SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[Weathermark]

Is dermatren discontinued? If so, anything similar to it still available?

 

[Joedoubledose]

Is dermatren discontinued? If so, anything similar to it still available?

who knows what the future holds....

 

[Hastur]

Hey guys! I just wanted to share this here. I hooked my best friend up with a bottle of Radar1ne, he lifts 3x a week, is using no other supplements and no performance enhancers of any kind. He is taking progress pics on Radar1ne, here are his results from just 7 days at 4mg per day.

View attachment 122982

In both pictures he is 190lbs. He is not dieting either, he eats whatever he sees. He is a huge fan.

 

[mixedup]

Hey guys! I just wanted to share this here. I hooked my best friend up with a bottle of Radar1ne, he lifts 3x a week, is using no other supplements and no performance enhancers of any kind. He is taking progress pics on Radar1ne, here are his results from just 7 days at 4mg per day.

View attachment 122982

In both pictures he is 190lbs. He is not dieting either, he eats whatever he sees. He is a huge fan.

Whoa noticeable difference in abs

 

[kboxer7]

Hey guys! I just wanted to share this here. I hooked my best friend up with a bottle of Radar1ne, he lifts 3x a week, is using no other supplements and no performance enhancers of any kind. He is taking progress pics on Radar1ne, here are his results from just 7 days at 4mg per day.

View attachment 122982

In both pictures he is 190lbs. He is not dieting either, he eats whatever he sees. He is a huge fan.

That is impressive!

 

[CJNator]

You know me I run a ton of wet compounds more than most I know jd tested it for brundel and I know what he was running. But trest just hits me extremely hard maybe because it converts to methyl estrogen

I guess I should tread lightly with Trest just incase, if anything ill get both, start letrone and keep extremastane just incase.

You gonna jump straight in at 2cap?

Im actually on 2 caps rights now, 3 caps started irritating my joints.

 

[hamdysayed]

Hey guys! I just wanted to share this here. I hooked my best friend up with a bottle of Radar1ne, he lifts 3x a week, is using no other supplements and no performance enhancers of any kind. He is taking progress pics on Radar1ne, here are his results from just 7 days at 4mg per day.

View attachment 122982

In both pictures he is 190lbs. He is not dieting either, he eats whatever he sees. He is a huge fan.

Hmm 7 days, not to sound like a sleptical but that's tough to believe cos it's very noticing in chest and abs....

 

[yates84]

Hmm 7 days, not to sound like a sleptical but that's tough to believe cos it's very noticing in chest and abs....

Are these common results? Probably not. Are they really after only 7 days on radarine at 4mg? Yes it absolutely is.

 

[jbryand101b]

Honestly we had the supressive debate and conclusion was supressed is supressed once your shut down that's it especially if you do a long enough run if a so called mild compound will shut you down the same

Suppression of lh output to a degree the testicles become desensitized to the effects is different than suppressed but not enough to do so.

 

[hamdysayed]

Are these common results? Probably not. Are they really after only 7 days on radarine at 4mg? Yes it absolutely is.

Sorry for messed up Grammer stupid phone.
This is impressive guys , he went from barely looking like he workout to looking some what decent in 7 days. ... well I need to learn more about rad.

 

[chedapalooza]

That is mighty impressive.

 

[Hastur]

Sorry for messed up Grammer stupid phone.
This is impressive guys , he went from barely looking like he workout to looking some what decent in 7 days. ... well I need to learn more about rad.

Barely looking like he worked out to somewhat decent? He has lifted for 8 years, and has been natural the entire time. Radar1ne is the first AR agonist he has ever taken. I would say at 5'10", 190lbs, he looks good for those stats. Maybe I'm biased since he's my best friend and lifting partner, but I have to defend the guy here.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Is there any data on rad impacting bf? I only ask because lgd had nothing in this regard yet some anecdotal reports suggest it does.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Hmm 7 days, not to sound like a sleptical but that's tough to believe cos it's very noticing in chest and abs....

I doubt there is much change tbh, its the lighting mostly.

 

[Hastur]

Is there any data on rad impacting bf? I only ask because lgd had nothing in this regard yet some anecdotal reports suggest it does.

