SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[AustBenny]

I think it's important to get out of your comfort zone. When you talk about listening to your body - what are you listening for if you never push it?

 

[warpyfunch]

I think it's important to get out of your comfort zone. When you talk about listening to your body - what are you listening for if you never push it?

Well, maybe in the future, who knows. I think I'm good for this run though, so I'll see how it goes and use the results to learn more and make this decision all over again next time. I'm off to bed... goodnight everyone.

Edit... Oh but also just to address your first point from before, cost isn't even really a concern, though a waste of money is still a waste no matter how small. I'm more just concerned with wasting pills. I love ostarine, and this stuff has been pulled from the market. Screw RCs. There's probably never going to be capped osta out there ever again like there was in 2015. I stocked up and I have plenty to last me a good long while, but until I see it come back available, or until something else turns up that I like even better, which seems less and less likely with every new law passed, I'm going to treat it like what I've got is the last of it and stretch it as far as I possibly can. Maybe I can still get it years from now, but maybe it'll also cost me 10x as much due to scarcity. Using 20mg vs 25mg saves 280mg across 8 weeks. That's 5 full 8 week 20mg cycles rather than 4 25mg cycles from the same number of pills. Maybe that will never matter, or maybe I'll be super happy I planned ahead one day. Time will tell! Cheers!

 

[AustBenny]

Lol, you will be taking tren in no time bud and that ostarine will be gathering dust in the back of a cupboard.

 

[cheeky1]

These are all good questions! Most of it comes down to personal preference and completely unfounded hypotheses...


Absolutely true, no one has ever shown that either strategy is better than the other, but at the very least, split dosing is also not any worse. I don't feel like split dosing is a nuisance, and I have no problem remembering to take it, so why not? Someone did post some nice graphs a while back, I think maybe in this thread, that showed when all the math was done that while the same overall average blood saturation was reached both ways in the same amount of time, split dosing kept the level more stable with less dramatic peaks and valleys.

Again, not saying there's any proven benefit to more stable levels, but I like the idea and it may even give me a nice placebo effect! I also like to think that splitting it gives me better absorption, which results in more good placebo effect. If there's a strong argument against split dosing besides just plain convenience, I haven't heard it, but I'm always open to being corrected.


20mg is the sweet spot for me. 25mg may give a slightly stronger effect, but to me it's not worth the increased sides. I'm big on cost/benefit analysis. Everyone has their own personal philosophy with this stuff, and for me I'm not one who goes after gains at any cost. I would rather end up with a little less gains if it means a lot less sides and an easier recovery, which is why SARMs were such a godsend for me.

sanmarino has done some nice write ups on this idea... like if you rate the benefits and sides on an arbitrary scale of 1-10... Something like if 20mg gives an 8/10 benefit with 2/10 sides, while 25mg gives a 10/10 effect with 7/10 sides, you then have to decide if that extra 5/10 sides is really worth the 2/10 better effect. He said it better. Anyway, in my previous cycles I've experimented with doses as low as 10mg and as high as 25mg, and 20mg is where I feel I strike the best balance before the side effect curve starts outpacing the benefits. I'm also only 5'8 180lbs, so for someone who's 200+ they might be able to handle more.


It is OL. Two reasons... first, in my previous RAD experience, the best benefits seemed to come in the first two weeks, starting to plateau a bit in week 3, and by week 4 the sides and lethargy started to kick in. Again with the cost/benefit analysis, I didn't feel like the 4th week was worth the trouble. Based on how quickly the rad started working its magic, and given that it seemed like it would be best used for very short cycles, I thought it might be best used as a kick start at the front of a cycle with another compound that takes longer to get going. So this is less a full on RAD+osta stack, and more of an osta cycle with a RAD kickstart. Dma's early solo log showed a similar result that backed up my own experience.

Then again, in that cycle I had done the reverse, where I started with osta and added the rad at the end, so the 4th week of rad was really the 8th and final week of the entire cycle.. Maybe doing it this way will yield a different experience with sides. We'll see! Experimenting to find the best way to use these compounds is part of the fun.

