SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[yates84]

Question: what should the Ai dosing protocol be for arimidex and aromasin for these particular sarm cycles? And should i follow the AI dosage during cycle and throughout pct? I just need to clear this up, appreciate if anyone can help

As Joe said, no need for such a strong ai on sarms. A mild ai like armistane is more ideal for sarms

 

[M.I.D]

How long would it take for the water to drop off once ceasing use MK-677?

 

[yates84]

How long would it take for the water to drop off once ceasing use MK-677?

It should drop off fairly quick after discontinuing. I've seen people say water retention backed off as they continued use as well

 

[yates84]

How long would it take for the water to drop off once ceasing use MK-677?

It should drop off fairly quick after discontinuing. I've seen people say water retention backed off as they continued use as well

 

[M.I.D]

It should drop off fairly quick after discontinuing. I've seen people say water retention backed off as they continued use as well

Main reason I ask is coz I will be running this up until a week before I go on holiday, If i Take diuretics should it be shred before hols? lol

 

[yates84]

Main reason I ask is coz I will be running this up until a week before I go on holiday, If i Take diuretics should it be shred before hols? lol

If you have any water retention diuretics should handle it for you. You might not even have that side, I know I dont

 

[M.I.D]

If you have any water retention diuretics should handle it for you. You might not even have that side, I know I dont

I have been taking it a week and I have put water weight on, up 2kgs in 7 days

 

[M.I.D]

If you have any water retention diuretics should handle it for you. You might not even have that side, I know I dont

I have been taking it a week and I have put water weight on, up 2kgs in 7 days

 

[Lucianooo]

Main reason I ask is coz I will be running this up until a week before I go on holiday, If i Take diuretics should it be shred before hols? lol

Diet is the key.Also keep an eye on the sodium intake while on MK 677

 

[M.I.D]

Diet is the key.Also keep an eye on the sodium intake while on MK 677

What is the reason for wathcing sodium intake ?

 

[Lucianooo]

What is the reason for wathcing sodium intake ?

Water retention

 

[M.I.D]

Water retention

Oh i see, if you take in alot of sodium does that increase the water retention?

 

[yates84]

Oh i see, if you take in alot of sodium does that increase the water retention?

Oh yeah, sodium plays a big role in water retention

 

[kbxblaze]

For lgd and ostarine. Im just wondering how would you dose it if arimidex and/or aromasin is the only thing i have on hand right now.. and do i run it during cycle and pct?

 

[kbxblaze]

Which arimistane brand would you recommend as well as dosage protocol.. im currently running tri sarm by primeeval labz

 

[yates84]

For lgd and ostarine. Im just wondering how would you dose it if arimidex and/or aromasin is the only thing i have on hand right now.. and do i run it during cycle and pct?

Don't use it at all unless you have high estrogen sides, you will crash your estrogen with those ai's pretty easy. If you really wanted to use exemestane during pct you could dose at 12.5mg eod or even e3d

 

[yates84]

Which arimistane brand would you recommend as well as dosage protocol.. im currently running tri sarm by primeeval labz

OL eliminate is a great choice for armistane. Dose 2 caps a day split am/pm to start. You can go up if needed as high as 4 caps a day

 

[mnemotron]

Oh i see, if you take in alot of sodium does that increase the water retention?

Sodium and carbs increase the water retention by osmosis

 

[kbxblaze]

Which arimistane brand would you recommend as well as dosage protocol.. im currently running tri sarm by primeeval labz.. do i run ol eliminate throughout the 8 weeks including the duration of pct

 

[JONimal]

Don't use it at all unless you have high estrogen sides, you will crash your estrogen with those ai's pretty easy. If you really wanted to use exemestane during pct you could dose at 12.5mg eod or even e3d

isnt clomid the standard for PCT with osta? can/should you run exemestane alongside clomid or either solo?

 

[yates84]

isnt clomid the standard for PCT with osta? can/should you run exemestane alongside clomid or either solo?

