stimm free preworkout that really boos performance
- Thread starter kingdong
- Start date
Rosie Chee
The Female Terminator
Wait for the stim-free Assault to come out.
Otherwise, if you want a specific preworkout product that's stim-free, you probably can't get better (yet) than Invalid Link Removed.
Or you could just get bulk powders and make your own, using creatine, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, and Invalid Link Removed (with or without Invalid Link Removed).
~Rosie~
~Rosie~
SamBoz19
Well-known member
Pre-Max is the way to go...Nuff said!
Either that or you could just buy some bulk powders and create your own Pre-Workout. I use Maximum absorbed Protein, IBCAA, Creapure, Beta-Alanine, GPLC, and ArginoCarn...for the stim kick I just roll with my greatest addiction...Monster Lo-Carb
Cheers!:cheers:
-Sean-
Primordial Performance
Either that or you could just buy some bulk powders and create your own Pre-Workout. I use Maximum absorbed Protein, IBCAA, Creapure, Beta-Alanine, GPLC, and ArginoCarn...for the stim kick I just roll with my greatest addiction...Monster Lo-Carb
Cheers!:cheers:
-Sean-
Primordial Performance
freefall365
Active member
lol nevermind :smokin:
criticalbench
Legend
I'd give hemavol a look; its a pretty potent non-stim pre-workout designed to increase pumps via the NO mechanism of citrulline malate, agmantine, etc. and also by increasing plasma volume. Gets tons of great consistent reviews.
Mike
Mike
Bnatural
AX Product Specialist
Citruvol has citrulline malate and beta-alanine
we also revamped the flavor to make it all natural flavoring in RagNOrok which comes in stim and stim free versions.
the label provides a fairly straight forward label with each blend broken down, rather than 15-20 ingredients listed out in a giant blend.
we also revamped the flavor to make it all natural flavoring in RagNOrok which comes in stim and stim free versions.
the label provides a fairly straight forward label with each blend broken down, rather than 15-20 ingredients listed out in a giant blend.
SilentBob187
Well-known member
I like the cut of your jib. You could drink that straight which would be rather sour or mix it with gatorade or maybe even a product like Xtend or Maximum Absorbed Protein and have a more complete pre-workout c*cktail.
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
PreMax definitely fits the requirements, but it isn't necessarily available in bulk.
I would look into Creapure, Beta Alanine, BCAAs, GPLC, or ArginoCarn as possible bulk powders to contribute towards making your own formula.
I would look into Creapure, Beta Alanine, BCAAs, GPLC, or ArginoCarn as possible bulk powders to contribute towards making your own formula.
ryansm
Well-known member
Liked Ultima too, Assault looks interesting, right now I am using Pre Max and love it.
gymrat827
Well-known member
Make your own.
Scivation X tend 1045g have seen it on sale for 38 bux at two places
Nutraplanet Dicreatine Mal. 500g 13bux
"" Beta Alanine 100g 11bux
"" L-Carnitine 100g 12bux
4 scoups x tend (est. 10g glut, 15g BCAA, 2 citrulline mal.)
6g DiCreatine Mal.
2g Beta Alanine
2g carnitine
You will like the stack and its pretty cheap for what your getting.
should be able to make those tubs/containers last 40-50 servings.
Scivation X tend 1045g have seen it on sale for 38 bux at two places
Nutraplanet Dicreatine Mal. 500g 13bux
"" Beta Alanine 100g 11bux
"" L-Carnitine 100g 12bux
4 scoups x tend (est. 10g glut, 15g BCAA, 2 citrulline mal.)
6g DiCreatine Mal.
2g Beta Alanine
2g carnitine
You will like the stack and its pretty cheap for what your getting.
should be able to make those tubs/containers last 40-50 servings.
sking6464
Active member
stim-free assault sounds nice!!!!!
i use MAP (protein), and add beta alanine, bcaas, and gplc......this has been as good for me as jack3d or 1mr....on a lagging day ill add a caff pill.....it really is good, minus the stim feeling you are looking to avoid....monohydrate or dicreatine malate would be nice add ons
pre-max looks good, but is one of those luxury supps imo
i use MAP (protein), and add beta alanine, bcaas, and gplc......this has been as good for me as jack3d or 1mr....on a lagging day ill add a caff pill.....it really is good, minus the stim feeling you are looking to avoid....monohydrate or dicreatine malate would be nice add ons
pre-max looks good, but is one of those luxury supps imo
SilentBob187
Well-known member
I made a pretty good c*cktail this morning
1/2 scoop MAP
5g iBCAA
2.5g Creapure
3.2g Beta Alanine
1.5g GPLC
1g ALCAR
3g ArinoCarn
Tasted bad (not enough MAP,) but the workout was great. That "focused" feeling was amazing with this. Endurance was high too. Worked out longer than I intended because I didn't reach that fatigued feeling when I normally do.