None that I know of, in fact I believe the studies in mice showed no changes in body fat despite increased lean body mass. I would say its anecdotally a different story for resistance training young men. Myself, my friend in the photo, and my cousin have all noticed a recomping effect. I'm sure preferential nutrient storage due to enhanced AR agonism is at play to an extent, like with all compounds that agonize the AR.

 

[Hastur]

I doubt there is much change tbh, its the lighting mostly.

I've seen him in the sauna post-work, he does in fact look different as the photo shows. The definition is his midsection is undeniable in person.

 

[hamdysayed]

Barely looking like he worked out to somewhat decent? He has lifted for 8 years, and has been natural the entire time. Radar1ne is the first AR agonist he has ever taken. I would say at 5'10", 190lbs, he looks good for those stats. Maybe I'm biased since he's my best friend and lifting partner, but I have to defend the guy here.

sorry if u took it the wrong way, but after 8 years of lifting being natty too I looked pretty big , and body was more defined than ever ur friends look like he is in his 1st couple of years of workout,anyways it's impressive change,
And @noaddedhormones bro his midsection look different for sure.

 

[Joedoubledose]

The sad thing is photos aren't allways the best scale to judge on , in person is allways the best comparison over time

 

[T-Bone]

The sad thing is photos aren't allways the best scale to judge on , in person is allways the best comparison over time

Yes, this is why I dis-regard all before and after pictures. Well also after watching the before and after part in Bigger, Stronger, Faster,



In fact, I have pictures turned off in my options for AM.

 

[StanleyG]

Suppression of lh output to a degree the testicles become desensitized to the effects is different than suppressed but not enough to do so.

You wanna expand upon this because as it is written it does not make any sense.
Leydig cell desensitization is most often associated with over stimulation of the leydig cells (ie taking too much hcg). Suppression of LH does not result in Leydig cell (or testicle as you put it) desensitization. That being said this means that degree off suppression has no correlation with leydig cell desensitization. This is why even after a long shut down (without hcg use) the leydig cells will respond to say hcg therapy, because LH deprivation does not result in their desensitization.

 

[Hastur]

sorry if u took it the wrong way, but after 8 years of lifting being natty too I looked pretty big , and body was more defined than ever ur friends look like he is in his 1st couple of years of workout,anyways it's impressive change,
And @noaddedhormones bro his midsection look different for sure.

The sad thing is photos aren't allways the best scale to judge on , in person is allways the best comparison over time

Yes, this is why I dis-regard all before and after pictures. Well also after watching the before and after part in Bigger, Stronger, Faster,



In fact, I have pictures turned off in my options for AM.

Feel free to disregard the photo, or criticize the progress he has made in his time lifting, I was merely sharing one man's experience with Radar1ne. I personally think it's impressive. I have seen him in person, the photo reflects his real-life change in appearance, and he is very happy with his results. And in the end, that's what this is all about. He chose something to help him achieve his goals, it appears to be doing so, and he is happy as a result. He will continue to run his Radar1ne cycle, and hopefully continue to see progress that makes him happy.

 

[T-Bone]

Feel free to disregard the photo, or criticize the progress he has made in his time lifting, I was merely sharing one man's experience with Radar1ne. I personally think it's impressive. I have seen him in person, the photo reflects his real-life change in appearance, and he is very happy with his results. And in the end, that's what this is all about. He chose something to help him achieve his goals, it appears to be doing so, and he is happy as a result. He will continue to run his Radar1ne cycle, and hopefully continue to see progress that makes him happy.

My post was meant to be a generalization, not an attack on your friend. I didn't even look at the pictures. If your buddie made great progress on RAD, then that is awesome for him and I'm happy about that. I've not tried it yet but plan to in the future when I get more bottles together. I was gonna get more this month, but TREST was re-released so I had to prioritize.

 

[Hastur]

My post was meant to be a generalization, not an attack on your friend. I didn't even look at the pictures. If your buddie made great progress on RAD, then that is awesome for him and I'm happy about that. I've not tried it yet but plan to in the future when I get more bottles together. I was gonna get more this month, but TREST was re-released so I had to prioritize.

