Serious doubts about Ostarine!

[shocknyou]

I have gone to the GTX website to research Ostarine along visiting a multitude of other sites. I have come across a laundry list of companies claiming to sell Ostarine. This is my problem the company that holds that actual chemical formula for Ostarine shows it in a crystalized powder form that is yellowish or goldish in color. This would lead me to believe that when it is reconstituted in liquid form that the liquid would not be colorless and clear. I fully understand that it would appear clear however it should have a yellow tint. I went one step further and contacted the research chemical sellers and inquired about the clarity and color of the Ostarine that they have for sell. Not one of them gave a description that would satisfy me that it was in fact real Ostarine. I further find it hard to believe that a chemical that is still finishing its research trials would have the formula out there for sale prior to be able to recoup their research investment. That would be like spending millions of dollars on research and development on a product just to have it go to generic prior to the patent ending. All in all I think that Ostarine being purchased on these websites is false and you have no idea what you are actually taking.

 

[jtterrible]

to each their own I guess.. fyi if you buy it.. and it doesn't taste like petrol.. it's not real..

 

[soontobbeast]

good point.

 

[bashman]

That's the "black market" for ya

 

[CoorsLight126]

i have serious doubts about a lot of new peptides and research chems. the cost of the stuff is ridiculous. i can go get a kit of GH for what they want for some of this crap

 

[shocknyou]

To those that buy it I believe that its a substance that will in fact help you in body building but its not ostarine. Most likely its a cheap knock off of a weak steroid hence the small gains in lean muscle that people of getting and the lack of gyno and other side effects. This is just my opinion and I admit that I could be wrong however I could be right as well. I just believe that if it sounds too good to be true it usually is and there's always a catch.

 

[RickRock13]

I love the stuff and for the first time I had strength gains in PCT, along with heavy sweating and leaning out. Sounds like a win to me

 

[SkyWeasal]

To those that buy it I believe that its a substance that will in fact help you in body building but its not ostarine. Most likely its a cheap knock off of a weak steroid hence the small gains in lean muscle that people of getting and the lack of gyno and other side effects. This is just my opinion and I admit that I could be wrong however I could be right as well. I just believe that if it sounds too good to be true it usually is and there's always a catch.

There is another thread I recently read where PA ran a sample he received from another board member through his mass spectrometer and it was consistent with ostarine.

Granted some from some suppliers may be bunk but in that case it appears to be the real stuff. (Source was a board sponsor here on AM.)

 

[jaydollars]

^^^From what I have heard PA tested a sample from big seller, and there was OSTA in there, and I also used it with amazing results, so actually the OP did nothing to change my opinions

 

[shocknyou]

There is another thread I recently read where PA ran a sample he received from another board member through his mass spectrometer and it was consistent with ostarine.

Granted some from some suppliers may be bunk but in that case it appears to be the real stuff. (Source was a board sponsor here on AM.)

Well I certainly don't have access to a mass spectrometer. I have worked in the medical field for over a decade now. I have spent the past 6 years with one of the largest medical companies in the world as a sales representative. I know how secretive we are with any product that we are studying. My first question would be how he would be able to compare the "Ostarine" he tested as being legit when as far as I have been able to tell the compound's formula has never been published. Now I admit that I could be wrong about the publishing aspect. Firstly, in my research I found on multiple sites that the ostarine compound has not been published. Secondly I have a lot of friends in the pharmaceutical business and this is my understanding of this situation. If a pharmaceutical company such as GTX published a compound's formula there would be nothing that company could do to stop other companies like Johnson & Johnson, Astra Zenica, Glaxo Kline Smith or multitude of other pharmaceutical companies with deeper pockets and more scientists from taking the formula altering it in a tiny way and beat them to the market with their far superior resources and connections.

Rickrock-

I appreciate that you have had a great experience with the product you purchased whatever it may have been. I am surprised by the fact that this is the first time you have had strength gains during a PCT. I feel that this may be a placebo effect. I, myself and finishing by PCT after a cycle of Epistane. My PCT consisted of a estrogen inhibitor and a testosterone booster. I have continued to make gains in strength although at a much slower pace. Admittedly I have never used AAS, only prohormones and maybe that is the difference. I have always been scared of AAS as I am not aware of the actual source and being that they are illegal (which is so ****ing stupid) that I have no recourse if I am sold a bogus product. Where I live I believe that only the purchase of steroids is illegal or have an amount that would be considered too much of personal use. Should I ever travel across the border I will probably research the current laws at that time and if able will bring a personal supply back with me. I am not wanting to abuse any substance. I feel that all substances even asprin can be abused but that if substances are use responsibly that we could get gains that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Again this is just my opinions, however I am really freaking smart and well educated.:cheers:

 