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Told you that you would like the arginocarn!
MakaveliThaDon
Well-known member
I picked up a bottle of ultima a bit ago. Haven't tried it yet. The ingredients list looks extremely complete/solid except for one thing. How/why does it not have any form of arginine in it?
sking6464
Active member
Told you that you would like the arginocarn!
i would like to try, but your site wont send it to canada....i had to bend over backwards just to get gplc in my hands.....and if you knew why that stuff wasnt allowed here, youd fkn laugh
i took a look at that ultima....what a laundry list of stuff, i dont doubt it works, just not my kind of thing
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Isn't there a carnitine "ban" in Canada?
Chubbinmuffin
Active member
How do you guys get past the taste of bulk powders?
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Depending on the powder, I either parachute them or I mix them with a flavored beverage.
sking6464
Active member
Why is L-Carnitine Restricted in Canada?
A controlled substance is "any type of drug that the federal government has categorized as having a higher-than-average potential for abuse or addiction. Such drugs are divided into categories based on their potential for abuse or addiction. Controlled substances range from illegal street drugs to prescription medications."
Carnitine is a nitrogen amide or quaternary ammonium compound synthesized by the human body from amino acids or ingested primarily through meat eating. Vegetarians, needless to say, consume very little carnitine, and vegans none.
Carnitine is essential for transporting fatty acids into mitochondria where the fatty acids are used as fuel to create energy. Those born without the enzyme that allows carnitine to work its magic have to consume carbohydrates, only carbohydrates, as their energy source and if they go too long without eating carbohydrates they will become weak. There is also some work that shows dogs who do not get L-carnitine in their diet may develop dilated cardiomyopathy. In other words, carnitine is essential for healthy muscle function, including healthy hearts.
Now Canada has a Natural Health Product Act (which Harper wants to tighten) that governs what can or cannot be considered a natural product. It has two Schedules. Schedule 1 lists all the "in" products, the ones Health Canada considers kosher. Schedule 2 lists the "baddies," the substances banned for various reasons that are not always logical, scientific, or based on anything other than who knows whom. Schedule 2 products are:
1. A substance set out in Schedule C to the Act (this is lawyer speak for flip around, you have to work for your information). Turns out these are radiopharmaceuticals.
2. A substance set out in Schedule D (biologics) to the Act, except for the following: a drug that is prepared from any of the following micro-organisms, namely, an alga, a bacterium or a fungus; and any substance set out on Schedule D when it is prepared in accordance with the practices of homeopathic pharmacy
3. A substance regulated under the Tobacco Act
4. A substance set out in any of Schedules I to V of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act
5. A substance that is administered by puncturing the dermis
6. An antibiotic prepared from an alga, a bacterium or a fungus or a synthetic duplicate of that antibiotic
It is interesting to note that Schedule 1, which lists those products that can be used in natural health products, includes:
1. Non-human animal material
2. An extract or isolate of a substance described in item 1, the primary molecular structure of which is identical to that which it had prior to its extraction or isolation
I do believe that L-carnitine fits the bill. But wait. Not so fast.
Carnitine and its stereoisomers, including its biologically active form L-carnitine, are not a radiopharmaceutical, micro-organism, tobacco product, skin puncturing product, or an antibiotic, yet the Natural Health Product Act states that L-carnitine is a Schedule 2 product. L-carnitine is a "prohibited substance" and any product that contains it will not be considered for licensure as a natural health product. So that must mean it's listed in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. I actually couldn't find it listed in any of that Act's Schedules.
