SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[nick76]

What would a generic SERM pct look like for a 4-6 week osta cycle in a decent dose 15-25mg ED? And what would be the best dosage and AI for an estrogen side flare if it happens?

 

[yates84]

What would a generic SERM pct look like for a 4-6 week osta cycle in a decent dose 15-25mg ED? And what would be the best dosage and AI for an estrogen side flare if it happens?

Short sarm cycle pct:
Clomid 50/25/25
Or
Nolva 20/10/10
Throw in some super pct and you're gtg
You can run 12.5mg Ed with exemestane until estrogen sides subside then dose exemestane 12.5mg eod or even e3d, just see how you react

 

[Joedoubledose]

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[Hastur]

What would a generic SERM pct look like for a 4-6 week osta cycle in a decent dose 15-25mg ED? And what would be the best dosage and AI for an estrogen side flare if it happens?

Short sarm cycle pct:
Clomid 50/25/25
Or
Nolva 20/10/10
Throw in some super pct and you're gtg
You can run 12.5mg Ed with exemestane until estrogen sides subside then dose exemestane 12.5mg eod or even e3d, just see how you react

Yates nailed it, always have Exemestane on hand On Cycle in case of estrogenic side effects, and then use it in PCT to reduce the chance of estrogen rebound following SERM use if you're the type of individual prone to that side effect. I personally ran Toremifene following my 6 week Ostarine cycle, and have heard only good reports concerning Toremifene as the SERM of choice amongst those looking for a low side effect, highly effective SERM.

 

[Shin Sprints]

I have some OL UK products I just received. I am not ready yet to try Ostar1ne but I have Gher1ne and Cardar1ne, Ep1c Unleashed as well.

Currently stacking Viron and Letrone and was wondering if I could add to the stack with the new OL I have?

Any suggestions?

Currently recomping and around 11% bf...maybe 10% on a good day

Plan on recomping for next 11 weeks. Then maybe...maybe, try a run of Osta and Derma.

New to this area, thanks.

 

[Hastur]

I have some OL UK products I just received. I am not ready yet to try Ostar1ne but I have Gher1ne and Cardar1ne, Ep1c Unleashed as well.

Currently stacking Viron and Letrone and was wondering if I could add to the stack with the new OL I have?

Any suggestions?

Currently recomping and around 11% bf...maybe 10% on a good day

Plan on recomping for next 11 weeks. Then maybe...maybe, try a run of Osta and Derma.

New to this area, thanks.

Absolutely! You can Ghar1ne, Cardar1ne, Ep1c Unleashed with Viron and Letrone! In fact, I'm jealous! I see no negative interactions whatsoever, and would use such a stack myself! Should be fantastic for recomping as well, my friend.

 

[Shin Sprints]

Absolutely! You can Ghar1ne, Cardar1ne, Ep1c Unleashed with Viron and Letrone! In fact, I'm jealous! I see no negative interactions whatsoever, and would use such a stack myself! Should be fantastic for recomping as well, my friend.

Any suggested dosing and timings?

I heard Ghar1ne can cause hunger so not sure how increase in appetite would play with recomp.

Thank you!

 

[yates84]

Any suggested dosing and timings?

I heard Ghar1ne can cause hunger so not sure how increase in appetite would play with recomp.

Thank you!

Dose gharine 30 min before bed and you will avoid the hunger associated with gharine

 

[Hastur]

Any suggested dosing and timings?

I heard Ghar1ne can cause hunger so not sure how increase in appetite would play with recomp.

Thank you!

Yates has answered your question regarding Ghar1ne perfectly, thats what I would do to avoid hunger. As for suggested dosages and timing for the other compounds, I would simply use as recommended! If you have any issues, then we can give our two cents, otherwise always use as recommended.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Yates nailed it, always have Exemestane on hand On Cycle in case of estrogenic side effects, and then use it in PCT to reduce the chance of estrogen rebound following SERM use if you're the type of individual prone to that side effect. I personally ran Toremifene following my 6 week Ostarine cycle, and have heard only good reports concerning Toremifene as the SERM of choice amongst those looking for a low side effect, highly effective SERM.

Nice(toremifene)choice. Side free. Did you run fareston or RC?

 

[Shin Sprints]

Yates has answered your question regarding Ghar1ne perfectly, thats what I would do to avoid hunger. As for suggested dosages and timing for the other compounds, I would simply use as recommended! If you have any issues, then we can give our two cents, otherwise always use as recommended.