Clomid is standard, yes. You can run exemestane with clomid but it is really user prefrence. I like to use exemestane but very low dosed in pct. 12.5mg e3d is enough to get my e2 where I want it. Everyone is so different in how they react to different compounds it is really hard to give a blanket statement saying yes or no to a pct ai and at what dose

 

[Joedoubledose]

Listen to Yates the last thing you want to do is tank your E2 as well

 

[JONimal]

running osta @20mg currently with exemstane @12.5mg eod. Gonna start pct with clomid and letrone in place of exemstane to try not and crash my e2, libido is **** at the moment anyway so hopefully will pick back up in PCT

 

[warpyfunch]

isnt clomid the standard for PCT with osta? can/should you run exemestane alongside clomid or either solo?

There are different schools of thought as to the use of an AI during PCT. On cycle, definitely, if you have an estrogen issue, you want to use an AI to control it. After the cycle, during PCT, your main goal is to get your hormones back to a normal balance. Guaranteed your estrogen is going to be sky high during that period, as that is one of the effects of your SERM. The SERM stimulates your HPTA, and both test and estro go way up.

Some go by the idea that you should throw in an AI to keep estrogen in a reasonable range throughout PCT, and then after you taper off the SERM, gradually taper the AI down so you don't get estro rebound.

On the other hand, given that the idea is to let your body return to a natural state as quickly as possible, the AI might actually delay that process. Yes, your estrogen will shoot up while you're on a SERM, but also remember that the SERM will be simultaneously blocking that estrogen from causing any undesired effects like gyno. You then taper off the SERM, which allows hormone levels to gradually come back down to natural, and by the time you're off it completely, your estrogen should be back at a normal range, or close enough that you don't have to be concerned about growing tits. Your test will come back down, and your body should clear any excess estrogen by itself quickly enough that there will be no problem.

The SERM basically allows your body time to correct itself while protecting you from the negative effects. Adding in an AI would be adding an additional artificial component to your hormone profile, and would only prolong the process of returning to normal.

I go by the latter thinking. AI on cycle, SERM for PCT. The strongest AI I would use for PCT would be arimistane, which I use more for cortisol control anyway. I also keep exemestane on hand as insurance after stopping the SERM, but have never had to use it.

Here's a couple informative posts from an older thread here:

I run AI during cycle, stop at PCT ( when i did pct, now im on hrt) and have had no issues since using and dialing in AI use.
rebound? after PCT your body is still trying to level out. if there is some sensitivity run low dose SERM like 10mg tamox ed for an extra week or two.

This, works every time for me. People have to realize the body is working on its own via the cyp 450 family of enzymes to metabolize any excess estrogen that would be present. This happens relatively quickly. Far more quickly that gyno could every form.

Thats another thing. People have to understand what gyno is. It isnt swollen breast tissue or sensitive breast tissue is is the formation and presence or a fiberous mass in breast tissue. Quite often what people refer to as "gyno" is in fact not gyno at all. There are certain times in your cycle, primarily in the beginning and at the end , where hormonal fluctuations are taking place and the aforementioned conditions will occur and people jump to the erroneous conclusion that it is gyno and start throwing compounds at it unnecessarily. Thats a big mistake. Then you are chasing your tail.

Following what you have outlined has worked for years. I do not feel there is a place for an ai at all in pct. The estrogen agonist and antagonist activity serms provide are optimal for restoring hpta function and the body on its own, will metabolize any excess estrogen long before gyno could form. It doesnt occur overnight. Gyno takes time to actually form.
Excellent post Blergs!

 

[chedapalooza]

Got my stuff sorted out... Going to wait til October to run cardar1ne since I'm slowly reverse dieting; I don't want to take it with less than 100g daily carbs. I'll be at 125-150g in October and still climbing so I figure thT will be the perfect time to throw it in to this stack:

September: coming off clomid; add in letrone 1 cap, ghar1ne 10mg nightly

October: letrone 1 cap, ghar1ne 20mg, Cardar1ne building up to 14mg

November: probably drop the ai/have one on hand based off blood work, ghar1ne 30mg, cardar1ne 14-21mg based on effects

December: drop ghar1ne, cardar1ne 14-21mg

All will most likely include ep1c unleashed and cycle LJ 100 at 6 weeks on/2 weeks off. Seems to be an effective method for me based off my recent blood work!