However, Health Canada states also that L-carnitine is a Schedule F product. What is Schedule F? (Does your heard hurt yet?) It's a Schedule in the Food and Drugs Act that covers drugs that can only be prescribed and that cannot be sold to a consumer without a prescription (there are a whole slew of ifs, ands, buts covering how, when, where, to whom it can be prescribed).
But wait.
Carnitine is a nutrient used by the body, is essential to the body, and is not high inducing nor addictive; it's also found plentifully in food and synthesized by our own bodies, and excess carnitine is excreted by the kidneys, meaning it's safe. We know a controlled substance is one that is subject to abuse or addiction something like opium, and prescribed drugs are ones whose dosages require the expertise of a doctor to calculate and to guard against side effects, toxicity, and drug interactions. But unlike heroin, carnitine or L-carnitine is not addictive, and unlike so many prescription drugs, it's well tolerated and safe. So why does it need to be prescribed?
Puzzled?
Then consider this. Sigma-Tau, an Italian pharmaceutical company, is the sole owner of a plethora of patents for L-carnitine products. My search of the Canadian Patents Database resulted in 141 patents. Furthermore, according to Whistleblower2004, "former health minister David Dingwall did get a substantial campaign donation from the pharmaceutical company Sigma-Tau in the 1993 election." Only Sigma-Tau can sell L-carnitine.
This is known as power. One company holds a bunch of patents on all sorts of products containing L-carnitine. Furthermore, these products can only be sold to consumers with a prescription. And finally, pharmacies can only order L-carnitine-containing products from one seller, the same company that holds the patents: Sigma-Tau. What a lock, eh!
Our patent laws governing prescription drugs means a company holding a patent on a prescription drug has a lock on the sale of that drug, that is, no generic manufacturer can duplicate that drug, for 20 years from the date of patent. With no competition, the patent-holder can set any price it chooses for 20 years, and no one else can enter the market. Now over-the-counter (OTC) products have no such protections. If L-carnitine was sold OTC, then there would be no restriction to competitors coming in and selling their L-carnitine natural health products. But Sigma-Tau would lose a lot of bucks.
To summarize: L-carnitine is a nutrient found in food and us. It is not a narcotic. It's not prone to toxicity as our kidneys excrete any excess amounts ingested. It makes no logical sense for carnitine to be a prescription-only, controlled drug.
And the nail in the coffin as to why restricting the sale of L-carnitine is bogus and not based on science, is the fact that in the US it's available as an OTC product.
Do I smell the whiff of corruption? Or is this part of a bigger, international industry-created-Canada-approved problem called "Codex Alimentarius"?
A controlled substance is "any type of drug that the federal government has categorized as having a higher-than-average potential for abuse or addiction. Such drugs are divided into categories based on their potential for abuse or addiction. Controlled substances range from illegal street drugs to prescription medications."
Carnitine is a nitrogen amide or quaternary ammonium compound synthesized by the human body from amino acids or ingested primarily through meat eating. Vegetarians, needless to say, consume very little carnitine, and vegans none.
Carnitine is essential for transporting fatty acids into mitochondria where the fatty acids are used as fuel to create energy. Those born without the enzyme that allows carnitine to work its magic have to consume carbohydrates, only carbohydrates, as their energy source and if they go too long without eating carbohydrates they will become weak. There is also some work that shows dogs who do not get L-carnitine in their diet may develop dilated cardiomyopathy. In other words, carnitine is essential for healthy muscle function, including healthy hearts.
Now Canada has a Natural Health Product Act (which Harper wants to tighten) that governs what can or cannot be considered a natural product. It has two Schedules. Schedule 1 lists all the "in" products, the ones Health Canada considers kosher. Schedule 2 lists the "baddies," the substances banned for various reasons that are not always logical, scientific, or based on anything other than who knows whom. Schedule 2 products are:
1. A substance set out in Schedule C to the Act (this is lawyer speak for flip around, you have to work for your information). Turns out these are radiopharmaceuticals.
2. A substance set out in Schedule D (biologics) to the Act, except for the following: a drug that is prepared from any of the following micro-organisms, namely, an alga, a bacterium or a fungus; and any substance set out on Schedule D when it is prepared in accordance with the practices of homeopathic pharmacy
3. A substance regulated under the Tobacco Act
4. A substance set out in any of Schedules I to V of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act
5. A substance that is administered by puncturing the dermis
6. An antibiotic prepared from an alga, a bacterium or a fungus or a synthetic duplicate of that antibiotic
It is interesting to note that Schedule 1, which lists those products that can be used in natural health products, includes:
1. Non-human animal material
2. An extract or isolate of a substance described in item 1, the primary molecular structure of which is identical to that which it had prior to its extraction or isolation
I do believe that L-carnitine fits the bill. But wait. Not so fast.