I popped 10mg of Ghar1ne about 90 minutes before bed, I took it with pre-bed smoothie a bit earlier than normal as I wanted to assess any reaction I might have to taking it.

Will take 30 minutes before bed tonight.

Sleep wasn't uninterrupted as I am not that type of sleeper but I did seem to have a good sleep and this morning I hit the snooze a couple of extra times.

Will update as I take it and notice, or not, anything.

 

[Lucianooo]

I popped 10mg of Ghar1ne about 90 minutes before bed, I took it with pre-bed smoothie a bit earlier than normal as I wanted to assess any reaction I might have to taking it.

Will take 30 minutes before bed tonight.

Sleep wasn't uninterrupted as I am not that type of sleeper but I did seem to have a good sleep and this morning I hit the snooze a couple of extra times.

Will update as I take it and notice, or not, anything.

I'm sure you will be very pleased.Ghar1ne is getting tons of good reviews

 

[Shin Sprints]

I'm sure you will be very pleased.Ghar1ne is getting tons of good reviews

Going to stack with Cardar1ne. Will take first 7mg this morning with post-workout shake.

Will move to pre-workout tomorrow if I don't get any adverse reaction like low blood sugar, etc.

 

[cubs1987]

Going to stack with Cardar1ne. Will take first 7mg this morning with post-workout shake.

Will move to pre-workout tomorrow if I don't get any adverse reaction like low blood sugar, etc.

what else are you running; are you logging this? Cycle info?

 

[Shin Sprints]

what else are you running; are you logging this? Cycle info?

I am currently a week in Viron and Letrone...yes, I know I should try that stack in isolation but I couldn't wait with my OL package having arrived

I have been running Follidrone for nearly 8 weeks too but going to run 8 weeks Ep1c Unleashed once Foli runs out in a week.

So stack Will be...

2xViron (1×pre-workout morning)
2xLetrone (1×pre-workout morning)
2xEp1c Unleashed (2×pre-workout morning)
1xCardar1ne (1×pre-workout morning)...(upping to 2x after a week or two)
1xGher1ne (1×pre-bed)...upping to 2x in Weeks 5-8

I wasn't planning on logging but will think about it

 

[Hastur]

Nice(toremifene)choice. Side free. Did you run fareston or RC?

RC, my friend. Though I would have preferred Pharma! You're right about side effect free, after all I've read on Clomid and Nolvadex, why anyone would use thrm over Toremifene is surprising. It has less toxicity, less side effects, less emotional issues, so on...

 

[AndrewMcD]

subb'ed

 

[Hastur]

I am currently a week in Viron and Letrone...yes, I know I should try that stack in isolation but I couldn't wait with my OL package having arrived

I have been running Follidrone for nearly 8 weeks too but going to run 8 weeks Ep1c Unleashed once Foli runs out in a week.

So stack Will be...

2xViron (1×pre-workout morning)
2xLetrone (1×pre-workout morning)
2xEp1c Unleashed (2×pre-workout morning)
1xCardar1ne (1×pre-workout morning)...(upping to 2x after a week or two)
1xGher1ne (1×pre-bed)...upping to 2x in Weeks 5-8

I wasn't planning on logging but will think about it

No worries, my man. I can't try things in isolation either. There's too much to try! Too much to stack! But it sounds like you have a fantastic cycle, I can see it treating you well!

 

[Bunshichi]

You're right about side effect free, after all I've read on Clomid and Nolvadex, why anyone would use thrm over Toremifene is surprising. It has less toxicity, less side effects, less emotional issues, so on...

I think because Nolva seems to bind better to the receptors in breast tissue so it should offer better Gyno protection.
Otherwise I totally agree. Toremifene would be my choice if I would have access to a legit source...

 

[Hastur]

I think because Nolva seems to bind better to the receptors in breast tissue so it should offer better Gyno protection.
Otherwise I totally agree. Toremifene would be my choice if I would have access to a legit source...

Well I'd always opt for Toremifene paired with Exemstane if Gyno protection was a concern for me. Of course, ir depends where you're at in a cycle whats appropriate to use. On cycle, PCT, off cycle. Any sort of concerning estrogenic side effects during those periods would affect my choice. Thankfully, knock on wood, I've been safe thus far.

 

[Shin Sprints]

No worries, my man. I can't try things in isolation either. There's too much to try! Too much to stack! But it sounds like you have a fantastic cycle, I can see it treating you well!

Haha, totally agree

Yes, hopefully I get some nice results.