Then in January I'd start all over again

 

[Hastur]

There are different schools of thought as to the use of an AI during PCT. On cycle, definitely, if you have an estrogen issue, you want to use an AI to control it. After the cycle, during PCT, your main goal is to get your hormones back to a normal balance. Guaranteed your estrogen is going to be sky high during that period, as that is one of the effects of your SERM. The SERM stimulates your HPTA, and both test and estro go way up.

Some go by the idea that you should throw in an AI to keep estrogen in a reasonable range throughout PCT, and then after you taper off the SERM, gradually taper the AI down so you don't get estro rebound.

On the other hand, given that the idea is to let your body return to a natural state as quickly as possible, the AI might actually delay that process. Yes, your estrogen will shoot up while you're on a SERM, but also remember that the SERM will be simultaneously blocking that estrogen from causing any undesired effects like gyno. You then taper off the SERM, which allows hormone levels to gradually come back down to natural, and by the time you're off it completely, your estrogen should be back at a normal range, or close enough that you don't have to be concerned about growing tits. Your test will come back down, and your body should clear any excess estrogen by itself quickly enough that there will be no problem.

The SERM basically allows your body time to correct itself while protecting you from the negative effects. Adding in an AI would be adding an additional artificial component to your hormone profile, and would only prolong the process of returning to normal.

I go by the latter thinking. AI on cycle, SERM for PCT. The strongest AI I would use for PCT would be arimistane, which I use more for cortisol control anyway. I also keep exemestane on hand as insurance after stopping the SERM, but have never had to use it.

Here's a couple informative posts from an older thread here:

Personally I think it's good to have an AI on hand, at the very least Exemestane. No matter the cycle. It's best for on cycle. However, after having experienced some estrogen rebound even tapering off Toremifene properly, my next PCT will likely have a SERM/AI overlap with the AI tapering off once the SERM is discontinued.

Got my stuff sorted out... Going to wait til October to run cardar1ne since I'm slowly reverse dieting; I don't want to take it with less than 100g daily carbs. I'll be at 125-150g in October and still climbing so I figure thT will be the perfect time to throw it in to this stack:

September: coming off clomid; add in letrone 1 cap, ghar1ne 10mg nightly

October: letrone 1 cap, ghar1ne 20mg, Cardar1ne building up to 14mg

November: probably drop the ai/have one on hand based off blood work, ghar1ne 30mg, cardar1ne 14-21mg based on effects

December: drop ghar1ne, cardar1ne 14-21mg

All will most likely include ep1c unleashed and cycle LJ 100 at 6 weeks on/2 weeks off. Seems to be an effective method for me based off my recent blood work!

Then in January I'd start all over again

Sounds like a man with a plan! I'm thinking for my PCT I'll run:

~September - November: (8 weeks)
Sup3r PCT (First 30 days)
Toremifene (With Sup3r PCT)
Exemestane (Overlapping part of Toremifene, after Super PCT is gone)
Cardar1ne (All 8 weeks)
Ghar1ne (All 8 weeks)
Str3ngth (All 8 weeks)
Ep1c Unleashed (All 8 weeks)

Hopefully I'll have a quick and smooth recovery, and maintain or possibly even continue to make gains in PCT with the non-suppressive supplements. At least, that's the plan. I still have to snatch up some of the supplements.

 

[1kerry]

You guys consider OL Transform (forma) as a strong AI for an OSTA cycle?? Right now Im using it 1 pump EOD since week 7, not because of estro sides, but more because of its anabolic/boost and dry effect it gives..

 

[T-Bone]

You guys consider OL Transform (forma) as a strong AI for an OSTA cycle?? Right now Im using it 1 pump EOD since week 7, not because of estro sides, but more because of its anabolic/boost and dry effect it gives..

Don't need an AI for an Ostarine cycle. Formestane is awesome by the way. Too bad it's gone now.

 

[Hastur]

You guys consider OL Transform (forma) as a strong AI for an OSTA cycle?? Right now Im using it 1 pump EOD since week 7, not because of estro sides, but more because of its anabolic/boost and dry effect it gives..

I don't think it's TOO strong, if that's your question. I definitely think they stack well together. You just don't want to crush your Estrogen, just control it. Transform won't kill it like Exemestane will... So you're good to go.