Second, while I did stock up on quite a bit of rad during the blowout sale, as far as I can tell right now, it's a finite quantity and when it's gone, it's gone maybe forever. By stopping after 3 weeks, I'm in theory getting the best part of the cycle and saving 25% for down the line. And by the time I stop the rad, the osta should really be in full effect at about that same point, and on through the remaining weeks.

Awesome. You've obviously thought it all through & I cannot fault your logic. You know what works for you based on experience & can plan your cycle for best value vs results. Thanks for taking the time to answer my Q's, your doing so may help others reading this thread & contemplating a similar cycle :bigok:

 

[UncleSarm]

.....tons are coming out with lots of promise

Can you mention some of these products in the pipeline? Are they SARMS or PS/DS?

 

[yates84]

Can you mention some of these products in the pipeline? Are they SARMS or PS/DS?

I severely doubt we will see any new sarms coming out

 

[UncleSarm]

The sooner SARMs disappear and this thread dies the better.

Sorry yates84 but it's true lol.

:rant2:

 

[cheeky1]

I severely doubt we will see any new sarms coming out

Maybe not in the US, but what about Europe, China, India? Is the UK going to be a dumping ground for all of the unsold US market SARMs?

 

[Joedoubledose]

Do tell us Yates old chap lol

 

[UncleSarm]

2 weeks. I also didn't notice any let down at all when I dropped back to 20.

All of this is entirely subjective and anecdotal. There's never going to be any scientific studies large enough to really show the quantitative benefit of 20 vs 25, so that's all I have to go by.

It certainly would be nice to someday see studies on this. Then it turns out that the sweet spot is something like 21.3mg, so if you did 20mg you're going to feel like "crap, I was so close" and if you did 25mg you're going to be "crap, I wasted all those mgs". :lol:

 

[WAF]

I severely doubt we will see any new sarms coming out

Perhaps not in the US, but I've been incontact with an owner and he stated that their will be new compounds coming out. I've been using his products on and off for the past 10 months with good results. I asked for any clues on what he is working on but wouldn't say. For me the beauty of it is SARMS are they're still available with no issues in getting them, with next day shipping to house instead of waiting weeks sometimes from the US.
UncleSarm Nice name but I can't say at this time. Sorry.

 

[datsthat]

anybody get night sweats on osta? My buddy is on 20mg (worked his way up to 20mg) and he woke up in a pool of sweat the other night.

 

[yates84]

Perhaps not in the US, but I've been incontact with an owner and he stated that their will be new compounds coming out. I've been using his products on and off for the past 10 months with good results. I asked for any clues on what he is working on but wouldn't say. For me the beauty of it is SARMS are they're still available with no issues in getting them, with next day shipping to house instead of waiting weeks sometimes from the US.

UncleSarm Nice name but I can't say at this time. Sorry.

Interested to see what he comes up with.

 

[WAF]

Interested to see what he comes up with.

I'll keep everyone updated with anything new that comes up and as much info as possible.

 

[warpyfunch]

anybody get night sweats on osta? My buddy is on 20mg (worked his way up to 20mg) and he woke up in a pool of sweat the other night.

This happened to me during pct after my first osta cycle. Was a week into clomid. Hormones, man. Is he on anything else, or just solo?

 

[DonnieM]

anybody get night sweats on osta? My buddy is on 20mg (worked his way up to 20mg) and he woke up in a pool of sweat the other night.

I didnt have night sweats, but heavy sweating during workout.

 

[datsthat]

This happened to me during pct after my first osta cycle. Was a week into clomid. Hormones, man. Is he on anything else, or just solo?

only ostar1ne and dermacrine. I am guessing that is because it has kicked in all the way.

 

[ajaxinfinitum]

Looking for valid info. on why it is good to run Radarine on cycle with steroids. Thanks

 

[UncleSarm]

Looking for valid info. on why it is good to run Radarine on cycle with steroids. Thanks

Here is the info, with graphs:
Source: http://www.ergo-log.com/even-just-a-few-mg-of-rad140-has-anabolic-effect.html

 

[yates84]

I'm on week 1 with LGD and doing a higher volume workout routine. Until the LGD really kicks in, would it be wise to add some Cardar1ne in to help with endurance for a week or two? I find myself needing a lot of rest to recover from the volume I'm currently doing.

That would be cool. The carderine should help your endurance pick up a little bit. Once you start it you might as well run it the rest of your cycle.