I took the 1xCardar1ne about 90 minutes ago with my post-workout shake, no issues...I didn't expect any really but this is all new to me so prefer to tread cautiously.

Tomorrow I will take pre-workout and assess any issues with hypo or low bp. If okay I will continue with that dose timing and go up to 2x in two weeks.

 

[1kerry]

Guys, currently on my 10th week of OSTAR1NE cycle, dose has been 10/10/15/15/20/20/20/20/20 almost side free, just 2 days with headaches and a little anxious at the beginning, and lethargy was there only for 3-4days, if considering libido was 10/10 before cycle, lets say right now is 9/10.

So basically feeling great...im planning to run this for 2 more weeks, and question is, will I get any more positive results if I up my dose to 25mg for the last 15-18 days?? Im currently on cutting cycle and Im going KETO for 8-10 days before carb load for a photoshoot.

Thanks in advance

 

[Hastur]

Haha, totally agree

Yes, hopefully I get some nice results.

I took the 1xCardar1ne about 90 minutes ago with my post-workout shake, no issues...I didn't expect any really but this is all new to me so prefer to tread cautiously.

Tomorrow I will take pre-workout and assess any issues with hypo or low bp. If okay I will continue with that dose timing and go up to 2x in two weeks.

Sounds like you have a solid plan! Let us know how the cycle goes as you adjust dosage and timing! Could never have too much anecdotal data!

 

[Hastur]

Guys, currently on my 10th week of OSTAR1NE cycle, dose has been 10/10/15/15/20/20/20/20/20 almost side free, just 2 days with headaches and a little anxious at the beginning, and lethargy was there only for 3-4days, if considering libido was 10/10 before cycle, lets say right now is 9/10.

So basically feeling great...im planning to run this for 2 more weeks, and question is, will I get any more positive results if I up my dose to 25mg for the last 15-18 days?? Im currently on cutting cycle and Im going KETO for 8-10 days before carb load for a photoshoot.

Thanks in advance

At this point, I doubt it would have a huge effect, however with your upcoming photoshoot I personally would up the dosage for the last 15-18 days. Mind you I run Ostarine at 25mg for 6 weeks, no building up of the dosage. So if I were in your shoes, I'd likely already be running 25mg. For me it was the optimal dosage. Best of luck on your shoot, by the way!

 

[yates84]

Guys, currently on my 10th week of OSTAR1NE cycle, dose has been 10/10/15/15/20/20/20/20/20 almost side free, just 2 days with headaches and a little anxious at the beginning, and lethargy was there only for 3-4days, if considering libido was 10/10 before cycle, lets say right now is 9/10.

So basically feeling great...im planning to run this for 2 more weeks, and question is, will I get any more positive results if I up my dose to 25mg for the last 15-18 days?? Im currently on cutting cycle and Im going KETO for 8-10 days before carb load for a photoshoot.

Thanks in advance

You probably won't get any extra results with any higher dose. If you are responding well at 20mg there is no need to increase. When your results start to taper off is when you should think about increasing your dose

 

[hamdysayed]

RC, my friend. Though I would have preferred Pharma! You're right about side effect free, after all I've read on Clomid and Nolvadex, why anyone would use thrm over Toremifene is surprising. It has less toxicity, less side effects, less emotional issues, so on...

The more you know....
so toremifene is better than clomid.... damn. I just bought clomid.

 

[Hastur]

You probably won't get any extra results with any higher dose. If you are responding well at 20mg there is no need to increase. When your results start to taper off is when you should think about increasing your dose

Another excellent point, increasing your dosage when results begin to decline. For perspective, I recommended doing the 25mg dosage because I really only saw results at that dosage. I don't respond to lower dosage Ostarine as many guys seem to. Its all highly individual. But Yates makes an excellent point, and one I can't refute! Do whats best with your results factored in! If you're still doing as well as you did, no problem cruising the rest of the cycle without upping the dosage!

 

[yates84]

The more you know....
so toremifene is better than clomid.... damn. I just bought clomid.

You can't go wrong with clomid, there's a reason it's prescribed as trt

 

[Hastur]

The more you know....
so toremifene is better than clomid.... damn. I just bought clomid.

I'd love to say its opinion and personal preference, but studies back Toremifene as the safer SERM. If I wasn't on my phone, I'd cite some studies for you! But do some research, see what you find. I only came across positive data.

 

[T-Bone]

I'd love to say its opinion and personal preference, but studies back Toremifene as the safer SERM. If I wasn't on my phone, I'd cite some studies for you! But do some research, see what you find. I only came across positive data.