Oh, I didn't take your post that way, T-Bone! I just wanted to respond to all the posts at once. Not taken as an attack at all, buddy! In fact, I agree that photos aren't always telling. So I can understand not putting much stock into them. I just wanted to share his progress, for those who were interested. I do appreciate you posting that though, and making the positive statements in your post. I think you will enjoy Radar1ne if you choose to run it in the future, all the people in my personal life who are using it have not been disappointed. And we're on the same page with the Trest release, I intended to stock up on other things for my next cycle, but Trest is too temping.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Oh brett it wasn't trying to dismiss him, I think by the picture he has made progress . It's just like me I can post a picture of me before and after my cycle and I've gained 12lbs so far yet I see the changes in the mirror better then someone does looking at a photo ya know what I mean ?

 

[cubs1987]

I've seen him in the sauna post-work, he does in fact look different as the photo shows. The definition is his midsection is undeniable in person.

what is your friend running for support and more importantly PCT?

 

[Hastur]

Oh brett it wasn't trying to dismiss him, I think by the picture he has made progress . It's just like me I can post a picture of me before and after my cycle and I've gained 12lbs so far yet I see the changes in the mirror better then someone does looking at a photo ya know what I mean ?

Man, my response was off the mark! It was not intended to make it seem like you or T-Bone were dismissing anything or putting him down, I just wanted to address the 3 similar sentiments in one post. I was being lazy in my response, haha. I can absolutely see people disagreeing with a photo being evidence, so I thought I would say it's fine to dismiss it if people wish. No ill-will whatsoever! Just from talking within UK I know you aren't that kind of guy either, Joe. And on your personal note, I understand what you're saying as well. I've gained 9lbs on my cycle, been staying at this weight but visually appearing to recomp in the mirror, though others may not see it like I do. But from your log, I can see from the details your progress.

 

[Hastur]

what is your friend running for support and more importantly PCT?

No support, it's not methylated, not shown to be liver toxic, his blood pressure hasn't changed at all. It's not like he is running a PH or DS and needs cycle support. PCT will be Sup3r PCT and Liquid Toremifene. Just like myself.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Man, my response was off the mark! It was not intended to make it seem like you or T-Bone were dismissing anything or putting him down, I just wanted to address the 3 similar sentiments in one post. I was being lazy in my response, haha. I can absolutely see people disagreeing with a photo being evidence, so I thought I would say it's fine to dismiss it if people wish. No ill-will whatsoever! Just from talking within UK I know you aren't that kind of guy either, Joe. And on your personal note, I understand what you're saying as well. I've gained 9lbs on my cycle, been staying at this weight but visually appearing to recomp in the mirror, though others may not see it like I do. But from your log, I can see from the details your progress.

It's all good brett ! I don't think me or tbone were offended , we're all on this forum to discuss and learn , I never take anything to heart on here. It's All constructive criticism

 

[Hastur]

It's all good brett ! I don't think me or tbone were offended , we're all on this forum to discuss and learn , I never take anything to heart on here. It's All constructive criticism

Well said, buddy! So back to the topics at hand, I'm seeing a lot of Trest love, anyone planning on running a RAD/Trest cycle?

 

[hamdysayed]

Hastur.
ur friend 7 days progress was impressive.
Ppl was kinda shocked/ Noone disregarded it.please keep is posted with more pic of progress

 

[ZackD89]

Is Arimidex a good enough AI for Dermatrest? See a lot of mentions of Exemestane, but none for Adex. I have a few bottles of Adex so I'd prefer to use it.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Is Arimidex a good enough AI for Dermatrest? See a lot of mentions of Exemestane, but none for Adex. I have a few bottles of Adex so I'd prefer to use it.

I personally would want to be killing the aromatase not competitively binding to it. Go a suicidal AI.

 

[jbryand101b]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

You wanna expand upon this because as it is written it does not make any sense.
Leydig cell desensitization is most often associated with over stimulation of the leydig cells (ie taking too much hcg). Suppression of LH does not result in Leydig cell (or testicle as you put it) desensitization. That being said this means that degree off suppression has no correlation with leydig cell desensitization. This is why even after a long shut down (without hcg use) the leydig cells will respond to say hcg therapy, because LH deprivation does not result in their desensitization.

Just going off what dr mike scaly talks about for his power pct plan. You can shoot him an email if you wish to debate him.
When HCG is taken for too long or too high of a dosage, it can desensitize the lh receptor, according to the hormonal restoration doctor.

Understanding Post Cycle “T” Recovery By William Llewellyn
[...]
In this article I would therefore like to discuss the role of anti-estrogens and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during this delicate window of time, while detailing an effective strategy for their use.