 

[WAF]

I just added caradine in and am liking it so far. Endurance is greatly improved, seems like you tap into a hidden reserve of energy. I'm using it for a fat loss run right now with mk-677 and my leftover sr-9000 "yes no bioavailability and more or less debunked". As I've stated before i know the shortcomings of sr-9009 as discussed in my previous posts. I picked up a bunch when it just hit the market a long time ago and stocked up because of a crazy deal. I'm not expecting much or anything on the sr-9009, but wanted to state what other sarms im using. I'll probably pick up some more caradine soon though.

 

[yates84]

So I'm a week into LGD/MK-677 with some Cardar1ne thrown in. I'm felt really good during my workout today and from what I can tell I'm tolerating the LGD well enough. It's a night/day difference between doing a similar workout last week compared to today. Should I stick with 4mg for another week or bump it to 8mg a week early?

I would bump it up to 8mg, this is where you will really start to see some good effects.

 

[JonesLifts]

I've been on 10mg LGD/ED and 20mg mk-677 for 14 days, only results so far is increased hunger, has anyone tried anything by focused nutrition before? starting to wonder if this stuff is legit.

 

[DonnieM]

Opinions on bridging a 8 week LGD cycle into Halodrol? Got some OL Halo-100 staring at me.

 

[dcne02]

I've been on 10mg LGD/ED and 20mg mk-677 for 14 days, only results so far is increased hunger, has anyone tried anything by focused nutrition before? starting to wonder if this stuff is legit.

5 days in to FN MK at 10mg. Sleep has been awful so far, taking pre-bed. Hunger is starting to kick in now.

 

[BamBam0319]

Opinions on bridging a 8 week LGD cycle into Halodrol? Got some OL Halo-100 staring at me.

 

[yates84]

Opinions on bridging a 8 week LGD cycle into Halodrol? Got some OL Halo-100 staring at me.

I don't see a problem with that as long as support supps and pct are on point. Running 6 weeks of halo?

 

[DonnieM]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

I don't see a problem with that as long as support supps and pct are on point. Running 6 weeks of halo?

Okey cool! Have some cycle support on the way, pct will be 4-6 weeks nolva. Have aromasin on hand but I probably wont need it on Halo? Yeah I was thinking 6 weeks: 50/75/75/75/75/75. Because 4 or 5 weeks wont give much from what I've heard?

 

[yates84]

Okey cool! Have some cycle support on the way, pct will be 4-6 weeks nolva. Have aromasin on hand but I probably wont need it on Halo? Yeah I was thinking 6 weeks: 50/75/75/75/75/75. Because 4 or 5 weeks wont give much from what I've heard?

6 weeks is perfect, that's what I would do.

 

[YouBet33]

Can you run LGD at 4mg for 12 weeks or would it be better to run 6-8 weeks?

 

[YouBet33]

Can you run LGD at 4mg for 12 weeks or would it be better to run 6-8 weeks?

Nevermind I used this magic thing called Google

 

[smith_69]

Anamorelin - heres one your going to have to add to the list. saw a post on the forum and did a little reading- phase III and if/when it comes out for research, well it should be pretty interesting

 

[BlockBuilder]

Anamorelin - heres one your going to have to add to the list. saw a post on the forum and did a little reading- phase III and if/when it comes out for research, well it should be pretty interesting

Sounds amazing

 

[yates84]

Anamorelin - heres one your going to have to add to the list. saw a post on the forum and did a little reading- phase III and if/when it comes out for research, well it should be pretty interesting

Feel free to post any details you have about it.

 

[warpyfunch]

Anamorelin - heres one your going to have to add to the list. saw a post on the forum and did a little reading- phase III and if/when it comes out for research, well it should be pretty interesting

Feel free to post any details you have about it.

