being reactive.
The documentary Peace Propaganda and Israel gives a nice explanation.link
 

MarcusG

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As I said, the right to defend ourselves comes before any right to "love". we were ok with those reunions until those people started exploding in our busses. well guess what buddy, ain't gonna happen.

And, the west bank is not udner occupation BTW. get your facts right. they have a self rule there (although not a country, thank god, otherwise I in tel aviv would suffering rocket attacks too)
Well spinning the term occuppied territories into disputed territories doesn't change the fact that Israeli's control the West Bank and occupy the hundreds of Jewish illegal settlements there.

If Israel is so desperate for peace why doesn't it pack and leave the West Bank?
 

MaynardMeek

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Israel left every last part that they were asked to do. They did leave the west bank, they tore down their own people's houses while they were still in them, they just went back in to the strip because the Palestinian arms were being fired from there.
 
Jayhawkk

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This diatribe is actually part of a column by humorist Larry Miller which appeared in The Daily Standard on 22 April 2002. It is a reaction piece to a 10 April 2002 FOX News Network interview conducted by Greta van Susteren with Ishmael Abu-Shanab, spokesman for the Hamas political wing in the Gaza strip, and American attorney Stanley Cohen, who has represented the head of Hamas
Not Dennis Miller
 

MarcusG

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Israel left every last part that they were asked to do. They did leave the west bank, they tore down their own people's houses while they were still in them, they just went back in to the strip because the Palestinian arms were being fired from there.
No they did not. Israel only totally pulled out from their Gaza strip settlements.

Israel still has about 200,000 Jewish settlers in a few hundred settlements in the West Bank not counting over 100,000 in the East Jerusalem settlements. Israel only dismantled 4 settlements in the West Bank in 2005.
 

BioHazzard

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Thats discrimination pure and simple. In practical terms some marriages are banned. Sweet leaders? The west bank is under occupation if you haven't heard.
Love And Marriage In Israel By Suraya Dadoo
No one gives a sh1t about any marriages, if the Palestinians do not as a people, condone and collaborate to use every mean, such as using ambulance for example, to smuggle suicide bombers to blow up civilians. Israeli would throw a party for every marrying Palestinian couple if they stopped their murderous misadventure and chose to co-exist with them.

You get your cause and effect all mixed up.

The excuse of the West Bank under occupation is just that, an excuse. Barak offered to give it all to them, minus a few major settlement, and in return, he threw in East Jerusalem and its surrounding neighborhood. And what did he get for his trouble?

Israel gave back the Gaza. What are they using it for? A base to launch rockets at Israel cities and to launch infiltration into Israel proper.

When and IF they get West Bank back, they will just use it as another base for infiltration and attack against Israel.

I am sure that is also justifiable, since Israel is the product of a 'crusade invasion of Palestine', according to Hamas and Hizballah.

Against a group of uncompromising fanatics whose goal is your destruction, there is no room for negotiation. When the fanatics are wiped out, by Israel or via a civil war among the Palestinians, then there will be peace.
 

BioHazzard

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The real tragedy is that the media never reports the Palestinian issue in the context of the occupation and always portrays the Israeli's as being reactive.
The documentary Peace Propaganda and Israel gives a nice explanation.link
And you have conveniently ignored the fact that Israel has and still is willing to give it back to them, in exchange for peace.

Here are a few facts you have ignored too.

1. Gaza is not under occupation and what an oasis of peace and prosperity it has become. :rolleyes:

2. South Lebanon has long not under occupation and what has Hizbballah turned it into? ;)
 

BioHazzard

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Well spinning the term occuppied territories into disputed territories doesn't change the fact that Israeli's control the West Bank and occupy the hundreds of Jewish illegal settlements there.

If Israel is so desperate for peace why doesn't it pack and leave the West Bank?
IT did with Gaza. And what happened since? Rockets every other day. Numerous infiltrators caught. Tunnels found. And the last straw is the cross border raid and abduction.

What makes you assume that withdrawing from the West Bank will bring peace?
 

MaynardMeek

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No they did not. Israel only totally pulled out from their Gaza strip settlements.

Israel still has about 200,000 Jewish settlers in a few hundred settlements in the West Bank not counting over 100,000 in the East Jerusalem settlements. Israel only dismantled 4 settlements in the West Bank in 2005.