[RickRock13]

I would agree that I'm sure there is good and bad sources out there for SARMS, just as there is with any other research chemical SERMS (which is why I only go pharmaceutical grade) so I guess its just as anything else you put in your body. Are you willing to take the risk of unknown sides or your product being bunk vs. any benefit you may get from it. For the record I used the same source for my SARMS as many other reputable members and good friends of mine from this site with all similar results

 

[Carcaya]

Currently running osta received from SS. Tastes like rubber cement. There is more than placebo with it. Reminds me of Havoc a bit, but weaker. I see no evidence to prove that it is the compound, except by blindly believing the company. It would be nice for the companies to provide maybe a bit of proof of authenticity. Luckily, I have a somewhat mini pct prepped for post osta due to the uncertainty involved. It's amazing how mystical this whole supplement/research chem. It's still like the wild freakin' west -'take this elixir, get magically huge!'

 

[schwellington]

just because a powder is yellow. does not mean when suspended the suspension will be yellow. Ostarine, is out there, but harder to find. As for me, I have had real ostarine(no supression, total mass retention IN pct, increased sweating, increased endurance.)

now i havent had it tested, but aside from that part im certain it's real.


look harder

 

[smt1]

Ostarine's chemical structure is no secret.

It has been described in research papers by GTx and Merck.
Anti-doping research sponsored by WADA have also identified MS testing procedures for arylpropionamide SARMs.
Synthesis procedures have been described in GTx' patent filings.

Your point about RC vendors not always being reliable is fully on cue however. It's especially problematic for stuff like Ostarine and S4 as they are derived from potent anti-androgens with completely different effects.

 

[JudoJosh]

Ostarine

N-[4-Nitro-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-(2S)-3-[4-(acetylamino)phenoxy]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide

CAS NO. 401900-40-1

M.F. C19H18F3N3O6

M.W. 441.36

Ostarine ((2R)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-N-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide) is an investigational selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) from GTx Inx, for treatment of conditions such as muscle wasting and osteoporosis, formerly under development by Merck & Company.

 

[jtterrible]

Ostarine

N-[4-Nitro-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-(2S)-3-[4-(acetylamino)phenoxy]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide

CAS NO. 401900-40-1

M.F. C19H18F3N3O6

M.W. 441.36

Ostarine ((2R)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-N-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide) is an investigational selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) from GTx Inx, for treatment of conditions such as muscle wasting and osteoporosis, formerly under development by Merck & Company.

what now?!

 

[JudoJosh]

Also to add, I'm not sire but I would imagine there would be a difference between selling a chemical for commercial purposes and selling it for research purposes. Remember these sites aren't pharma sites and aren't selling you products to self medicate with them. The understanding is your buying them for research purposes. It may be when you are selling chemicals to researchers it doesn't infringe on a patent. It may very well be in a pharmaceutical companies best interest to make the compound available to other researchers since they can use their studies to support their claims of effectiveness and safety to the FDA when they apply for it to be sold commercially.

Just a thought

 

[shocknyou]

Also to add, I'm not sire but I would imagine there would be a difference between selling a chemical for commercial purposes and selling it for research purposes. Remember these sites aren't pharma sites and aren't selling you products to self medicate with them. The understanding is your buying them for research purposes. It may be when you are selling chemicals to researchers it doesn't infringe on a patent. It may very well be in a pharmaceutical companies best interest to make the compound available to other researchers since they can use their studies to support their claims of effectiveness and safety to the FDA when they apply for it to be sold commercially.

Just a thought

You and Rickrock have definitely brought up some interesting things to consider. I am by no means an expert in this area. I do know that formulas are constantly altered in the research process prior to finding the one that eventually gets FDA approval. I guess my next question would be wether or not these research companies are using the latest formulas. If they are not the latest formula I would wonder what was wrong with them. Maybe its that I did not find a reputable research company in my inquiry of this product. Ostarine and what I have read about it fascinates me. I would love to know how to go about verifying the quality of the product if I did in fact purchase it. I would also like to know where to research the reputations of these chemical research companies. Is there a site that allows to read feedback users provided about the research companies? I realize that asking for sources is not an acceptable practice. I am asking how you chose the research company you went with. Where did you get your information that made you feel comfortable with the company you chose as being a honest company?

 

[JudoJosh]

You and Rickrock have definitely brought up some interesting things to consider. I am by no means an expert in this area. I do know that formulas are constantly altered in the research process prior to finding the one that eventually gets FDA approval. I guess my next question would be wether or not these research companies are using the latest formulas. If they are not the latest formula I would wonder what was wrong with them. Maybe its that I did not find a reputable research company in my inquiry of this product. Ostarine and what I have read about it fascinates me. I would love to know how to go about verifying the quality of the product if I did in fact purchase it. I would also like to know where to research the reputations of these chemical research companies. Is there a site that allows to read feedback users provided about the research companies? I realize that asking for sources is not an acceptable practice. I am asking how you chose the research company you went with. Where did you get your information that made you feel comfortable with the company you chose as being a honest company?