Carnitine and its stereoisomers, including its biologically active form L-carnitine, are not a radiopharmaceutical, micro-organism, tobacco product, skin puncturing product, or an antibiotic, yet the Natural Health Product Act states that L-carnitine is a Schedule 2 product. L-carnitine is a "prohibited substance" and any product that contains it will not be considered for licensure as a natural health product. So that must mean it's listed in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. I actually couldn't find it listed in any of that Act's Schedules.
However, Health Canada states also that L-carnitine is a Schedule F product. What is Schedule F? (Does your heard hurt yet?) It's a Schedule in the Food and Drugs Act that covers drugs that can only be prescribed and that cannot be sold to a consumer without a prescription (there are a whole slew of ifs, ands, buts covering how, when, where, to whom it can be prescribed).
But wait.
Carnitine is a nutrient used by the body, is essential to the body, and is not high inducing nor addictive; it's also found plentifully in food and synthesized by our own bodies, and excess carnitine is excreted by the kidneys, meaning it's safe. We know a controlled substance is one that is subject to abuse or addiction something like opium, and prescribed drugs are ones whose dosages require the expertise of a doctor to calculate and to guard against side effects, toxicity, and drug interactions. But unlike heroin, carnitine or L-carnitine is not addictive, and unlike so many prescription drugs, it's well tolerated and safe. So why does it need to be prescribed?
Puzzled?
Then consider this. Sigma-Tau, an Italian pharmaceutical company, is the sole owner of a plethora of patents for L-carnitine products. My search of the Canadian Patents Database resulted in 141 patents. Furthermore, according to Whistleblower2004, "former health minister David Dingwall did get a substantial campaign donation from the pharmaceutical company Sigma-Tau in the 1993 election." Only Sigma-Tau can sell L-carnitine.
This is known as power. One company holds a bunch of patents on all sorts of products containing L-carnitine. Furthermore, these products can only be sold to consumers with a prescription. And finally, pharmacies can only order L-carnitine-containing products from one seller, the same company that holds the patents: Sigma-Tau. What a lock, eh!
Our patent laws governing prescription drugs means a company holding a patent on a prescription drug has a lock on the sale of that drug, that is, no generic manufacturer can duplicate that drug, for 20 years from the date of patent. With no competition, the patent-holder can set any price it chooses for 20 years, and no one else can enter the market. Now over-the-counter (OTC) products have no such protections. If L-carnitine was sold OTC, then there would be no restriction to competitors coming in and selling their L-carnitine natural health products. But Sigma-Tau would lose a lot of bucks.
To summarize: L-carnitine is a nutrient found in food and us. It is not a narcotic. It's not prone to toxicity as our kidneys excrete any excess amounts ingested. It makes no logical sense for carnitine to be a prescription-only, controlled drug.
And the nail in the coffin as to why restricting the sale of L-carnitine is bogus and not based on science, is the fact that in the US it's available as an OTC product.
Do I smell the whiff of corruption? Or is this part of a bigger, international industry-created-Canada-approved problem called "Codex Alimentarius"?
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Wow that is pretty ****ty. Reps though for sharing.
rulk22
Well-known member
I throw them in a protein shake (MAP), or cyrstal light added to water, or Vitaberry. Sometimes MAP is strong enough at 2 scoops.
ryansm
Well-known member
Damn, I thought we had tight and completely ignorant/biased laws...
fightbackhxc
Well-known member
Pre-Max is the way to go...Nuff said!
Either that or you could just buy some bulk powders and create your own Pre-Workout. I use Maximum absorbed Protein, IBCAA, Creapure, Beta-Alanine, GPLC, and ArginoCarn...for the stim kick I just roll with my greatest addiction...Monster Lo-Carb
Cheers!:cheers:
-Sean-
Primordial Performance
Ive been doing this in the past and its worked well, since I cant afford the premax, this gets me more doseage.