Not about anamorelin (ono7643) specifically, but a good read. Mentions it in the final section. Definitely sounds like it's at least as good as mk677 for our purposes, if not better.

https://juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/growth-hormone-secratogogues-specifically-mk-0677

edit to add:

Found this too... a little bit beyond me, but this references a competition assay that directly tested mk677 vs ono7643 for receptor binding affinity. Not sure I'm interpreting it right, but I think this means that when both compounds are administered, the ono7643 is favored? Anyone with more scientific background care to take a stab at this one?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248409/

For the competition assay, ANAM concentrations (1 pM–10 μM) were added to the membranes together with 35S-MK-677. Nonspecific binding was determined by adding 10 μM nonlabeled MK-677. The mixture was incubated at 30 °C for 60 min, followed by application of the samples to GF/B filters (Whatman), which had been pretreated with 0.5 % PEI for 60 min. The filters were subsequently washed in 0.9 % NaCl and counted using an OptiPhase counter (Wallac).

...

In the competition assay with radiolabeled ibutamoren (35S-MK-677; another ghrelin receptor agonist) ANAM was also found to bind with high affinity to the ghrelin receptor (IC50 = 0.69 nM). In rat pituitary cells incubated with ANAM, there was a dose-dependent stimulatory effect on GH release (Fig. 2c) and the potency (EC50) was 1.5 nM.

 

[dronkey]

5 days in to FN MK at 10mg. Sleep has been awful so far, taking pre-bed. Hunger is starting to kick in now.

It gets better. Give it a couple weeks

 

[yates84]

Not about anamorelin (ono7643) specifically, but a good read. Mentions it in the final section. Definitely sounds like it's at least as good as mk677 for our purposes, if not better.

https://juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/growth-hormone-secratogogues-specifically-mk-0677

edit to add:

Found this too... a little bit beyond me, but this references a competition assay that directly tested mk677 vs ono7643 for receptor binding affinity. Not sure I'm interpreting it right, but I think this means that when both compounds are administered, the ono7643 is favored? Anyone with more scientific background care to take a stab at this one?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92434/

Looks like they both bind with a high affinity so we might be able to draw the conclusion that they are both close in effectiveness.

 

[smith_69]

Not about anamorelin (ono7643) specifically, but a good read. Mentions it in the final section. Definitely sounds like it's at least as good as mk677 for our purposes, if not better.

https://juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/growth-hormone-secratogogues-specifically-mk-0677

edit to add:

Found this too... a little bit beyond me, but this references a competition assay that directly tested mk677 vs ono7643 for receptor binding affinity. Not sure I'm interpreting it right, but I think this means that when both compounds are administered, the ono7643 is favored? Anyone with more scientific background care to take a stab at this one?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK92434/

its very interesting read, almost like deciphering the Matrix!

heres a little more, to add onto dronk's link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248409/

 

[warpyfunch]

its very interesting read, almost like deciphering the Matrix!

heres a little more, to add onto dronk's link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4248409/

Haha whoops. That is actually the link I meant to include, and is the source of the quote. The one I included accidentally was from me trying to figure out how a competition assay works. Will fix. Thanks!

 

[smith_69]

lol-

 

[WAF]

They seem very similar, I wonder about water retention with it. Seems like i retain a lil more water on MK-677. I just emailed my source to ask if he has this on his plate for 2016. I'll let you guys know if I get confirmation or new of other sarms near future.

 

[warpyfunch]

They seem very similar, I wonder about water retention with it. Seems like i retain a lil more water on MK-677. I just emailed my source to ask if he has this on his plate for 2016. I'll let you guys know if I get confirmation or new of other sarms near future.

I came across a vague comment on reddit that anecdotally said there was less water retention on the anamorelin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/3v47az/using_ghrp6_for_competitive_eating/?

 

[WAF]

I came across a vague comment on reddit that anecdotally said there was less water retention on the anamorelin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDs/comments/3v47az/using_ghrp6_for_competitive_eating/?

I was hoping for this, thanks for the info. I'd personally it results were very similar go without the extra water depending on price etc. Now with less water retention joint improvement might not be same.

