SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

[Hastur]

Well that is not circulatory collapse, that sounds more like a bout of low blood pressure or possibly heat/training related exhaustion. You really see circulatory collapse most commonly in people experiencing shock or having lost a significant amount of blood from trauma or surgery, and the arteries and veins actually collapse. Do you have a history of low blood pressure, either personal or family history? Or possibly hypoglycemia/low blood sugar? Any personal or family history of diabetes? Or are you on a low carb or ketogenic diet? There are a lot of possibilities and variables to account for, but I'd put my money on low blood sugar/hypoglycemia or low blood pressure.

 

[Lucianooo]

I hope you mean something else, because circulatory collapse is quite serious.

"A circulatory collapse is defined as a general or specific failure of the circulation, either cardiac or peripheral in nature. Although the mechanisms, causes and clinical syndromes are different the pathogenesis is the same, the circulatory system fails to maintain the supply of oxygen and other nutrients to the tissues and to remove the carbon dioxide and other metabolites from them. The failure may be hypovolemic, distributive."

Bro is most likely low blood pressure ....

 

[Lucianooo]

Well that is not circulatory collapse, that sounds more like a bout of low blood pressure or possibly heat/training related exhaustion. You really see circulatory collapse most commonly in people experiencing shock or having lost a significant amount of blood from trauma or surgery, and the arteries and veins actually collapse. Do you have a history of low blood pressure, either personal or family history? Or possibly hypoglycemia/low blood sugar? Any personal or family history of diabetes? Or are you on a low carb or ketogenic diet? There are a lot of possibilities and variables to account for, but I'd put my money on low blood sugar/hypoglycemia or low blood pressure.

This.

 

[Hastur]

Bro is most likely low blood pressure ....

Well Cardarine can cause both low blood pressure and low blood sugar, this isn't news. Typically it's fairly mild, and associated with an INCREASE in dosage, not when decreasing. Therefore I would assume genetic factors or dietary factors are coming into play here. I'm more than willing to jump in and try to help solve this mystery, but we need more details.

 

[mnemotron]

But if thats the problem I would assume it would come to play at higher dosages and not when I lower the dosage. No such problems all the time I stayed at 20 or 30mg.

that is really strange..yesterday I stayed at 10 and have no problem

 

[Bunshichi]

Ok so it was the wrong term indeed. One of the "false friends" regarding German and English xD

Well I got such problems years ago but what I am curious about is the time it happened.
When I got off GW I had such problems and now I lowered the dose from 20mg to 10mg and got the problem again.

 

[T-Bone]

It's more likely to be low blood sugar, which I experienced on GW also. That was really the only "benefit" to it, it was like a "Super" GDA.

 

[yates84]

that is really strange..yesterday I stayed at 10 and have no problem

GW has a profound effect on my bp, even at 10mg. Skip your gw dose for a few days and see how you feel

 

[mnemotron]

Bunshichi If one day you had lower pressure by yourself taking even 10mg of GW can cause the problem

 

[Bunshichi]

Planned to stop nontheless. Just decided to go to 10mg for the remaining caps as I am only around end of week 3 this time.
Will see how long the problems last this time.

 

[mnemotron]

Planned to stop nontheless. Just decided to go to 10mg for the remaining caps as I am only around end of week 3 this time.
Will see how long the problems last this time.

Have you try to misure you BP after the "problem" ?

 

[Hastur]

Ok so it was the wrong term indeed. One of the "false friends" regarding German and English xD

Well I got such problems years ago but what I am curious about is the time it happened.
When I got off GW I had such problems and now I lowered the dose from 20mg to 10mg and got the problem again.

Ok, now this I find odd. So you experience issues when you LOWER the dosage, not increase it. And the substance at hand is known to cause LOWER blood pressure and LOWER blood sugar levels. Assuming there is a link between Cardarine, lowering your dosage of it, and the effects you are feeling, I would question if you aren't typically hyperglycemic or deal with high blood pressure and that the Cardarine was keeping it at bay, and lowering the dosage means its no longer kept within normal parameters. Have you taken you resting BP recently? Or around the time you experience these issues? And do you have a family history of high blood pressure or diabetes? What your saying makes it sound as though it's not the Cardarine causing the issue, but that you have some underlying issue and its uncontrolled. Totally unrelated to you using the product. If you have a high sodium diet, or if you have a high body fat percentage, or if you're unconditioned and pushing yourself too hard, your BP may be skyrocketing and causing these effects.

 

[Bunshichi]

No, it was during TKD-Training every time so far. And I can only measure my bp on weekends as I don't have the "tool" here right now.

Systolic pressure was around 80-120 and diastolic pressure was between 40-80. I know its pretty low indeed but I got no problems at all all the other times. Only two weeks after stopping the first time and now after lowering the dose.