 

[Hastur]

Don't need an AI for an Ostarine cycle. Formestane is awesome by the way. Too bad it's gone now.

I agree with you, I don't think you need it, but I don't think it will hurt. Not like the harsher AIs.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

running osta @20mg currently with exemstane @12.5mg eod. Gonna start pct with clomid and letrone in place of exemstane to try not and crash my e2, libido is **** at the moment anyway so hopefully will pick back up in PCT

Try some DHEA for libido, it should help

 

[GreekTheBrick]

You guys consider OL Transform (forma) as a strong AI for an OSTA cycle?? Right now Im using it 1 pump EOD since week 7, not because of estro sides, but more because of its anabolic/boost and dry effect it gives..

I ran osta and transform for 8weeks, last 4weeks osta@25mg and TF@4ml. No sides at all

 

[Lucianooo]

I ran osta and transform for 8weeks, last 4weeks osta@25mg and TF@4ml. No sides at all

Good Transform usually makes the pct a lot easier

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Didnt know that! I thought it shuts you at high doses. It was my first cycle and I was cautious about PCT but it seems that its going just fine

 

[yates84]

Didnt know that! I thought it shuts you at high doses. It was my first cycle and I was cautious about PCT but it seems that its going just fine

100mg of transform or less is fine for pct imo

 

[GreekTheBrick]

100mg of transform or less is fine for pct imo

Thing is its running out. Maybe OL.uk can fix this

 

[yates84]

Thing is its running out. Maybe OL.uk can fix this

Someone needs to bring forma back!

 

[Lucianooo]

Someone needs to bring forma back!

Absolutely

 

[jbryand101b]

SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

You guys consider OL Transform (forma) as a strong AI for an OSTA cycle?? Right now Im using it 1 pump EOD since week 7, not because of estro sides, but more because of its anabolic/boost and dry effect it gives..

Don't need an AI for an Ostarine cycle. Formestane is awesome by the way. Too bad it's gone now.

Needed no, but it can enhance the cycle if dosed properly

 

[T-Bone]

Well formestane is now a controlled substance thanks to....whoever you want to blame. If I had some I'd save it for when absolutely needed.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Well formestane is now a controlled substance thanks to....whoever you want to blame. If I had some I'd save it for when absolutely needed.

Meaning a heavy cycle?

 

[Hastur]

Meaning a heavy cycle?

Not necessarily a heavy cycle, just a cycle that requires an AI, considering Ostarine doesn't.

 

[T-Bone]

Not necessarily a heavy cycle, just a cycle that requires an AI, considering Ostarine doesn't.

Yes this. If you have limited formestane, save it for when you really need it!. It's not like you will be able to get any more of it!.

 

[Hastur]

Yes this. If you have limited formestane, save it for when you really need it!. It's not like you will be able to get any more of it!.

Agreed. Though to be fair, I know how tempting it is to use something, even if it's the last of your stash...

 

[Lucianooo]

Meaning a heavy cycle?

TransForm (TD Formestane) was by far the BEST OTC Ai i ve ever used bro

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Agreed. Though to be fair, I know how tempting it is to use something, even if it's the last of your stash...

Like a child with the candies!

 

[GreekTheBrick]

TransForm (TD Formestane) was by far the BEST OTC Ai i ve ever used bro

Hear you bro

 

[Hastur]

Like a child with the candies!

Exactly. I dipped into my PH/DS stash, using the only Halo and Furaza I have. I know it's the last, and it's gone now. But it was sitting there staring at me... I couldn't help myself! lol

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Exactly. I dipped into my PH/DS stash, using the only Halo and Furaza I have. I know it's the last, and it's gone now. But it was sitting there staring at me... I couldn't help myself! lol

Man it was intented to use it, so well done. There is no better time than now!

 

[Hastur]

Man it was intented to use it, so well done. There is no better time than now!

My thoughts exactly, brother! Plus, there is always something new around the corner. It's like Radar1ne, a few months back I never thought I'd use RAD-140 because it wasn't available. Now, I'm 11 days into using it! There will always be a compound out there to try, my friend!