SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[datsthat]

Another question from my buddy. He next cycle is LeGenD and wants to know
(a) if he can use HCG as a test base instead of dermacrine?
(b) is dermacrine the recommended test base for LGD?
(c) what else can he use for a test base other than orals and dermacrine and acutal testosterone?

Thanks

 

[WAF]

Another question from my buddy. He next cycle is LeGenD and wants to know
(a) if he can use HCG as a test base instead of dermacrine?
(b) is dermacrine the recommended test base for LGD?
(c) what else can he use for a test base other than orals and dermacrine and acutal testosterone?

Thanks

a) You can use HCG on cycle as too not have a big rebound on pct. I've done this with success, but it won't replace the test.
b) Not sure if Dermacrine is recommended (personally never ran it yet), but I've read other logs with success with it. Ancillary test is required though on LGD too make the best of it.
c) i'm assuming your looking for a topical then?

Correct me if anything is incorrect gurus.

 

[yates84]

Another question from my buddy. He next cycle is LeGenD and wants to know
(a) if he can use HCG as a test base instead of dermacrine?
(b) is dermacrine the recommended test base for LGD?
(c) what else can he use for a test base other than orals and dermacrine and acutal testosterone?

Thanks

Dermacrine is good but 4 andro, epiandro, and trest can also be used as a base. Just depends on personal preference. HCG definitely won't provide a "base"

 

[datsthat]

a) You can use HCG on cycle as too not have a big rebound on pct. I've done this with success, but it won't replace the test.
b) Not sure if Dermacrine is recommended (personally never ran it yet), but I've read other logs with success with it. Ancillary test is required though on LGD too make the best of it.
c) i'm assuming your looking for a topical then?

Correct me if anything is incorrect gurus.

thank you.

a) So HCG alone isn't enough for LGD cycle?
b) my buddy doesn't want to go to the dark side completely yet so he prefers not to use test cyp/ent/prop
c) yes, topical because he doesn't want to use 2 orals even though LGD isn't really an oral. BUT he would rather use another oral instead of test cyp/ent/prop


I am sure others will respond shortly.

 

[datsthat]

Dermacrine is good but 4 andro, epiandro, and trest can also be used as a base. Just depends on personal preference. HCG definitely won't provide a "base"

Thank you sensei yates84. would Ar1macare Pro be sufficient for either 4 andro, epiandro, or trest plus LGD?

 

[yates84]

Thank you sensei yates84. would Ar1macare Pro be sufficient for either 4 andro, epiandro, or trest plus LGD?

Definitely will have you covered but don't forget about a pharma ai if you use trest.

 

[fro60ol]

Thank you sensei yates84. would Ar1macare Pro be sufficient for either 4 andro, epiandro, or trest plus LGD?

Using ar1macare pro right now for trest rad and osta So far so good no issues at all

 

[WAF]

thank you.

a) So HCG alone isn't enough for LGD cycle?
b) my buddy doesn't want to go to the dark side completely yet so he prefers not to use test cyp/ent/prop
c) yes, topical because he doesn't want to use 2 orals even though LGD isn't really an oral. BUT he would rather use another oral instead of test cyp/ent/prop


I am sure others will respond shortly.

a) Yah HCG doesn't work like that unfortunately.
b)Ok, soon enough...left hand wave "this is the Test your looking for"
c) Only reason I can see not taking 2 orals is because of toxicity. Your friend should have no issues running any of the orals stated by yates84


Main thing is tell your friend to do as much research as possible before he starts anything and gets all bases covered just incase any sides. Start small on dosage and work up with experience.

 

[Dragoninho]

I found that Epiandro och Dermacrine was really good with LGD.

I think Trest would be a really nice stack with LGD as well. I would run HCG with this though, I got pretty supressed by LGD and my recovery was quite tough.
But the cycle will probably be a nice run. ��

 

[HardB0iled]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Does anyone notice a difference in nipple sensitivity between capped tr4st and dermatr3st? Since starting dermatr3st (.5 ml morning and night) along with 50 mg capped PWO, the sensitivity has just about gone away.

Edit: i've still yet to start an AI.

 

[Anonymouss]

I've got all kinds of suggestions, gotta find a few minutes to type all of this out.