The Axis

The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis, or HPTA for short, is the thermostat for your body’s natural production of testosterone. Too much testosterone and the furnace will shut off. Not enough, and the heat is turned up, to put it very simply. For the purposes of our discussion here we can look at this regulating process as having three levels. At the top is the hypothalamic region of the brain, which releases the hormone GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone) when it senses a need for more testosterone. GnRH sends a signal to the second level of the axis, the pituitary, which releases Luteinizing Hormone in response. LH for short, this hormone stimulates the testes (level three) to secrete testosterone. The same sex steroids (testosterone, estrogen) that are produced serve to counter-balance things, by providing negative feedback signals (primarily to the hypothalamus and pituitary) to lower the secretion of testosterone when too much of this hormone is sensed. Synthetic steroids, of course, suppress testosterone the same way. This quick background of the testosterone-regulating axis is necessary to furthering our discussion, as we need to first look at the underlying mechanisms involved before we can understand why natural recovery of the HPTA post-cycle is a slow process. Only then can we implement an ancillary drug program to effectively deal with it.

Testicular Desensitization

Although steroids suppress testosterone production primarily by lowering the level of gonadotropic hormones discussed above, the big roadblock to a restored HPTA after we come off the drugs is surprisingly not the level of LH itself. This problem is made clearly evident in a study published in Acta Endocrinologica back in 1975(1). Here blood parameters, including testosterone and LH levels, were monitored in male subjects whom were given testosterone enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks. Subjects remained under investigation for an additional 18 weeks after the drug was discontinued. At the start of the study, LH levels became suppressed in direct relation to the rise in testosterone, which is to be expected. Things looked very different, however, once the steroids had been withdrawn (see Figure I). LH levels went on the rise quickly (by the 3rd week), while testosterone barely budged for quite some time. In fact, on average it was more than 10 weeks before any noticeable movement started. This lack of correlation makes clear that the problem in getting androgen levels restored is not the level of LH, but in fact testicular atrophy and desensitization to this hormone. After a period of inactivation the testes have apparently lost mass (atrophied), making them unable to perform the workload required by heightened levels of LH.

Post-Cycle LH Levels and Post Cycle Testosterone Levels

Figure I. LH and Testosterone measurements starting 1 week after the last injection of 250mg of testosterone enanthate (pretreated measures were 5 mU/ml and 4.5 ng/ml respectively). Note that between weeks 1 and 5, as testosterone levels are declining due to the cessation of exogenous androgen administration, LH levels are already rebounding. From weeks 5 to 10 testosterone levels are at or very near baseline, to spite the substantial LH levels by this point. No significant increase in testosterone is noted until after the 10-week mark.

The Role of Anti-estrogens

It is important to understand that anti-estrogens alone do not do much to restore endogenous testosterone release after a cycle. Normally they only foster LH by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens, and we now see that LH rebounds quickly without help anyway. Plus, post cycle there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogens in men. Serum estrogen levels will actually be lower here as a result, not higher. Any estrogen rebound that occurs post-cycle likewise happens concurrently with a rebound in testosterone levels, not prior to it (note there is an imbalance in the ratio post cycle, but this is another topic altogether). We are seeing no mechanism in which anti-estrogenic drugs can really help here. We can see why this fact would not be difficult to overlook, however. The medical literature is filled with references showing anti-estrogenic drugs like Clomid and Nolvadex to increase LH and testosterone levels, and in normal situations these drugs do indeed increase endogenous androgen production by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens. Combine this with the fact that just as many studies can be found to show that steroid use lowers LH levels when suppressing testosterone, and we can see how easy it would be to jump to the conclusion that post-cycle we need to focus on restoring LH. We would miss the true problem of testicular desensitization unless we were really looking into the actual recovery rates of the hormones involved. When we do, we immediately see little value in using anti-estrogenic drugs.