You are right, i don't know why i said strip, but i thought only of strip in my mind... west bank was not on the list of things needed to do by the UN. They only needed to take down 4 of their settlements, which they did. And if they left the rest of the west bank then they will just have to go in again to take at hamaas gunmen/bombers
 
swole210

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Here's the problem fbxdan. Israel has been ATTEMPTING to stop these attacks in the fashion you mention above for DECADES! The result, their people keep dying. And, of course, they are more concerned with their people than the Lebonese people. This is the same with all countries and while probably not "theoretically morally right", right and wrong matter much less than survival to people in danger. Its easy for us to tell them to not try to ELIMINATE the problem from a third person point of view. If mexico was sending missiles into US cities and strapping bombs to babies just to kill a few civilians I'd be willing to be you'd be up in arms.

In addition, Hezzbollah IS PART OF the lebonese government. They hold something like 1/4 of the seats of the lebonese government because they were voted in! So, yes, a large portion of their government is in fact a terrorist organization. Israel doesn't want Lebanon to permanently hate them. They understand its very important that the Lebanese democracy survive so they can stop this madness one day. But, the Lebanese army and the rest of the Lebanese government (not Hezzbollah) are scared to death of hezbollah and are impotent as a result.

As wonderful as the notion of problem solving via diplomacy sounds, of the 6 BILLION people on this earth, only a few hundred million are willing to do so and unless everyone is playing by the same rules, you're just looking to get your ass taken advantage of.
I've been away from my computer for about a week or so , so sorry for joining in this late. Kwyck (and many others) have made some very intelligent and well informed points on this topic! I stille have not finished catching up in this thread, but this statement that Kwyck made about the Labanese government being scared to death of Hezzbollah is very true!! I just came back from NY, and called up two of my best friends, which happen to be Lebanese. I wanted to know how their family was doing over there right now. Come to find out that their parents went over there to visit family, and this whole thing went down. Thank god they made it back to states safely as of yesterday! Anywho, back to my point at hand. My buddies were saying that this whole thing is not with the Lebanese people, that it is the Hezzbollah, and that the Lebanese people are very much against the Hezzbollah. The way he put it, was that the Hezzbollah is like a big gang of thugs. These thugs now have a lot of big guns, given to them by other big nations which back them up. The Lebanese government is scared to pick a fight with them because of this backing of power they have, and the guns they get from it. They are afraid that if they picked a fight with the Hezzbollah to try and oust them, it could cause some kind of civil dismay, and eventually cause the Lebanese government to faulter, and fall!
 
kwyckemynd00

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Yep, exactly. The 40% shiite muslim population put 25% of the seats of their gov't into the hands of Hezzbollah (terrorists) and if they are attempted to be overthrown, they'll be sure to cause problems within the Lebanon.

Thx for chiming in swole!
 
anabolicrhino

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I've been away from my computer for about a week or so , so sorry for joining in this late. Kwyck (and many others) have made some very intelligent and well informed points on this topic! I stille have not finished catching up in this thread, but this statement that Kwyck made about the Labanese government being scared to death of Hezzbollah is very true!! I just came back from NY, and called up two of my best friends, which happen to be Lebanese. I wanted to know how their family was doing over there right now. Come to find out that their parents went over there to visit family, and this whole thing went down. Thank god they made it back to states safely as of yesterday! Anywho, back to my point at hand. My buddies were saying that this whole thing is not with the Lebanese people, that it is the Hezzbollah, and that the Lebanese people are very much against the Hezzbollah. The way he put it, was that the Hezzbollah is like a big gang of thugs. These thugs now have a lot of big guns, given to them by other big nations which back them up. The Lebanese government is scared to pick a fight with them because of this backing of power they have, and the guns they get from it. They are afraid that if they picked a fight with the Hezzbollah to try and oust them, it could cause some kind of civil dismay, and eventually cause the Lebanese government to faulter, and fall!
This is a similar situation to the one between the current administration of the United States and its(our) global military activity. The US ctizens (me) have been afraid to challenge the authority of its leaders to send soldiers to die for an unknown objective(oil?)(freedom?)
While the US citizen is not challenged with physical violence, they are threatened with the lable of being unpatriotic.The fear is that the lack of patriotism will lead to a weaker USA.
 
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