Edit:
1) not smart at all, especially as a new user that has no clue how your body will react to these compounds.
2)torem is a serm just like nolva/clomid. It will help restart the hpta and super pct will help. Read my pct thread, it will help you plan your pct.
3) always have exemestane on hand, armistane will do nothing for high estrogen sides.
4) this is user dependant. Use a serm and do a proper pct and you should recover fine.
I don't really like your cycle setup, rad is too long and lgd is too short. Try:
Rad 8/8/12/12
Lgd 8/8/8/8/12/12/12/12

Hey, thanks for your input. Did a lot of research, including your pointers about on-cycle / PCT.

What do you think? GW 501516 is that way because its being used before this starts as well.

MK2866
15/20/25/30/30/30/30/30/00/00/00/00 mg ED
LGD4033
04/08/12/12/12/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
RAD140
00/00/00/00/06/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
GW501516
05/05/00/00/00/00/05/05/10/10/10/10 mg ED
Exem3stane
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/15/15 mg ED
Tam0xifen
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/30/30/25/00 mg ED
HCG
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 servings ED
Anastr0zole
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 mg ED

 

[yates84]

Hey, thanks for your input. Did a lot of research, including your pointers about on-cycle / PCT.

What do you think? GW 501516 is that way because its being used before this starts as well.

MK2866
15/15/15/15/20/20/20/20/00/00/00/00 mg ED
LGD4033
04/08/12/12/12/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
RAD140
6/12/12/12/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00 mg ED
GW501516
05/05/00/00/00/00/05/05/10/10/10/10 mg ED
Exem3stane
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/15/15 mg ED
Tam0xifen
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/10/00 mg ED

I switched it up a little. HCG isn't necessary and neither is adex on cycle. It's smart to have an ai on hand but no reason to use one unecessarily. Osta is great at 15 to 20mg, I don't see a need for any more especially with all the other sarms you have working. Rad kicks in quick so I moved that to the front of your cycle, it will be your kicker. Also dropped the nolva dose down to what is normally dosed.

 

[cheeky1]

Hey, thanks for your input. Did a lot of research, including your pointers about on-cycle / PCT.

What do you think? GW 501516 is that way because its being used before this starts as well.

MK2866
15/20/25/30/30/30/30/30/00/00/00/00 mg ED
LGD4033
04/08/12/12/12/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
RAD140
00/00/00/00/06/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
GW501516
05/05/00/00/00/00/05/05/10/10/10/10 mg ED
Exem3stane
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/15/15 mg ED
Tam0xifen
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/30/30/25/00 mg ED
HCG
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 servings ED
Anastr0zole
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 mg ED

Sh!t dude, i'm not touching this one. You may want to provide a little bit more background info as to previous cycles, known health issues (BP etc), history of gyno & or current estrogen levels. There's a LOT going on in this post...

 

[AustBenny]

I'm with Cheeky on this.

And if you've got all that ancillary and PCT on hand, why not just do a 12 week test cycle and get some real gains?

 

[Anonymouss]

I switched it up a little. HCG isn't necessary and neither is adex on cycle. It's smart to have an ai on hand but no reason to use one unecessarily. Osta is great at 15 to 20mg, I don't see a need for any more especially with all the other sarms you have working. Rad kicks in quick so I moved that to the front of your cycle, it will be your kicker. Also dropped the n0lva dose down to what is normally dosed.

Sorry, HCG was HCGen3rate (on-cycle shutdown prevention, supposedly) - not the hormone.

I did read that Adex isn't necessarily but prefer it just in case, couple wasted bucks is no bigie.

Based on your advice, going with:

MK2866
15/15/15/15/20/20/20/20/00/00/00/00 mg ED
LGD4033
04/08/12/12/12/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
RAD140
6/12/12/12/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00 mg ED
GW501516
05/05/00/00/00/00/05/05/10/10/10/10 mg ED
Exem3stane
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/15/15 mg ED
Tam0xifen
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/10/00 mg ED
HCGen3rate
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 servings ED
Anastr0zole
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 mg ED

Thank you so much for your input and quick turnaround!

A rat would take everything in this list orally, yeah?