In all honestly I think the whole field of research chems is shady business all together. I mean what researcher would be buying only one single compound if they are truly conducting research? Furthermore most of the research chem sites only sell bodybuilding related products and most of them market them to the bodybuilding crowd.

I would guess they get their supply from Chinese manufacturers, the structure I posted above was from a Chinese supplier. I don't think there would be any way for you to truly find out if a company is legit and what they are selling is legit it's all faith and you base the faith off of a reputation of a company. Only way I can imagine is if you send the chem off to a third party lab to get verified and even then who knows if your next shipment would be from that same batch.

The whole supplement realm is all based upon faith of the companies. Hell even the FDA approved stuff is even shady IMO. If you don't feel comfortable taking something without absolute certainty then I suggest you don't mess with PH/DS/AAS at all to avoid a reason to use research chem products and just stick with the basic supplements

 

[shocknyou]

Judo

I have had great experiences with PHs and most likely will stick with them. Still Ostarine sounds fantastic on paper. I guess the real question is whether I will come across a supplier that I feel comfortable with buying from. Until then I know based on my own experiences with PHs and the ability to gain references from friends and others on sites like AM with specific companies that gives me my comfort level with PHs. My biggest problem with the chemical research sites is the lack of ability to gain references for the companies. No one is allowed to discuss what companies they have used, they can only post the compound they used. Then if you research that compound you find it offered by 15 different sites at different concentrations. Unfortunately I do not have any friends that have used anything other the PHs so I have a lack of a reference pool.

I really appreciate how you have discussed this logically and not argumentatively. It is refreshing to have an open conversation on what could be considered a volatile subject. Thank you.

 

[HondaV65]

I further find it hard to believe that a chemical that is still finishing its research trials would have the formula out there for sale prior to be able to recoup their research investment.

Believe it ...


Ostarine-Ostarine Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.com

You can buy that stuff all over the place. Overseas, domestically. Not saying all of this is Osta - but certainly a lot of it is.

Just like Viagra - Pfizer has a patent on it (which is about to expire) ... you can still buy generic versions of it all over the place.

I'm not even sure anyone has a patent on Ostarine.

EDIT: Just checked - and it appears that GTX does have a patent on Osta - but the chemical composition is very well known.

Anyway - if the only place you can get genuine Osta is from GTX - then I highly doubt ANY research chemical or sarm supplier is getting it from them. This would suggest that there is NO real "Osta" out there at all (though we all know this is not true). But the fact is - why would GTX jeopardize it's future FDA approvals by selling it's product to Sarm suppliers for the body building community? Even the most "sacred" Sarm suppliers on this board.

Clearly - EVERYONE is selling some generic form of the chemical compound.

 

[Tipaso]

believing sure feels good don't it....

Uh yeah...you may have a specrometer etc but without the reference values of what you are testing against you have no way of knowing. In this case the reference values are not available. Period. Let's use common sense guys instead of wishful thinking and suspension of disbelief.

 

[Tipaso]

yeah you can buy "stuff" with whatever label someone wants to put on it. But if you know that it's simply not possible of extremely unlikely for a manufacturer to be putting real verified ostarine in a bottle then you are kind of believing that some sweatshop company in china is super sophisticated and able to deduce an unpublished chimerical formula and the method of production. NO ONE is selling it.

 

[tehtruth]

Uh yeah...you may have a specrometer etc but without the reference values of what you are testing against you have no way of knowing. In this case the reference values are not available. Period. Let's use common sense guys instead of wishful thinking and suspension of disbelief.

i've been thinking about getting some ostarine and have been doing my due dilligence in research... Sure the fragmentation patterns produced could be for other chemical compounds... but we know the molecular weight, we know the structure - how many other compounds could produce an m/z, m+1, and fragmentations identical to that of ostarine? i can sit down right now WITHOUT a mass spec machine and propose what the results of the spectroscopy will look like (and HNMR, and uv/vis).

Also, no identification is thorough without using HNMR or CNMR (or both) in addition to mass spec... so I am sure PA also tested the compound's proton arrangement. proton nmr and mass spec (throw in hplc and uv/vis) and i would be comfortable within 99% certainty that the product is ostarine.

if a company that sells ostarine offers up HNMR and mass spec data to backup purity claims, then I would trust them - they will be liable if they sold you something other than what is advertised in the HNMR and mass spec (unless disclaimed otherwise).


- first post here... i like to lurk, but this was just bugging me!