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)

So we now see, contrary to the dominating opinion of the times, that anti-estrogens alone will do little to raise testosterone levels in the early weeks of the post-cycle window. This leaves us to focus on a very different level of the HPTA in order to hasten recovery: the testes. For this we will need the injectable drug Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). If you are not familiar with it, Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG), or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, is a prescription fertility agent that mimics the bodies own natural LH. Although the testes are equally desensitized to this drug as LH (they both work through the same mechanism), we are administering it as a measured drug and are therefore not constrained by the limits of our own LH production. We similarly can use Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) to provide a bolus dose of LH (of our choosing), which works only to augment the recovering LH levels we already have in the body. In essence we are looking to shock them with an overwhelmingly high level of LH activity, coming from both endogenous and exogenous sources. We want it to reach a level far above what our body, even when supported by anti-estrogens, could possibly do on its own. The result can be a rapid restoration of original testicular mass and functioning, which would allow normal levels of testosterone to be output much sooner than without such an ancillary program. What we are looking at now is Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) actually being the pivotal post-cycle drug, while anti-estrogens are relegated to a supportive role at best.

Finalizing the Program

An ideal post-cycle recovery program will focus on two things really. The first is hitting the testes hard with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). It is important, however, not to overuse this drug. Taken for too long, or at too high a dosage, the LH receptor will actually become desensitized to LH(2) , which may further exacerbate our post-cycle problem instead of helping it (this is why I am not in favor of regular Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) use on-cycle). My experience with Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has led me to feel comfortable using it for a course of three weeks, at a dosage of maybe 5000-7500IU weekly. Often the last week I limit the dose to 2,500IU, unless the cycle has been particularly long or potent. This is timed so at least half of the total administered drug dosage will be given when there is still exogenous steroid in the body. On our graph above this would be at about the 3-week mark after the last injection of testosterone. This will give the testes some time to get back into shape before the baseline is actually hit with T levels. Secondly, Anti-estrogens are used to play a supportive role at the same time, so 20mg of Nolvadex or 50-100mg of Clomid would typically be added ( my last article for Mind and Muscle discusses the comparative differences with these two agents). This is to combat the suppressive effects of estrogen as testosterone levels start to go back up, as well as potential side effects ( Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has been shown to increase testicular aromatase activity as well (3)). Although in the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogen does little, it may indeed be helpful when testosterone levels actually start to get back up near normal. To further stimulate the HPTA, and support continuingly high LH levels, the anti-estrogen remains to be used for 2 to 3 weeks after the Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) therapy has been stopped.

In Closing

I hope this article provided a well-needed new look at the mechanisms involved in post-cycle testosterone recovery. Indeed I believe it should debunk a commonly held belief these days, as we seen now that those advocating the sole use of Clomid post cycle are sorely missing the mark. The problem goes much deeper than just getting LH levels back. In fact, we see that LH doesn’t even need much help kicking back into gear, and a drug like Clomid will do very little to help this anyway in the absence of significant estrogen levels anyway. Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) is a drug with undeniable usefulness during the post-cycle window, and many bodybuilders have been much too quick to abandon it. It is truly fundamental to an effective recovery program, and would not consider any dose or combination of anti-estrogens or aromatase inhibitors capable of doing the job without it.

References:

1. Effect of long-term testosterone oenanthate administration on male reproductive function: Clinical evaluation, serum FSH, LH, Testosterone and seminal fluid analysis in normal men. J. Mauss, G. Borsch et al. Acta Endocrinol 78 (1975) 373-84

2. Desensitization to gonadotropins in cultured Leydig tumor cells involves loss of gonadotropin receptors and decreased capacity for steroidogenesis. Freeman DA, Ascoli M Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1981 Oct;78(10):6309-13

3. Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig Cells by Human Chorionic Gonadotropin In-vitro. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 76:4460-3,1079

If you feel like you don't agree, I can get you in touch with William Llewelyn an dr mike scally and you can fully debate their research and data on the subject.

I look forward to the screen shot of the conversation as too learn and be enlightened

 

[Hastur]

Just going off what dr mike scaly talks about for his power pct plan. You can shoot him an email if you wish to debate him.
When HCG is taken for too long or too high of a dosage, it can desensitize the lh receptor, according to the hormonal restoration doctor.


If you feel like you don't agree, I can get you in touch with William Llewelyn an dr mike scally and you can fully debate their research and data on the subject.

I look forward to the screen shot of the conversation of you schooling them as well as too learn and be enlightened

I just have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

 

[jbryand101b]

This isn't an opening to begin debating the use of HCG on or post cycle. To each their own.

 

[Hastur]

This isn't an opening to begin debating the use of HCG on or post cycle. To each their own.