No pins / needles was a major sticking point

 

[BamBam0319]

HCGenerate sux bawlz

 

[Anonymouss]

HCGen3rate sux bawlz

Do you suggest just the active ingredient (fenuwhatever), something else, or to not bother at all?

There will be no test base

 

[yates84]

Sorry, HCG was HCGen3rate (on-cycle shutdown prevention, supposedly) - not the hormone.

I did read that Adex isn't necessarily but prefer it just in case, couple wasted bucks is no bigie.

Based on your advice, going with:

MK2866
15/15/15/15/20/20/20/20/00/00/00/00 mg ED
LGD4033
04/08/12/12/12/12/12/12/00/00/00/00 mg ED
RAD140
6/12/12/12/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00 mg ED
GW501516
05/05/00/00/00/00/05/05/10/10/10/10 mg ED
Exem3stane
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/15/15 mg ED
Tam0xifen
00/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/20/20/10/00 mg ED
HCGen3rate
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 servings ED
Anastr0zole
.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/.5/00/00/00/00 mg ED

Thank you so much for your input and quick turnaround!

A rat would take everything in this list orally, yeah?

No pins / needles was a major sticking point

Yep, all of this is oral. Adex is great to have on hand, the wasted $$ was on the hcgenerate. Definitely won't prevent shutdown.

 

[Anonymouss]

Yep, all of this is oral. Adex is great to have on hand, the wasted $$ was on the hcgenerate. Definitely won't prevent shutdown.

Great, killed the HCGen3rate - going to rat trial the rest. PM me your paypal? I'd like to donate for your help!

It's invaluable to have such quick feedback from someone experienced with the matter, thanks again.

 

[yates84]

Great, killed the HCGen3rate - going to rat trial the rest. PM me your paypal? I'd like to donate for your help!

It's invaluable to have such quick feedback from someone experienced with the matter, thanks again.

Not necessary my friend but I do appreciate the offer

 

[BamBam0319]

Do you suggest just the active ingredient (fenuwhatever), something else, or to not bother at all?

There will be no test base

Yeah, as Yates said, HCGenerate is a waste of money. You can find its ingredients elsewhere for much much cheaper, and it still won't prevent shutdown. Might help you recover in pct though.

 

[Toren]

Do you suggest just the active ingredient (fenuwhatever), something else, or to not bother at all?

There will be no test base

Running 3 supressive SARMs without a 'Test' base is not a good idea. I suggest you find yourself some Dermacrine, 4-Andro or EpiAndro.

Also, as Yates said. you should not use the AI on cycle unless you need to. There are guys out there running 500+mg of Test and using less Anastrazole than you are using. Having it on hand is great. Using it just because you have it on hand is not necessary.

I'd also consider dropping the LGD or the Ostarine as they are doing the same thing. You are not really going to increase your gains but you may very well increase your sides.

I wish you the best of success though.

 

[yates84]

Running 3 supressive SARMs without a 'Test' base is not a good idea. I suggest you find yourself some Dermacrine, 4-Andro or EpiAndro.

Also, as Yates said. you should not use the AI on cycle unless you need to. There are guys out there running 500+mg of Test and using less Anastrazole than you are using. Having it on hand is great. Using it just because you have it on hand is not necessary.

I'd also consider dropping the LGD or the Ostarine as they are doing the same thing. You are not really going to increase your gains but you may very well increase your sides.

I wish you the best of success though.

Definitely agree a test base is a great idea.

 

[Anonymouss]

Couple more questions I suppose, trying to keep this from going out into too many tangents...

The point of SARM without AAS was to not wreck my HPTA, I'm reading that even if test is gone restart is a lot easier since FSH/LH is still there - is this valid information and would a test base not be extremely counter-productive for that?

If a test base was ran, would Anastraz0le (as necessary) on-cycle followed by Exem3stane / Tam0xifen PCT still be valid?

The disadvantage of a test base would be HPTA shutdown if I understand, what would be the advantage?

 

[AustBenny]

The advantage will be that your d1ck will still work while you're on cycle.

 

[BamBam0319]

You're gonna be shut down by the SARMs anyway

 

[YouBet33]

The advantage will be that your d1ck will still work while you're on cycle.

And that is always a good advantage

 

[yates84]

Couple more questions I suppose, trying to keep this from going out into too many tangents...