There is a HUGE thread about it on here. By DR.D

 

[Hastur]

You can't go wrong with clomid, there's a reason it's prescribed as trt

True, it is a very good compound. But I must say, many guys prefer to side step the emotional side effects of Clomid. Which I hear can be awful.

 

[Hastur]

There is a HUGE thread about it on here. By DR.D

I will have to look that up! I am always interested in learning more! Thanks, T-Bone!

 

[T-Bone]

I will have to look that up! I am always interested in learning more! Thanks, T-Bone!

Yeah I've searched for it but can not find it. I know it's here though. Somewhere.

 

[Hastur]

Yeah I've searched for it but can not find it. I know it's here though. Somewhere.

I'll have to see if I can find it. Your input on SERM preference? Assuming you aren't TRT that is.

 

[yates84]

True, it is a very good compound. But I must say, many guys prefer to side step the emotional side effects of Clomid. Which I hear can be awful.

Following the 50/50/25/25 dosing protocol makes the emotional side effects minimal or non existent for most

 

[T-Bone]

I'll have to see if I can find it. Your input on SERM preference? Assuming you aren't TRT that is.

We have the same preference.

 

[hamdysayed]

Following the 50/50/25/25 dosing protocol makes the emotional side effects minimal or non existent for most

How about the vision side effects ?
and also some of Toremifene side effects seems as intense as other serm.

 

[1kerry]

thank you for your time as always guys yates84 Hastur , the reason Im considering to up the dosage for the last days is because im gonna drop cals, and Im a skinny-fat guy who loses lots of muscle when trying to cut and gains lots of fat when trying to put on muscle ....

 

[Bunshichi]

Clomid is just perfectly backed up and is the "traditional" route...

Tamox is widely used as most seem to find the side effects less unpleasant. For protection of Estrogen related side effects it seems to be the best option.

Torem just has not as much backup for effectiveness at boosting testosterone levels. But it seems to have less side effects in all effected areas. It also seems to be best in providing growth of the testes.

They are all perfectly legit SERMs and Clomid is just the way to go if you want to be safe regarding the most used and scientifically backed up for PCT. Theres nothing wrong with it at all.

 

[yates84]

thank you for your time as always guys yates84 Hastur , the reason Im considering to up the dosage for the last days is because im gonna drop cals, and Im a skinny-fat guy who loses lots of muscle when trying to cut and gains lots of fat when trying to put on muscle ....

You can up the dose if you want, it isn't going to hurt you one bit. The benifit won't be very high though

 

[hamdysayed]

Yup after reading on Toremifene , def will stick to clomid.
I wonder if anyone had vision issues at 50 , the vision issues at 100+doses right?

 

[chedapalooza]

You can't go wrong with clomid, there's a reason it's prescribed as trt

Enjoying my restart very very much at 25mg EOD

 

[chedapalooza]

Yup after reading on Toremifene , def will stick to clomid.
I wonder if anyone had vision issues at 50 , the vision issues at 100+doses right?

Personally no vision issues at 50.. But emotional sides were next to unbearable. This is my second go in 3 years with clomid and its treating me much better at 25mg EOD ... No estrogen sides as of yet and no emotional sides. Besides feeling happy again lol

 

[yates84]

Yup after reading on Toremifene , def will stick to clomid.
I wonder if anyone had vision issues at 50 , the vision issues at 100+doses right?

I ran clomid at 100mg and had the emotional side effects but no vision problems. Never have heard too much about vision problems on clomid

 

[Bunshichi]

In the end given the dosage and effectiveness every potent anti-estrogen can and will cause vision problems hamdysayed.
The dosage at wich that happens varies depending on the user, the users initial and/or normal estrogenlevel and of couse the duration of administration.

In the End the side effect happens because Estrogen is a major player in maintaining and building connective tissues and "lubrication" of different body parts, essentially in regulating the fluid balance of the whole body.

There is no way in telling you at wich level you will get problems, but if you aren't prone to dry eyes you should be fine with conventional doses over normal durations.
However, if you experience problems, you will have to lower the dosage in the fastest SAFE way regarding other concerns possible. Just use eye drops to keep problems in check until the problem subsides.