My diet is indeed not really consistent but on wendsdays and fridays when I go to TKD-Training I eat pretty much the same every time due to time issues.

EDIT: Resting pressures during the last few months.
I'm around 12-15% bodyfat and not too untrained.

It could really be an uncontrolled variable but the difference in GW doses is the only thing I could figure out so I thought I should ask if someone got similar experiences.

 

[mnemotron]

No, it was during TKD-Training every time so far. And I can only measure my bp on weekends as I don't have the "tool" here right now.

Systolic pressure was around 80-120 and diastolic pressure was between 40-80. I know its pretty low indeed but I got no problems at all all the other times. Only two weeks after stopping the first time and now after lowering the dose.
My diet is indeed not really consistent but on wendsdays and fridays when I go to TKD-Training I eat pretty much the same every time due to time issues.

EDIT: Resting pressures during the last few months.
I'm around 12-15% bodyfat and not too untrained.

It could really be an uncontrolled variable but the difference in GW doses is the only thing I could figure out so I thought I should ask if someone got similar experiences.

Problem solved i think....someday you had very low BP by yourself and if you took GW you got problems...

 

[yates84]

Are you using any other vasodialators? Pump products, epic unleashed?

 

[Hastur]

No, it was during TKD-Training every time so far. And I can only measure my bp on weekends as I don't have the "tool" here right now.

Systolic pressure was around 80-120 and diastolic pressure was between 40-80. I know its pretty low indeed but I got no problems at all all the other times. Only two weeks after stopping the first time and now after lowering the dose.

My diet is indeed not really consistent but on wendsdays and fridays when I go to TKD-Training I eat pretty much the same every time due to time issues.

EDIT: Resting pressures during the last few months.

I assume by TKD you mean Tae Kwon Do and not Traditional Ketogenic Diet, right? Pretty commonly used abbreviations, it can get confusing. I'll assume you're doing Tae Kwon Do training, which can be pretty intense from what I've read. If you are running 120/80 - 80/40, you have SERIOUSLY low blood pressure. I'm not sure how being on Cardarine hasn't resulted in issues during use because it should have lowered it even more, but I think its safe to say that discontinuing it isn't the cause of your issues. It still sounds like its either genetic or dietary in nature. Have you tried increasing your sodium and/or caloric intake pre-workout? I very rarely see anyone with a BP of 80/40 or even anywhere close, and I work as an EMT. My advice to you is to seek out a physician and give a detailed description of what you've been experiencing, if you are genetically prone to low blood pressure or just happen to be suffering from it, there isn't much to be done other than modulating your diet to increase it. But its always good to be cautious and consult a doctor with such matters. If necessary he can order blood tests as well, and see if there aren't glycemic factors at work as well.

 

[Hastur]

Problem solved i think....someday you had very low BP by yourself and if you took GW you got problems...

Except he is saying its when he lowered the dosage or discontinued the GW is when he experienced problems. It would be simple if it was the other way around, but he is saying that's not the case.

 

[Bunshichi]

That makes sense, I'm using Amino 1 during training and I just checked it, it contains Beet root extract.

 

[yates84]

Except he is saying its when he lowered the dosage or discontinued the GW is when he experienced problems. It would be simple if it was the other way around, but he is saying that's not the case.

They can't be related, no way

 

[Hastur]

That makes sense, I'm using Amino 1 during training and I just checked it, it contains Beet root extract.

Boom. There we go. Now THAT sounds like a reasonable explanation. And a detail we definitely needed. Either discontinue use, or increase your sodium while using it. But above all else, be careful. Your blood pressure would make me worry, the last thing you need is to pass out and injure yourself.

 

[Hastur]

They can't be related, no way

Agreed, I would put money on it being the nitrates combined with a history of low blood pressure.

 

[Bunshichi]

Yes I mean Tae Kwon Do.
The range of blood pressure was during the time I took 20-30mg (around 9 weeks) the 4 weeks off and the 2 weeks at 20mg with this week (since last wednesday) at 10mg. Pressure didn't raise that much during the time off.

 

[T-Bone]

I don't know. I wouldn't put money on anything right now. Bunshichi should visit his doctor and explain the problem.

 

[Bunshichi]

Probably. I'll see my doktor in around two and a half weeks. Until then I'll just stop using Amino 1.

 

[Hastur]

I don't know. I wouldn't put money on anything right now. Bunshichi should visit his doctor and explain the problem.

Which is what I stated earlier on. However once he provided that very enlightening detail, things started to make a lot more sense. Which is why details are important, especially when asking for help on such matters. He should definitely still seek out a physician, as I mentioned, but I bet that discontinuing the nitrates and/or upping his sodium intake would likely solve the issue. Still, better safe than sorry.