The point of SARM without AAS was to not wreck my HPTA, I'm reading that even if test is gone restart is a lot easier since FSH/LH is still there - is this valid information and would a test base not be extremely counter-productive for that?

If a test base was ran, would Anastraz0le (as necessary) on-cycle followed by Exem3stane / Tam0xifen PCT still be valid?

The disadvantage of a test base would be HPTA shutdown if I understand, what would be the advantage?

A test base doesn't have to be actual testosterone. You can use something like dermacrine that will have minimal hpta effect but still keep your energy and libido up on cycle.

 

[Toren]

Couple more questions I suppose, trying to keep this from going out into too many tangents...

The point of SARM without AAS was to not wreck my HPTA, I'm reading that even if test is gone restart is a lot easier since FSH/LH is still there - is this valid information and would a test base not be extremely counter-productive for that?

If a test base was ran, would Anastraz0le (as necessary) on-cycle followed by Exem3stane / Tam0xifen PCT still be valid?

The disadvantage of a test base would be HPTA shutdown if I understand, what would be the advantage?

SARM's are known to be less supressive than some more traditional AAS, yes. However, when you are stacking 3 SARMs and running for 8 weeks, you have thrown most of that out the window. You will be supressed! The 'Test' bases I mentioned should not be an issue. Increased shoutdown from the bases I mentioned is a non-factor. Dermacrine is a great mild base and would really shine when stacked with EpiAndro or 4-Andro.

Same thing applies here. Only use the AI if you experience negative estrogenic side-effects. The bases I mentioned either don't aromtize or don't to any great degree. You can keep your PCT the same. A typical Nolva PCT should work great. You can add a LOW dose of Exemestane into the mix if you wish.

The most supressive thing you will be running here is a triple-SARM stack. The bases are barely an afterthought at this point. They will keep you functioning properly and from feeling like crap on cycle. They will also keep your pecil functioning properly on cycle while you are supressed!

 

[dronkey]

Couple more questions I suppose, trying to keep this from going out into too many tangents...

The point of SARM without AAS was to not wreck my HPTA, I'm reading that even if test is gone restart is a lot easier since FSH/LH is still there - is this valid information and would a test base not be extremely counter-productive for that?

If a test base was ran, would Anastraz0le (as necessary) on-cycle followed by Exem3stane / Tam0xifen PCT still be valid?

The disadvantage of a test base would be HPTA shutdown if I understand, what would be the advantage?

Can we talk about why you are running all 3 sarms? What is your goal here that can't be achieved with just lgd?

 

[YouBet33]

Just gonna rant a lil right now, I coach high school football. Go into our weight room today and my starting linebacker comes up to me saying I'm really feeling stronger got on this stack from "complete" nutrition. I asked him what is was....."I don't know really, my dad tried to look up the products but couldn't find anything". So I asked him to send me pictures of all labels. Complete nutrition sold a 17 year old kid LGD....sorry but that company is ****ing bull****, tried to convince him not to take it due to being shut down and he did zero research on what he was putting into his body. He didn't care, this is why we can't have nice things! End of rant, sorry just really pisses me off.

 

[Anonymouss]

Can we talk about why you are running all 3 sarms? What is your goal here that can't be achieved with just lgd?

Running 3 sarms because Osta/LGD seems to be a very common stack and RAD has anabolic effects while minimizing androgenic ones - this seems desirable. Sounds like swapping out Osta for Dermacrine will be an overall improvement then?

 

[AustBenny]

Osta/LGD is NOT a common stack. Not synergistic at all. That's been asked a thousand times in this thread and bunked EVERY time by yates84.

Is this your first cycle of anything? You are WAY overcomplicating things to the point where it's absurd.

 

[Anonymouss]

I'm familiar with old school cycles, SARMs are just a completely alien planet to me.

Dermacrine is a great mild base and would really shine when stacked with EpiAndro or 4-Andro.

Tri-Dermal by Primeval Labs sounds extremely similar to what you're talking about (contents below).

Serving Size: 1 ml (1/2 pump)
50mg 3a-hydroxy-5a-androstan-17-one
50mg 4-androstene 3b-ol, 17-one
75mg 3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol-one

Will replacing Osta with the above address the shortcomings you guys brought up?