Agreed. Besides, I think that post covered things sufficiently. Back on topic, I'm still really interested in seeing someone run Rad/Trest. Hopefully someone around here is crazy enough to do it, or it'll end up being me in December... And I don't want to wait that long to see/hear about possible synergy. Too impatient that for.

 

[jbryand101b]

Agreed. Besides, I think that post covered things sufficiently. Back on topic, I'm still really interested in seeing someone run Rad/Trest. Hopefully someone around here is crazy enough to do it, or it'll end up being me in December... And I don't want to wait that long to see/hear about possible synergy. Too impatient that for.

Yea, I was going to start rad + 4ad but stopped due to we're trying to get pregnant an the wife has started taking meds to increase fertility so me too

 

[StanleyG]

Just going off what dr mike scaly talks about for his power pct plan. You can shoot him an email if you wish to debate him.
When HCG is taken for too long or too high of a dosage, it can desensitize the lh receptor, according to the hormonal restoration doctor.


If you feel like you don't agree, I can get you in touch with William Llewelyn an dr mike scally and you can fully debate their research and data on the subject.

I look forward to the screen shot of the conversation as too learn and be enlightened

LOL As far as putting me in touch with Dr Scally its not necessary- I talk to him regularly on another forum so no need. Get your info and facts up to date before you try to act smug and like you know things you dont.
If your going to nothing more than a parroting google ninja at least make sure your google skills and info are up to date!
Your analogy between HCG length and dosage of administration causing leydig cell desensitization makes absolutely no sense as far as bolstering the stupid statement you made for christs sake. This is like debating with a total moron. WTF does an extremely potent LH mimetic (one many times stronger than LH) have to do with degree of suppression and Leydig cell desensitization? Please do explain. Wait as a matter of fact- dont. The simple fact you applied that to LH dosage and duration causing Leydig cell desensitization just proves you dont know wtf your talking about. What you said doesnt do a damn thing to support your statement at all. (especially the HCG comment). The outdated WL info is a joke.
WTF is this if I post some info and apply something a smart DR said to something I said when there is no correlation maybe people will think I know what Im talking about? Now if you cant support what you said with accurate applicable info just ****ing say so. Not to do so is doing the people of this forum a disservice.

 

[StanleyG]

I just have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

Why are the Olympus guys the exceedingly ignorant and misinformed members on this forum? The ones that spout off the most misinformation yet the ones that act the most arrogant.
I find that an extremely interesting phenomenon.

 

[jbryand101b]

LOL This is old Info and why Dr Scally made the changes he did to his power pct program- because the info was inaccurate and outdated. As far as putting me in touch with Dr Scally its not necessary- I talk to him regularly on another forum so no need. Get your info and facts up to date before you try to act smug and like you know things you dont.
If your going to nothing more than a parroting google ninja at least make sure your google skills and info are up to date!

The program has changed slightly.

This isn't about the pct program. You always seem to be grabbing at straws when you debate something. You asked for clarification and rather than type it out, it's easier to quote information with resources cited. If you disagree with the data presented please post the convo between the two of you with different information on htpa function, lh receptor activation.

You asked for clarification, I gave you the easiest way to understand what was being said as you didn't

 

[StanleyG]

The program has changed slightly.

This isn't about the pct program. You always seem to be grabbing at straws when you debate something. You asked for clarification and rather than type it out, it's easier to quote information with resources cited. If you disagree with the data presented please post the convo between the two of you with different information on htpa function, lh receptor activation.

You asked for clarification, I gave you the easiest way to understand what was being said as you didn't

I edited my post - read it. The hcg correlation you made does absolutely nothing to support your comment I questioned you on. It is ridiculous you would try to imply it does. All that does is show your ignorance of the statement you made and how the HPTA system works. Sheesh....Is this real life? The scary thing is until someone with real intelligence came here the forum members probably considered you intelligent and thought you knew what you were talking about.
Why are you lumping an outdated WL write up with Dr Scally and his statement on HCG and leydig cell desensitization? You have no clue that Scaally stetment re HCG has zero to do with what you said abut degree of supression and leydig cell desensitization do you? HCg is NOT LH, it is many times more potent. My god this is a waste of time. You are clueless . Look - if you dont know something- just dont post. The statement I asked you to clarify is total BS.