 

[bobi593]

hmmm this stuff is already dip in phase 3 ( didn't leaked outside like others during the phases ) which means pretty safe and ready to sell for big pharma companies , i will be very surprised if this compound hit the chemical research market , mk-677 under the anamorelin name if so , anamorelin in capsule form forget about this.http://www.biocentury.com/products/anamorelin

 

[smith_69]

if that is the case, using MK as a mask for Ana would be extremely shytie. 2 similar compounds but not the same. If Ana does get produce and the odds are it will be some sort of clone, I cant see Helsinn approving ABC PH company to copy this! lol

get ready because the post ?'s are coming- "anyone ever hear of Ana?" should i cycle this with creatine lol

at least we know about and they will all come- thats right and we own the info now

yea ok im done now

 

[smith_69]

im going on my 4th week of a LG cycle- 20mg/ml 30 ml liquid. I have read some of the logs here and so far to compare my experience with the logs that are posted, here is what I have

-the liquid hits faster- even doing 1/2 ml as this is twice as strong as pills and other liquid versions
-the hunger hit within the 3-4th day, always dose in the am same time- but if I went for a full 1 ml dose, it seemed to kill my appetite in the morning as apposed to the .5ml. afternoon hunger comes on strong
-only side at this time, regardless of the dose is a little dry mouth - but I am not sure if this is related to LG or because the weather has changed. baseboard heat in the house and at work, dries the shyt out of me-
-wgt has gone up started at 184 and now at 190 with a little more than a maintenance cal intake bf is down 1% 16
next 4 weeks will increase the cal intake

strength - well I can say w/o a doubt that it has gone up. for example
behind the head single arm db tri press set is as follows
stretch, warm up with 20 x20; then 10x40 10x 45 10 x 50 8x 55- hand placement is dead center of the db

-endurance- I would normally wait for a min between sets maybe a little longer- always stretch the muscle after a set, but after the 4th day, I just feel as I don't need to wait more than 30 sec and just want to go

- pumps doing shoulders, back and especially traps- fyck me- calves and forearms, everything, I can compare it to if you took a 2 or 3 week brake and come back, you have the pump for hours, that is what its like. guess this will also depend on your training and movements

-DOMS- still there but not as bad, def improvement while using LG

-mood- I notice there are sometimes that I can get a little snappy, not rage, just short. however there are more times that I feel focused in on things and on point.

just using LGd- and have now- today first time using- chuck diesel "dieselade BCAA"

might include laxo on this for the next 4 weeks, but overall I am impressed

 

[dronkey]

I'm about 4 weeks into my 8mg LGD / 20mg MK-677 cycle and I'm using a base of dermacrine and epiandro, I'm combating the lethargy fine and my libido is high....my young dick does not seem to be working properly. The first time I screwed my girl yesterday, it took me forever to nut and the second time I wasn't able to nut at all and could barely keep it up halfway through.

Any idea what's going on? I looked into getting some dermatr3st as a base but that sh!t is sold out everywhere and I know it's discontinued. This is a pretty big issue - I don't want to have to cut the cycle early

 

[smith_69]

I'm about 4 weeks into my 8mg LGD / 20mg MK-677 cycle and I'm using a base of dermacrine and epiandro, I'm combating the lethargy fine and my libido is high....my young dick does not seem to be working properly. The first time I screwed my girl yesterday, it took me forever to nut and the second time I wasn't able to nut at all and could barely keep it up halfway through.

Any idea what's going on? I looked into getting some dermatr3st as a base but that sh!t is sold out everywhere and I know it's discontinued. This is a pretty big issue - I don't want to have to cut the cycle early

you could have Cortisol issues my man

 

[dronkey]

you could have Cortisol issues my man

Hmm, I had never considered this as a possibility. I AM training westside and continued to train/max out while I had the flu - I got a cold sore recently which certainly suggests that I've been putting too much stress on my body. My previous best 10RM deadlift was somewhere around 335 and I hit 2x10 of 365 on Thursday - even though I was about to throw up halfway through.

I'll look into some cortisol control. Any suggestions?

 

[smith_69]

Hmm, I had never considered this as a possibility. I AM training westside and continued to train/max out while I had the flu - I got a cold sore recently which certainly suggests that I've been putting too much stress on my body. My previous best 10RM deadlift was somewhere around 335 and I hit 2x10 of 365 on Thursday - even though I was about to throw up halfway through.

I'll look into some cortisol control. Any suggestions?

this one can go a lot of ways here, but vit C, b; higher amounts of B5 over B6 & B12 but a good complex is fine and omega 3's are helpful. as far as what is the name of product X that will do this, hate to get into a well this one is better than that one. imo, good daily vit with the above add in C and the omega's