Of couse the occurance of the problem is a little different regarding the SERMs. It is dependent on how effectively the drug binds to the specific receptor in charge and it it agonises or antagonises the receptor. While there is not enough detailed knowledge regarding these SERMs and every specific receptor they interact with all our normally used SERMs seem to antagonise these specific receptors.
With AIs the problem lies just within how much Estrogen can drop due to its use at that specific dose. The problem is unlikely to occur fast, but totally crushing Estrogenlevels over a longer period of time WILL cause vision impairment, although other sides might prevent from reaching a period that long.

 

[hamdysayed]

In the end given the dosage and effectiveness every potent anti-estrogen can and will cause vision problems hamdysayed.
The dosage at wich that happens varies depending on the user, the users initial and/or normal estrogenlevel and of couse the duration of administration.

In the End the side effect happens because Estrogen is a major player in maintaining and building connective tissues and "lubrication" of different body parts, essentially in regulating the fluid balance of the whole body.

There is no way in telling you at wich level you will get problems, but if you aren't prone to dry eyes you should be fine with conventional doses over normal durations.
However, if you experience problems, you will have to lower the dosage in the fastest SAFE way regarding other concerns possible. Just use eye drops to keep problems in check until the problem subsides.

Of couse the occurance of the problem is a little different regarding the SERMs. It is dependent on how effectively the drug binds to the specific receptor in charge and it it agonises or antagonises the receptor. While there is not enough detailed knowledge regarding these SERMs and every specific receptor they interact with all our normally used SERMs seem to antagonise these specific receptors.
With AIs the problem lies just within how much Estrogen can drop due to its use at that specific dose. The problem is unlikely to occur fast, but totally crushing Estrogenlevels over a longer period of time WILL cause vision impairment, although other sides might prevent from reaching a period that long.

good thing my cycle is only 6 weeks n pct 1 month.
thank u that was informative.

 

[chedapalooza]

In the end given the dosage and effectiveness every potent anti-estrogen can and will cause vision problems hamdysayed.
The dosage at wich that happens varies depending on the user, the users initial and/or normal estrogenlevel and of couse the duration of administration.

In the End the side effect happens because Estrogen is a major player in maintaining and building connective tissues and "lubrication" of different body parts, essentially in regulating the fluid balance of the whole body.

There is no way in telling you at wich level you will get problems, but if you aren't prone to dry eyes you should be fine with conventional doses over normal durations.
However, if you experience problems, you will have to lower the dosage in the fastest SAFE way regarding other concerns possible. Just use eye drops to keep problems in check until the problem subsides.

Of couse the occurance of the problem is a little different regarding the SERMs. It is dependent on how effectively the drug binds to the specific receptor in charge and it it agonises or antagonises the receptor. While there is not enough detailed knowledge regarding these SERMs and every specific receptor they interact with all our normally used SERMs seem to antagonise these specific receptors.
With AIs the problem lies just within how much Estrogen can drop due to its use at that specific dose. The problem is unlikely to occur fast, but totally crushing Estrogenlevels over a longer period of time WILL cause vision impairment, although other sides might prevent from reaching a period that long.

How low are we talkin here? I've been on various OTC AI's for about 12-16 weeks and I went from 43 e2 to 30... I am holding steady at 30-33 in fact

I'm assuming you are talking numbers in the low teens-single digit for e2

 

[Bunshichi]

How low are we talkin here? I've been on various OTC AI's for about 12-16 weeks and I went from 43 e2 to 30... I am holding steady at 30-33 in fact

I'm assuming you are talking numbers in the low teens-single digit for e2

Essentially either you are a little prone to having problems in that area and get problems after lowering, or you will only get problems after really really low levels. Lower single digits will probably always lead to problems, but I assume you will have other problems that cause you to be blind (pun intended ) for this.
In the end there are other factors that matter as well of course.

There is just alway the connection and the possibility and if encountering vision problems without accute reason one should take Estrogen levels in account. Otherwise one should be safe on OTC Ais or reasonable dosed Parma AIs.
No need to worry in my opinion, just something worth to consider if there are problems.

 

[1kerry]

You can up the dose if you want, it isn't going to hurt you one bit. The benifit won't be very high though

thanks bro! One more Q' (for today lol) for how long Ostar1ne will be good after opened? Im gonna open a new bottle to finish my current cycle, should I store it in the fridge? Or just put in a ziplock , in a cool, dry, dark place?

 

[yates84]

thanks bro! One more Q' (for today lol) for how long Ostar1ne will be good after opened? Im gonna open a new bottle to finish my current cycle, should I store it in the fridge? Or just put in a ziplock , in a cool, dry, dark place?

Yep. Cool, dark, and dry place and your osta will be good for a very long time