 

[StanleyG]

Here lets do it this way.

Suppression of lh output to a degree the testicles become desensitized to the effects is different than suppressed but not enough to do so.

This is an absolutely ridiculous statement. If it isnt please do explain the absolute degree of suppression where this occurs? Wait you cant because it is total nonsense.

 

[jbryand101b]

Your right, it is pointless, as you grab at everything you can to argue instead of an intelligent discussion on the subject you questioned.

I see you do so often I'm starting to think it isn't intentional, but instead you actually lack the intelligence needed to make your point.

Look, if you aren't sure, it's okay, I'm not going to hate on you, I'm always here if you need help bro.

 

[Hastur]

Why are the Olympus guys the exceedingly ignorant and misinformed members on this forum? The ones that spout off the most misinformation yet the ones that act the most arrogant.
I find that an extremely interesting phenomenon.

Confrontational, condescending, and completely off topic. You are adding nothing to this conversation, it appears you have some sort of personal vendetta and simply wish to derail this thread. I believe some may refer to such actions as 'trolling' and it is not appreciated here. No one else is starting any sort of issues, nor personally attacking others in this thread. We are here to discuss the specified topics at hand, like adults. If you do not wish to participate, there are many other threads on this board.

 

[StanleyG]

View attachment 123013

Your right, it is pointless, as you grab at everything you can to argue instead of an intelligent discussion on the subject you questioned.

I see you do so often I'm starting to think it isn't intentional, but instead you actually lack the intelligence needed to make your point.

Look, if you aren't sure, it's okay, I'm not going to hate on you, I'm always here if you need help bro.

Just explain your original statement instead of deflecting. The problem is you cant, because it is absolutely ridiculous and asinine. A disgrace that you would even give such advice & state such misiformation. You shouldnt post if you do not understand something man. You do it all the time. Its far from the first time and I am far from the first to call you out on it.

 

[mixedup]

Honestly I'm here to be BIG. I admit I'm not overly scientific and can't quote studies or biologic functions etc. But my friends and trainers are good enough to grab pro cards and modeling and supplement contracts. I do get blood tests approx 4x a year and my dr monitors my levels from test and estrogen too simple bp cholesterol liver etc. I think most of just want to know if something works. I leave the rest to professionals I'm an accountant I wouldn't trust my mechanic to forecast bad debt for the quarter but I would trust him to install my transmission I don't need to know how many lbs of torque he used on a certain bolt just that it works

 

[mixedup]

Yea, I was going to start rad + 4ad but stopped due to we're trying to get pregnant an the wife has started taking meds to increase fertility so me too

Good luck with that bro wish you best of luck as a father of 3 myself

 

[Hastur]

Yea, I was going to start rad + 4ad but stopped due to we're trying to get pregnant an the wife has started taking meds to increase fertility so me too

Awesome, man! That's got to be exciting! I wish you two have the best of luck!

 

[jbryand101b]

Honestly I'm here to be BIG. I admit I'm not overly scientific and can't quote studies or biologic functions etc. But my friends and trainers are good enough to grab pro cards and modeling and supplement contracts. I do get blood tests approx 4x a year and my dr monitors my levels from test and estrogen too simple bp cholesterol liver etc. I think most of just want to know if something works. I leave the rest to professionals I'm an accountant I wouldn't trust my mechanic to forecast bad debt for the quarter but I would trust him to install my transmission I don't need to know how many lbs of torque he used on a certain bolt just that it works

I'm here to entertain myself and have fun discussion. I'd let you change my transmission mixed,

 

[jbryand101b]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

Just explain your original statement instead of deflecting. The problem is you cant, because it is absolutely ridiculous and asinine. A disgrace that you would even give such advice & state such misiformation. You shouldnt post if you do not understand something man. You do it all the time. Its far from the first time and I am far from the first to call you out on it.

Okay! I give up! I'm not an Internet warrior sitting behind a monitor typing on a keyboard.
I'm on my phone. Using my thumb. I'm sorry for not wanting to type a book using just my thumb. I'm lazy, my b.
I'll leave it at this for those who want to learn an research themselves, if they care:
luteinizing hormone receptor. Testicle desensitization.

Back to sarms. I don't think they suppress enough to worry much about shut down. But having anti estrogens is a good precaution to have imo