That'd make the stack Tri-Dermal + LGD/RAD/GW and basic AI/SERMs

 

[AustBenny]

I would run Osta OR LGD and a Dermacrine base. Done and done. Save the other stuff for another time. Your GW dose is not even worth it.

 

[AustBenny]

The sooner SARMs disappear and this thread dies the better.

Sorry yates84 but it's true lol.

 

[Toren]

I'm familiar with old school cycles, SARMs are just a completely alien planet to me.



Tri-Dermal by Primeval Labs sounds extremely similar to what you're talking about (contents below).

Serving Size: 1 ml (1/2 pump)
50mg 3a-hydroxy-5a-androstan-17-one
50mg 4-androstene 3b-ol, 17-one
75mg 3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol-one

Will replacing Osta with the above address the shortcomings you guys brought up?

That'd make the stack Tri-Dermal + LGD/RAD/GW and basic AI/SERMs

I think you are over-complicating things. The Tri-Dermal is a good 3 Prohormone stack but is unnecessary and not the best option for a base; Not to mention it has 1-Andro in it which can add to lethargy.

Keep it simple. Dermacrine - start @ 2 pumps ED and adjust up as needed or...4-Andro - start @ 200mg ED and adjust up as needed or...EpiAndro - start @ 300mg ED and adjust up as needed. Pick one and enjoy. I'd recommend Dermacrine; It has never done me wrong.

 

[Dma378]

Just gonna rant a lil right now, I coach high school football. Go into our weight room today and my starting linebacker comes up to me saying I'm really feeling stronger got on this stack from "complete" nutrition. I asked him what is was....."I don't know really, my dad tried to look up the products but couldn't find anything". So I asked him to send me pictures of all labels. Complete nutrition sold a 17 year old kid LGD....sorry but that company is ****ing bull****, tried to convince him not to take it due to being shut down and he did zero research on what he was putting into his body. He didn't care, this is why we can't have nice things! End of rant, sorry just really pisses me off.

Wow

 

[AustBenny]

Lol, well, so some 17yo kid in a store who probably doesn't know anything and earns minimum wage sold another 17yo kid who also doesn't know anything a bottle of LGD. Surprise surprise.

 

[YouBet33]

Lol, well, so some 17yo kid in a store who probably doesn't know anything and earns minimum wage sold another 17yo kid who also doesn't know anything a bottle of LGD. Surprise surprise.

Exactly!

 

[AustBenny]

Don't you think your rage is a little misplaced then?

Maybe YOU as a high school coach should be educating your players?

 

[AustBenny]

Scrutinizing and approving their supplement use?

 

[YouBet33]

Don't you think your rage is a little misplaced then?

Maybe YOU as a high school coach should be educating your players?

I did educate him and he didn't give a ****

 

[NewAgeMayan]

The sooner SARMs disappear and this thread dies the better.

Sorry yates84 but it's true lol.

Oh hey, woah, woah, that cray cray talk.

 

[AustBenny]

I did educate him and he didn't give a ****

Then why care or be outraged? You took the time, he doesn't care.

People seem to expect ethics in an industry which is one of the most unethical "legal" industries ever. I've seen more transparency and ethics in narcotics dealers.

 

[YouBet33]

Then why care or be outraged? You took the time, he doesn't care.

People seem to expect ethics in an industry which is one of the most unethical "legal" industries ever. I've seen more transparency and ethics in narcotics dealers.

I agree with what you are saying! And you bring up a great point, just don't want a kid to screw his **** up haha but you are right. If he's gonna do it anyway, I guess I just wanted him to do some research on it the decide. Not base it off what some guy said at complete nutrition.

 

[BamBam0319]

I did educate him and he didn't give a ****

Isn't there a rule somewhere about how you can't use PEDs in high school sports? Why don't you just suspend him from the team?

 

[AustBenny]

Isn't there a rule somewhere about how you can't use PEDs in high school sports? Why don't you just suspend him from the team?

Starting linebacker - probably not THAT outraged bahahaha.

 

[yates84]

The sooner SARMs disappear and this thread dies the better.

Sorry yates84 but it's true lol.

Why is that? Seems like you enjoy posting in this thread just as much as everyone else.

 

[Bigdumogre]

This thread is like a roller coaster