 

[Hastur]

Probably. I'll see my doktor in around two and a half weeks. Until then I'll just stop using Amino 1.

That sounds like a good plan, man. I wish you the best of luck!

 

[vujade]

I mean when you ttrain pretty intensive and you start to get blurry vision or "it gets black in your eyes", you get a headache and need to sit down or better lie down and raise your feet above the heigh of your head.

That is low pressure (under 100/60). Cardarine can low you pressure a lot...usually mine is 120/70,with cardarine 110/60

Blurry vision can also be from low blood sugar. I get low blood sugar from time to time and i get blurry vision,
dizzy, nausau and sometimes have to sit down. This for me, comes from not eating for too long.

GW besides lowering BP, also lowers blood sugar. You have to eat to avoid those sides

 

[Bunshichi]

Thanks Hastur!

And thanks for the help guys!

GW besides lowering BP, also lowers blood sugar. You have to eat to avoid those sides

Yes. Noticed that. Eating 4-6 times a day instead of 2-3 times before I first started GW.

 

[mnemotron]

Blurry vision can also be from low blood sugar. I get low blood sugar from time to time and i get blurry vision,
dizzy, nausau and sometimes have to sit down. This for me, comes from not eating for too long.

GW besides lowering BP, also lowers blood sugar. You have to eat to avoid those sides

usually low sugar causes cold sweating and anxiety.Nausea and Blurry vision usually is very low BP.I had similar problems month ago and my pressure was 85/55.....

 

[vujade]

I mean when you ttrain pretty intensive and you start to get blurry vision or "it gets black in your eyes", you get a headache and need to sit down or better lie down and raise your feet above the heigh of your head.

That is low pressure (under 100/60). Cardarine can low you pressure a lot...usually mine is 120/70,with cardarine 110/60

interesting, my pressure is usually 115/72 when not on anabolics.

I sometimes get blurry vision when my sugar is really low. I wonder if my pressure goes low at the same time..?

usually low sugar causes cold sweating and anxiety.Nausea and Blurry vision usually is very low BP.I had similar problems month ago and my pressure was 85/55.....

 

[mnemotron]

interesting, my pressure is usually 115/72 when not on anabolics.

I sometimes get blurry vision when my sugar is really low. I wonder if my pressure goes low at the same time..?

have you misured your bloood sugar with the "tool"?

 

[Hastur]

Wow, there's a lot more guys on here with glycemic and BP issues than I would have suspected.

Edit:
Just took my blood pressure out of pure curiosity...

Left Arm Blood Pressure: 117/69 ("Optimal"), Pulse: 76 (Currently on 8mg RAD-140, 75mg Halodrol, 150mg Furazadrol)

 

[T-Bone]

have you misured your bloood sugar with the "tool"?

Haha!

 

[yates84]

Wow, there's a lot more guys on here with glycemic and BP issues than I would have suspected.

Edit:
Just took my blood pressure out of pure curiosity...

Left Arm Blood Pressure: 117/69 ("Optimal"), Pulse: 76 (Currently on 8mg RAD-140, 75mg Halodrol, 150mg Furazadrol)

I'm jealous!

 

[mnemotron]

Wow, there's a lot more guys on here with glycemic and BP issues than I would have suspected.

Edit:
Just took my blood pressure out of pure curiosity...

Left Arm Blood Pressure: 117/69 ("Optimal"), Pulse: 76 (Currently on 8mg RAD-140, 75mg Halodrol, 150mg Furazadrol)

perfect considering you are under PH's

 

[Bunshichi]

Wow, there's a lot more guys on here with glycemic and BP issues than I would have suspected.

Edit:
Just took my blood pressure out of pure curiosity...

Left Arm Blood Pressure: 117/69 ("Optimal"), Pulse: 76 (Currently on 8mg RAD-140, 75mg Halodrol, 150mg Furazadrol)

What do you use for cycle support.
My blood pressure went to pressures like 160/95 on 20mg Epistane only but thats without any on cycle support.

Shocked me when I noticed that considering my lower bloodpressure when I'm not taking anything.

 

[Hastur]

I'm jealous!

perfect considering you are under PH's

What do you use for cycle support.
My blood pressure went to pressures like 160/95 on 20mg Epistane only but thats without any on cycle support.

Shocked me when I noticed that considering my lower bloodpressure when I'm not taking anything.

You know, I used to struggle with my blood pressure until I started using baking soda daily. Not kidding either, it has made a significant difference in my blood pressure. After reading about it as an ergogenic/performance enhancer on SuppVersity, I started using it as a lactic acid buffer for HIIT. I serial load it, space it out throughout the day, no heart burn, no indigestion, and lower blood pressure. Apparently it lowers aldosterone, and results in less water retention despite the increased sodium, along with possibly lowering the risk of left ventricular hypertrophy associated with steroid use as well. Granted, the lactic acid buffering has allowed me to increase my cardio intensity, so the increased conditioning from being able to push harder has definitely had a beneficial effect as well.

And as far as cycle support goes, I'm just using TUDCA, I wanted to snag a bottle of Ar1macare Pro for on cycle, but I had some difficulties with scheduling packages being delivered following a vacation I took. That's an intense increase in BP from Epistane, Bunshichi. I find it surprising you go from so low to so high! If I were you, I definitely wouldn't run a cycle without more support if that's a typical occurrence for you!

 

[Bunshichi]

I'm responding really intensive to most substances. Only downers don't seem to work well on me. The few times I got an anesthesia they needed multiple doses to get me to pass out. I don't get help from Ibu below 1000mg and many painkillers do nothing at all for me.

Stimulances work extremely well the first times but my tolerance to them is built really fast to an extreme extent.

The sides of Yohimbine are totally unbearable.

The old Erase Pro got me really heavy pain but even Intimidate SRT is noticeable in my joints and DAA and Anabeta got my gyno to grow a little more (got it from puberty).

Epi raised my blood pressure to an extent where I got nosebleeds mutliple times a day. It also caused some rebound Gyno (flaring up) despite the use of Tamox and 6-Bromo and not going higher than 20mg (well, two days were at 30mg due to me using it as additional pre workout dose XD ).


Interestingly both my mom and dad have really high bloodpressure and two of my grandparents too while one has severe problems with really low bloodpressure. The fourth beeing dead too long for me to remember such a thing.

Maybe I respond better to some things as I got raised with most of my food beeing from organic farming and almost only homeopathic treatment, wich cured a chronic bronchitis , until I was around twelve.

Well I guess I got a little OT...

I plan on running GW in my next cycle to try if it helps at this point.

 

[chedapalooza]

That is low pressure (under 100/60). Cardarine can low you pressure a lot...usually mine is 120/70,with cardarine 110/60

I need to get on this ASAP.. EC and stress levels are giving me some nasty headaches

 

[pyrobatt]

After doing some more research on mk677. ...I'm rather interested . Anyone take with sucess?

 

[T-Bone]

After doing some more research on mk677. ...I'm rather interested . Anyone take with success?

I've been slightly interested this as well. I take medication for sleep though, so I'd think mk677 would be out for me.

 

[pyrobatt]

I've been slightly interested this as well. I take medication for sleep though, so I'd think mk677 would be out for me.

I was thinking joint repair,pct support and skin improvements. It's not going to blow you up or make you gain like the other sarms but it still can be useful.

 

[T-Bone]

I was thinking joint repair,pct support and skin improvements. It's not going to blow you up or make you gain like the other sarms but it still can be useful.

Yeah it definitely sounds like good stuff.

 

[warpyfunch]

After doing some more research on mk677. ...I'm rather interested . Anyone take with sucess?

I'm on it right now, two weeks in. Sleep is great, feel refreshed everyday, and it seems to be helping with my tennis elbow. Water retention is for real. At one point my wedding ring no longer fit, until I started taking a mild herbal diuretic.

 

[chedapalooza]

I'm on it right now, two weeks in. Sleep is great, feel refreshed everyday, and it seems to be helping with my tennis elbow. Water retention is for real. At one point my wedding ring no longer fit, until I started taking a mild herbal diuretic.

You getting water retention anywhere else?

 

[warpyfunch]

You getting water retention anywhere else?

Yea, midsection too. I'm taking NOW Foods "Water Out" which seems to keep it under control.

 

[chedapalooza]

Yea, midsection too. I'm taking NOW Foods "Water Out" which seems to keep it under control.

Wonderful. Always a problem area for me. But screw it Bc my joints are more important lol. Evomuse makes a great herbal diuretic, as does axis it's called Xtract.

 

[kbxblaze]

Question: what should the Ai dosing protocol be for arimidex and aromasin for these particular sarm cycles? And should i follow the AI dosage during cycle and throughout pct? I just need to clear this up, appreciate if anyone can help

 

[chedapalooza]

Question: what should the Ai dosing protocol be for arimidex and aromasin for these particular sarm cycles? And should i follow the AI dosage during cycle and throughout pct? I just need to clear this up, appreciate if anyone can help

For which sarm? MK and GW don't require them

 

[Joedoubledose]

Only thing you would possibly need an AI for would be osta possibly LGD and arimistane would work fine , these compounds don't aromatize but osta has been known to raise estrogen . No need for such a thing AI's in my opinion .